The gunman who yesterday shot up a Tennessee church that embraced gays and other liberal causes left behind a long letter fuming that he couldn’t find a job and expressing a profound ‘hatred for the liberal movement,’ police said today.
Jim D. Adkisson, 58, ranted that ‘liberals and gays’ taking jobs had prevented him from finding work. He wrote that he expected to keep shooting parishioners until the police showed up and killed him, Knoxville, Tenn., Police Chief Sterling Owen told a news conference.”
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Cue right wing moron claiming that massacre could have been stopped if somebody had a gun in church in 3…2…1…
Damn, I’ll just bet certain members of the conservative set were hoping he was a godless secularist shooting up a church. Instead he was a right-wing gun nut going after one of the most liberal and inclusive religious communities in America. In the middle of a play. Performed by children.
I’m sure that this bears absolutely no connection to any right-wing pundit or public figure who has ever in passing made “a harmless little joke” about killing liberals. Not at all.
Cue right wing moron claiming that massacre was actually the work of a muslim in 3…2…1…
I’m standing by for the “attack on Christianity” blogposts…
…waiting…
Oh, this was a liberal congregation? Well, nevermind!
Cue right-wing moron claiming that them Unitarians don’t count because they’re not a “Bible-believin’” church…
Oh wait…
——
So the U U church isnt’ Christian. Wonder why he chose that one.
—–
What a shiite-load of unadulterated B.S.
From what I’ve heard, they’re HEAVY on the secular, and VERY light to none existent on the “religious”.
In other words, they are a gaggle of left-wing nut cases and turds who pass themselves off as a “religion”, and for what reason?
Perhaps for the tax exempt status required to have the extra money to perform such left-wing, un-American stunts as establishing local chapters of the ACLU, and demonstrating against the former “School of the Americas” run by our U.S. Army.
——-
I think the gunman was trying to give them oneness with a bullet, after all , it wasnt the gunman’s fault,the gun’s fault or the bullets fault, it was just a vehicle for which they could obtain oneness with lol
——
I wonder what kind of weapon he used? He’s up against a building full of unarmed people, and kills one and injures eight? He is either a lousy shot or he was using something slightly more powerful than a BB gun.
——-
here in Nashville, the Unitarian church in Green Hills is Carpet on the Menu central
and not the Portia de Rossi/Tia Tequila variety….more the “I do my toenails with a belt sander” type
————
Sure as hell hope they don’t tell us he is registered on FreeRepublic. That’s ALL we need right now.
CNN.com still has it on their front page that he was angry because he couldn’t get a job. They mentioned in the article that he hated liberals, but haven’t found their way yet to putting that anywhere in the headline.
Cue left wing moron claiming this is the fault of conservative pundits, conservative talk radio, conservative ANYTHING.
3…2…1…
Or cue left wingers saying this is the fault of people having “such easy access to firearms.”
3…2…1…
Done.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/28/10745/5015/230/558105
In the same thread no less. That took about ten seconds.
Sure as hell hope they don’t tell us he is registered on FreeRepublic. That’s ALL we need right now.
So, not only callous, but self-important as well. Unless Adkisson spent days upon days posting about his plan to shoot up the liberals and gays, I doubt the word “FreeRepublic” makes it on the major news networks even if he were a registered user.
Well-countered, Jay. I look forward to the long list of stories about liberals who specifically targeted a church for its right-wing politics and then destroyed it with a car or home appliance (which are JUST AS DANGEROUS as guns, but we don’t feel a need to regulate the hell out of them!!!)
Jay..
that was classic.
took all of 10 seconds.
LMAO! They’re so predictable.
Spider - of course you’re correct, but what do you think are the odds that Bill O’Reilly will highlight these comments as examples of a “right-wing hate site” equivalent to the Nazi Party and the Klan?
Because I’m thinking they’re somewhere between zero and none.
Cue left- or right-wingers not looking to use this tragedy as an excuse to make simplistic partisan jabs at the other side.
1,000,000… 999,999… 999,998…
Sean, that would be a nice change. It would be better just to call this guy what he is: a killer and a terrorist.
But that’s just not as much fun as blaming it on Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and the NRA.
FreeRepublic = Republican Base
LMAO! They’re so predictable.
How wonderful that you and your Republican ilk find this to be so funny.
I’m not “blaming it all.”
It would be nice, however, if you were willing to admit that the stream of so-called off-the-cuff remarks about “liberal hunting licenses” do bear some weight in things like this happening, instead of simply saying This Madman Was Insane and acting as if that’s the end-all and be-all of the situation.
I misquoted you. You didn’t say “all,” although I did feel that was an implication.
Sean, that would be a nice change. It would be better just to call this guy what he is: a killer and a terrorist.
Like Eric Rudolph? I wonder why Dear Leader hasn’t noted his particular brand of home grown terrorist, or looked into punishing anyone who aided or abetted the evil doer.
But that’s just not as much fun as blaming it on Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and the NRA.
Right, because they have zero influence whatsoever.
Bill O’Reilly isn’t in the same category as Coulter or Limbaugh. That’s just stupid.
“But that’s just not as much fun as blaming it on Bill O’Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and the NRA”
I don’t blame it on the NRA, since they don’t have a history of “joking” about killing liberals like your heroes O’Reilly, Limbaugh, and Coulter.
The NRA as a group does not, but the NRA as a group has held up Ted Nugent as a spokesperson…a man who once screamed onstage that Barack Obama should “suck on my machine gun.”
…a man who once screamed onstage that Barack Obama should “suck on my machine gun.”
Was it Barack? Or Hillary?
Bill O’Reilly isn’t in the same category as Coulter or Limbaugh.
You mean Limbaugh and Coulter do things worse than inviting terrorists to blow up San Fransisco, equating Netroots Nation with the KKK, and calling Media Matters a bunch of nazis?
Wow, they’re even worse than I thought.
Decked out in full-on camouflage hunting gear, Nugent wielded two machine guns while raging, “Obama, he’s a piece of shit. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary,” he continued. “You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless bitch.”
Giving it to them, if you will, with both barrels.
Of course, not every gun enthusiast is as nutty as the Nuge. But nuts like the Nuge remain in the public eye with the support or complacency of gun enthusiasts.
Yeesh.
I hate to ask, but what’s his audience like?
I’m sure the families of the victims acn take comfort in the “just kidding,” {wink} when Coulter, Teh Nuge, et al get called on what they said.
Thanks again, Republicans. Heckofa job!
It would be nice, however, if you were willing to admit that the stream of so-called off-the-cuff remarks about “liberal hunting licenses” do bear some weight in things like this happening,
I’m not going to admit it, because it’s simply not true. Have you ever read, watched or listened to anything that made got you upset, even mad or angry? I’m sure the answer to those questions is yes. At some point it happens to everybody. Did you however, decide to load up a gun and take it somewhere and start shooting? It’s a safe bet to say no correct? The same goes for me and millions upon millions of other people in this country.
Sorry, but I just get tired of this nonsense. 300 million people in this country and one angry dirtbag from Tennessee takes it upon himself to direct his anger at the Unitarian church by shooting attendees, and suddenly we’re supposed to accept the culpability of conservative media personalities?
A) Media Matters is a dishonest operation that will stop at nothing to smear those they ideologically oppose
B) You obviously waste too much of your time MM if you don’t realize it.
C) A lot of the “netroots” people you’re talking about can always be counted on to say the most hateful, vile, and despicable things on the web. From most recently BOB NOVAK, then to Tony Snow, and pretty much anyone they oppose politically, it’s not hard to find “happy campers” on kos, huffpo, DU and the like.
D) YOu are no better than MM, because you do the same thing, Stinker in a Basement. You will intentionally take things out of context in order to smear those that disagree with you. So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that (gasp) you don’t understand that left-wing activists are far more violent, fascist, and intolerant that right-wingers are. Can you name the last time a left-winger was shouted down on a campus? Really…..let me know. Seems to be a fairly regular thing for conservatives? Are you ok with that? What are so many on the left afraid of free speech on campuses?
Respond now, Stinker in a Basement.
Jay, I never said that the shoot-liberals-dead-haha-kidding folks caused “millions upon millions” of people to take up arms and start shooting. That would be an absurd statement, which is why I didn’t make it.
What you want to say, however, is that they bear no culpability at all, of any kind, for what their words might say to even a tenth of one-percent of disturbed individuals.
Adkisson seemed to believe that gays and liberals took away his job. You seem to believe that this attitude happened in a vacuum, and that the right-wing media that more or less perpetuates the same sort of accusations had nothing to do with it.
If that’s the case, then any Muslim mullah or imam who extorts his followers to “kill the infidel” bears any responsibility for suicide bombings unless they directly planned them. Hutu Power Media deserves no blame for inciting people to slaughter the Tutsis unless the commentators took up machetes themselves.
OMG!
Please don’t tell me you’re blaming this nut shooting a bunch of people on Ted Nugent!!!!
Unfreakingbelievable.
Cat scratch fever is a good song.
I’m wondering why the so many of you see fit to link this nut to a movement so quickly, yet when islamic radicals blow shit up on a daily basis, have tens of millions of sympathizers, tens if not hundreds of millions more that tolerate them, and god knows how many that are actively involved in their cause, it’s “islamophobic” to point it out, and even worse for us to do something about it?
So do we now have permission from all of you ever-tolerant and enlightened libs to be concerned with islamic fascists? Or is broad generalization only permitted when it’s a white kid shooting up a school or a white guy attacking libs.
Marxist hypocrites respond right now.
J Mccann needs a hug.
How much does someone have to truly loathe themselves to so routinely beg for abuse? The constant stream of ditto head nonsense, so easily shredded with only a casual web search followed by some of the most intense projection this side of an IMAX are pretty indiciative of a seriously broken individual. Cognitive dissonance is driving the wingers insane.
Bob Novak, all in caps, seriously?
Straw man, j mcann. “Islamophobia” isn’t about pointing out the realities of the Islamic world, it’s about ballooning those realities into fearmongering.
Your stats are an example. “tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions” of those who tolerate and sympathize with terrorism, you say? Have you actually met a Muslim in your life or are you just too afraid of their tails, horns, and cloven feet?
And no, I’m not “blaming” Nugent for Adkisson. I’m blaming Nuge for being part of a culture that thinks it’s the height of comedy to talk about targeting people for murder just because you disagree with their politics.
Cognitive dissonance should be driving you wild too. After all, you blatently ignore the problem with islamic fascists, refuse to see that there is a huge problem withing a segment of that faith, yet when ONE random nut shoots up a church, it’s proof of a more nefarious and evil “right-wing network.”
Hypocrites.
Yeah……nothing to be concerned about….
only 91 million support jihad against the west, or basically, it’d be like the whole country of Germany was filled with violent, insane muslims that want to rule the world. This doesn’t even count sympathizers or those that will tolerate their garbage.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/020117.php
Many more where that came from. Just ask if you need more links. Got hundreds of them.
Jay: Yes. Just like Ward Churchill speaks for all Democrats, liberals, & progressives.
Jay, I never said that the shoot-liberals-dead-haha-kidding folks caused “millions upon millions” of people to take up arms and start shooting.
You misread. I said millions and millions listen to or watch these kinds of things being said and don’t start shooting people.
What you want to say, however, is that they bear no culpability at all, of any kind, for what their words might say to even a tenth of one-percent of disturbed individuals.
No, what I said is that they bear no culpability at all of any kind for the actions of that tenth of one percent of disturbed individuals.
Adkisson seemed to believe that gays and liberals took away his job. You seem to believe that this attitude happened in a vacuum, and that the right-wing media that more or less perpetuates the same sort of accusations had nothing to do with it.
No that isn’t true. If he wants to believe that gays and liberals took away his job and he thinks its so because he heard it from Rush Limbaugh, fine. But still, that has nothing to do with is decision to start shooting people.
If that’s the case, then any Muslim mullah or imam who extorts his followers to “kill the infidel” bears any responsibility for suicide bombings unless they directly planned them. Hutu Power Media deserves no blame for inciting people to slaughter the Tutsis unless the commentators took up machetes themselves.
Apples and oranges. It’s not even worth discussion this example because it is so far off base.
YOu are no better than MM, because you do the same thing, Stinker in a Basement. You will intentionally take things out of context in order to smear those that disagree with you.
You are mistaken.
Is today pudding day or Jell-o day for you mccann?
Kinda hate to say it but I’m with Jay on this one. If this guy thought what he thought because of O’Reilly, Coulter, whathaveyou, that’s as may be, and only somewhat remarkable that he let his worldview be dominated by such people. It’s a different thing to think that way and then to actually kill as a result.
It seems to me akin to blaming violent video games for school shootings, which is to say that yes, many games to revel in their own glorification of it, but for someone to decide “thats the life for me!” and go killing people or whatever already has some sort of deep psychosis at play there, deeper and darker shit than “Grand Theft Coulter made me do it” or whatever, even if that ends up the given reason.
On a sidenote, does anyone know how to write some kind of GreaseMonkey script that just blocks out everything mccann says? He’s kinda pathetic with his “Respond Immediately, Marxists!” shtick, and even when he tries to suck up to people “Brilliant Comment, duh! You’re so wise and handsome, Jay!” they tend to ignore him anyway. Can we not just let ourselves be rid of him as we try to talk shit out reasonably?
Ah. I see the little lefty fascists don’t like being smashed over the head with a heavy dose of cognitive dissonance.
More self-flattery, mccann?
Ah. I see the little lefty fascists
McCann, I know you use ‘fascist’ and ‘marxist’ as synonyms for ‘eeeee-vil and librul,’ but let me help you out.
left-wing - marxist
right-wing - fascist
At the extreme ends of the political spectrum, their behavior is somewhat similar (secret police, extremely poor human rights records, etc., etc.). But that does not erase the distinction.
If you need any more help, I have some books I could loan you.
Um…..no.
A fascist can be right or left.
Hitler and Mussolini (sp?) are both examples of left-wing fascists.
“Adkisson”?
Another member of the “Von Erich” wrestling family snaps? (Their real last name was “Adkisson”.)
Condolences to the victims and their families.
I read elsewhere that the shooter was on food-stamps, and was about to lose them. Which makes me think — huh? If he was such a committed anti-librul warrior and all, why the hell was he on public assistance?
I dunno. There’s a lot of rage out there, and it’s only going to get worse as our economy and deficit continue down into the global shitter. The Hannities and Limbaughs of the world are only out whip up anger and make a buck for themselves, and they don’t give a fuck about “collateral” incidents like this one.
Stuff like this is sad, but I expect more of it in the next few years as people wake up and realize what an empty bill of goods the Republican party sold them after 9/11.
And a Bismark is an example of a cream-filled doughnut.
Do you have a point?
True, it is associated more with the right, and wrongly so, and there are plenty of left-wing dictators throughout history. In fact….most of them have been. Chavez in Venezuala fits the bill too…both of them. Marxist (I believe Che and Karl are two of his heroes) and fascist, because of the control he has over anyone and everything.
You’re ignorance is astonishing. You strike me as someone that is very young and naive.
Fascism and Marxism are completely different things. Granted, there have been excesses and horrible people who’ve come to power in both forms, but please leave political discourse to the adults here j mccann. Hitler rose to power as an anti-socialist. Seriously. Go read some books about it. Part of his popularity with the fascists came from the fact that he was purging German Communists.
Moron who never took a history class, respond!
Hitler isn’t really talking to you through your television, mccann. It’s all in your head.
The Hannities and Limbaughs of the world are only out whip up anger and make a buck for themselves, and they don’t give a fuck about “collateral” incidents like this one.
And pray tell, why should they give a fuck more or less than anybody else?
They have a right to say what they want, but they have a responsibility to realize that their words can lead to twisted actions like this one.
why should they give a fuck more or less than anybody else?
Generally, they shouldn’t care either more or less. The problem is that they don’t seem to care at all.
Man…
You’re really blaming this on Hannity and Limbaugh.
Ridiculous.
Stinker in a basement…
WTF are you on about again?
Go take your meds or something.
Jaim: Stuff like this is sad, but I expect more of it in the next few years as people wake up and realize what an empty bill of goods the Republican party sold them after 9/11.
If only they would then target the conservatives and shoot people in right-wing churches.
(I can say that, right? I don’t have to take responsibility for anything my words may influence someone to do, right?)
And pray tell, why should they give a fuck more or less than anybody else?
“Deliver Us from Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism”
That’s the title of a book with Hannity listed as the author. That’s right, on the cover, in its title, Hannity’s book labels Liberalism to be evil, equating it with Terrorism (how timely!) and Despotism. But you’re right, he shouldn’t care any more or less.
Ed, you don’t get out much do you?
Quiet, mccann. We’re talking.
And a Bismark is an example of a cream-filled doughnut.
Do you have a point?
Don’t ask me why but I have google alerts set for doughnut and donuts. (Okay, it’s because I need to monitor donut giveaways in my neighborhood.) (And by monitor, I mean show up early.)
Anyway, googlefight assures me that the correct spelling is “donut” by almost 2 1/2 to 1: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=donut&word2=doughnut
Oh yeah, um, it’s a “Bismarck” too, but I kind of prefer the buttermilk bars, thanks for asking.
Sorry for the false alarm, jerry.
Ed, you don’t get out much do you?
When right wingers are found acting like right wingers, some right wingers, like Jay, like to change the subject. Will it work this time?
Sorry for the false alarm, jerry.
Tell it to my blood sugar, Mister!
Idiot can’t even spell donut.
And since when do liberals care if anyone shoots up a CHURCH? Aren’t those people your enemies…..prayin and shit all the time??
If anything, they guy’s probably a plant from Huffpo trying to make conservatives look bad.
They have a right to say what they want, but they have a responsibility to realize that their words can lead to twisted actions like this one.
Really? Perhaps you can point me to the chapter in Hannity’s book where he implores people to go out and shoot people at a Unitarian Church?
I’m sure Media Matters has all the audio of Rush Limbaugh telling his listeners to do the same.
“Aren’t those people your enemies…..prayin and shit all the time??”
No. Now hush.
Like we haven’t heard people on this site rail against those “evil, religious right folks” before.
Gimme a break. And quit acting like you care about anyone that goes to church getting shot. This story probably made some people, as sick as it sounds, slightly amused.
This story probably made some people, as sick as it sounds, slightly amused.
Well, if you keep quiet, no one will know how messed up you are. Hush, I said.
If anything, they guy’s probably a plant from Huffpo trying to make conservatives look bad.
As if they needed any help.
Stinker in a basement….
Look into prozac.
mccann, look over there! Marxists!
Look into prozac.
Is that a personal endorsement, mccann?
I hope it’s not a personal endorsement, Quaker. Because his ain’t working.
Jay - Get down off your fucking high horse and explain to me how I gave you “apples and oranges.” Certain mullahs and Hutu Power media used inflammatory rhetoric demonizing their political/religious/racial opponents as a means of getting their audience to act out and eliminate those opponents.
Hannity and Savage do the same thing at a lower intensity, rarely crossing the line that calls for outright mass executions and when they do (ie, O’Reilly saying that terrorists should attack San Francisco) it’s couched in enough passive voice so as not to sound like the Matthew Hales of the world. But the message is the same: Liberals Are Not Like You. Liberals Are Dangerous. Liberals Must Be
DestroyedDefeated.If anything, I gave you Fuji and Red Delicious apples.
Spider, your comparison is absurd because people like Osama bin Laden are like ‘generals’ in a sense and when he says, “Kill infidels” the people in question are following orders. They preach over and over again the notion that killing infidels is not only something they are required to do according to the Koran, but promise they will be rewarded for doing so. They have beaten into their heads from the time they’re young boys that infidels, especially of the American variety deserving of death.
Now, this is what O’Reilly said:
Hey, you know, if you want to ban military recruiting, fine, but I’m not going to give you another nickel of federal money. You know, if I’m the president of the United States, I walk right into Union Square, I set up my little presidential podium, and I say, “Listen, citizens of San Francisco, if you vote against military recruiting, you’re not going to get another nickel in federal funds. Fine. You want to be your own country? Go right ahead.”
And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we’re not going to do anything about it. We’re going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.
Now, this is over the top nonsense on the part of O’Reilly, but for you to try to even get this anywhere near what fanatical Muslims direct young people to do is…well…I’ll quote Jules Winfield: “It ain’t the same fucking ball park. It ain’t the same league. It ain’t even the same fucking sport!”
You game me Red Delicious Apples and a dried up piece of horseshit.
Anybody who attempts to even get close to saying that anything Hannity, Limbaugh or O’Reilly has said or written is somehow in any way shape or form responsible for what happened at the church is engaging in some dangerous and completely irrational thinking. Like Rex said above, you sound like the same people who blame violent movies (Like Pulp Fiction for instance), video games and heavy metal music for the violent actions of teenagers.
I don’t know whether there’s any point in writing this, since at this point it’s pretty clear the mccann is here just to hear himself talk, but I’ll give it a try:
A lot of the “netroots” people you’re talking about can always be counted on to say the most hateful, vile, and despicable things on the web. From most recently BOB NOVAK, then to Tony Snow, and pretty much anyone they oppose politically, it’s not hard to find “happy campers” on kos, huffpo, DU and the like.
Really, the most hateful? Well mccann, I urge you to scroll back upthread a few pages and take a look at the comments I reproduced from Free Republic this morning. What a collection of Little Mary Sunshines they are, eh?
So I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that (gasp) you don’t understand that left-wing activists are far more violent, fascist, and intolerant that right-wingers are.
I know y’all are really upset about all the terrible shoutings you get, but can you tell me when was the last time any right-wingers were murdered in this country by those on the left? Truth is most all of the systematic state-endorsed murder and violence in this nation has always been propagated against the left by the right. From the murder of civil rights leaders and union organizers, to brutality against gays and peace protesters, the collective “right” in the United States has a very long history of violence. Now I know it gets you little babies all upset when the mean liberals throw a pie at Ann Coulter and all, but I’d take a pie over a noose or a .38 in the head any day.
And quit acting like you care about anyone that goes to church getting shot. This story probably made some people, as sick as it sounds, slightly amused.
Fuck you mccann. Seriously. With a rusty razor encrusted dildo. Followed by a nice hot Clorox enema.
The church in question was Unitarian Universalist. Do you even have an idea what that is? I have no doubt if you ever read what the church was about you, like most of the Freeper troglodytes I quoted earlier, would regard it as a “fake” church deserving what they got because they aren’t the slick Bible-thumping fundamentalist bozos the TV has taught us that “good Xtians” are supposed to be. Most like you think of UU’s as little better than pagans or atheists, despite the fact that some of our founding fathers and earliest presidents were UUs and are buried in UU cemeteries.
the collective “right” in the United States has a very long history of violence.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
Rheinhard wins Stupidest Shit Written award for the day.
And that’s the end of this one for me. I’m not going to waste more seconds of my life trying to reason with idiots who think Sean Hannity is in part, responsible for that man did over the weekend.
Like Rex said above, you sound like the same people who blame violent movies (Like Pulp Fiction for instance), video games and heavy metal music for the violent actions of teenagers.
It’s dishonest to say I’m giving you apples and oranges and then for you and Rex to come back with the violent video game canard.
Violent video games/art are about doing things in a fictional setting; the people affected to do things in real life are those who can’t discern the difference between fiction and reality.
Dehumanizing, separatist rhetoric against real people is what I’m getting at. Years and years of people being told that my sociopolitical beliefs are so dangerous that, at the very least, we shouldn’t lift a finger to stop people like me from being killed. After all, we would deserve it.
By the by, you’ll notice I avoided bringing up OBL in the first place, because I agree that he’s on a different level…he did in fact plan attacks and work to carry them out. I’m talking about those who have otherwise no criminal activity on their record–they just foment their power by suggesting that certain groups are worthy of marginalization at least, elimination at most.
Metaphorically, it’s as though everybody is issued an empty rifle and the pundits I’m referring to are handing out bullets. “Yes,” you’ll say, “but the people with the rifles chose to load the bullets into the gun, chose to pull the trigger. Most people are smart and stable enough to put the shells in a drawer and the rifle on the mantle and the ones who chose to go on a rampage are just sick killers.”
And you wouldn’t be wrong. But I’m suggesting that maybe certain pundits could have chosen not to hand out those bullets.
Jay - superb job ignoring pretty much everything I wrote! Did I even once mention Hannity in my comment? Thought not. I did mention Ann Coulter, but only in the context of comparing her getting hit by the evil liberal speech suppressing cream pies to the long and undeniable history of violence against the left in this country. I nowhere address the question of the extent to which the relentless branding of liberals as “traitors”, “Terrorist lovers”, “America haters” etc. by your rhetorical heroes is causative of this particular nutjob shooting up a UU church filled with children presenting a play. I was specifically responding to mccann’s fatuous assertion that “left-wing activists are far more violent, fascist, and intolerant that right-wingers are.“
Look, this is a classic left/right divide.
The left wing whackos talk up a storm, hurl ad hominem invective and generally sit around places like Kos and circle-jerk themselves off on fantasies of destroying republicans.
Right wing whackos, set a plan, and execute it to tremendous effect.
Really it is a wonderful microcosm of the real world, just played out by the mentally disturbed. In short:
The leftists talk about it, the conservatives “get’er done”
Years and years of people being told that my sociopolitical beliefs are so dangerous that, at the very least, we shouldn’t lift a finger to stop people like me from being killed. After all, we would deserve it.
From who? Where is this language served up that people have been saying for “years and years” that you deserve to be killed because of your beliefs? Sorry dude, but you’re getting extremely melodramatic.
I’m talking about those who have otherwise no criminal activity on their record–they just foment their power by suggesting that certain groups are worthy of marginalization at least, elimination at most.
It’s still not an apt comparison. You have that sole example from O’Reilly. If he were on the air whether it was his radio show or television show and in books, every day telling people (especially impressionable young men) to commit acts of terrorism against the city of San Francisco. That it was their duty to do so and that they would gain reward in the afterlife for doing so, and somebody actually did it, then your comparison would be valid. In this case, it isn’t. Not with O’Reilly, not with Hannity, and not with Limbaugh. Hell, it isn’t even comparable to Michael Savage, repulsive as I find him.
This is nothing more than a convenient excuse for people on the left to rail about pundits and personalities from the right. If somebody thinks that O’Reilly or Michael Savage is truly in part responsible for this crime, then they should attempt to get charges file against them. Otherwise, the chorus of these voices saying louder and louder that they are responsible is doing nothing but attempting to put a chilling effect on free speech.
“We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors.”
- Ann Coulter, 2002 speech before the CPAC
Now you have two quotes, and I can search for others…and before you start, I don’t care if you think Ann Coulter is not representative of conservatives. She’s hardly living in the margins of the right-wing.
I can search for more if you need them. These quotes don’t speak to everybody as a call to action, but they do speak to somebody. They spoke to Jim Adkisson. The rewards aren’t about getting something in the afterlife, they’re about getting something RIGHT NOW–that is, an America where you don’t have to deal with things like homosexuals.
I keep saying, and you keep inflating, that I think the right-wing blowhards are a low-level version of the mullahs and the RLM, and that they rarely cross the same line, so no, I’m not looking for criminal charges against Savage, et al. I’m looking for one of them to pause for a second and ask themselves if their rhetoric, which regularly trafficks in the notion that liberals are an insidious evil who must be defeated (that is, liberals are America’s Great Satan), might not be adding anything positive to the world and might potentially influence those who are already mentally disturbed. And you want to tell them, “Don’t worry about it. There’s no way your hatred could possibly have inspired somebody else’s hatred.”
I’m asking you, Jay, what value this sort of speech has, which is a debate we’re still having in terms of things like obscenity laws.
Shorter JT: I abhor right-wing radio bigotry. Let me tell you about those evil Muslims.
These quotes don’t speak to everybody as a call to action, but they do speak to somebody. They spoke to Jim Adkisson. The rewards aren’t about getting something in the afterlife, they’re about getting something RIGHT NOW–that is, an America where you don’t have to deal with things like homosexuals.
Except Jim Adkisson expected to die in a hail of gunfire from the police.
I’m looking for one of them to pause for a second and ask themselves if their rhetoric, which regularly trafficks in the notion that liberals are an insidious evil who must be defeated (that is, liberals are America’s Great Satan), might not be adding anything positive to the world and might potentially influence those who are already mentally disturbed.
Spider, with all due respect, you’re couching things in more polite terms, but at the same time you’re still emitting that chilling effect. Unless somebody is saying, “Go and kill….” then a person’s thoughts should not be shackled (no matter how repugnant) because of the off chance that some person (out of millions), who happened to read something they wrote is going to go berserk and start shooting. Do we start yanking copies of ‘The Catcher In The Rye’ off bookshelves? After all, John Hinckley Jr., Mark David Chapman and Robert John Bardo were all obsessed with the book. Two committed murder and another attempted to commit murder. Of course, millions of others have read it as well (including me) and I just never got the urge to take somebody out.
Do you see what I’m getting at?
Does such rhetoric have value? It depends on who you ask because it is subjective. For me, the answer is no. It’s why I don’t read such books or watch cable news shows.
Meanwhile, the left (especially in the blogosphere) gets energized by such opportunities to demonize conservatives as a whole and use it as a backdoor to muzzle free speech.
“Right wing whackos, set a plan, and execute it to tremendous effect.
Really it is a wonderful microcosm of the real world, just played out by the mentally disturbed. In short:
The leftists talk about it, the conservatives “get’er done””
Shorter duh: Left wing whackos talk about killing, right wing whackos are unhinged enough to actually DO it. Yea for us!
Look, dammit, I’m not talking about shackling Savage in any way other than hoping he can’t find somebody willing to pay him to spout his nonsense. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING CRIMINAL CHARGES OR CENSORSHIP. I am suggesting that these people are behaving irresponsibly, that their words have power and meaning, and that it would be great if they could consider the ways that their rhetoric could be inflammatory on a level beyond their basic schoolyard mentality.
But they won’t, and it’s in part because you and others hold them completely blameless for their words. They’re just speaking! It’s not their fault if people actually listen!
I am suggesting that these people are behaving irresponsibly, that their words have power and meaning, and that it would be great if they could consider the ways that their rhetoric could be inflammatory on a level beyond their basic schoolyard mentality.
In other words: “Jim Adkisson killed people because of what you wrote or said and you should consider that the next time you write or say something.”
You’re basically arguing the same thing this person is:
If they found something I wrote in a killer’s home, I’d stop what I was doing and begin some serious self-reflection. I’d write about it, consider my errors, and try to make amends. Wouldn’t you? Not that censorship isn’t the answer. Not every reprehensible act can be legislated away. Sometimes the most effective way to change people is to hold them accountable. That includes not only Fox News, in this case, but also CNN — who recently gave the anchor chair to hate-speaker Glenn Beck.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/a-murderers-bookshelf-han_b_115497.html
But they won’t, and it’s in part because you and others hold them completely blameless for their words.
I hold them completely blameless for the crimes committed by Jim D. Adkisson.
But they won’t, and it’s in part because you and others hold them completely blameless for their words.
I’d be curious to know the legal distinction between legal comments (Coulter’s at CPAC, etc.) and conspiracy to commit, i.e. what’s protected and what’s a crime. My first instinct is that this thread is a little thought-police, but clearly one has to draw the line somewhere.
Jay’s right. I mean, just last week a librul high on lattes watched every Michael Moore film and then ran into a conservative church and shot eight people. Happens all the time. Just the opposite side of the coin of say, Timothy McVeigh.
Oh, wait. That’s right, we live on the planet Earth.
More to the point, the Savages and Hannities have a right to say what they wish. But the court of public opinion, so to speak, has a right to castigate these cretins for what they are — spiteful, biggoted little hate-mongers.
Thing is, they happen to sell lots of books. They are a reflection of the modern day Republican party. And there’s a reason why that party is sinking fast into the mud-pile of history.
Jay’s right. I mean, just last week a librul high on lattes watched every Michael Moore film and then ran into a conservative church and shot eight people. Happens all the time. Just the opposite side of the coin of say, Timothy McVeigh.
Welcome to the land of Stupidville, Jaim style.
But the court of public opinion, so to speak, has a right to castigate these cretins for what they are — spiteful, biggoted little hate-mongers.
Go right ahead. It still doesn’t mean they’re responsible for the actions of others.
It still doesn’t mean they’re responsible for the actions of others.
Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own actions. But that also means the people who stand on the sidelines and cheer them on bear the responsibility for doing that.
a killer and a terrorist.
I Told You So. The next terrorist attack in America would come from a conservative going after liberals. Who told him where to