Whether or not I’m seeking revenge, I’m still concerned with ending terrorism, and I still consider the USA to be at war, and I still contend that many Presidents have suspended civil liberties in time of war, with no permanent negative results — except perhaps Lincoln’s Civil War income tax.

Or should I say,”You say I say it’s about revenge; I say it’s about justice.”

Just keep feeling more sorry for the prisoners at Gitmo than I do for the families and survivors of the people killed on 9/11.

So it’s about the revenge huh?

Of course we don’t know how many American citizens were arrested in the US and held for months as material witnesses. Ditto for legal immigrants.

So, Frank, you accept, condone or justify anything that happens to people as long as they aren’t US citizens. Regardless of US involvement. Thanks for clarifying that.

Do I have that right so far?

What if I told you that I believe what I believe precisely because it is going to, in most cases, happen to exactly the right people?

What if I reminded you that those “trial flaws” melted away like last winter’s snows when Libby got framed?

And what if I reminded you that if you are not going to change your mind, just because “it happened to you”, then there is no reason to suppose that I have not come to my way of thinking after thinking about what might happen to me and my children, now is there?

Have you ever been falsely arrested? I have.

Have you ever seen your brother choked by a policeman for nothing? I have.

Have you ever been threatened by a policeman, with a gun, right in the station, in front of a secretary, who quickly turned her eyes away? I have.

I know what can happen right here in the good ol’ USA … You don’t need to remind me of anything.

Just keep feeling more sorry for the prisoners at Gitmo than I do for the families and survivors of the people killed on 9/11.

Play it the Democrat(ic) way.

My question to you is: How many of them were American citizens turned in by angry neighbors?

If we were discussing capital punishment and I took the position that it never should happen, a valid examination is if I would still hold to that belief if my daughter were raped and murdered. (I don’t believe in capital punishment because of various trial flaws).

Now back to Gitmo detainees.

Of the detainees:

Only 8% were classified as fighters for
30% were classified as members of a terrorist group or the Taliban
60% were classified as associated with
2% had no classification alleged.
___________________
Of Group Affiliations;
32% affiliated with Al Qaeda
28% affiliated Al Qaeda AND Taliban
22% affiliated Taliban
7% affiliated Taliban OR Al Qaeda
10% Unidentified or unalleged
1% other
_____________________________

55% FIFTY-FIVE PERCENT of the detainees are not determined to have committed any hostile act against the US or its coalition allies.
_____________________________
Only 5% of the detainees were captured by the US
86% were captured by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance when the US was offering large cash bounties.
___________________________
“Get wealth and power beyond your dreams….You can receive millions of dollars helping the anti-Taliban forces catch al-Qaida and Taliban murders. This is enough money to take care of your family, your village, your tribe for the rest of your life. Pay for livestock and doctors and school books and housing for all your people.”

An example of a US ad placed in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
__________________________________
Each detainee was determined by the US to be an enemy comabatant before his CSRT hearing.
______________________________
Criteria for determining a detainee as an enemy combatant include:
- Possession of a rifle
- Possession of a Casio watch.
- Wearing drab olive clothing.
- Staying in a guest house (similar to a hostel).
______________________________
The Taliban government was run by 11 governors and several ministers, mayors, police bigwigs, and senior administrators. None of which are at Gitmo. The Taliban heavily used conscription. Many unwilling conscripts are at Gitmo.
______________________________

11 Out of over 500 detainees had actually met Hussein.
___________________________

My conclusion:

Gitmo is an expensive jail for some innocent people and some guilty small fish masquerading as a PR prison for the “worst of the worst”.

And I’m inclined to believe that my children are more important to me than my, or anyone else’s, profession.

And when I say, “You liberals” I am referring to the practices of the people here on this blog.

Apparently, the thrust of my argument is valid, as you haven’t seen fit to even try to refute it.

I’ll bet that the subject of my children comes up long before the subject of frameone’s profession. And I think it’s safe to say that for all conservatives and all liberals that post on this blog.

Finally, my first name is bandied about all over this blog, mention has been made of my address, my schooling and my age — on many occasions. I’m asking that my children be left out of this, especially in usages like, “Would you want ________ to happen to your children?”

There’s a commenter on this blog who mentioned the other day that his daughter is of age to vote, and that she is anxious to do so. What would you think if, in the midst of a discussion about capital punishment, I asked him how he would feel about capital punishment if his daughter were raped and killed? Would that be O.K.? He brought it up, didn’t he?

Taking 3+ years to get around to having tribunals to determine the status of prisoners is not following the Geneva conventions.

Also, many feel the tribunals were shams anyway.

“Why do all you liberals say …”
Nice sweeping statement considering the sentence above it.

Presidents have always, in wartime, suspended civil liberties to different degrees. This is no different.

There are tribunals in place right now to determine if each of the prisoners is a combatant (subject to the Geneva Conventions), or a non-combatant (subject to due process).

That should, but probably will not, satisfy you.

Squirrel,because I didn’t reveal it to be used as “rhetorical ammo” for ill - mannered, sophomoric commenters.

Why do you think that I bear any responsibility for someone else’s comments?

Why do all you liberals say things like, “If you didn’t want me to mock your handicap, why didn’t you conceal that hook?”, as if the fact that you know something requires you to comment on it.

See the point is Frank, a precedent now exists for people to be arrested and held incommunicado with no judicial review on little or no real evidence for years at a time. These same people are mistreated. Again with no system in place to even establish guilt or innocence.

You think the point is moot because you aren’t brown
Don’t even call the travel agent to buy the tickets to go there. That is complete nonsense on two levels. Terrorists aren’t “brown”, and they’re not picked up because their names are Achmed or Abdullah. So just knowing that someone is ethnically semitic isn’t enough. And I’m not racist — I just want the government to apprehend terrorists in the USA, and kill them everywhere else.

The point is, your neighbor could be a terrorist and could give up your name simply because he doesn’t like when you mow your lawn. Then it would be you.
That is just rhetorical hogwash. If that ever happened to me, I’d complain about it. If it ever happens to you, I’d complain about it. If it happens to someone you know, let me know. If someone you know ever tells you it happened to someone they know, then come back to me. Until then, I’ll not engage in any McCarthy era fantasies that we’re all in danger of being snatched and flown off to Gitmo. [And I don’t mow my lawn, you rich capitalist landowner, you — my filthy capitalist pig landlord exploits a Mexican superintendent by paying him lots of money to do it].

And could you please at least pretend you have the good taste to leave my sons out of this. It is inflammatory as well as foolish.

Therein lies a major problem with your argument. Many weren’t captured armed in a war zone. Many were turned over just for the US bounty money. Many had nothing to do with terrorism or terrorist groups or the war and were held for years with no process at all to gauge their innocence or guilt. So Frank, the question remains: what if it were you or one of your kids?

You think the point is moot because you aren’t brown. Imagine if they started treating domestic terrorist groups the same way? There are many white Americans involved in terrorism just as deadly and maybe more dangerous than Muslim brown terrorists. Anthrax and Oklahoma City. In Texas they caught a man with a sodium-cyanide bomb capable of killing thousands. What tipped law enforcement off to this plot? A box of fake IDs (Department of Defense and UN) was delivered to the wrong address.

The point is, your neighbor could be a terrorist and could give up your name simply because he doesn’t like when you mow your lawn. Then it would be you.

Were you expecting me to say yes? I’m not a terrorist, or even a suspected terrorist. Hell, I’m not even a liberal Democrat(ic)!

If I were captured under the same circumstances as they were, i.e., armed and in a war zone, yes.

Same goes for my kids. But you can stop pretending to worry about them, and you can stop using their existence to win arguments now.

The fact is, they spend so much time on the Internet, and playing video games, they barely even go outdoors.

They won’t be going to the middle east to fire on American soldiers anytime soon.