I wonder how long the right will keep up the pretense that everything went well and still wonder why they’ve lost public confidence and will never get the black vote.
Critically, CREW found that FEMA had created a “Southeast Louisiana Catastrophic Hurricane Plan” (SLCHP), which forecast a range of specific consequences, including:
* New Orleans would be flooded with 14-17 feet of water, the levee system inundated with at least 10 feet of water and the hurricane would move into Mississippi;
* One million people would evacuate, but flooding would trap at least 250-350,000; and
* Each hurricane victim would require a minimum of two Meals Ready to Eat, one gallon of water and eight pounds of ice per day.
The SLCHP included plans to:
* Evacuate residents and position resources pre-hurricane;
* Provide power, water and ice to hurricane victims; and
* Provide short-term shelter and longer-term temporary housing.Nevertheless, despite the comprehensive SLCHP, post-Katrina FEMA documents demonstrate that the plan was never implemented. On August 28, 2005, the day before Katrina hit, FEMA Deputy Director Patrick Rhode sent an email to Deputy Chief of Staff Brooks Altshuler and Michael Heath, Special Assistant to FEMA Director Michael Brown, with the subject line, “copy of New Orleans cat plan” stating, “I never got one – I think Brown got my copy – did you get one?”
I say this in a demographic, sociological sense, not a racial sense, because there will be many exceptions: If most black people vote for Democrats, because they really blame the disaster that was Katrina on the Republicans, they they deserve the Democrats.
With regard to race, I have never felt anything but anger at the Democratic Party for so thoroughly screwing the average black American.
Here come the answers:
1) Frank’s a racist.
2) Civil Rights Act.
3) Nothing since because stopped by Republicans.
Above and beyond “race”, the funny…okay, sad thing about that article Oliver, is that it again highlights this administration’s constant mantra—every time they screw the pooch and are exposed as having ignored common sense or generally available research.
“No one could have predicted… yadda, yadda, yadda…”
“they they deserve the Democrats.”
So does the country at large. The United States deserves a government that works.
C’mon, Oliver. The buses. The buses!
OK. Lets be clear. CREW is not a nonpartisan group. They are lock stock and barrel a left wing Democratic advocacy group. the executive director used to be amember of Re Conyers staff. Anything they say is suspect. Oh andf another member is/was affiliated with Media Matters.
Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington has, naturally, focused mostly on the Republicans since its creation in 2003, and therefore is an evil Liberal conspiracy just like anyone else who dares to criticise anyone on the right, since of course there can be no other explanation for such criticism.
Okay, so that was actually longer.
“Anything they say is suspect.”
So you could point to where they are wrong on this point, right? Otherwise you are committing a logical fallacy.
I’d take this report seriously if they included the fact that the city ignored their evacuation plan as well. Or that after Hurricane Georges, the city vowed never again to use the Superdome as a shelter.
CREW is not a nonpartisan group.
Perhaps not. Unfortunately for you, Dugger, all they have to do to make the Bush administration look incompetent is file an FOIA request and post their own foolish words on the web.
I’d take this report seriously if they included the fact that the city ignored their evacuation plan as well
I’d encourage all Louisiana and New Orleans voters to give that allegation the consideration it is due.
Meanwhile, the rest of us can focus on our own jurisdiction, namely the Federal, which is just what the CREW report focuses on.
If most black people vote for Democrats, because they really blame the disaster that was Katrina on the Republicans…
Invalid premise. This is only one of many, many good reasons why most black people vote for Democrats.
If that were the reason, it would be a reason so bad, that they would deserve the regular screwing they get from the Democrats, who say “Vote for us, and we’ll give you A, B, and C”, and then A, B, and C never get delivered.
There are many, many good reasons to vote for Republicans as well. But many black Americans, just like many white Americans, don’t.
There is no real affinity between the Democrats and black Americans, except tradition.
Who on the right is saying that “everything went well”? Clearly it did not for a multitude of reasons.
All we are saying, at least from my perspective, is that the blame doesn’t just rest with the White House, but rather there is plenty of blame to be shared on the local and state levels as well.
I would certainly hope that this Administration’s non-performance in the Katrina tragedy would be one of the reasons blacks won’t vote for Republicans. The idea of it not being one of the reasons is nonsensical…insane.
Hedley, you may not be saying “everything went well”, but you’re also not saying “the Bush administration showed abysmal incompetence”, which on any objective reading is far closer to being an accurate description of the case.
It may be true that there is “plenty of blame to be shared on the local and state levels”, but the federal culpability is much more disturbing -and important for the nation as a whole to discuss- because the feds’ f*ckups can effect any and every state.
Just once I’d like to see my right-wing brethren honestly address the problems at the federal level instead of immediately shouting “look over there, it’s Naginzilla!”
There are many, many good reasons to vote for Republicans as well. But many black Americans, just like many white Americans, don’t.
The same is increasingly true of Americans of all hues and configurations, and if there is a loving God, then that trend will continue.
Wilbur how about this, “abysmal incompetence was displayed by all levels of government.”
Too much blame sharing for you?
Now God is on the side of the Democrats?
It was my understanding that they were trying to chase Him out of America.
That, Frank, is because you’re completely insane.
Hedley, that’s not what he said. That’s very nearly the opposite of what he said.
The salient point, which seems to have passed you by completely, is this:
“It may be true that there is “plenty of blame to be shared on the local and state levels”, but the federal culpability is much more disturbing -and important for the nation as a whole to discuss- because the feds’ f*ckups can effect any and every state.”
because the feds’ f*ckups can effect any and every state.”
Like Mississippi and Alabama, which are already back on their feet?
Like Mississippi and Alabama, which are already back on their feet?
…perhaps, at least in part, because they never had to deal with a problem the size of New Orleans to begin with. Ya think?
Hedley, in the spirit of compromise, how about “abysmal incompetence was displayed by all levels of government, but the thing that America as a whole has to address most urgently is the incompetence at the federal level”
That work for you?
It was my understanding that they were trying to chase Him out of America.
Try again, Frank. Even Bill O’Reilly is starting to shy away from smears as mindless at that.
No, they’re not. They just have a Republican Governor.
Unless “on their feet” means “alligators wandering around what used to be the suburbs while people attempt to keep some kind of community going in what basically amounts to shanties, and the Bush administration claps Barbour loud enough to drown out their sobbing“. I guess that is what you meant, yes.
Had Nagin & Blanco done their jobs and evacuated their cities earlier (and had the corrupt levee boards not been so corrupt), the size of the problem in New Orleans wouldn’t have been the size it is to begin with.
We can play this all day…
And you will always be right in your head, and nowhere else. So let’s not even bother.
Salad, why don’t you fuck off and die, there’s a good chap.
Had Nagin & Blanco done their jobs and evacuated their cities earlier (and had the corrupt levee boards not been so corrupt), the size of the problem in New Orleans wouldn’t have been the size it is to begin with.
the only thing that would have accomplished is less people would have died (maybe). It would have had absolutely no effect on the destruction of the 9th ward by flood waters, nor the clean up afterwards, which is kind of what folks here are driving at. The federal response to the disaster was lacking. Sri Lanka got federal aid after the Tsunami before New Orleans.
I can just picture Salad in his mom’s basement, blowing bong hits with his friends and snickering maniacally while posting this stuff.
As Tom Tomorrow put it at the time:
“I don’t care if more “should” have been done by Mayor Nagin. I don’t care if the entire city of New Orleans was not only unprepared, but actually so staggeringly drunk that they didn’t even know a hurricane was on the way. I’m not interested in blaming the victims, or discussing why they deserved what they got. What I do want to know is, why was the federal government of the United States, which has theoretically been preparing for a catastrophic event of this scale for the past four years, utterly unprepared to respond in a timely manner to a humanitarian crisis of this magnitude? Why did babies have to die waiting for help to arrive? That’s the only relevant question–the rest of it is just Karl Rove talking points bouncing around the echo chamber.”
Address it.
I meant like a normal sane person.
It would have had absolutely no effect on the destruction of the 9th ward by flood waters, nor the clean up afterwards
You’re telling me that levee boards spending money on levee maintenance instead of junketts and political favors wouldn’t have had any effect on the levees’ performance during the storm?!?
Reading Comprehension: it’s fun-damental!!!
Yes, that’s what I’m telling you, because the levees didn’t break during the storm. And even if I concede that you are correct and the levee board was skimming money, how would evacuating the city have helped with that?
Of course, the levee board is overseen by the Army corps of Engineers, isn’t it? Isn’t that a….whaddya call it?.. Federal entity?
“Hey !! are you looking through my computer somehow. Creepy. Gotta run Mom made P&J (with the crust cut off !!) On Wonder Bread, natch.”
I’m so sorry to Frank for once thinking you were the same person.
Oh no, Clem, I make you look dumb; he makes you look ridiculous!
“Well, so what if Bush screwed up, Nagin screwed up too!”
Republican leadership: oxymoron or fantasy?
Frank, you make no one look dumb but yourself. I pity your children.
Mike: I pity a person who could say that to someone he doesn’t know.
Is there no limit to the lack of taste of half the posters on this blog?
Jeebus.
If that were the reason, it would be a reason so bad, that they would deserve the regular screwing they get from the Democrats, who say “Vote for us, and we’ll give you A, B, and C”, and then A, B, and C never get delivered.
No, you’re thinking of the religious right.
It was my understanding that they were trying to chase Him out of America.
A. You mispelled “Her”.
B. Just because Dems don’t like the idea of insane nutjobs like you murdering homosexuals doesn’t mean we hate God.
‘Nawlins was a pit before Katrina and billions of dollars later is still a pit.
Give it to Mexico.
Translation: “I hate America.”
Those damned negros are too stupid to know what’s good for them. They should vote Republican because we’re their betters and know what’s best for them better than they do. Also, if they don’t, they’re gonna get lynched…
…
…by the Democrats. Yeah, that’s it.
Keep your thoughts to yourself, or else don’t put my name on them.
Hey Shorter Frank, are you related to Frank Shorter at all?
“Is there no limit to the lack of taste of half the posters on this blog?”
And you fit right in. In fact, you bring out this nastiness in other poeple.
Then again, that’s your goal.
In fact, you bring out this nastiness in other people.
Then again, that’s your goal.
“I couldn’t control myself, your Honor; he kept throwing his face at my fist!”
Wilbur: May be. I was always fast for short distances.
Nimord wrote,
“What I do want to know is, why was the federal government of the United States, which has theoretically been preparing for a catastrophic event of this scale for the past four years, utterly unprepared to respond in a timely manner to a humanitarian crisis of this magnitude? Why did babies have to die waiting for help to arrive?”
Reading the CREW press release, it is difficult to address any of these points becasue the CREW press release provides absolutely no details regarding the mechanism that would:
* Evacuate residents and position resources pre-hurricane;
* Provide power, water and ice to hurricane victims; and
* Provide short-term shelter and longer-term temporary housing.
Who was supposed to do these things? Dare I suggest that at least the first item could only have been done by local authorities?
Read FEMA’s charter again. They are a disaster RESPONSE agency. Yes, I know that some of their responsibilities have been changed re: homeland security, but their primary function is to assist victims AFTER a disaster has struck.
It is not, nor has it ever been, the responsibility of FEMA to stockpile millions of tons of food, drinking water and ice (how do you stockpile ice?) around the country in anticipation of a disaster.
Where would you store it? How do you move thousands of tons of supplies in the 24 hours or less that you would have before a certain hurricane track was established, and the actual landfall of the storm?
Criticize FEMA all you want — there is certainly plenty to complain about — but I really wish people would keep their mouths shut about things that are logistically impossible. Either that, or offer a solution to the kinds of problems I have just outlined.
Good post Mike.
I really wish people would keep their mouths shut about things that are logistically impossible. Either that, or offer a solution to the kinds of problems I have just outlined.
Sure. The fact remains–FEMA prepared a plan for these exact circumstances. Whether the plan was feasible or not, they didn’t just fail to implement it, the people responsible didn’t even have it in their hands.
Heck of a job!
Me: “In fact, you bring out this nastiness in other people.
Then again, that’s your goal.”
Frank: “‘I couldn’t control myself, your Honor; he kept throwing his face at my fist!’”
You keep believing you’re the victim here. There’s a reason why everyone you argue with hates you, you are worth hating.
Reading the comments here it’s obvious that the only one worthy of criticism is FEMA (and by direct extension, the Bush administration).
Why acknowledge the failure of the Louisiana leadership (Democrats) at the city, county and state level when you can safely criticize the leadership (Republican) at the federal level? And by not holding them accountable, they have no pressure to make any changes or otherwise prepare for the NEXT hurricane or other natural disaster.
Politics trump public safety.
And, Clem, you keep blaming me for your actions.
You say “I believe I’m the victim.” Is that different from saying, “You people say bad things to me and about me?”
That’s the question here. I am saying what you are doing. You are characterizing it, as if something else is happening, hence the ridiculous defense, “Your Honor, he kept throwing his face at my fist.”
There are practically an infinite number of possible responses to any statement I might make. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN THE WORLD, I can be responsible for your unique choice.
That doesn’t make me a victim, a word I’ve never used to describe myself, but in does make a you a minimizer, a word used in the field of abusive behavior, to describe a person, who either pretends he is actually doing little or no harm, when it is the “wrongness” that is at issue; or a person who confuses his reaction to another person’s behavior with his / her own behavior as a cause of his / her action (sound familiar?).
You either know what you are doing is wrong, but you do it anyway; or (scarier) you don’t that what you are doing is wrong.
But stop playing around with me. You’re a mean, spiteful man with a cruel streak. No one here has the integrity or guts to intervene. But you’re not getting applauded, are you?
“And, Clem, you keep blaming me for your actions.”
I’m not, Frank, cause you’re not the victim.
“There are practically an infinite number of possible responses to any statement I might make. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY IN THE WORLD, I can be responsible for your unique choice.”
No Frank, there’s a very limited number of ways to respond to you, almost all of them are abusive. This is not a fluke as it is your goal. Your goal here is to stir up trouble and get attention any way you can, the more negative the better.
“But stop playing around with me. You’re a mean, spiteful man with a cruel streak. No one here has the integrity or guts to intervene. But you’re not getting applauded, are you?”
Do you want to poll the people here and find out what they think? Are you really that deluded?
Your goal here is to stir up trouble and get attention any way you can, the more negative the better.
That is WAY different from “You make me abuse you.”
Even you couldn’t believe that bullshit.
Do you want to poll the people here and find out what they think?
YEP.
Here are the questions:
Is C.S.Strowbridge following Frank around the blog, even to the point of answering pointed questions not addressed to him?”
How often has C.S. Strowbridge addressed comments to Frank that were not rife with curses, epithets and insults, no matter what Frank said?
Has Frank ever denied his responsibility for the statements he has made to others on this blog?
Has C.S. Strowbridge once ever accepted responsibility for statements he has mad to any one on this blog?
Anyone, everyone on this blog is free to answer, at C.S. Strowbridge’s request.
You wanted a poll, you got a poll.
Me: “Your goal here is to stir up trouble and get attention any way you can, the more negative the better.”
Frank: “That is WAY different from “You make me abuse you.”
Even you couldn’t believe that bullshit.”
You want people to abuse you.
So you drive people to abuse you.
Me: “Do you want to poll the people here and find out what they think?”
Frank: “YEP.
Here are the questions:”
Wow. Those are some loaded questions. Did you really think I’d be stupid enough to accept those?
How about this poll?
Is Frankie an @ss? YES
Is Frankie mentally ill? YES
Does Frankie project his faults and general douchebaggery on others? YES
Does Frankie have a persecution complex? YES
Is CSS an idiot for pointing this out? NO
As for Frankie’s questions:
Is C.S.Strowbridge following Frankie around the blog, even to the point of answering pointed questions not addressed to him?”
NO, Frankie is on virtually every thread. It would be impossible not to post on his threads.
How often has C.S. Strowbridge addressed comments to Frankie that were not rife with curses, epithets and insults, no matter what Frankie said?
Not enough.
Has Frankie ever denied his responsibility for the statements he has made to others on this blog?
YES.
Has C.S. Strowbridge once ever accepted responsibility for statements he has mad to any one on this blog?
uh, yes. I don’t really see where he’s made any that he should be ashamed of. Frankie? Not so much.
What the hell? I’ll answer the questions as well.
“Here are the questions:
Is C.S.Strowbridge following Frank around the blog, even to the point of answering pointed questions not addressed to him?”
On the other hand, Frank and I are in nearly every thread so there is obviously a large crossover between our posts.
I’s also like to point out a flaw in this question. “…even to the point of answering pointed questions not addressed to him.” Of course this happens. if it didn’t, there would be no discussion here cause none could start. Unless you expect people to call out other posters in the initial post of each thread. Which you would probably interpret as an attack.
I object to the term, ‘curse’ as it implies something magical. Naughty words are just that, words. They have no power other than what the reader imbues them with.
I also object to the final part of the question, “no matter what Frankie said.” Since the animosity between us is long and heated, you have to take the full history into account and not just the post being replied to.
That said, I generally use insult, profanity, etc. Frank shouldn’t feel special when I call him a fucking retard, especially if he’s said something fucking retarded.
If Frank doesn’t want to be insulted, he should try being less insulting.
Yes. He’s started fights and pretended he didn’t. The Safe @ Home thread is a perfect example of that.
Again, the answer is yes. I’ve taken responsibility for my part in the flame war. Just not in a way that Frank would like.
To use an analogy…
Frank: I dare you to eat this donut.
Me: Okay. [Eats donut]
Frank: How could you eat my donut? You bastard.
Frank intentionally tries to antagonize people and get them to response in a negative fashion. We’ve seen him do this several times to practically ever new poster that comes here and debates with him. He wants the attention. He wants the negative attention.
It is important to point out at this point, the fact that I call him a fucking retard when he says something less than intelligent is all me. Others may politely disagree, or call it something less un-P.C., but I see no reason to treat him with dignity, cause he doesn’t extend that that courtesy.
Also, as I’ve pointed out in the past, I’m an asshole who likes to insult people. That’s just who I am and I’m not going to apologize for it.
Anyone else?
Forgot to close the ordered list.
Opps.