It’s pretty clear where Obama stands, and the people who are going to keep saying things “raise questions” are just McCain/Clinton types who are trying to whip up noise.
“I’m outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle. The person that I saw yesterday was not the person I met 20 years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate. I believe they do not accurately portray the perspective of the black church. They certainly don’t portray mine. If he considers this political posturing, then he doesn’t know me very well. And I don’t know him well either.”
I’m waiting for JK to return to the forum to tell us how Obama is deliberately lying and that he agrees with Wright completely on everything, which is why he’d rather vote for John McCain, who doesn’t even agree with himself.
He had to do it, of course, but please don’t expect me to be happy at yet another example in the long history of “moderates” teaming up with the right to squelch any expression of left-wing dissent that doesn’t say within the 49-yard lines (while at the same time the constant expression of sheer lunacy and hatefulness by the right goes unpunished).
So I have to apologize, but I love FARK, where everything is brought down to my low low low level…. So here is the FARK headline on this:
“The person I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago,” Obama said of the man who married him. In related news, apparently Obama is gay
(For the most part, FARK seems to lean towards Obama (at the moment.)
“The person that I saw yesterday was not the person I met 20 years ago.”
The person he saw yesterday was the EXACT SAME person he defended last month in his “Throw Grandma Under the Bus” speech. Only now, when even the Olbermanns of the world realize that Wright is hurting him with the electorate, does he stop defending this guy.
I know thee not, old man: fall to thy prayers;
How ill white hairs become a fool and jester!
I have long dream’d of such a kind of man,
So surfeit-swell’d, so old and so profane;
But, being awaked, I do despise my dream.
Make less thy body hence, and more thy grace;
Leave gormandizing; know the grave doth gape
For thee thrice wider than for other men.
Reply not to me with a fool-born jest:
Presume not that I am the thing I was;
For God doth know, so shall the world perceive,
That I have turn’d away my former self;
So will I those that kept me company.
When thou dost hear I am as I have been,
Approach me, and thou shalt be as thou wast,
The tutor and the feeder of my riots:
Till then, I banish thee, on pain of death,
As I have done the rest of my misleaders,
Not to come near our person by ten mile.
For competence of life I will allow you,
That lack of means enforce you not to evil:
And, as we hear you do reform yourselves,
We will, according to your strengths and qualities,
Give you advancement. Be it your charge, my lord,
To see perform’d the tenor of our word.
–Henry IV, Part I
Last month’s speech was not a “defense” of Wright’s remarks at that time, but that’s the way it got characterized because he also refused to say “And I’m never ever talking to him again. We’re not BFFs any more ever again ever!”
Indeed, his first speech was a clear repudiation of those specific remarks, and this second response is a clear repudiation to these new remarks.
He also didn’t “throw his grandmother under the bus,” as it is, he treated her with the same attitude he treated Wright–”I love them both as they are my family, but cannot agree with certain things they have said.”
The people who refuse to hear these very simple elucidations, like Farris, must come from amazing families where everybody is loving and perfect and nobody ever says anything that other members of the family may vehemently disagree with. Or, if anybody in these wonderful families ever did say something repellent, they were immediately disowned and never heard from again.
First grandma and now his spiritual advisor/mentor. Next under the bus…Ayers. And if his wife doesn’t watch her fat pie hole, she’ll be next.
Christie, see Spider’s remarks above. There is no fucking bus!
Thank you.
Family is one thing. Other than picking out a spouse, you don’t get to choose who joins that club. Close personal friends, on the other hand, you have control of. Unless you’ve seen a birth certificate that I haven’t, there’s no familial relationship. Which means the constraints Barack might have felt towards his racist Grandma were nonexistent when it came to his racist pastor and friend.
but please don’t expect me to be happy at yet another example in the long history of “moderates” teaming up with the right to squelch any expression of left-wing dissent that doesn’t say within the 49-yard lines
I apparently missed the memo that said praising Louis Farrakhan and saying AIDS is a government conspiracy to kill blacks are prominent left-wing talking points.
To paraphrase a famous line, that’s not straying from the 49-yard-line, that’s not the same game, that’s not even the same fucking sport.
Obama has known him for twenty years. He enlightened him to his faith. He married him and his spouse. To Obama, this makes Wright “family.”
You, Farris, prove nothing save that you have a narrow definition of family that Obama does not share, but you have determined that your definition is superior. (Which is just another echo of the right-wing predilection to disavow homosexual couples raising children not as “families” so much as they are “abominations.”)
You’ll find Obama’s views on family in many cultures, including our own–the idea of the family friend who becomes known as “Uncle Joe,” for example, even though blood plays no part in it.
Farris, I’m far closer to many of my friends than with several of my family. Not that I don’t love the various and sundry members of my family, but I see many of them once a year, if that. My friends I see almost daily. It my friends who see and share my ups, downs, accomplishments, while it is my family who hears about them from a removed distance.
But I’m sure my friends will be glad to know they get thrown under the bus the moment they say something I disagree with.
Oh, man.
Why do I feel so sad? I was hoping Obama would be man enough to stand up to the pressure, but he’s caved like a cheap suitcase.
This is EXACTLY what Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and the rest of the Right-wing scum were oping Obama would do.
Who the HELL is advising him? Either you do this a month ago, or you don’t do it at all.
Pathetic.
Everything Obama does impresses me (even his comportment at the last debate). If Obama wasn’t being honest in the press conference, if his denunciation was any part politically opportunistic, I couldn’t detect it. He seemed genuinely pained.
God, DARE WE think of dignity and honesty cohabiting the White House? For FOUR or even EIGHT years? He’s brilliant, but being triple-teamed AND gangbanged by the scandal-mongering press may be too much–the superdelegates may lose their nerve and redound to politics-as-usual.
I’m old enough to remember the noble black character who had to get killed off in the first reel…too good to last the whole film. Someone tell me we’re not trapped in a B movie.
OTOH, I liked Obama answering questions of the press–peeps can see him looking effortlessly presidential. Such a good fit.
Wellstone: “Why do I feel so sad? I was hoping Obama would be man enough to stand up to the pressure, but he’s caved like a cheap suitcase… Pathetic.”
God DAMN it, Wellstone, what the fuck is your problem? Did you not see Spider’s comments on this? How Obama repudiated Wright’s comments a month ago, and then did the same here? You really seem to have a personal problem with the man, and aside from you being buried halfway up Hillary’s large intestine, I cannot see what your issue is with him.
Wellstone: “This is EXACTLY what Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and the rest of the Right-wing scum were oping Obama would do.”
Fuck those guys. They have shit-for-brains. Anyone listening to that group of assholes isn’t going to vote for Obama anyway. But besides that, how could Obama coming out and denouncing Wright’s statements hurt him any more than how he was being injured in the first place? Why does him coming out against Wright’s statements hurt him via right-wing media?
The media and a lot of idiotic people have been trying to crucify him for a month for another man’s words. What more does Obama have to do? This is all so much bullshit, it makes me absolutely furious.
Starting to get crowded under that bus, Obama.
Of course, Hannity was foaming at the mouth over Obama’s repudiation: “He’ll say ANYTHING to get elected!! [snarl…gnash]”
Well, I got six words for you, Hannity: f*ck off, you lousy Mick bastard.
Either you do this a month ago, or you don’t do it at all.
He did do it a month ago, with tact and grace.
THERE IS NO FUCKING BUS!!!!
I’m with you, mambo
BTW, Oliver, I wanted to thank you for posting the whole of Obama’s remarks. You are one of the few that do so.
God, nothing he does is ever good enough for you mouth-breathers. First is “Reverend Wright said some stuff I didn’t like, WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!”, now it’s “Obama denounced Wright, he’ll say anything to get elected, WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!”
I have one thing to say to you people: Get the fuck out of my country.
He’d have been a lot better off just pretending to be a Christian like chickengeorge bush and reagan did.
“I have one thing to say to you people: Get the fuck out of my country.”
Not strong enough. How about, “Get the fuck off my planet.”
Here’s what Obama actually said in his famous speech in Philadelphia March 18:
“…And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions — the good and the bad — of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother – a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
Limbaugh, Hannity, Levin, among many others, had a field day with these quotes yesterday.
Thank you, Wellstone, for highlighting the quotation that makes it clear what I have said multiple times in this thread.
“Disown” is something you do to somebody when you banish them completely from your life, and in this particular case it would have been disownership of a man Obama views as a member of his family. It’s a harsh and terrible decision to disown your family even when they do worse things than say something you disagree with, and the people who wish Obama had “disowned” Wright have either never been through it or are so cowardly and thin-skinned that they’d turn their backs on their family members for practically nothing at all.
Something you, Hannity, Limbaugh, and others fail to highlight is the part of the speech where Obama notes that he chose to talk with the Reverend about his remarks, man-to-man, instead of turning his back and saying “You’re dead to me.” Considering we’ve had eight years of an administration that thinks diplomacy means “I tell you what I want and you agree with it, bitches,” Obama’s maturity is refreshing.
The fact that Limbaugh and his ilk had a field day by taking one snippet out of a very well-constructed and graceful speech and then misinterpreting it ad infinitum means nothing. That’s what they do, that’s what they’ve always done. Look how they turned a rather simple and human request to be able to finish breakfast–the “waffle” nonsense–into a story about how whiny and spineless he is.
I expect it from them. I am not surprised by any of it. If Hannity did a program on how Obama’s handshake is slightly limp and therefore implies he’s a homosexual, I’d be annoyed but not shocked. What shocks me is Democrats like you who are willing to grab onto these antics just because the horse you chose to back in the primary failed to steamroll the competition like you expected her to.
Congratulations to SpiderJ & Sean for missing the point entirely.
Obama was the one that brought family into this when he compared his racist pastor to his racist grandma. Trouble is, Obama’s grandma is going to be Obama’s grandma no matter what. They’re blood. They’re family. If Obama thinks Rev. Wright is so vile, so despicable, then why voluntarily enter a relationship with him? Obama didn’t HAVE to be Wright’s friend. He CHOSE that relationship.
I’ve been to Chicago, and I remember there being more than one church within city limits. Obama made a concious decision to attend that particular church and associate closely with that particular pastor. And if you read Obama’s book, you’ll see he chose Wright exactly because of the firey sermons that Obama is now disavowing and saying “That’s not the man I knew”.
My God, Farris, you’re either willfully dense or just willfully clinging to illogical narrative.
Let’s dissect this slowly.
Twenty years ago, Obama joined the church of Reverend Wright. Wright was known for fiery sermons, and for his iconoclastic nature and social progressivism. Trinity United is a church committed to the rights of homosexuals, for example, and that’s Wright’s doing. You have no proof that Wright was espousing his current poisonous rhetoric 20 years ago, so asking why Obama chose to relate to him at that time is essentially asking Obama why he didn’t look 20 years into the Future and know that Wright would say the things he’s saying today.
And your continued “only blood makes family” nonsense is tiresome. If you’ve never had a deep and personal relationship with somebody that goes beyond mere friendship to the point that you consider them family, fine for you. You have my sympathy.
I have it on good authority that the Rev. Wright once dined at Denny’s and chose lemon merangue pie instead of apple.
Why does Barack Obama hate apple pie?
SaveFarris: If Obama thinks Rev. Wright is so vile, so despicable, then why voluntarily enter a relationship with him?
See, right there. You’re making up a starting position that has nothing to do with reality just so you can support the position you want to take. When Obama began is relationship with Wright he didn’t think he was vile or despicable.
You’re also, as SpiderJ notes, requiring the Obama of 20 years ago to know exactly where the relationship would be now. Which, BTW, is still not one where Obama thinks Wright is “so vile, so despicable”.
SaveFarris, in your own relationships is everyone you’ve ever been friends with either a good person or a vile person? Is there no middle ground? Have you never had someone you liked who subsequently changed, or turned out not to be the person you thought they were?
SaveFarris: And if you read Obama’s book, you’ll see he chose Wright exactly because of the firey sermons that Obama is now disavowing and saying “That’s not the man I knew”.
I haven’t read Obama’s book. Have you? (That’s a rhetorical question. Your credibility on this is near 0 so even if you said you did I’d be inclined to not believe you, or at least to assume you’ve again intentionally misunderstood what he’s said to support your preconceived conclusions.)
Does Obama actually say he joined Wright’s church because of sermons he gave damning America and saying AIDS was a government plot? Because those are the sermons Obama is disagreeing with. Quote a passage from the book (or any other writing or speech of Obama’s) where he says it was those sermons that lead him to choose Wright. Go ahead. We’ll wait.
He chose that church when he was a community organizer. Rev. Wright’s church was big on community organizing. Obama liked what the church was doing with regards to community organizing. That’s the connection. Nothing else.
I have it on good authority that the Rev. Wright once dined at Denny’s and chose lemon meringue pie instead of apple.
I have it on good authority that Rev. Wright dined at the same Denny’s that Louis Farrakhan once drove past, so Obama is clearly the leader of the Nation of Islam.
Oh, and there is no bus. Stop with the bus already.
Rev. Wright’s contention that AIDS was introduced by the government to kill blacks is prima facie false. Everyone knows it was introduced to kill Teh Gay©.
For 40 years the US Government conducted experiments on black men and purposefully let them die. The program was finally stopped not because the government or any official decided it was wrong, but because news was leaked and it be came publicly known. Without that leak it is quite probable that the secret “experiments” would have continued for many more years.
There may not be evidence that the US Government is involved in some way with the spread of AIDS, but it certainly is not inconceivable that they would do something like this.
When the US Government bombed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the military went in. Not to provide support or care, but to observe the effects of radiation on a civilian population. that is the only reason those two cities were targeted.
Those who think that embryonic stem cell research is a slipper slope to eugenics have very short memories.
To be clear before someone twists the point, do I think the US Government planned the AIDS epidemic to attack gays and blacks? No. I do think the response to the epidemic has been incompetent and verging on criminal, but I don’t think it was in any way part of a government plot.
But anyone who says the government wouldn’t do that kind of thing? Refusing to face the facts.
And it’s understandable why someone like Jeremiah Wright, who has had first hand encounters with casual and institutionalized racism, would believe it is possible.