Jesse Helms Died Today

There’s an amazing whitewash of his record in the official obits making the rounds.

70 Responses to “Jesse Helms Died Today”


  1. Gravatar Icon 1 Parthenon

    If memory serves he was the visual subject attached to one of my favorite Onion headlines - “Republicans, Dadaists Declare War on Art.”

    Regarding any whitewash of his record, it seems like that always happens. Liberal or conservative, the papers are probably going to gloss over the parts that made you look most stupid, irrational or intolerant. I don’t really mind. Anyone who cares enough is probably already sufficiently familiar with his record.

  2. Gravatar Icon 2 Dr. Monkey

    There’s no whitewash of his life on my blog. I’m glad the hateful racist homophobe is finally dead.

  3. Gravatar Icon 3 Parthenon

    *Having now clicked through Oliver’s links, I’m less convinced that this is run-of-the-mill whitewashing for a run-of-the-mill Republican. My goodness, this cat was a piece of work.*

  4. Gravatar Icon 4 Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

    Hell, even Sully was kicking dirt on his grave. The title of his post announcing Helms’ death: The End Of A Bigot.

  5. Gravatar Icon 5 daniel rotter

    “Hell, even Sully was kicking dirt on his grave.”

    Kind of ironic, since, with the exception of gay-rights related issues (and, yes, considering how passionately Sullivan cared and wrote about those issues, that is a notable exception), Sullivan probably agreed with Helms most of the time. Sullivan is largely a very conservative guy.

  6. Gravatar Icon 6 ed

    I heard he was “controversial.”

    I wonder what the SaveFarris, Jay, Jay Tea et al had to say about the 1990 NC Senate contest. Nah, I don’t really wonder.

  7. Gravatar Icon 7 Randy Brown

    Sam Francis and Strom Thurmond finally have their drinking partner back. Problem is, all the mint juleps in the universe won’t help them where they are now.

    Burn in hell forever, motherf–ker.

  8. Gravatar Icon 8 Vanessa

    The end of an era? I hope so.

  9. Gravatar Icon 9 NSangoma

    What did Bono tell him?

    “Christ only speaks about judgment once and it’s not about sex but about how we deal with the poor, and I quoted Matthew, ‘I was naked and you clothed me, I was hungry and you fed me.’ Jesse got very emotional, and the next day he brought in the reporters and publicly repented about Aids. I explained to him that AIDS was like the leprosy of the New Testament.”

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/07/judgment_and_jesse_helms.html
    `

  10. Gravatar Icon 10 daniel rotter

    “Sam Francis and Strom Thurmond finally have their drinking partner back.”

    Who’s Sam Francis?

  11. Gravatar Icon 11 Thad

    Apparently there’s whitewashing going on at Wikipedia, too; the “Controversies” anchor in your link isn’t there anymore.

    Someone more motivated than I am should probably be restoring it within the next few hours.

  12. Gravatar Icon 12 MrGreyGhost

    According to the righteous libs Helms was a hateful “bigot”, yet Robert Byrd, who was a leader in a terrorist organization that hates and kills Blacks, who denounced the entire Civil Rights movement and used the n-word as little as 7 years ago, continues to get a pass. Why? Oh yeah, Byrd’s a Democrat.

  13. Gravatar Icon 13 Bruce

    Byrd gets no pass from me. May both their names be blotted out of the Book of Life.

  14. Gravatar Icon 14 Bruce

    Rotter - Francis is an open unreconstructed racist whose views were too wingnuttish even for the arch-conservative Washington Times, which fired him from his position on its op-ed page.

  15. Gravatar Icon 15 mike in dc

    Byrd made several acts of contrition later in his Senate career. To my knowledge Helms did no such thing.

  16. Gravatar Icon 16 Jay Tea

    I dunno why ed thinks my opinion is so valuable, but here it is:

    Helms did quite a bit of good over the course of his Senate career. I believe he played a decent role in checking the expansionist policies of the Soviet Union, and helped us eventually defeat them.

    His staunch opposition to the United Nations was certainly well-justified.

    He was a budget hawk, and said “no” to a lot of stupid, wasteful programs.

    However, he did a hell of a lot more bad stuff.

    His bigotry and racial antagonism (such as the “singing Dixie in an elevator with Carol Moseley-Braun”) incident marked him as a contemptible, hateful, swine who won election and re-election by appealing to the basest elements of his constituency, and used his position of power and authority for his own petty grievances and prejudices.

    I regretted his retirement, as I would have preferred to see him defeated, rejected by his constituents, but I welcomed his departure nonetheless.

    In 1990, I had a lot of other things on my mind than a Senate election a thousand or so miles away. To this day, I tend not to get too interested in elections that I won’t be able to vote in. (Massachusetts being the obvious exception — considering that more and more Massachusetts people are moving here to NH, I feel I have a vested interest in how things go down there.)

    So Jesse Helms is dead. I’m not going to celebrate his death; I enjoyed his retirement, and at that point got it all out of my system. I reserve the enjoyment of someone’s death to someone I consider an enemy, or someone truly evil. (Or, often, both. I did my own happy dance when Saddam Hussein did his little air dance, and cheered when his sons also took the dirt nap. Timothy McVeigh also got similarly commemorated.)

    He was retired, he was out of power, he could do no more harm. I’m glad his passing was, apparently, peaceful. But I won’t miss him in the least.

    That answer our curiosity, ed?

    J.

  17. Gravatar Icon 17 Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle

    Mike in DC:
    And Byrd also backed Obama for President, a few days before the WV primary. To echo “Little Tommy Friedman’s words: Suck. On. That. Jesse.

    Also, Jesse can suck on this:

    http://justjared.buzznet.com/2008/07/04/halle-berry-coty/

    She looks, hot, hot, hot!!!

  18. Gravatar Icon 18 Randy Brown

    Oh - and you can add Lester Maddox to my little list.

    If you believe in this kind of stuff…EVERYBODY gets at least a shot at seeing St. Peter at the Gates. Only in Helms’ case, Peter was flanked by MLK, Thurgood Marshall, Medgar & Charles Evers - and Col. Stinkmeaner, who demonstrated how to break one’s foot off in a muthaf–ka’s ass as he kicked Helms all the way to perdition.

    And when Jesse finally arrived at his permanent home, he was shocked to find that Satan was, for him, a 300-pound black “welfare queen” with PMS and a damn bullwhip. As Richard Pryor/Mudbone would say. “PY-YOW!!”

  19. Gravatar Icon 19 Randy Brown

    Jay Tea said:

    Helms did quite a bit of good over the course of his Senate career.

    Sure. Right.

    Hitler created jobs. Mussolini made the trains run on time. And Saddam exported oil.

  20. Gravatar Icon 20 Jay Tea

    Randy:

    The Mussolini trains thing is a myth.

    Hitler was also responsible for the Autobahn and the Volkswagen Beetle.

    For a while. Saddam kept Iran in check.

    I’m also delighted all three are dead, and revel in the manner of their demises.

    Next point?

    I’m sorry, that’s not right.

    I’m still waiting for your first point.

    J.

  21. Gravatar Icon 21 Crusty Dem

    My wife asked me how he died, I told he they hadn’t released the official cause of death yet, but I assumed the event looked like Jesus’ ascension to heaven on rewind.

    Comparing Byrd with Helms is an interesting test. Byrd has acknowledged and attempted to repent for his bigotry, Helms never did. Hell, he even ran on it as recently as 1996 (his last senate run):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIyewCdXMzk

    I was in North Carolina in 1984 when he ran against Jim Hunt, which was pretty despicable, but nothing like 1990 and 1996. The race-baiting in 1984 was obvious, but never quite as crude as the ad above.

  22. Gravatar Icon 22 C.S.Strowbridge

    “Hitler was also responsible for … the Volkswagen Beetle.”

    No he wasn’t.

    Ferdinand Porsche designed the vehicle before Hitler got involved.

  23. Gravatar Icon 23 Sean D. Martin

    Crusty Dem: The race-baiting in 1984 was obvious, but never quite as crude as the ad above.

    I’m sure there must have been far more crude examples than that. I’m no fan of Helms by any stretch, but the point made by that particular ad (quotas are bad) isn’t a bad one.

    I can understand and support the idea that when two candidates are equally qualified the tie is decided in favor of the minority candidate. But to give the win to a less qualified candidate is objectionable. Despite the historic facts that may have led to them being less qualified.

  24. Gravatar Icon 24 Jay Tea

    Ferdinand Porsche designed A vehicle before Hitler commissioned his Kraftdurchfreudewagen, but he adapted that to Hitler’s specifications. Porche’s design would likely have gone nowhere without Hitler’s backing and the endorsement of the Third Reich.

    Why do you have this neurotic compulsion to disagree with me on everything, stroke?

    Never mind, I’d really rather not know the answer.

    J.

  25. Gravatar Icon 25 Carol

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Francis

    This is the Sam Francis that’s being referred to. Short life, and not short enough. And Randy, when you do some more reading, add Archibishop Romero and a lot of El Salvadorans, South Africans (opposition to ending Apartheid) and all of those gifted gay artists during the 80’s who passed away due to his opposition to condoms. Also google his involvement with Pinochet too while you are at it.

  26. Gravatar Icon 26 MacDaddy

    I posted about this guy’s hateful policies and mean-spiritedness over at daddyBstrong.blogspot.com. Here’s an example of the mean-spiritedness from a news service:

    “Soon after the Senate vote on the Confederate flag insignia, Sen. Jesse Helms (R.-N.C.) ran into Mosely-Braun in a Capitol elevator. Helms turned to his friend, Sen. Orrin Hatch (R.-Utah), and said, “Watch me make her cry. I’m going to make her cry. I’m going to sing ‘Dixie’ until she cries.” He then proceeded to sing the song about “the good life” during slavery to Mosely-Braun.
    – (Gannett News Service, 9/2/93; Time, 8/16/93).

    I don’t think Carol Mosley-Braun is crying over his death.

  27. Gravatar Icon 27 Crusty Dem

    Sean D, given that the bill mentioned in the ad (the Kennedy-Hawkins Civil Rights Act) didn’t call for “racial quotas” of any kind (even the nutty right-wing organizations couldn’t say worse than “it may pave the way for quotas”), and it was used against an African-American candidate, I’d say it was pretty damned racist. There’s no conceivable way the bill would’ve resulted in the situation described in the ad, it just plays on the fears of white people that they will be screwed by the system, but then, those people will feel that way independent of any set of facts.

  28. Gravatar Icon 28 ed

    Shorter Jay Tea: Harvey Gantt was a commie.

  29. Gravatar Icon 29 Crusty Dem

    BTW, using Jay Tea’s rationalization, Al Gore really did invent the internet.

  30. Gravatar Icon 30 Randy Brown

    Carole:

    Francis was ANTI-CAPITALIST and ANTI-CHRISTIAN as well as virulently racist? Jay-zus!

    You know that sucka was off the edge of the wingnuts’ flat earth if Pruden, d’Souza, AND Scaife all shit-canned his column!

  31. Gravatar Icon 31 Tyro

    Helms did quite a bit of good over the course of his Senate career.

    Jesse Helms failed at life. When he was called upon to be a good man, he wasn’t able to live up to the call. He lived a failure and fied a failure. As one can see from any number of his public statements, he hated Americans.

    We are expected to be good people in our lives. Helms failed, and he died a failure.

  32. Gravatar Icon 32 Amused Observer

    There is much self righteous indignation regarding the career and accomplishments of Jesse Helms. Since much of that indignation centers on a deliberate playing of racial politics in the 1990 N. Carolina Senate race and allegations that were made regarding The Kennedy Hawkins Civil Rights act. I wonder what the opinions of the self righteous are regarding the personal morality and character of Ted Kennedy and his life accomplishments?

    Personally I find it hard to find praise for Ted Kennedy and his accomplishments.

  33. Gravatar Icon 33 daniel rotter

    Thanks for the wikipedia link regarding this Sam Francis fellow, Carol. I see that some conservatives, like Pat Buchanan, and even a congressman, eulogized him after his death. This is despite the fact that he wrote a fairly recent (at the time of his death, anyway) article entitled “Capitalism the enemy.” Imagine the howls of outrage and mockery from at least some on the Right (including, probably, the same aforementioned people who gave tribute to Francis after he passed away) if a left-winger had written an article with the same title.

  34. Gravatar Icon 34 Mike

    I wonder what the opinions of the self righteous are regarding the personal morality and character of Ted Kennedy and his life accomplishments?

    Ted Kennedy isn’t a vicious, lying, evil racist and homophobe. Helms was. That’s his legacy.

    Personally I find it hard to find praise for Ted Kennedy and his accomplishments.

    That’s because you’re an ass.

  35. Gravatar Icon 35 Mike

    Oops. That should be:

    Personally I find it hard to find praise for Ted Kennedy and his accomplishments.

    That’s because you’re an ass.

  36. Gravatar Icon 36 Parthenon

    Went and read a few archived Francis articles out of curiosity… this cat made G. Gordon Liddy look like Abbie Hoffmann.

  37. Gravatar Icon 37 Amused Observer

    LOL Mike,
    No Ted is a lying alcoholic coward who left a girl to die after drunkenly driving his car into a pond. Rather than getting help he swam off the island and tried to pretend it didn’t happen. That’s his legacy.

    I find that much more disagreeable than a little racism or being antihomo. Funny you should fixate on a man being an ass, that homophobe thing must really personally offend you.

  38. Gravatar Icon 38 daniel rotter

    “…or being antihomo.”

    “Antihomo?” Real nice. Reminds me of the time that “Duke” Cunningham (rightfully) got a tongue lashing from his fellow Representatives after mentioning, on the House floor, no less, about how he opposed “homos in the military.”

  39. Gravatar Icon 39 Amused Observer

    excuse me, antihomosexual

  40. Gravatar Icon 40 aw

    LOL Mike,
    No Ted is a lying alcoholic coward who left a girl to die after drunkenly driving his car into a pond.

    Ted Kennedy drove (probably while drunk) and managed to kill his passenger.

    Rather than getting help he swam off the island and tried to pretend it didn’t happen. (SIC) That’s his legacy.

    His entire political career never happened. It just sank without a trace into the fever swamp of AO’s mind.

    I find that much more disagreeable than a little racism

    A LITTLE RACISM? Oh… wow.

    Um, are you aware of whose blog this is?

  41. Gravatar Icon 41 aw

    Why do you have this neurotic compulsion to disagree with me on everything, stroke?

    I don’t know. Why does JT have this neurotic compulsion to post comments on a blog he hates?

  42. Gravatar Icon 42 Zython

    Shorter AO: What Ted Kennedy did makes everything that Jesse Helms did morally acceptable. By that logic, it should be OK for me to rob a bank, since that still makes me better than Stalin.

  43. Gravatar Icon 43 daniel rotter

    “That’s his legacy.”

    Yeah, and Laura Bush’s legacy is not doing what one is supposed to do when one is driving and reaches a stop sign (you know, stop) and killing a man.

  44. Gravatar Icon 44 Amused Observer

    We could argue the finer points of his political career, a monument to wrongheaded liberalism, yet the fact remains as a man he is lower than low. No one can defend Helms’s racial politics, but playing the race card is routinely done in politics on both sides of the aisle by politicians black and white.

    Kennedy stands out amongst his peers. Not because he is an alcoholic boor but because he is a coward who killed an innocent girl. Not just killing her but being too much of a pussy to go for help when it could have mattered.

    This paragon of liberal virtue fled the scene, failing to summon help and swam off the island in an attempt to set up an alibi. Only the cool head of his cousin, who had been keeping him out of trouble his whole spoiled pampered life, made him go back the next day. Going back wearing a phoney neck brace in an attempt to gain sympathy.

    Helms stands charged with basically being impolite. Small potatoes compared to Kennedy. He would have had to participate in a lynching to reach the level of depravity that defines Ted Kennedy.

    It’s not the drunkenness, it’s not the driving accident, it’s the cowardice. It’s the abandonment of that innocent young girl, helplessly trapped in that car waiting and hoping for help while the only man who knew about it ran away because he was too scared to step up to the plate. That is Kennedy’s legacy

  45. Gravatar Icon 45 fafaroo

    “I find that much more disagreeable than a little racism or being antihomo.”

    Oh come on. Amused, you couldn’t care less about Mary Jo Kopechne as a person. What you find disagreeable are Kennedy’s politics and policies. Chappaquiddick is just a way to tear down and attack a lifetime commitment to progressive, liberal ideals. You use a single moment of cowardice and confusion to attack a lifetime of good works. That’s all Kopechne means to you. In this instance, you’ve gone even further, using Kopechne not simply to attack Kennedy but to prop up Jesse Helms, a man of such extreme moral cowardice and confusion that hate was an everyday part of his life. Helms was not simply “impolite.” His legacy is a lifetime of virulent, aggressive hate in the form of hurtful, destructive policies and politics. His hateful impacted thousands of lives, black and white.

    A man’s legacy may be marred by a single act, but a single act does not a legacy make. Kennedy’s legacy comes tragically blemished. Helm’s legacy is a blemish. Period.

  46. Gravatar Icon 46 Amused Observer

    Fafaroo,
    You know not of what you speak. Indeed I find Kennedy, his politics and his policies to be distasteful. Most liberal policies are well meaning but short sighted and an intrusion upon the freedoms and liberties that were the founding basis of this country.

    Part of my life has been spent in endeavors that are mildly dangerous. In such situations one must literally put his welfare and life in another man’s hands and work together to not only get the task done but to survive. That takes respect and trusting each other’s skills and commitment.

    We have devised a method of judging a man’s character we call the lifeboat test. What would this person do in an emergency? Like any test most people fit into the standard bell curve pattern, they will be modestly helpful or be a slight burden upon the group’s efforts. At the far ends will be those whose efforts greatly help or greatly hinder the safety and well being of the group.

    The common bonds of humanity compel us to bring along those who through no fault of their own just don’t have what it takes to really help the group survive. But there is no room in the boat for the very few who would cheat, hoard, and steal from the common pool of survival resources.

    I despise the true character of Ted Kennedy that was revealed when push came to shove for the first time in his spoiled pampered life. I despise the coward who left that young girl to die rather than face embarrassment.

    Knowing nothing of me you state that I care nothing for the girl he abandoned to die. I have a daughter about her age. I think about my daughter and how I would feel if she were used as a plaything and then callously discarded to die. I think about what her parents and family would feel and my blood boils.

    I am not using the example of Ted Kennedy’s incredible moral failings to prop up Jesse Helms; I am using his cowardice to expose the moral hypocrisy of those smug self righteous progressives that pile on upon a man’s passing.

    Was Jesse Helms a racist, possibly maybe even probably. He did employ blacks well before it was the norm in his career before politics, but that is really besides the point. Did he play the race card effectively, quite so. Yet that is where the hypocrisy of the left is so glaring. Where is the outrage over the racism and prejudice routinely used by the left. It doesn’t exist. I find entertainment out of pointing that out.

    In short, nothing Jesse Helms ever did approaches the moral depravity and personal cowardice that adversity revealed to be at the core of Ted Kennedy. It is not an excuse for Helms excesses but it does put it into perspective.

  47. Gravatar Icon 47 MacDaddy

    I didn’t do any whitewashing over at daddyBstrong.blogspot.com I talked about how he called Latins volatile, lesbians wenches but reserved most of his hatred and mean-spiritedness against blacks and gays.

  48. Gravatar Icon 48 Sean D. Martin

    Amused Observer: Did he play the race card effectively, quite so. Yet that is where the hypocrisy of the left is so glaring. Where is the outrage over the racism and prejudice routinely used by the left.

    Where is the outrage over the racism and prejudice routinely used by the right?

    At most you note “Was Jesse Helms a racist, possibly maybe even probably.” Probably?

    This is typical. I’ve seen it twice just in postings on this site this morning. When someone on the right is criticized the response from the right, no matter how blatantly terrible the behavior being criticized is, is to shrug and say “but what about all those bad guys on the left?”

    Never acknowledge a short coming. Never criticize one of our own. Always instead change the subject and switch the blame to the other side.

  49. Gravatar Icon 49 JadeGold

    My oh my.

    JayIDTea claims Jesse Helms:

    Helms did quite a bit of good over the course of his Senate career. I believe he played a decent role in checking the expansionist policies of the Soviet Union, and helped us eventually defeat them.

    His staunch opposition to the United Nations was certainly well-justified.

    He was a budget hawk, and said “no” to a lot of stupid, wasteful programs.

    Budget hawk? Wasreful programs? JayIDTea must have missed the tobacco subsidies which not only wasted gazillions of dollars but contributed mightily to the deaths of many Americans (and others)from smoking-related illnesses.

    Actually, Helms was the Soviet Union’s best friend; you see, the old USSR really couldn’t point to a lot of faults on the US side except racism. Old Jesse made that propaganda point for them.

  50. Gravatar Icon 50 Amused Observer

    Frankly Sean,
    I’m not shocked or outraged by racism as a political tool. I’ve seen far too much of it. It isn’t shocking, it is predictable, on the right on the left. What I am is amused by the premise that the very bedrock of human nature is to overlook the very bedrock of human nature.

    This is Oliver’s show. He is a fairly bright young man with a modest grasp of politics. He is a wee bit snarky in his postings but on the whole is a moderate voice of the left. He is bright but not wise, that may come with experience. He does possess a keen eye for cute chicks though. Which is all as it should be.

    He is less than intellectually honest in his postings as are most of the commentors here. Thatis hardly a unique failing. When the commentors here have piled on deep enough I just can’t help poking holes in thier positions.

    “Never acknowledge a short coming. Never criticize one of our own. Always instead change the subject and switch the blame to the other side.”

    Truly Sean, do you read a lot of self critism here or anywhere else. Again human nature. The bell curve applies to both sides of the political spectrum.

    Helms wan’t a nice man on the public stage to minorities. He was hardly evil. Ted Kennedy committed a far more dastardly act then anything Jesse Helms ever did. He gets a pass from those on the left. Was he evil? maybe maybe not. He was certainly a despicable coward unworthy of public office.

    Indeed I would be interested in hearing an articulate argument why he shouldn’t have gone to prison. His shortcomings far outweigh anything Helms did. He would have literally had to lynch someone to sink to Kennedy’s level.

  51. Gravatar Icon 51 socraticsilence

    Helms wan’t a nice man on the public stage to minorities. He was hardly evil.
    Tell you what let’s ignore the racism then, and even the antigay sutff, hell let’s overloook his vindictiveness in allowing millions to suffer with AIDS, instead lets focus on his close kinship and perhaps envy of the death squads and his outright lust to be a nun-raper, seriously the man’s record in the Southern Hemisphere alone is enough to push him past virtually every other major Americn Political figure, Jess Helms never met a facist he didn’t evny or a nun he wouldn’t allow to be raped.

  52. Gravatar Icon 52 daniel rotter

    “Indeed I would be interested in hearing an articulate argument why he shouldn’t have gone to prison.”

    Are you also interested in hearing an articulate argument about why Laura Bush shouldn’t have gone to prison?

  53. Gravatar Icon 53 Sean D. Martin

    Amused Observer: Truly Sean, do you read a lot of self critism here or anywhere else.

    Some, but about as much as would be expected on a board of this type. I am gratified to see, though, that several folks here do take OW and each other to task when mountains start getting made from molehills. There have been a lot of comments, for example, objecting to Obama being criticized for the non-issue of lapel pins. But there have ALSO been a lot of comments objecting to McCain’s being criticized for slips of the lounge.

    Amused: Helms wan’t a nice man on the public stage to minorities. He was hardly evil. Ted Kennedy committed a far more dastardly act then anything Jesse Helms ever did.

    Note that you dismiss Helms as “hardly evil” and then change the subject to Kennedy’s character and go on for a paragraph and a half about that. Providing another perfect example of exactly what I was pointing out. Thank you.

    Note, I’m note defending Kennedy. I’m pointing out that the subject is Helms, and you dismiss him and instead start going on about someone on the left.

  54. Gravatar Icon 54 Sean D. Martin

    Damn, Screwed up my italic tags. Want to be clear about which are my words in the prior post. Should have been:

    Amused: Helms wan’t a nice man on the public stage to minorities. He was hardly evil. Ted Kennedy committed a far more dastardly act then anything Jesse Helms ever did.

    Note that you dismiss Helms as “hardly evil” and then change the subject to Kennedy’s character and go on for a paragraph and a half about that. Providing another perfect example of exactly what I was pointing out. Thank you.

    Note, I’m note defending Kennedy. I’m pointing out that the subject is Helms, and you dismiss him and instead start going on about someone on the left.

  55. Gravatar Icon 55 fafaroo

    “Most liberal policies are well meaning but short sighted and an intrusion upon the freedoms and liberties that were the founding basis of this country.”

    One could say the exact same things about Bush’s war on terror, from the invasion of Iraq to illegal wiretapping to the approval of torture. So I wonder. Do you spend much time thinking about how you would you feel if your daughter was killed, say, in the carnage of civil conflict unleashed by our horrifically botched occupation of Iraq? I mean if you want to put things in “perspective.”

  56. Gravatar Icon 56 daniel rotter

    “Most liberal policies are well meaning but short sighted and an intrusion upon the freedoms and liberties that were the founding basis of this country.”

    So the policy of illegally wiretapping the phone conversations of American citizens without getting a warrant is a “liberal” one?

  57. Gravatar Icon 57 aw

    An amusing observation of the Confused Observer:

    Frankly Sean,
    I’m not shocked or outraged by racism as a political tool. I’ve seen far too much of it. It isn’t shocking, it is predictable, on the right on the left.

    Not sure if you noticed, but AO is implicitly equating Jim Crow with Affirmative Action.

    What’s the phrase? “Moral equivalence.” Oh yeah.

    This guy is an authentic idiot and I’d suggest talking to him is a waste of time.

  58. Gravatar Icon 58 Amused Observer

    AW
    While AA is legalized discrimination and differs from Jim Crow laws more by degree than kind that was not my point.
    I was referring to statements like Jesse Jackson and heimietown, Al Sharpton and his challenge to NY jews, and Cynthia McKinney’s daddy’s statement after her losing race.

  59. Gravatar Icon 59 Enlightened Liberal

    “I was referring to statements like Jesse Jackson and heimietown, Al Sharpton and his challenge to NY jews, and Cynthia McKinney’s daddy’s statement after her losing race.”

    Because as we all know, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Cynthia McKinney’s Dad are all government policy makers whose policies affect millions of people like Helms.

    Have you no shame? Oh wait, if you had shame you wouldn’t be a conservative.

  60. Gravatar Icon 60 Quaker in a Basement

    Indeed I would be interested in hearing an articulate argument why he shouldn’t have gone to prison.

    Here’s one: He wasn’t convicted of a crime in a court of law.

  61. Gravatar Icon 61 Amused Observer

    Quaker,
    You’re pathetic. You know damn well what he did. If you have kids and that happened to your daughter I doubt you’d be so smug.

    I doubt there is anything much lower than picking up a dumb little chick at a party, taking off in your car for a little private action, accidently driving into a pond and then leaving the chick to drown. Sure you could have gone to a house and called for help but then people might have found out what you did.

    But no problem to swim off the island trying to set up an alibi.
    “Here’s one: He wasn’t convicted of a crime in a court of law.”
    And you’ll defend him. Wow.

  62. Gravatar Icon 62 Enlightened Liberal

    By the way AO, if you haven’t checked the other thread we were waiting for you to tell us where in Freakonimics it talked about less black children=less crime.

  63. Gravatar Icon 63 Quaker in a Basement

    Quaker,
    You’re pathetic.

    Thank youi. So are you.

    You know damn well what he did. If you have kids and that happened to your daughter I doubt you’d be so smug.

    That’s not what you asked. You wanted “an articulate argument why he shouldn’t have gone to prison.”

    He. Wasn’t. Convicted. For someone who has such a profound “appreciation and understanding of the Constitution,” you don’t know much about our legal system, do you?

  64. Gravatar Icon 64 Quaker in a Basement

    And you’ll defend him. Wow.

    Sorry, you’re wrong again. I explained what you wanted explained. That’s all.

  65. Gravatar Icon 65 Duros62

    He [Helms} would have had to participate in a lynching to reach the level of depravity that defines Ted Kennedy.

    How do you know he didn’t? I understand folks wear hoods at those sorts of thing.

  66. Gravatar Icon 66 Duros62

    Are you also interested in hearing an articulate argument about why Laura Bush shouldn’t have gone to prison?

    Or Cindy McCain, for that matter?

  67. Gravatar Icon 67 Parthenon

    He [Helms} would have had to participate in a lynching to reach the level of depravity that defines Ted Kennedy.

    Wait… Intentionally committing a racial killing equates to being involved in an accidental death and trying to help them yourself but not (because you’re too distressed or confused if you believe the Senator, or too selfish if you believe his conservative enemies, whatever the reason really) summoning more effective help?

    I humbly suggest that lynching someone indicates a much greater level of depravity than Kennedy’s behavior at the time of his accident. But we’ve all got our own ideas about morality, I suppose.

    How do you know he didn’t? I understand folks wear hoods at those sorts of thing.

    Reminds me of an Onion headline - “Three quarters of klan rally attendees actually undercover reporters.”

  68. Gravatar Icon 68 Duros62

    Sure you could have gone to a house and called for help but then people might have found out what you did.

    Have you ever been to Chappaquidick? Do you have any idea how sparsely populated it is (or was at the time)? Even if he ran for help, even if he wasn’t drunk, she would have died regardless.
    He fucked up, no doubt about it, but I would hardly ascribe it to malice.

  69. Gravatar Icon 69 MAJeff

    Yes, Helms was evil. Look at his actions with regard to AIDS and gay men. He fostered policies that led to more deaths, and he celebrated those deaths. He wasn’t just inarticulate, he wanted us dead and acted to ensure it would happen.

  70. Gravatar Icon 70 daniel rotter

    Jesse Helms was to gays and lesbians what anti-Semites are to Jews.

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