I really hope people don’t get lured into a false sense of security, assuming that the Bush administration won’t invade Iran because its simply a stupid thing to do. I made the mistake in 2002-3 thinking that while the Bush administration was ginning up animosity towards Iraq, they would never invade and occupy the nation because that would be amazingly dumb.
Clearly, I was way overestimating their intelligence.
I’m surprised that anyone has any doubt that Bu$h & Co. are planning an intensive air campaign against Iran.
Be clear, Bush and Co. WANT to invade Iran. This is not something they are being dragged into or are obligated to do. This has been PLANNED FOR YEARS.
The Project for a New American Century have been planning this since before Bush got into office. Hell, they even wished for a terror attack to get the whole thing moving!
Coincidence?
Yes…they are going to do this unless someone in my cowardly government stops them– not likely. Iran will respond by shutting down oil deliveries through the extremely narrow Straight of Hormuz (40% of global supply). This will lead to global economic collapse and full scale conventional, and very possibly, nuclear war– believe it. And no, I’m not a “Chicken Little” democrat. This is an extremely likely scenario. Not to mention probable missile strikes (bio-chem.) against Israel and various US bases in the region…Saudi Oil fields? The Green Zone? An extremely “target rich” environment for Iran. It is a suicidal move the Strauss/PNAC/Neocon/AIPAC psychos have been planning since the beginning. Eat, drink, and be merry…cause we’re in deep, deep shit folks. Oh, and for the right-wing idiots who will respond to this by saying “we have to act now!” Iran is 5 to 10 years away from having nuclear weapon capabilities. And, I don’t think it makes much sense to start a nuclear war to prevent one. Nice going Bush/Cheney supporters– IDIOTS!!!!
So OW, did you also overestimate the intelligence of the Democrats who voted for war. Want to see a list? Or is Bush so smart, so brilliant that he tricked these Democrats - which would then seem to contradict your whole worldview (smart Ds, dumb Rs). Which is is it: Bush tricks stupid Democrats or stupid Democrats vote for war?
Not relevant.
Obviously, duggs, it doesn’t matter to you as long as you get to say “Democrats are dumb.”
and besides, not relevant.
90% of the democrats who are supposed to represent me are worthless. But, it is unimaginable to me that people didn’t/don’t see the extremely dangerous personalities of Bush/Cheney etc… Having by far the world’s largest nuclear arsenal/military force places us in a position where we have to be EXTREMELY careful who we put in power. What if Bush/Cheney would have been at the button during the Cuban Missile Crisis? We came within an inch. Only some extremely intelligent DIPLOMACY by the Kennedy Administration kept us all from getting killed. I have no illusions regarding the democrats in power…..but this is Bush/Cheney’s war. As Truman said, “The buck stops here.”
Which is is it: Bush tricks stupid Democrats or stupid Democrats vote for war?
Step One: Democratic Congressfolks give President benefit of the doubt.
Step Two: President reveals himself to be irredeemable screwup.
Step Three: President loses benefit of the doubt.
Iran, a check list:
a.)Oil? Check
b.)Planning to sell oil for Euros rather than dollars? Check
c.)Embarrassed U.S. with hostages and then with Iran/Contra? Check
d.)Openly trades with China and Russia? Check
e.)Potentially working on a nuclear deterrent that would undermine U.S. hegemony and strip Israel of it’s regional trump card? Check
f.)In possession of anti-ship missile technology (Sunburn) that may very well f*ck up the whole U.S. carrier fleet? Check
Why yes, Dugger, many spineless Dems, cowed by the administration’s dominance of all three branches of power and fearful of public perception, gave King George a wholly undeserved blank check to go on a murderous rampage in Iraq. Should we all survive this pathological administration, maybe America will finally learn to outgrow its fatalistic military fetish and start dealing with the world like grown ups.
b.)Planning to sell oil for Euros rather than dollars? Check
Isn’t this exactly what Saddam was planning to do before the invasion?
Hmmmmm.
b.)Planning to sell oil for Euros rather than dollars? Check
Isn’t this exactly what Saddam was planning to do before the invasion?
Hmmmmm.
oops. Sorry.
Yes, that’s correct, Saddam was moving from dollars to Euros.
Well lets see. Interest is lackluster, but….
Michael votes for ’stupid Democrats’ because frat boy tricked them.
Bill L votes for mega- spineless Democrats (not an option, but I’ll accept his independent assessment).
OW just ducks the question (I guess it could be kind of ‘officially’ embarrassing).
At this point then its a tie: half think stupid frat boy Bush hoodwinked the Dems, including the world’s smartest woman, and the other half just thinks Dems are spineless surrender monkeys (to Bush) - I guess this would also include Hillsy and grade A certified ‘reporting for duty’ hero Kerry.
This a public service by Dugger.
Wow, way to oversimplify there, Dugger.
If you really are dugger. You seems…different today somehow.
Normally Dugger affects an aw-shucks Andy Griffith vibe. This Dugger is a colder kind of stupid, like Dwight on the office.
The democrats did not vote to go into war Dugger, and you know that, and its intellectually dishonest of you in the extreme to pretend they did. They voted to give the president the authority to go to war if it proved to be necessary, with his assurance war was a last resort, and thinking (somewhat sensibly, though I disagree with it) that consolidating the power to go to war was a useful leveraging weight that could be used in dimlomatic areas, and would be handled in the best way possible if it ever came to that. In other words, if youre trying to use this point to argue that the Democrats are stupid, then you need to make it explicit why. Please say:
“The Democrats are stupid, as evidenced by their ever trusting someone as manifestly incompetant and dishonest as President George W Bush.”
Dugger’s trying to change the subject, ignore him.
This isn’t about who Bush and co suckered into supporting the invasion of Iraq, it’s about the inevitability of at least an attempt on Iran.
Rex
I don’t believe Democrats or Republicans are necessarily stupid. I take exception to OWs charge that the invasion of Iraq was ‘ginned up’ and the people who did it were, in effect, stupid (intelligence way over estimated). If they were stupid (ie, the Admin) then what does thats ay about the people who followed them: stupid and spineless? And absolutely, the war vote was a war vote. Everybody knew it and knows it. Google leftist John Edwards on this. Only *ss covering Dems (and maybe an R here of or there) are saying otherwise. It was a war vote. Check out he headlines and news descriptions.
Dugger, you still need to provide that list of Bush Iraq claims that were true to take exception. Bush lied. Any Dem that voted to give Bush authorization was stupid, but stop trying to shift the blame: Bush made the decision to go to war. Look at the rhetoric of the time of the vote, it wasn’t about starting a war, it was about forcing compliance and such. Unless you are admitting Bush was lying the many times he claimed the decision to go to war hadn’t been made?
Get to work. I want to see that list.
“…what does thats ay about the people who followed them: stupid and spineless?”
Um, yes.
“Bush made the decision to go to war.”
On January 21, 2001.
I’ve said this a million times (and you know this):
1. The Democrats were dumb to vote to authorize the use of force.
2. Bush was even dumber to actually use the force, have no plan for the post-Saddam and to continue to escalate that war.
Almost all of the Dems and some Republicans who stupidly voted for the war have now clearly said they made a horrible decision. Bush still thinks it was the right decision and if we have to lose 3,000 more American lives to allow him to say he did the right thing, so be it he believes.
Why do you absolve Bush of his ultimate decision as CiC to go to war? The Democrats and Republicans have their hands in this, but when the issue is war the buck stops at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. That’s true when we win wars and when we have lost wars. Period.
“The resolution was a resolution that authorized the president to take that action if he deemed it necessary. Had I been more true to myself and the principles I believed in at the time, I would have openly opposed the whole adventure vocally and aggressively. I had a tough time reconciling doing that against the duties of majority leader in the House. I would have served myself and my party and my country better, though, had I done so.”
Dick Armey laying it in Bush’s lap.
Actually, Bush (as I have sadi before here) gets the majority of the responsibility for iraq. That however does absolve Rs and Ds in Congress who voted to authorize war. SO when you single out individuals for hate rhetoric, you naturally leave the door open for justified reciprocity.
And B TW, all, we do not know at this point whether Iraq will be a success or failure. Though, if the Dems lead us tos urrender, we guarantee failure (your only counter argument would be that staying the course constitutes an unknown, greater failure -guessing).
And, don’t forget, LA County is far more dangerous per pedugger’s ‘Invasion Fuck Ups for Dummies’.
It was Bush that wrongly deemed action necessary. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that told us Iraq had chemical weapons when Iraq didn’t have chemical weapons. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that told us Iraq had nuclear weapons. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that told us Iraq had terrorist ties to Al Qaeda. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that failed to get significant meaningful international support. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that failed to send enough troops to stop the looting. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that failed to send enough troops to secure suspected WMD and known nuclear material sites. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that failed to send enough troops to secure found weapons and ammo dumps. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that failed to plan for post-invasion occupation. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that authorized torture. Therefore it falls on Bush.
It was Bush that has failed to adapt or even admit to the deteriorating situation. Therefore it falls on Bush.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Yeah, there was an entire Senate that let the country down by listening and believing GW Bush. It doesn’t excuse Bush for committing us to this war however.
So basically,
“The Buck stops here.”
Here’s your change.