Nervous Buddha has found the conservative Investor’s Business Daily running a cartoon with the “stabbed in the back” meme that’s right out of the myth making office of pre-WWII Nazi Germany (Quick history lesson: the Nazis blamed the German government for selling out the country post-WWI and used that resentment to help propel them into power and laid the groundwork for the hell on earth that followed).
I’d like to keep continuing track of this conservative idea as it spreads (see previous version). If you see it, drop me an email.
You don’t have enough band width to track this adequately. Every time the boy king or one of his minions opens their pie hole on iraq they spout some variation of this theme.
File this one under ‘Grasping for Straws’.
And intellectual laziness.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/05/13/lindsey-graham-troops-losers/trackback/
Here’s one. If you oppose the escalation you’re calling the troops loosers. Same hymnal just a different song
Or, as they say in television: The same thing, but different.
It’s hard to link this administration to the Nazis. They are very much un - Nazi like.
Actually, the charge was that the civilians in Germany had undermined the German troops in the field. And, while this was certainly a charge which was taken up later by the Nazis, it was something that was believed by many mainstream Germans at the time of the German defeat.
Of course, comparing anything a conservative does to Nazism is just silly, but such is what passes for political thought in the 21st Century. GOP = Bad; Dems = Good.
Godwin’s Law (and perhaps ARC’s Law?) rears its ugly head yet again.
OW - you can do better.
Actively seeking to undermine a commander in the field which was near unanimously approved to carry out the mission you’re undermining could be characterized as being “stabbed in the back.”
Just admit it and give up the Conservatives are Nazis idiocy.
Wow; amazing how history keeps repeating itself.
Good grab.
St Wendelerm, Hitler was a conservative. There is nothing odd about that. Now he was extreme of course, but conservatives really do appeal to “stab in the back”.
And Stalin was a ‘liberal’
Your point?
And the “stabbed in the back” meme spreads like wildfire throughout the right wing / republican blogosphere!
First one blog, then another. Then… Then…
And if you know anything at all about Hitler’s rise to power, Larsson, you know that he was a leftist. His competing leftists couldn’t get their act together to unite and stop him, and he won a plurality.
It’s all right here.
That’s bullshit Frank. Read Richard J. Evans’ The Coming of the Third Reich.
The Nazis were most definitely not leftists. They made sops to liberal economic policies during their election campaigns to win over the peasant and labor votes but they were wholly aligned with the anti-Weimar Republic right.
Hitler was not a leftist. He disdained socialism. The one guy in the Nazi leadership who wanted to promote socialism was on Hitler’s shitlist. Hitler’s rise to power was aided and abetted by wealthy industrialists who thought a tough dictator like him would help their bottom line.
fraemone out of the bullpen in late innings.
No, YOU read “Hitler: The Path to Power” by Charles Bracelen Flood.
You got a book, I got a book…
I fail to see the significance of whether Hitler was liberal or conservative. The issue is that he was bloodthirsty and amoral.
The “stabbed in the back” meme is relevant because it was a way for Nazis to portray some members of the population as traitors to the fatherland. The relevance to modern society is that there is a group of scurrilous cowards at Investors Business Daily who are borrowing from it today. So long as it is just the cowards at IBD, America is fine. It is when some brutal conservative populists like Sean Hannity and Michael Savage get a hold of it that I start to get nervous.
Frank, by all means, quote us the relevant passages for your book.
Hitler was a leftist.
Hitler was a LEFTIST?
That’s the single most idiotic thing you have ever typed and there’s a fuckload of competition there.
Seriously. Fuck off, Frank, you stupid fuck. There is seriously something fundamentally wrong with anyone who genuinely believes that Hitler was left-wing. You seriously have to be very stupid, completely insane, or a pathalogically loyal right-winger to even entertain the notion of believing that. You’re officialy not worth talking to anymore, and I only do so from now on with that proviso.
Hitler was a leftist. And MacDonalds is a health food shop.
Hitler was an intense anti-Communist and in fact went after Communists first, and only after that Jews.
Unlike many other anti-Communists Hitler opened a war with the Soviet Union.
His values were conservative on for example education, religion, military.
He was an anti-Semite, but it isn’t that different to demonize Jews as it is to demonize immigrants and Muslims, as there are a lot of conservatives doing.
Hey, NG, don’t talk to me. Thanks for the early Fathers’ Day Gift, you toadie!
Larsson: He didn’t go after the Communists first. He experimented with extermination on the developmentally disabled, then he started killing Jews,amongst whom were many communists. He killed Communists for the same reason communists killed Nazis — they were competitors — not ideological opposites.
YOU ARE A MORON. NAZISM IS NOT LEFT-WING. ONLY SOME KIND OF MADMAN WOULD TRY TO CLAIM THAT IT EVER WAS OR COULD BE. YOU ARE KILLING YOUR BRAINCELLS BY DEVOTING THEM TO THIS INSANITY. STOP IT.
I thought you weren’t talking to me, you worthless piece of shit!
And spare me the CAPS. I am not in the least impressed by your howling and mewling.
Do you honestly believe that your CAPS LOCK will change my mind? You are a childish, churlish, ignorant, waste product of the British Welfare State.
When Anthony Burgess wrote A Clockwork Orange, he was predicting your birth and life.
I AM NOT HOWLING OR MEWLING. I AM SIMPLY BEING INCREDIBLY CLEAR BECAUSE YOU ARE A MORON. HENCE THE FULL STOPS AND LACK OF CONTRACTIONS. IF I WAS SCREAMING I WOULD BE USING EXCLAMATION POINTS. MAYBE THE ODD INTERROBANG. ALSO YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT “THE BRITISH WELFARE STATE” MEANS, YOU JUST READ IT IN A BOOK OR THE NATIONAL REVIEW OR SOMETHING.
ALSO PLEASE NOTE I SAID I WASN’T GOING TO TALK TO YOU ANYMORE, JUST THAT YOU WEREN’T WORTH EXPENDING INTELLECTUAL ENERGY ON. I SUSPECTED THAT YOU WOULD HAVE WANTED ME TO ADDRESS YOU LESS, SO IT SEEMED CLEAR THAT THE OBVIOUS THING TO DO WOULD BE TO DO IT MORE.
NO I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THIS CAPITALS THING WILL CHANGE YOUR MIND. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING WILL CHANGE THE MIND OF SOMEONE STUPID AND/OR INSANE ENOUGH TO THINK THAT HITLER WAS LEFT-WING. QUITE FRANKLY I STILL DON’T BELIEVE YOU GENUINELY DO THINK THAT.
I HAVE NO PLANS TO GO OUT RAPING AND ASSAULTING PEOPLE FOR NO REASON AT ALL ACTUALLY. YOU DO REALISE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WEREN’T THE GOOD GUYS IN THAT NOVEL?
OKAY THIS IS GETTING OLD NOW. Hey, if you get to pretend Hitler was one of “us”, can I foist Pol Pot and Stalin on you?
Frank, do you believe that Congress has “stabbed the troops in the back?” Just curious.
“He didn’t go after the Communists first.”
OKay. Now you really can’t pretend you’ve read any history books on the subject.
No, zadura, with caveats:
They haven’t succeeded in forcing the war to a close.
We don’t know what the average soldiers’ reactions will be. A great number of GI’s felt betrayed, and, of course, that the Vietnamese were betrayed after 1975.
Will the Iraqi veterans feel the same way (if the Congress is successful in ending the war prematurely)? I don’t know.
frameone: Are you trying to tell me that the Germans didn’t begin their campaign for racial purity with the sterilization of the mentally ill?
Are you sure?
http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr64ii.htm
Um, dipshit, they weren’t in a position to begin a campaign for racial purity until after they were in power. In their rise to power Nazis targeted labor union activists, social democrats and communists in vicious street fights, assasination plots and propaganda campaigns.
You don’t shit about shit, do you?
Frank, I don’t doubt in six months when we begin to pull back our forces that some GI’s will feel betrayed, and it will be up to folks like you to poison them with the idea that we might have “won” if only we’d spend a few hundred billion more on the enterprise.
One more thing Frank, you answered Zadura’s question as if you actually think there was a conspiracy of liberals and jews that stabbed the German soldier in the back was true. I thought it was needless to say but i guess not: there wasn’t.
The whole “stabbed-in-the-back” was/is a groundless hunt for scapegoats, preferably targeted at domestic political enemies. That’s the connection between conservatives today and conservative germans/Nazis then. They don’t give a fuck about anything expect stirring up shit against their political enemies.
frameone: (I hesitate to call you “dipshit” lest you resort to that serious profanity and obscenity for which you are so well known) They were fighting with their competition [I think this is the third time I have said this], not their ideological It’s as if the conservatives and libertarians were fighting it out in the Republican Party.
Books 2 and 3 you should read:
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich. William L. Shirer
The Crisis of German Ideology : Intellectual Origins of the Third Reich George L. Mosse
as if you actually think there was a conspiracy of liberals and jews that stabbed the German soldier in the back was true
At last, someone on this thread has finally earned the epithet “idiot”, frameone. Isn’t it great that it was you?
I didn’t say, or imply, or infer any such thing. That was nothing more than a seriously idiotic attempt on your part to say something bad about me, because you don’t shit from Shinola about Hitler, or the fucking Nazis.
You think you’re a scholar on between - the - war Germany, because you saw “Schindler’s List” for ‘Spielberg 101′?
not their ideological should be not their ideological opposites
Frank, did you read Mosse or are you just throwing it out to sound literary?
Because if you did read it, please tell me how Fichte’s Address to the German People could be construed as a liberal document. Given what Mosse says about Fichte, please tell me how Mosse connected Fichte to the Volkische movement and then to Joseph Gobbels. You are losing credibility fast.
I didn’t memorize it,and it has been many years… I was “rendering my impression”, as they say.
I realize that Mosse’s book was more philosophical than political.
Flood’s book was where I actually got the idea that Hitler’s rise was because the disorganization of the left, not a simple opposition to them.
Personally, I have always felt that the animosity between the Nazis and the Communists was overstated for purposes of Cold War — “Look at how much we suffered for you” — when, in fact, they got Eastern Europe out of the deal, killed millions of their own people, and had a non - aggression pact, while Hitler took Czechoslovakia, Austria, and France, to name just a few.
Don’t get me started on them.
Believe me, I never lie. I may cherry pick or quote only the guy who agrees with me, but I never lie. Why would I?
You’re in classic form Frank. When confronted with the idiocy of your statement — “He didn’t go after the Communists first.” — you duck and dodge without ever returning to actually defend your statement. In the process, your comments grow ever more incoherent and idiotic. Case in point:
“Flood’s book was where I actually got the idea that Hitler’s rise was because the disorganization of the left, not a simple opposition to them.”
of course hitler’s rise to power was aided by the disorganization of the left. The communists, social democrats and other moderate liberals parties were beset by wariness and animosity long before the national socialists showed up on the scene to exploit the divisions. That has absolutely nothing to do with your argument that the Nazis were leftists. Indeed, the Nazis were identified with the hard right by Germans at the time: they were opposed to the democratic reforms of the Weimar Republic and allied themselves with monarchists and the military in opposition to the Social Democrats and communists. It was the inability of the left to stage a unified opposition to fascism in Germany that lead to Hitler’s rise to chancellor. Eventually, the European left recognized the threat of fascism but i guess you never heard of the popular front either.
Mr. Pipeline, the idea behind the nicknames is to disguise your public identity. Hiding your anonymous, false identity borders on pathological.
Get back to the hospital, before they find out you’ve escaped.
BTW, what’s with all the history lessons? I’ve probably read more books on the Third Reich, and seen more documentaries than any of you, maybe even all of you, put together.
You forget when I grew up. World War II wasn’t near the end of the history books where you learned about in April or May. It was practically current events, and World War II documentaries and studies of Hitler and the Third Reich were practically all that was on early TV.
So, tell your revisionist history to that hippie in the birkenstocks that gave you an “A” in Civics for spelling Woodstock correctly.
Is that why you’re hiding your nickname, Mr. Pipeline?
Maybe you read books on the history of Nazi Germany but you clearly didn’t learn a damn thing from them, because you got almost everything wrong.
There is no way possible you read Shirer’s book and could type that Hitler was a leftist with a straight face. How do I know? Because I’m reading that very book right now.
Frank, you are an odd duck. You constantly claim that nobody here has any comprehension about current and historical events. Then, when you are presented with a topic about which you claim to have significantly deeper knowledge than anybody else, you show yourself to be quite ignorant of the major themes.
A wiser man would just admit he was wrong. I am afraid you are not that kind of man.
zadura: When did you become so judgemntal? Was it before or after you became the smartest man on the planet.
I don’t need or want your opinion of me. You are as close to an absolute stranger to me, as anyone could ever get. You and I could sit across the aisle from each other on Amtrak for 10 hours, and not even exchange nods of recognition.
I will concede this and this only. The people who disagree with me have posted their opinion. Because, in their minds, they accept the Communists’ definition of their political opponents, Nazis are viewed as “rightists”. With all the ranting and raving, the so - called arguments so far boiled down, seem to be: Nazis pretended to be leftists, but really weren’t; they came after the communists first [but they passed laws to sterilize, and exterminated first, the mentally ill and developmentally disabled — fd); and, my favorite, conservatives are like Nazis, because, well, Nazis are conservatives.
What you have all shown is that hollering at me, and criticizing me has become the “LKTS” pastime.
A wiser man would just admit that.
I am sure that that will never happen on this blog
BTW, zadura, if I wanted to admit I was wrong, I would do it like everyone else at “LKTS” does it: I would just stop posting on the thread.
Conservatives aren’t like Nazis. But the current bunch of Conservatives who are running things in America right now are using a famous propaganda technique that was a favourite of the Nazis. No-one’s directly comparing the one with the other, they’re just pointing out that the one seems very comfortable taking ideas from the other when it suits. Republicans may be fuckheads but they haven’t killed 12 million people for no rational reason at all yet.
Then again, here I am trying to appeal to the rationality of someone who’s trying to convice us that Hitler was a commie.
By the way, Frank, if you deliberately put your head above the parapet, you don’t get to complain when people shoot at you.
i’ve never seen someone lose an argument so quickly and thoroughly as fd10801
If you’re arguing that 2+2=6, there’s already no way to win from the beginning.
This mission to claim Hitler as a liberal is part and parcel of the same revisionism that claims MLK as a conservative, or that JFK and RFK would disavow Ted Kennedy’s politics.
That is to say, it’s not based in fact, it’s based in wishful thinking.
“We National Socialists are enemies, deadly enemies, of the present capitalist system with its exploitation of the economically weak …”
Gregor Strasser, Nazi theoretician
From our post war perspective Nazis belong to the extreme right, but in reality they prove the circular nature of the political spectrum with the extremes so far apart that they are next to each other. Stalin and Hitler didn’t sign The Nazi-Soviet pact because they both felt they were opposites.
And then Hitler killed Gregor Strasser for being too left-wing.
Not really. He was a Nazi and assassinated as part of an intra party purge (Night of Long Knives - Brown Shirts).
Yes, really. Like you said, he was killed in the Night of the Long Knives.
“So, tell your revisionist history to that hippie in the birkenstocks that gave you an “A” in Civics for spelling Woodstock correctly.”
Nice. Not a rebuttal, just more bullshit. Seems typical of you Frank.
Frank yo are anabsolute dipshit moron:
To bring this issue back into focus, certain elements on the Right are blaming Democrats for not supporting the war effort. They are — among other themes — using a well-established Nazi propaganda device. I personally find that offensive and unamerican and have sent a letter of protest to IBD for that reason. So long as this kind of imagery remains in the financial press, where it is a toothless tiger, there is nothing to be concerned with. It is only when we get some demented demagogue like Savage or Hannity that there is reason to be concerned.
I would also simply add that Hitler used the Reichstag fire in Feb 1933 as an excuse to ban the Communist Party and arrest its members:
All of which is to say, that the nazis moved fast to wrap the violence and thuggery that brought them to power in the mantle of officialdom and state authority. This power was directed at their political enemies with the greatest force in the beginning. The Nazis moved fast as well to implement laws against the Jews, the handicapped, homosexuals etc., that’s clear as well, but the first people to end up in Nazis concentration camps were communists, social democrats, labor activists etc. They were the guinea pigs for the system of extermination to come.
z adura is absolutely correct.
And dugger, the right at the time in Germany were not a bunch of free market, flat tax advocates. They were the monarchists, the artistocrats, deposed from power by the coming of liberal reforms culminating in the Weimar Republic. Hitler allied himself with the old, pre-Weimar regime. Nazis were definitely considered to be a party of the right in Germany at the time.
I am only going to say one more thing, so that you can, if you wish, attempt to discuss whether there is anything about Republicans that resembles the Nazis, and get over bashing me.
Trust me, you have no need to be concerned about how I feel about, but you are wasting your time, and I do not plan to post to, or even read, this thread again.
All of the Communists’ enemies were not on the right. The politics in Germany during the “between the wars” era makes Italy’s look like a stable, two - party system. All of the Nazis’ enemies were not on the left.
Wow, Frank, what an absolutely meangingless final comment. Thanks for contributing …
You know, when I first saw Frank claim that Hitler was a leftist, I thought, “Wow. Not even Dugger would say something that utterly off base.”
But then he claimed that Hitler and Stalin were essentially the same.
And yet only one was History’s Greatest Monster.
Can any of the regressives here tell the rest of us which side that one was on?
Because if history serves, he was on the right.
Now get the fuck out of my class.
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