Folks complaining that Sen. Obama is now moving to the center would have more room to speak if he hadn’t been at the center all this time. I saw a similar thing happen with Howard Dean (someone whose candidacy I supported). Dean was a centrist governor, even praised by the NRA, who happened to be against the war. Like Obama, once you are against the war - no matter your other moderate positions on the issues - the right and the press consider you a radical liberal, perhaps just a few steps away from someone like Dennis Kucinich. Unlike President Clinton, Sen. Obama isn’t seriously moving on any issues. He’s been in that center-left position for his whole time on the national scene. Now you may or may not agree with his stance on some issues (I don’t like his FISA stance but have little to no problem with everything else), but let’s not pretend his position is something it never was.
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Well, if I recall, he promised to help Chris Dodd filibuster the FISA bill! That’s not a shift. Let’s call it what it is: A House Negro Sellout.
Markos, I think, sort of sums up Mr. O’s recent problems:
“First, he reversed course and capitulated on FISA, not just turning back on the Constitution, but on the whole concept of “leadership”. Personally, I like to see presidents who 1) lead, and 2) uphold their promises to protect the Constitution.
Then, he took his not-so-veiled swipe at MoveOn in his “patriotism” speech.
Finally, he reinforced right-wing and media talking points that Wes Clark had somehow impugned McCain’s military service when, in reality, Clark had done no such thing.”
Could’ve fooled me, and maybe he is. Maybe what looks like cowering to me is really part of that “moving to the center” stuff everyone keeps talking about. But there is a line between “moving to the center” and stabbing your allies in the back out of fear of being criticized. And, of late, he’s been doing a lot of unecessary stabbing, betraying his claims of being a new kind of politician. Not that I ever bought it, but Obama is now clearly not looking much different than every other Democratic politician who has ever turned his or her back on the base in order to prove centrist bona fides. That’s not an indictment, just an observation.
Now I know there’s a contingent around here that things Obama can do no wrong, and he must never be criticized, and if you do, well fuck you! I respect the sentiment, but will respectfully disagree. We’re allowed to do that here. But fair notice — I will never pull a Rush Limbaugh and carry water for anyone. Not for the Democratic Congress, and not for our future Democratic president. When anyone does something I don’t care for, I will say so. I’ve never pulled my punches before, so why start now?
One more thing: he’s on record as saying he doesn’t really people like you Oliver, independent bloggers, who have the apparently thankless and unpaid job of protecting someone’s back who hates you, and prefers the establishment media. He’d rather hang with wise David Broder and Little Tommy Friedman than MoveOn, because, you know, they hate America. I used to work for the corporate media and now I write independently as an online writer. I can’t tell you how superior the writing is online as opposed to working for rich people who really don’t give a fuck about the public interest. The Netroots is probably the most democratic and vital thing I’ve seen in communications media since I’ve been alive. And Obama doesn’t like us? And he’s also the guy who’s supposed to protect the Internet? The same he was going to protect us against FISA? I don’t know. Very troubling few weeks.
Still better than McCain, but, really, by how much…
Well, if I recall, he promised to help Chris Dodd filibuster the FISA bill! That’s not a shift. Let’s call it what it is: A House Negro Sellout.
It was with only the greatest of effort that I continued reading your post after this opening.
But fair notice — I will never pull a Rush Limbaugh and carry water for anyone. Not for the Democratic Congress, and not for our future Democratic president.
Admirable, but is there a difference between picking your battles/realizing you’ll never agree with anyone 100% and ‘carrying water?’
It seems to me (and I say this with the greatest respect and admiration for many bloggers, on both ends of the spectrum) that it might be time the blogsphere got the message that neither Dennis Kucinich nor Tom Tancredo (pick whichever extreme ends of the American political spectrum you prefer) will ever be elected president. America is, by and large, a pretty centrist nation relative to much of the rest of the world. And judging by the conditions in politically extreme countries, that’s a good thing.
“perhaps just a few steps away from someone like Dennis Kucinich”
Don’t hate on Dennis!
Phillip Shropshire -
A word to the wise. I agree with your points but unless you are an African American you cannot call Obama a House Negro Sellout. I don’t want to argue or debate with you about it period. Don’t go there under any circumstances unless you are also belong to the tribe known as the American Negro People.
PT Cruiser: I’m an African American and you’re right.
Well, okay. That removes a reason for me to feel anxious. Now you can talk about him like a dog if you want. (:~)
Thank you! It’s not racist when I do it. Now about those Jews…just kidding.
Youtube clip about field negro vs. house negro. I wanted to be a house negro but they weren’t hiring. Oh this is funny. “Whatsamatter Telecom companies, we sick?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znQe9nUKzvQ
Way to derail the discussion, Philip.
As for Obama–he’s no Dean. Dean was perceived as more liberal than he actually was because he was unabashedly partisan, refusing to cede an inch of moral authority to the right wing even if he occasionally had something in common with them.
Obama is giving away the store. My greatest fear is that he’s just another (Bill) Clinton, someone who cares about his own personal success so much that he’s willing to demoralize and disgust a party that’s bigger and better than him.
Philip is one of those guys who thinks that every black person who doesn’t toe his exact line is a house negro sellout. Trust me, I’ve been on the receiving end of that attack and its always lame.
You mean out and about Black Atheist Philip Shropshire? Yeah, I’m just one of the black politically correct herd…Look, I like Obama personally a lot. I just wish I could like his policies. Right now he looks like Hillary with a tan…
For the record I don’t think Obama is a house negro sellout but I am extremely disappointed with his stance on FISA. I will vote for him but my enthusiasm is gone. Voting for FISA is not moving to the center as far as I am concerned.
Oliver:
Can you please explain what “the center” means?
Would you stipulate that Obama is slightly farther to the left in voting compared to the majority of the Democratic members of Congress?
If not, then do you have some sort of rating system (rather than VoteView)that shows he is closer to the center than most other Democrats?
This has been a bad week to watch Obama. I grudgingly became a supporter after Edwards, Dodd, and Richardson were done, and when it because clear that Gore would not ride in and save the day.
I warmed to him, and to the enthusiasm around him. But he is killing the base right now, and I don’t get it. He cannot be so tone-deaf nor so naive as to think that the MSM will give him a pass, regardless of what he does — he’s going to be the far-left liberal communist America-hating elitist. Facts have nothing to do with it.
So why is he hanging Clark out to dry, why is he blaming Vietnam on dirty hippies, why is pissing on the Constitution? The nicest thing I can come up with is that he’s secretly taken Hillary’s strategists on as part of the deal to have her stand down.
But as my friend Dave says, it’s looking more and more like Obama represents the friendly face of fascism. I pray he’s wrong.
Wait until people find out he wants to expand faith based programs.
I don’t know JWG, are you willing to stipulate that MCCain has morphed into a Bush clone over the past few years if we do?
“Right now he looks like Hillary with a tan…”
Waiting for the outrage from Oliver, August, etc.
McCain is far to the left of Bush according to the rating system I linked. Perhaps Oliver & Co. can provide a little evidence to support claims about Obama’s lifelong visit to the center of the political universe?
Obama doesnt think we should privatize the Govt, is in favor of tax cuts, doesnt support gay marriage, supports gun rights but not to an extreme, supports a woman’s right to choose nut favors a few restrictions. In other words, far closer to the center than McCain. Socially McCain is not as far right as Bush but he subscribes to the same con ideology with fiscal issues and the role of govt.
“Waiting for the outrage from Oliver, August, etc.”
Don’t wait up, Gravy. Mr. Shropshire owns the rights to say so. Mr. Norquist does not.
“So why is he hanging Clark out to dry, why is he blaming Vietnam on dirty hippies, why is pissing on the Constitution?”
I don’t have an answer to any of your questions but as for me, again, “the thrill is gone, gone away for good.” I will vote for him and do it without holding my nose but no more of my money and no more of my time. It is imperative for the safety of this country and, perhaps, the world that the Republicans have to go and right along through here Obama is the only alternative but I no longer HOPE that his election will bring about any significant changes. I guess that’s the way the prune wrinkles.
PTCruiser, I hear you, and that’s about where I am right now. We needed a quantum change to save ourselves, and it looks like the best we can hope for is an incremental one. Corporatists run things, and will continue to do so after January.
Right now he looks like Hillary with a tan…
Ok, can you either confirm or deny whether or not this is sarcasm?
If yes, ignore the rest of the post.
If not, where the hell does the phrase even come from? It’s not from the northeast, since neither August nor Oliver have heard it. It’s not from the southwest or midwest, since I haven’t ever heard it neither at home nor in college. That just leaves the deep south and the west coast, mostly.
Oliver lists a bunch of stuff that Obama has recently claimed, but can’t provide evidence through a voting record. Wow.
supports gun rights but not to an extreme
He is not a supporter of gun rights in any way, shape or form. He supported DC in the Heller case.
supports a woman’s right to choose nut favors a few restrictions
What restrictions does he favor?
What restrictions [on abortion] does he favor?
If I may…
“On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I’ve said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn’t have that.” — Fox News Sunday, April 2008
He is not a supporter of gun rights in any way, shape or form.
Not really a fire-breather in either direction, but ‘no way, shape, or form?’ How so?
“Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it’s important for us to recognize that we’ve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people’s traditions.” –Feb. 11, 2008
“Don’t wait up, Gravy. Mr. Shropshire owns the rights to say so. Mr. Norquist does not.”
How racist of him, then.
To explain my earlier comment regarding Mr. Shropshire’s reference to Sen. Obama - I try not to condone nasty racial language (aside from humor, occasionally, if not terribly mean-spirited) from anyone, to anyone, about anyone. It may or may not be racist, but you do sound like an ignorant dipshit. If society has decided that ethnicities have a right to refer to themselves in such a way, fine. Not my business. But it won’t stop me from thinking you sound like an ignorant dipshit.
But it won’t stop me from thinking you sound like an ignorant dipshit.
Especially on the Intertrons where there is no color unless you choose to divulge it.
Does the same lecture apply to liberals who comment on this site and refer to black republicans using the n-word?
JWG - assuming you’re talking about the comment I posted above, if I may be so pompous as to quote myself…
from anyone, to anyone, about anyone.
JWG, Gravy, if you want to understand whether Mr. Shropshire’s characterization is racist, I suggest you ask him for an explanation.
Just be aware you may not be as ready for the answer as you think.
Does the same lecture apply to liberals who comment on this site and refer to black republicans using the n-word?
Was I out that day? When did that ever happen?
Randy Brown has used the term more than once to characterize black republicans.
Then by all means, ask Mr. Brown about it. While you’re at it, be sure to accuse him of racism.
Let us know how it goes.
Well, if i can wade in here….. I just stopped giving him money, that’s all. I will vote for him because he is, probably “at worst”, the lesser of two evils, and may be quite a leader at best…. but my giving money to the political cause was a change for me lately, and now since the thrill is gone, and he is showing me that he doesn’t care about my personal opinions v. those of the corporations, he gets no further money from me. It’s really tath simple. If he wanted to “change politics” he could, you know, actually, um, CHANGE THE WAY HE DOES BUSINESS… but he is really not doing that. It’s just a fact, for all the bluster. He gets no more money from me, as he is enabling the shredding of the constitution, which I have an opinion about.
I have always given money to political causes and candidates and I don’t regret my contributions over the past year to Obama’s campaign. I have a rule, however, when it comes to my money: I don’t believe in fattening frogs for snakes. If Obama wants to compromise on FISA and continue talking about the 1960s in a way that clearly shows, at least to me, that he does not understand what he is talking about that is okay. I just won’t pay for it anymore.
I’ve never donated to a political cause in my life. So far I’ve donated to Obama’s campaign 4 times. Fact is, he hasn’t really done anything yet to justify all this ire from you guys. He supports measures to catch bad guys within the law. Nothing in the bill gives carte blanche to spying on US citizens. A warrant is still required from the FISA court. he will oppose immunity for telecomms who broke the rules.
What do you want?
My relationship with Obama is primarily transactional at this point. He wants my vote and he has my vote. The real question is: what more does he want from me?
My relationship with Obama is primarily transactional at this point.
Well, yeah, i didn’t think you were dating or anything.
Well, now that you’re satisfied that he and I are not going to the movies together why don’t you answer the question. Obama has my vote. What more do you believe he wants from me?
I don’t know. At this point, I think your support is enough.
BTW, check out Glenn Greenwald’s response today to statements about FISA made by an Obama advisor. Strains of Ray Charles’ great song “I’ve Got News For You” are starting to play in my ears.
“I don’t know. At this point, I think your support is enough.”
Yes, you are right and I appreciate the response. I don’t have to believe that the sun rises and sets in his behind to vote for him. What he can’t do is to blow smoke up my behind and try to get me to believe the world is on fire. That’s the Republican way and I refuse to be a part of their hypocrisy. I will vote for Obama but when he does something that I do not agree with I will voice my displeasure.
As you should.
A note from Obama
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whoops.