Ok, assume that Danny Glover hasn’t been running around kissy-face with people like Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro, pretend that didn’t happen. What, if any, ground is to be gained for John Edwards hanging around with the star of Operation Dumbo Drop?
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Say what you want to about Chavez, but he has indisputably been better for his country and the rest of Latin America than Bush has been for this country and the rest of the world. Increased literacy, better education for all, alleviation of hunger and malnutrition and improved housing for working and poor(usually the same thing) Venezulans is more than our present White House denizen could do in more than ten of his life times.
Well, if you’re just willing to give up your rights. Come on.
“Well, if you’re just willing to give up your rights. Come on.”
Ahem. I might remind you of the right of Habeas Corpus, formerly extant in these United States?
FB
The Democrats are scrambling to match the celebrity star power of Hollywood Fred Thompson.
What rights Oliver? Remember the coup that overthrew Chavez for three days? After meeting with the US ambassador in an attempt to buy legitimacy, the new ruler threw out the constitution, the congress and the supreme court.
What, if any, ground is to be gained for John Edwards hanging around with the star of Operation Dumbo Drop?
Training for possibly facing the former star of Baby’s Day Out and Iron Eagle III?
Look, Chavez is a thug and in the mold of the anti-Democratic strongman who silences all opposition. I don’t care how left-wing his politics are you guys need to acknowledge that. He ain’t a good guy. Neither were the coup plotters who tried to overthrow him and we looked horrible when we essentially cheered them on.
And also, what August said.
“Look, Chavez is a thug and in the mold of the anti-Democratic strongman who silences all opposition.”
…
“Neither were the coup plotters who tried to overthrow him and we looked horrible when we essentially cheered them on.”
I think he is a strong-man and a thug who tries to silence his opposition because they tried to kill him.
Take the recent debate over the TV station that went off the air there. A lot of people are attacking Chavez for silencing a critic. However, he didn’t kill their licence, he just didn’t renew it. And you also have to remember, the people running this station did cheer on the coup / assassination attempt of Chavez. If he was really as bad as some of the people say he is, he would have had the management arrested and jailed after that. Attacking him for not helping the people who wish to see him dead is insanity.
On the other hand, he should have just let someone else take over the station instead of turning it into a left-wing propaganda piece.
To recap…
Chavez is not a good guy, but he is not as bad as a lot of people make him out to be.
He’s certainly not as bad as GWB.
OW, I’m kinda surprised by this post. Glover is a huge activist in this country and he and Edwards went to Unite Here and SEIU rallies all of the country.
Chavez ain’t a good guy, but he was - as far as anyone can tell after investigating it for months - genuinely democratically elected.
Besides, if he was a right-wing gitface rather than a left-wing gitface he’d be our special friend and staunch ally and Bush would jump to his defence at every opportunity (cf Pinochet, Augusto).
So yeah, South America’s seen worse than this douchebag.
However, he didn’t kill their licence, he just didn’t renew it.
How honorable for you to give him the benefit of the doubt. Coming from the same crowd that screams “Bush killed Kyoto” and “Bush lied about Iraq”, it’s highly ironic to boot.
The thing there is:
a) Bush actually and demonstrably did do those things and only a fool would claim otherwise.
b) That quote you pulled? Turns out, in context, CSS wasn’t defending Chavez for doing so, just pointing out that he didn’t go as far as some people might think he did, given that he’s being promoted as an evil totalitarian dictator bent on the destruction of our very way of life. He still condemned him for what he did do. I know, I know. Context is for pussies.
c) We’re aware that Chavez, while technically occupying the same general space on the political spectrum as ourselves (although basically on the other side of the room to most of us, even good ol’ Bevanite me) is not a good man or a good leader. Whereas certain persons on the right can’t reconcile the two concepts at all. We call those 28 percenters.
Sorry Mr. Gently, but but both Kyoto and faulty intelligence were messes left by the previous administration and only a “reality based” hyperpartisan would try to claim otherwise.
C) I appreciate your willingness to distance yourself from Mr. Chavez. Unfortunatetly, it’s been a habit of folks on your side of the aisle to tar-and-feather the opposition with the nuts on our side. Why is it okay for libs to paint all conservatives as clinic-bombing anarchists who want to exterminate other races, but it’s unfair for conservatives to compare liberals to Chavez et.al?
A little consistency is all I’m asking for. Thanks.
“faulty intelligence were messes left by the previous administration and only a “reality based” hyperpartisan would try to claim otherwise.”
It wasn’t faulty intelligence. The majority of experts did not believe Iraq had WMD, nor did they think Saddam had a operational relationship with Al Qaeda.
Do I need to post the links, again?
“Unfortunatetly, it’s been a habit of folks on your side of the aisle to tar-and-feather the opposition with the nuts on our side.”
Fucking bullshit. This is a complete lie. The right do that.
For example:
How many people used Churchill Ward to attack the left? And I’m not talking about blog wars here, I’m talking about people who have TV shows.
How many times were Jerry Falwell’s bigoted words used against the right? And again, I want to see examples of people on TV doing it, not blogs.
“A little consistency is all I’m asking for. ”
This coming from farris? Wow. The irony meter just broke. By the way CSS it’s Ward Churchill, not Churchill Ward. You should know that, considering that he represents all of our views and speaks for all of us.
Everything bad is not Clinton’s fault, Farris. You can’t keep saying that before your brain explodes. Not that I want to stop you, but you probably should know that.
I admit that Clinton fucked up with Kyoto before Bush did. But you have to be pretty stupid or pretty crazy to claim he didn’t lie about Iraq.
Everything bad is not Clinton’s fault, Farris.
100% Correct, though I’ve never claimed it so this is all non-sequitor. I am more than willing to give him credit for the good things he did (NAFTA/GAAT, stopping Millenium attacks, casually dropping Kyoto) that didn’t require him to be pulled kicking & screaming by Gingrich & Co. (welfare reform, lowering capital gains taxes).
Can you make the same statement, that Everything bad isn’t Bush’s fault?
Yes. Some bad things are other people’s fault. Although a whole fuckload of things that no-one on your side wants to admit to (or when you do, you blame Clinton, as I said) are in fact entirely down to what has been an unusually incompetent and damaging administration.
Since you think that dropping the Kyoto Protocol altogether was in some way a good thing, however, it is questionable whether such a rational and careful definition of terms is worth the effort in your case.