George Bush is never going to back down on this issue, it’s too much for his ego ever to admit a mistake or misstep. If Americans have to stay in Iraq forever, so be it.
President Bush envisions a long-term U.S. troop presence in Iraq similar to the one in South Korea where American forces have helped keep an uneasy peace for more than 50 years, the White House said Wednesday.
There’s also the attempt to play off our occupation of Iraq as the same as continued U.S. presence at the South Korean border, Europe, etc. But in none of those situations is there the clear and present daily danger of getting blown up. Sure, there’s always the chance Kim Jong-Il will try something, but there aren’t 150,000 troops as sitting ducks to get picked off by insurgents, Sunni militants, Shia militants, or plugged in the back by a member of the Iraqi army or police.
George aside, it’s fairly obvious that “forever” will translate into “until America elects a Democrat”.
This can’t make life easier for the Iraqi government, once the news filters back to the Iraqi populace. More public pressure there for the government to ask us to leave.
I don’t think this has sunk in here yet, either. If and when it does, look out.
Surely Dugger got a hard on reading the headline for this thread!
Well, Dugger wouldn’t want the troops in harm’s way, which they would be if we brought them back to the much more dangerous Los Angeles.
Conservatives don’t want us to announce a withdrawal because that would only inflame the insurgency. Announcing that we plan to stay in Iraq forever does what exactly? Demoralize them and make them want to quit?
Um, yeah right.
Maybe the Iraqis need to think about a few things:
How much benefit are we getting versus our feeling about having them here?
Who should make the decision? The US, the Parliament, or a referendum?
Who will deal with the various warring parties, if the Americans leave, and they don’t?
We (the Americans) have to be determined to accept their decisions.
oh, the iraqis are getting much benefit out of us being there. Especially the dead ones …
Looks like forever may not be too far off.
Oh indeed. It’s Mission Accomplished time again, Frank. What an idiot.
Mr. Pipeline I: I said it was a question the Iraqis have to ask. I don’t think they care too much what you think.
Mr.Pipeline II: I said “not too far off”, and that’s all.
Can’t you even post your fake name when you call me an idiot?
What a punk.
Frank, for future reference, when the names don’t show up, it’ll probably be due to an HTML error, not a deliberate attempt to annoy you.
Bugger off, yob!
oh no, it’s a deliberate attempt to annoy him.
But more to the point, why on earth would a story about Baghdad residents “rising up” against al-qaida presage anything except a continuation of the chaos we’ve been seeing for four years? Iraq is in a civil war and al-qaida is only a small fraction of the sectarian forces lined up to kill one another there. Fighting in the streets is just that, fighting in the streets which in anyone’s mind, except apparently crazed right wingers = total chaos.
Total chaos is not a sign of improvement, frank, not by a long shot.
When will you gus face the fact that nothing but withdrawal will satisfy you — even victory?
“Bugger off, yob”? What is this, Chelsea circa 1976?
Alright, so sometimes it’s a deliberate attempt to annoy you, but quite often it’s a genuine accident (I did it a couple of times) so could you at least give the benefit of the doubt?
Well, it started out as an accident but then i saw how much it annoys frank and so, voila …
But frank naturally nothing but total withdrawal would satisfy me. I’m opposed to the war and think that our staying there is making the world a more dangerous place. But that’s such a total non-sequitor response on your part isn’t it?
Could you actually address the question of why you think the story you linked to presages anything other than the continuation of violence and chaos in iraq?
“When will you gus face the fact that nothing but withdrawal will satisfy you”
Faced it ages ago, although of course if someone would explain what “victory” would entail I might find that more appealing. No-one ever has though. Ever. In all this time.
And don’t call me Gus.
residents rose up against al-Qaida and called for U.S. military help to end random gunfire that forced people to huddle indoors and threats that kept students from final exams, a member of the district council said.
This could either be just plain old random violence — you know, the kind that “those Ay - rab guys do all the time” (you can say that if you’re a liberal, but not if you’re a conservative — then it’s racist); OR, it’s a sign that the locals are finally fed up with A - Q.
On another thread, I said, “The Iraqis have to ask themselves, ‘What we will do, when the Americans leave’?”.
I guess they’re thinking about it.
Nimrod Gently:: Did you just ask me to give you the benefit of the doubt?
Go lie down with a cold towel on your head ’til that goes away.
Frank do you really think that this is something new? Here’s a story you might have missed from March 2005 over two years go:
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/331651
That story from two years ago reads almost exactly like the story you linked to: just a collection of random, violent incidents.
You think you know what’s going on, don’t you? You don’t. You haven’t a clue.
Here’s a story from Iraq the Model
posted january 2006
Hmm. What happened in Anbar just 8 months
later?
And what about Anbar
on May 30?
Why it’s the same old story. Imagine that. Oh but wait, here’s an even more recent story, from
today:
So again, it’s all bullshit. Utter bullshit from a right wing that refuses to accept reality. Wake the fuck up frank. You don’t know shit …
“you know, the kind that “those Ay - rab guys do all the time” (you can say that if you’re a liberal, but not if you’re a conservative — then it’s racist);”
Prove it. Prove Liberals are saying that.
Either that or admit you are just projecting.
Frank has claimed in the past that he merely repeats what HE believes others are thinking. LoL!
And he still can’t even see the pleas for some kind of explanation as to what “victory” means.
I can’t do all the things you request (demand?) at once.
I think you should all get a grip. Have a meeting. Decide who’s going first, etc.
I think it was Mr. Pipeline — who has related 4 or 5 incidents that indicate that there is some popular resistance to A Q. He calls it “bullshit”. Well, that’s that.
I’ll get to the others later. Meanwhile, take a number.
Wrong frank. What I’m saying is that you’re suggestion that “popular resistance” to AQ in Iraq is a sign that “forever may not be too far off” or that Iraqis “are finally fed up with A - Q” is bullshit. In other words, is is happening? Yes. Does it mean anything? No. The violence and chaos and AQ attacks continue apace.
So again, it isn’t the facts I’m disputing, it’s your assessment of them which is, on its face. ridiculous, ideologically-driven boosterism of the worst sort.
and BTW that’s Mr.
to you.
Shorter Frank: why does everyone pick on poor, POOR me? I never say anything to prompt this …
Squirrel: But you do. Go back to the park.
Wrong, pipeline. I meant that “Does it mean anything? No” was bullshit.
Every one of those incidents o
is one more than before. They are getting closer together in time, as well.
“Every one of those incidents is one more than before. They are getting closer together in time, as well.”
You are delusional. Closer together in time? Really? How the fuck would you know? There’s no pattern here, Frank. Just a series of violent actions and responses that have so far added up to total chaos.
I remember Michelle Malkin mentioned the March 2005 incident on her blog back then and she was crowing that we were reaching the tipping point in Iraq. Well, it’s been a mighty long tipping point.
More “bullshit”:
Lebanese tanks and armored vehicles battled their way into the outer neighborhoods of a Palestinian refugee camp Friday in some of the heaviest fighting since violence broke out between the military and al-Qaida-inspired militants nearly two weeks ago.
And the “bullshit” just keeps on coming.
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) - At least one U.S. warship bombarded a remote, mountainous village in Somalia where Islamic militants had set up a base, officials in the northern region of Puntland said Saturday.
Like I said. Delusional.