I’m all for insurance reform. And I admit, I have to agree that govt. intervention should not be the first go-to, but the entire insurance industry consists of nothing more than organized crime leaders and racketeers.
You cannot convince me that medical insurance is nothing more than a protection money shakedown.

There is no incentive for them to drive down prices and provide better service or coverage. I really resent the idea of some shmoe in an office telling my doctor what he can treat me for and how, or saying I can only have this many of this pill a month. I resent the fact that virtually every insurance claim is automatically denied, and that they just hope you give up and go away. Or die, whichever comes first.

And right here is where you and reality part company.

How so? You don’t think this administration is looking out for Corporate America more than American citizens? Do you think the whole Medicare D bullshit is fair to the elderly?

Obviously, I don’t think we live in a fascist state, but we keep inching towards it.

Republicans have blocked and filibustered more legislation in the Senate in one year than any other congress has in it’s entire 2 year term. Look it up.

Next, private businesses do not have an incentive to provide a decent product at a reasonable price. Particularly across an industry like insurance. What they have an incentive to do is maximize their profits. And then you explain how they do that! By driving their costs lower than what they can charge for a product or service. How do they do that? 1. Raising the price of what they charge for their service at a far greater rate than inflation. 2. Lower the cost of their service or product. AKA, denying coverage, withholding payments, and passing a share onto its consumers.

As a fact, government does keep costs lower than private business in the health care industry. They do this by having a fraction of the administrative costs that insurance companies have, and by taking out the profit margin. I’ll further back this up by pointing out that the US pays out the most money by far for its health care and is behind nearly every industrialized nation in the level of care that buys.

And its funny that you complain about dealing with the SSA. Alot of the SSA’s backlog is caused by private insurance companies forcing its customers to apply for social security disability before they will pay for temporary disability supplemental claims.

Another interesting fact for you, governemtn in the US pays a larger percentage of the nation’s health care costs than private insurance does.

I’d love the opportunity to see their math, but as I noted above, it’s not available. I am “ignoring evidence”, not because I don’t like it, but because you have failed to produce it.

Really? You’ve given no evidence to support your case.

And neither have you. Saying “I read excerpts of the reports on other sites” hardly qualifies.

So you are intentionally being this stupid.

Your inability to understand that my argument is “The R’s did not vote against extending S-CHIP” and not this mythical “The current health care system is the most wonderful one possible and is without flaw and everyone gets the exact care they need at the cheapest cost” is an indication of your stupidity, not mine. I’ve tried to explain it several times.

Why? Explain how a company looking to make a profit can handle this better than the government looking to improve the health of its citizens?

You’re kidding, right? Okay, first off, private businesses have an incentive to provide a decent product or service at a reasonable price or they will not survive the marketplace. The government does not. Businesses make their profit by driving their costs lower than what they can charge for the product or service. The government, as a monopoly, can pay lip service to keeping costs down. Why not? What is their incentive to do otherwise?

If you need more examples of how private businesses are more efficient that government, then here is good place to start.

I do like how you added the wording “looking to improve the health of its citizens” to make the government sound much more compassionate. Yes, I’m sure everyone in that enormous health care bureaucracy would all be focused on one thing: giving American citizens the best health care possible. You’ve apparently never interacted with a government bureaucracy before (SSA, IRS, DMV, etc.) or known anyone employed by one.

Now the burden’s on you. Please explain how the government can handle health care better (such as more efficiently or at a cheaper cost) than private businesses can.

So you are saying their bias somehow affected the math. I’d love to see you prove that. If you think they are bias, you have to prove it. Otherwise you are ignoring evidence you don’t like, simply because you don’t like it. And that is bias.

“Which means you didn’t read it either, you just took the CAF press release at face value.”

No, I read excerpts of it from other sites.

“You’re not explaining anything to me that I don’t already know (and probably in more depth than you).”

So you are intentionally being this stupid.

“My original (and only) point was that ‘Republicans voted against S-CHIP’ was a false statement.”

Actually, you have made several other points since then.

“Turning health care management over to a government bureaucracy should be the last resort.”

Why? Explain how a company looking to make a profit can handle this better than the government looking to improve the health of its citizens?

“Although whether it rises to the level of “record breaking” is probably debatable.”

Really? You’ve given no evidence to support your case.

“But it’s not like the R’s are doing something that the D’s never did.”

That’s a logical fallacy. It’s a matter of degrees. The Democrats were never this bad. Never.

But it’s not like the R’s are doing something that the D’s never did. That’s like one thief saying he’s the more honest person because the other thief stole way more stuff than he did.

Then why don’t you argue for medical insurance reform? Change the insurance industry so that more people can afford good and reasonably-priced coverage. Allow everyone to get the kind of “group rate” discounts that big companies do. Turning health care management over to a government bureaucracy should be the last resort.

In our fascistic society, that would be a bad thing.

And right here is where you and reality part company.

You’re not explaining anything to me that I don’t already know (and probably in more depth than you).

You keep laboring under the false impression that I’m arguing against expanding S-CHIP or that I’m somehow against people getting taxpayer-funded medical care in general. I’m not against either.

Did you miss this sentence in my last comment?

“My original (and only) point was that “Republicans voted against S-CHIP” was a false statement.”

My point, Dave, was that it would take away from insurance companies profit margin. In our fascistic society, that would be a bad thing.

but what are Democrats interested in? Mothers Day votes

Hey, your team brought it up in the first place.

When you don’t have facts on your side, I guess that flinging feces is really all you have left.

You mean that press release and report from ‘Campaign for America’s Future’?

From the wiki entry for Campaign for America’s Future (CAF):

“an American political organization of progressives. Its main issues of concern include the environment, energy independence, health care reform, Social Security, and education. The Nation editor Katrina vanden Heuvel, AFL-CIO president John Sweeney, and Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa serve on its board of directors.

Within the Democratic Party, it often serves as a counterweight to the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC).[1] CAF argues that the Democratic Party should draw sharp contrasts with the Republicans and advance a progressive agenda.”

Sure. No bias there. Totally neutral and all that.

Hey, you know that report they trumpet? That “huge story”? That “historic story”? Turns out it’s not available on the website. Which you would have known if you had bothered to check. But no, you are clearly far too fucking stupid to do that.

Which means you didn’t read it either, you just took the CAF press release at face value.

If you can’t get preventative treatment and medicines, you will die younger. For that matter, in many cases by the time the medical issue is at the point where the ER will treat it, it is too late. You can’t sure cancer in the ER. I can’t believe we have to explain this to you.

A healthy population is a productive population. It is in your best interest to make sure people can get medical treatment BEFORE it requires a trip to the emergency ward. Not only that, but S-CHIP is actually cheaper than private insurance, which is good news.

I never said it was an efficent or better way to provide health care, I was merely responding to your dipshit comment “you’re basically saying it’s OK for people to die once they turn 18″.

Way to shift the goalposts (again). My original (and only) point was that “Republicans voted against S-CHIP” was a false statement.

Secondly, you can’t get preventative care from an ER, or medication for that matter. ER care is just that, emergency care. Fucking dumbass.

Yeah, no shit Sherlock. My wife is an ER doc so I suspect that I have a better understanding of the services that are provided there (and their cost as well as likelihood of being paid for) than you do. So why didn’t you try to make that as a point instead of your patently stupid “18 is OK to die” comment? Probably because trying to dismiss someone as a heartless bastard or a moron is much easier than, you know, debating an issue.

Dumb. Fucking. Shit.

See, at some point you have to insult these people, because they are so insult=worthy.

Yet you are talking about it. A lot.

“Do a Google search on ‘gop vote against mothers’ and returns dozens of links to blogs and such where people are practically spitting on their screens in anger.”

Dozens. Dozens? Dozens on blogs on the internet. Wow. I can’t believe you find that impressive. By the way, how many of those are making the same point we are; i.e. The GOP voted against Mother’s Day in order to waste more time and prevent votes on more important subjects.

“Democrats caterwauled for weeks about the media focusing on Jeremiah Wright, but what are Democrats interested in? Mothers Day votes and Cindy McCain’s tax returns.”

Two points…

1.) Cindy McCain is helping fund her husband’s campaign, so her financial records are just as fair game as any other candidate. The only difference is, she files separately so we don’t know anything about her. For that matter, John Kerry was attacked for marrying a rich woman, so if Teresa Heinz Kerry is fair game, why isn’t Cindy?

2.) That’s a rather incomplete, and misleading list. But you’ve never let the facts get in the way of your political beliefs.

Me: “By the way, I like how you insulted me but never bother to discuss my points.”

Jay: “Sorry, I couldn’t see past all of your tourette’s outbursts.”

And that makes you stupid, Jay. And you are proud of being a fucking idiot. Ignorant and proud of it is one of the cornerstones of being Sub-Human.

…Wow…you’re a complete moron. ER treatment expenses don’t magically disappear, for one thing, someone has to pay for it. And of course, that ends up being the tax-payers.

Secondly, you can’t get preventative care from an ER, or medication for that matter. ER care is just that, emergency care. Fucking dumbass.

Good grief, only Jay could see a negative over Democrats being interested in a resolution supporting Mothers Day.

Well, OK, there is actually.

Actually, I don’t care about the vote. My responses are secondary to that particular part of the entire discussion. You’re claiming that people are being ‘humorous’ about it. I don’t think that’s the case. Do a Google search on “gop vote against mothers” and returns dozens of links to blogs and such where people are practically spitting on their screens in anger.

Democrats caterwauled for weeks about the media focusing on Jeremiah Wright, but what are Democrats interested in? Mothers Day votes and Cindy McCain’s tax returns.

By the way, I like how you insulted me but never bother to discuss my points.

Sorry, I couldn’t see past all of your tourette’s outbursts.

Of course, this is the same president that vetoed his own Iraq funding bill.