On the left we regularly bitch and moan about the Democrats not listening to the base, and though that has gotten better since the election of Howard Dean, there are still moments of friction. Still, I am amazed by how the right just spits in the face of their base - the combined effort of talk radio, rightie blogs, and more leads to zip.
The Senate voted Tuesday to jump-start a stalled immigration measure to legalize millions of unlawful immigrants.
President Bush said the bill offered a “historic opportunity for Congress to act,” and appeared optimistic about its passage by week’s end.
The pivotal test-vote was 64-35 to revive the divisive legislation. It still faces formidable obstacles in the Senate, including bitter opposition by GOP conservatives and attempts by some waverers in both parties to revise its key elements.
Supporters needed 60 votes to scale procedural hurdles and return to the bill. A similar test-vote earlier this month found just 45 supporters, only seven of them Republicans. This time, 24 Republicans joined 39 Democrats and independent Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut, to back moving ahead with the bill. Opposing the move were 25 Republicans, nine Democrats and independent Sen. Bernard Sanders of Vermont.
The support increased. Increased.
Maybe support went up because the more they talk, the more it becomes clear that the “base” has no idea what it’s talking about.
Example? You betcha!
Here’s RedState’s Mr. Bluey, giving just one of his “10 flaws in the immigration bill”:
Well, duh!
Let’s see, Mr. Bluey. People sneak into the country why? To get jobs! So what’s the most obvious way to get them to stop? Don’t let them get jobs!
Of course, Mr. Bluey finds it outrageous (as he demonstrates by firing up the RedState Outrage Beacon) that the eligibility check would include people who don’t, you know, look like they’re illegal.
Any program designed to identify people who are in the country illegally and prevent them from getting hired is going to involve “federal intrusion” into the workplace.
Can’t have it both ways, boys.
A lot of the Republicans, and some Democrats as well (depending on the states they represent) will pay a heavy price for supporting this bill. There are a lot of us that have already decided:
1. If you support this bill, we will oppose you or work for your defeat, first in the primaries and then if necessary in the general election.
It doesn’t matter what else you purport to support or oppose, or what party to which your opponent or you belongs.
2. If you oppose this bill, we will support you regardless of your stands on any other issue or to which party you or your opponent belong.
The reason we feel this way is due to the fact that those of our Senators and “Representatives” who support this bill are playing “Russian Roulette” with our country’s future.
No matter how it turns out, if this bill is passed, the effects will not only be long term, but very likely irreversible. That is our problem with it.
No other issue, or proposed law or bill, no matter how good or how bad, stands to have as permanent and irreversible an effect on the country as this one.
“If you support this bill, we will oppose you or work for your defeat”
Who’s this, “we”, you talk about?
This is not a good bill, but the reason there’s so much illegal immigration is because there’s a massive demand on both sides of the border and the legal immigration has been limited to such a large degree.
Law of supply and demand tells you that this situation won’t work. You need to increase legal immigration if you want to cut down on illegal immigration.
This is why most people support a pathway to citizenship.
2. If you oppose this bill, we will support you regardless of your stands on any other issue or to which party you or your opponent belong.
Awesome! I oppose this bill, but support abortion-on-demand (maybe a kiosk at the mall), embryonic stem cell research (harvested from the afore-mentioned abortions. Hey! Win-win!), and Gay Marriage for everyone (though that may cut down on the supply of aborted fetuses somewhat).
Still support me?
The Unknown Candidate-Yeppers, I sure do. If you oppose this bill, I don’t give a shit what else you support or oppose, I’m with you all the way.
By the way, it might interest you to know that I am also in favor of embryonic stem cell research and gay marriage. I don’t favor so-called “gay civil unions”, I support gay marriage, period.
Is that “liberal” enough for you? I am even moderately pro-choice when it comes to abortion, though I am in favor of some limitations.
Obviously you think only a far right wing conservative wing-nut is against this immigration policy, huh?
Well, guess what? You would be wrong.
Color me corrected, then.
So, why are you so adamant about this bill?
I agree with Stowbridge.
“Obviously you think only a far right wing conservative wing-nut is against this immigration policy, huh?”
No, I think most people are. It’s a bad bill with serious problems.
It might be the best we get for a couple years, at least till we have a new political dynamic in place.
Pathway to Citizenship?
Wow- CS is channeling George W. Bush. Duros too?
So this bill will do the trick? It will solve things once and for all? Doubt it.
And isn’t there already a “pathway to citizenship” in our current immigration laws?
With the current system backlogged with 300,000 applications and over 100,000 hearing jumpers out there, how on earth is this new “pathway” going to be administered for the 12-20 million estimated illegals already in the country and the millions more who are rushing for the border and paying for fake documents to make it look like they’ve been her for a while?
It’s just so odd to me that with only 23% support from R’s and 24% support from D’s and roughly 70% of the American public against this administrative nightmare of a bill, that the Senate is still trying to jam this pig through the keyhole.
Oh well- Looks like Pelosi and company is going to be taking her sweet time on this one in the house. (I guess with Congress being elected every two years, they are the ones who need to be more cautious on this one.)
Unknown Candidate-It is like I said before. The effects of this bill are not only long term, they will be almost totally irreversible in their effects.
If their effects are all good-which is of course extremely unlikely-or if their impact is somewhat mixed-probably the best case scenario-or if their impact is for the most part hugely negative-which is quite possible-the fact remains, if it is passed, there is no turning back. Whatever the result we are stuck with it.
Furthermore, those of us who are against it feel that our concerns are being ignored, at best, becasue our elected “representatives” who support this bill are bound and determined to shove it down the American peoples throat regardless of our feelings and concerns, for a variety of reasons-
1. Access to what amounts to an unlimited amount of what is tantamount to near slave labor, for the benefit of their big business, big money contributors.
2. The hopes of driving down workers wages across the board.
3. Votes from a new, as of now relatively untapped, and potentially overpowering political force.
4. In some cases, more fodder for not only Big Business, but for the military, and for the Catholic Church, who would become an ever more malignant influence the more political power, and social influence, they would hope to gain by this measure.
There are other reasons as well that you might not find as valid, from the conservative angle, in addition probably to the listed number three.
But suffice it to say that this measure, while it has bi-partisan support in Congress, and likewise perhaps by much of the public, has a great deal of bi-partisan opposition as well.
It’s more than just a liberal versus conservative issue, in other words.
“No other issue, or proposed law or bill, no matter how good or how bad, stands to have as permanent and irreversible an effect on the country as this one.”
Since all those dead bodies in Iraq are going to resurrect, and all the maimed, crippled, blinded, and brain damaged are going to be healed, and we will all dance and sing together. In English.
“Pathway to Citizenship?”
Yep.
“So this bill will do the trick? It will solve things once and for all? Doubt it.”
Nope. This is a bad bill, but not because of the ‘amnesty’ aspect.
“With the current system backlogged”
Which is why there are so many illegals. You can put a man on the moon, you can figure out how to streamline immigration. In fact, the immigration backlog is intentional because so many people don’t want more immigrants into the States, especially ones from Mexico.
(Just to be clear, I’m not calling you racist, but there are plenty on your side that are.)
“It’s just so odd to me that with only 23% support from R’s and 24% support from D’s and roughly 70% of the American public against this administrative nightmare of a bill, that the Senate is still trying to jam this pig through the keyhole.”
You have to understand, half that 70% wants more immigration, the other half wants less, or none. This bill is a balance between those two extremes… which is probably why it sucks soooooo much ass.
Personal I think they should do what’s best for the nation and fuck the polls.
Illegal immigration is bad because you have no control who gets through. The only way to stop it is to increase legal immigration to the point where illegal immigration is not longer a better option for foreigners wanting to come to the States.
It’s like an epidemic: another missed call by the host.
“the combined effort of talk radio, rightie blogs, and more leads to zip.”
Care to revise that line today?
“the combined effort of talk radio, rightie blogs, and more leads to zip.”
“Care to revise that line today?”
Why would he? It did come close this time, didn’t it?
This means all the bluster from the blogs and talk radio had no net impact for their side. They didn’t convince anyone who voted yes last time to vote no this time. So how could it possibly be a victory?
“It’s like an epidemic: another missed call by the host.”
Did Oliver actually say the bill would pass? Cause I don’t see that prediction here.
“Why would he? It did come close this time, didn’t it?”
Closer. I meant closer.
Sorry for the typo.
The Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) the conscience of the congress as they call themselves were let off the hook with the senate’s decision to not close cloture. Yet, the CBC in its opinion paper on immigration supports this bill!
WTF. If you want to see how immigration as worked in the US, take a visit to Miami, Florida.
African-Americans cannot get jobs in this city, corruption is rampant, opportunities are non-existent, and if you don’t speak Spanish it is used as a weapon by those who do.
People who are not citizens have voter registration cards and vote regularly for their scam artist of the moment. Hospitals are full, social service agencies are screaming for help, yet we can’t take care of our own citizens who if they mutter one word about their needs not being met are called racist.
People who came to this country on the backs and sacrifices of African-Americans who actually marched and died for the civil rights they now enjoy to a greater extent than we do. The laws that were designed to help end the imbalance in jobs, housing, education, etc. have been turned on their ear to benefit people who did not fight for them, who then turn around and have the audacity to tell African-Americans we must work for what we want!
The Cuban Adjustment Refugee Adjustment Act has been around for 40+ plus years, just about as long as the civil rights laws that partially enabled African-Americans to take advantage of their citizenship rights.
This act enables these folks to have access to social security, housing subsidies, food stamps, health care, etc.
And they are not citizens, but will tell you in an arrogant heartbeat how they are the most successful hispanic group in the US, no-kidding!
Now when somebody can dig up in history books the Slavery Adjustment Act that lasted for more than 40 years, that another group of people fought for their right to use these laws to their benefit without having to actually fight, will somebody please tell the CBC to shut the f**K up!
Your irrelevance is breathtaking in its desire to be all things to all people. Take care of the people who elected you, open your mouths and let the true powers that be know that until the African-American employment rate is in single digits nationally, blacks have been access to educational opportunities, and health care options, you can’t support a bill that will bring other people into this country to take what little so many of them sacrified for to be marginalized by people who could give less than a damn about you in the first place.