Doesn’t the conviction of Jose Padilla today prove, once again, that the existing criminal justice system can work against terrorists? The administration wanted to hold Padilla, a U.S. citizen, as an enemy combatant in the military system - but then when they turned him over to the DOJ they got a trial and a conviction.
The jury in the Jose Padilla terror trial has found the American guilty of conspiracy to support Islamic terrorism overseas.
Padilla was originally arrested on accusations that he planned to set off radioactive “dirty bombs” in the United States. Thursday’s convictions are not related to those accusations, and prosecutors did not present the “dirty bomb” plot to the jury.
The Justice System works? What’d the guy do to merit the potential of life in prison?
The evidence against him was weak and the conspiracy statute he was prosecuted under is an overbroad joke. An Muslim who has ever traveled overseas must be shitting his/her pants.
Throw a guy in front of a scared jury and say Al Qaeda 100 times during closing and you get a conviction. Reminds me of the chances black defendants stood in front of all-white juries in the South.
You could say that about a lot of trials, in my view. What matters, to me, is that he was tried within the confines of our justice system by a jury of peers. You can honestly haggle over the details, fairness, etc. But the key is that the entire case was within the confines of our existing, working, system of legal jurisprudence.
Wasn’t the only reason Padilla was captured was because of information received from interrogating Abu Zubeida, who is currently being held in Guantanamo Bay after being detained by the CIA from 2002-2006?
I think it proves conclusively that Michael Moore is fat.
No, no, hatter. It proves that Robert Byrd was in the Klan!!1!
At least Padilla was able to get some justice. He was found guilty based on the evidence, (pending appeals), which is more than the thousands of other inmates will ever get.
Hell, at least Padilla was even charged with something.
Not to worry, I’m sure that Bush, with all his compassion for over-reaching juries, will commute any sentence handed down.
Right?
Padilla was charged with a crime because the government was forced to charge him with something. Otherwise, he’d still be confined to a Navy brig. He was subjected to 3+ years of extreme solitary confinement, stripped of his personal identity and tortured. This is not part of our system of incarceration or justice, Oliver. Not by a long shot. The fact that the remnants of this guy got a jury trial are not signs of a healthy constitutional democracy.
Look out Quaker! Shark Week!
The only way to combat terrorism is to blow stuff up and kill people.
Putting one guy in jail will not stop terrorism.
Of course blowing stuff up and killing people won’t stop terrorism either, but at least we’ll be - y’know - blowing stuff up and killing people.
You limp-wristed liberals will never understand this.
Wilbur- You are being satirical, right?
Shocking! Oliver Willis only cares about the law, and not about justice. Seriously dude, you could at least try to be a decent human being. Issues that you think reasonable people can “haggle” over are, in fact, the very essence of whether a trial is worth having or whether we should just shoot people in the head and save money on court costs. In the end, under your view, even the most rigged and predetermined trials are just and reasonable. Is it any wonder people lump you and Kevin Drum together so often? Neither of you really seem to be interested in anything but defending the ability of the Us government to abuse it’s citizens.
No, this isn’t some triumph of the system. It is a glaring spotlight on everything that’s wrong with a country that has a 95% conviction rate and no real appeals process anymore.
I’m not really surprised; this is a pretty consistent position for Oliver to take, considering he’s also pro- capital punishment despite the inherent and possibly unfixable flaws in that system.
Define “justice”. I know what the frick the law is, and its clear what the rules are, but more often than not “justice” is this squsihy thing that is invoked when the outcome of a verdict didn’t go the way you want. I don’t know of anyone lumping Drum and myself together, but if he believes that we’ve got rules and that those rules are paramount to our society even when George Bush or someone on the left doesn’t like it, then Kevin is right.
The assertion that we have no appellate system is patently ridiculous. There are few other countries in the modern world with systems of appeal as fully functioning and responsive as ours.
On the whole, it’s probably better that Padilla got convicted (for him). Now that the system has robbed him of his soul and humanity, he really is no longer fit for society.
“I know what the frick the law is, and its clear what the rules are, but more often than not “justice” is this squsihy thing that is invoked when the outcome of a verdict didn’t go the way you want.”
Then let’s talk about the law and the rules.
What part of them celebrates trying and convicting a man who’s been tortured into madness?
I guess the Texas part.
Now, now, Thad…we all know that torture is very narrowly defined as something that leaves a mark of some kind. That’s why waterboarding, or being threatened by dogs, or years of isolation can’t be considered “torture.”
Apparently.
Bush and company knowingly and purposely tortured Padilla way past the breaking point as part of their strategy. They wanted to be sure that the defense lawyers would never be able to put Padilla on the witness stand since he is so mentally ill he might say anything at all. He particularly showed extreme terror at the prospect of being returned to the military base. This was according to the mental health professionals on both sides. He would say anything to avoid going back. This supposed trial of Padilla was a sham. The plain fact is Oliver that you are too young to have experienced what a “trial” and following the rules and making the system “work” was in this country in the 50’s through the 70’s. You have no frame of reference for being on trial with a judge who clearly ignores the facts and the law in order to convict you and make the “system” safe and workable. Appeal you say? Only with lots of money and even then you find that the outcome is a forgone conclusion. You make pronouncements about the system like a fool. Do you realize that the State of Ohio still claims innocence over Kent State? You should spend less time with your mouth open and more time with your ears open listening to those in their 60’s and 70’s about what has happened in the last 60 years in this country. You seem to think that it’s all the past. It is not. It never ended and the powers that be that are around now were direct participants in much of this filthy conduct against democracy and their fellow citizens.
I think it might be time for a remake of Murder in the First.