Arnold Schwarzenegger is learning the difference between talking conservative b.s. on the trail versus the actual hard work of governing. That’s why George Bush is such a failure as president, and why conservatives in congress are so much better at showboating than legislating.
During an unusually self-reflective interview with Times editors and reporters, the governor no longer talked like the outsider he portrayed when he campaigned to recall his predecessor from office in 2003.
In that campaign, he labeled many state legislators as inept. Now, he spoke of how it would be a "disaster" for term limits to force some of the same politicians from their offices. He scoffed at the notion that ridding the state of the "waste, fraud and abuse" he railed against in his early days would actually do much to help California’s finances. He no longer insists that the state’s troubled schools can be repaired without spending more.
"I have learned a lot of things where I felt one way before I went into office, and all of a sudden you learn things are not quite this way and you change," he said. "People call it flip-flopping. I would rather flip-flop when I see something is a wrong idea than get stuck with it and stay with it and [keep making] the same mistake."
Now of course the true believers at Redstate don’t like this, but it speaks to the reality behind conservatism.
Conservatism is like the kid who wants ice cream for dinner every night. Sure, it seems great at first, but at the end of the day ice cream every night will lead to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and just general unhealthiness. Liberalism says sure, you can have some ice cream from time to time - but here’s some healthier, more substantial food as well.
Schwarzenegger may be conservative in some areas, but he’s not stupid. And I will admit he has been a better Governor that I thought he would be. (He learned to tone down the rhetoric and actually work with others much, much faster than I thought he would.)
On a side note, Oliver, fuck you for the ice cream analogy. I’ve been on a diet for the past 5 months and ice cream was one of the first things I removed from my diet. Now I have a major craving.
Liberalism says that if you want ice cream, you have a god-given, unalienable right to have ice cream. But we are going to tell you what flavors are good for you and not let you have the bad flavors. Oh, and we’re going to make the rich guy down the street pay for your ice cream.
Campaigning Versus Governing
Compining Versus Guvaning (fixed)
Liberalism says sure, you can have some ice cream from time to time - but here’s some healthier, more substantial food as well.
1. This is the worst analogy I have ever read. Along the lines of what Hedley says, liberalism says that you’re entitled to as much ice cream as you want, whenever you want. It is your “right” to have any flavor that you want, and you don’t even have to work to get it. Being told to work to have to get it is “insensitive.” And it’s ‘free’ in that it is subsidized by taxpayers.
2. California is a text book example of what happens when liberal government runs rampant. Debt brought on by reckless spending, absurdly high taxes, ridiculous real estate prices, a social welfare system in tatters, and a credit rating that teeters on the edge. That’s something to brag about?
Jay, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
1) California has NO DEBT. They can’t. They are forbidden from maintaining a current account deficit as are most states.
2) We also can’t tax in this state due to CONSERVATIVE Prop. 13.
3) The parts of California that are liberal (SF Bay Area and Hollywood) essentially subsidize the parts of the state that are not (Central Valley.) This makes us not unlike the rest of the U.S. where liberals like me subsidize crackers like you.
Debt brought on by reckless spending, absurdly high taxes, ridiculous real estate prices, a social welfare system in tatters, and a credit rating that teeters on the edge.
You’re absolutely right, Jay. It’s a good thing for the rest of the nation that eight years of rampant conservative government has cured all of these ills.
This is the worst analogy I have ever read.
Then don’t take it as an analogy. Using that as a literal difference between conservativism and libralism works as well. After all, vegetables, soy, and Whole Foods are part of the vast liberal fascist conspiracy. Just ask Jonah Goldberg.
2. California is a text book example of what happens when liberal government runs rampant.
Yup, the eighth largest economy in the WORLD. We’re home to the tech industry and the entertainment industry, two of America’s biggest exports. And we also pay more to the federal govt than we get back, supporting all those red welfare states.
Debt brought on by reckless spending, absurdly high taxes, ridiculous real estate prices, a social welfare system in tatters, and a credit rating that teeters on the edge. That’s something to brag about?
You just described Bush’s economic policies and their effects on America. Yup, Jay, keep voting for more borrow-and-spend Republicans. That’s the road to good economic health, like the kind we’re going to be experiencing in about six months.
Jay, you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
Shouldn’t just be everyone’s default signature? We say it so often.
I never cease to be amazed at the wingnut lack of irony. I knew though that they would still trot out that “reckless spending” canard even after eight years of supporting some of the biggest spending increases in history under Bush, not to mention a half-trillion dollar war that isn’t even on the books yet.
They are principle-less hypocritical douches.
Yeah, I was gonna say - you want to use the nation’s hub for technical innovation as an example of bad business? Somebody tell Steve Jobs.
“It is your “right” to have any flavor that you want, and you don’t even have to work to get it. Being told to work to have to get it is “insensitive.” And it’s ‘free’ in that it is subsidized by taxpayers.”
I think the idiocy of this comment, not to mention your gross mischaracterization of what’s wrong with california (thank you for covering that one, z_dura and megazone) pretty much pegs as yet another yahoo moron who gets all his “news” from talk radio. I thought you were a hack, jay. Now i know you’re just another robot.
Wow Jay. You’ve embarrassed yourself yet again. I wouldn’t be surprised if you ran from this thread completely.
Conservatism and ice cream: conservatives say ice cream can be available to everyone, and that eating ice cream is your patriotic duty because by God it’s American made, or at least currently poured into boxes in America but actually made by slave labor in Mexico and shipped up here thanks to CAFTA so the owners of the Ice Cream company can make 10,000 times what their average employee makes. Also, since using 100% pure milk is costly, it’s OK to pump it full of carcinogenic milk substitute and when consumers get cancer conservatism wants it to be nearly impossible and prohibitively expensive to sue the manufacturers. Also, as people realize how fattening and unhealthy carcino Ice cream is, conservatism wants to make it illegal for small business Ice cream manufacturers and frozen yogurt makers that make ice cream using 100% pure healthy milk to advertize that they use yummy natural wholesome milk because one industry funded study that shows there is no direct link between eating carcinogen laden ice cream and living in the tropic of Cancer, effectively counters a library full of studies showing that carcinogen laden milk substitute actually causes cancer.
Meanwhile, Washington ice cream lobbyists convince the President to promote ice cream based birth control programs because eating too much ice cream can make you fat and fat people riddle with cancer are unattractive sexually thus making them unwittingly abstinent. Now hundreds of millions of dollars can be funneled to the ice cream companies every year in exchange for political donations and support.
It’s amazing. A dozen or so comments of ad hominem and not an actual refutation of anything I said aside from z_adura’s bullshit factoids.
California is facing a $14 billion budget deficit due to rampant spending and what is the Democratic solution? Why to raise taxes of course! The Governator wants to cut spending, but the knee-jerk dolts that make up the Democratic majority in the state legislature have already said, “No!” California’s credit rating was in the tank until he was elected and it seems certain that Moody’s will seek to downgrade them again.
California has the highest tax rates in the country and even per capita ranks ninth in the nation. Proposition 13 is the only thing keeping even more people from being taxed out of their homes. Lord knows what kind of real estate taxes people would have to pay if the Sacramento legislators had their way.
And while Hollywood isn’t going anywhere, and big hi-tech firms are staying put, many other businesses are leaving the state and setting up shop elsewhere. Do the research and see. In addition, nearly 1.4 million residents have packed their bags and moved out of California over the last 10 years because it has simply become too expensive to live there.
Now, if anybody has any FACTS to refute any of this, go ahead and provide it. But saying, “What about Bush?!?!” doesn’t make me wrong and it’s pure and simple deflection. Or if you want to just name-call, do that too. Because that’s what the majority of you do.
California pays more in federal taxes than it gets back ($50 billion or so/year). It subsidizes many of the poorer states. How about the federal government kick back more of that Californian tax money? That should solve those budget problems quick.
Also, fact wise, California’s migration problem has slowed in recent years, losing fewer than 100,000 residents per year to other states. At the same time, California maintains a robust population growth rate above the national average.
> Conservatism is like the kid who wants ice cream for dinner every night. Sure, it seems great at first, but at the end of the day ice cream every night will lead to obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and just general unhealthiness. Liberalism says sure, you can have some ice cream from time to time - but here’s some healthier, more substantial food as well.
Wow. This is not kryptonite. This is stupid.
And who are you kidding? You’d eat ice cream 3x a day, if offered.
It’s amazing. A dozen or so comments of ad hominem and not an actual refutation of anything I said aside from z_adura’s bullshit factoids.
Coming from the guy who said this:
Along the lines of what Hedley says, liberalism says that you’re entitled to as much ice cream as you want, whenever you want. It is your “right” to have any flavor that you want, and you don’t even have to work to get it. Being told to work to have to get it is “insensitive.” And it’s ‘free’ in that it is subsidized by taxpayers.
Color me unimpresed
Liberalism says sure, you can have some ice cream…
Sorry. Ice Cream has trans fats so you can’t have any … ever. How about some Frogurt?
“Proposition 13 is the only thing keeping even more people from being taxed out of their homes.”
This is, of course, the same rhetoric that businesses used to get huge tax breaks on their commercial real estate properties when Prop 13 was first on the ballot.
Prop 13 is a big part of California’s problem because it deprives counties of a significant tax base forcing them to turn to the state for block grants to fund basic services.
Amending Prop 13 to exclude commercial properties would go a long towards protecting home owners while returning much needed revenue to local counties. Here’s a quote from a recent LA Times op ed :
here’s more on why Prop 13 and other anti-tax measures in California has created the very problem that Jay would like to blame on liberals who don’t think anyone should ever have to work for anything.
Here’s the crux of it:
Woops that first LA times op ed link shoudl go here. The other op ed at that link makes important points as well.
Sorry. Ice Cream has trans fats so you can’t have any
…no it doesn’t. I just checked the ice cream in my freezer.
How about some Frogurt?
But…the Frogurt’s cursed.
SaveFarris said: “Sorry. Ice Cream has trans fats so you can’t have any … ever. How about some Frogurt?”
I bet you have no fucking clue what trans fat is.
Too bad Frank isn’t around anymore, he knows.
“Ice Cream has trans fats”
Funny, Farris, but wrong.
“Ice Cream has trans fats”
Funny, Farris, but wrong.