His presidential campaign is the Titanic. His idiot mouth has killed it.
UPDATE: The audio of Biden’s comments are out and they don’t change a thing. What he said was racist, offensive, and not representing any of the qualities of the Democratic party or America.
Unfortunately, the guy’s a zombie, and I am not sure he will recognize how dead he should be.
Props to Oliver for showing some consistency.
So if a Democrat calls Obama “articulate and clean” he is an “idot” but if a Republican had been so stupid, he would be a racist?
Fair and balanced.
He ought to lose his Senate seat over this, in addition to having instantly euthanized his own Presidential ambitions.
One Politcal Darwin Award to Mr. Joseph Biden.
Biden deserves what he’s going to get. Every bit of it. But will any outraged rightwinger come out against Rush Limbaugh repeatedly calling Obama a “half-rican American”? Will that particularly odious neologism get any play on Fox News or the Note or Time Magazine or the Drudge Report? I highly doubt it.
Hedley, I now think racist is a fair way to decribe Biden. I don’t think he’s as bad as Rush, but he’s pretty ignorant.
“you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”
Who the hell told him that was a good thing to say if you’re running for President?
Isn’t he on the Daily Show tonight?
That’ll be interesting.
Seriously, though. “Clean?” WTF?
Hedley: I would further distinguish Biden from Rush by saying that Biden’s is a sort of arrogant, condescending racism, while Limbaugh’s is more one of outright suspicion, hostility, and traditional supremicism.
“…if a Republican had been so stupid, he would be a racist?”
I don’t think there’s any question that racism played its role in Biden’s idiotic statement.
So if a Democrat calls Obama “articulate and clean” he is an “idot” but if a Republican had been so stupid, he would be a racist?
Well, idiocy is a superset of racism, I suppose.
“…if a Republican had been so stupid, he would be a racist?”
Okay, I’ll say it. he’s an idiot racist.
There, happy now?
I agree with Duros. Is Biden a racist? Yes.
Biden’s statement is racist. Also a penguin is a kind of bird.
Some things go without saying, really.
I guess this was Biden’s ‘Baracka’ moment.
Biden:
inarticulate
dim
dirty–see also “MBNA”
not good-looking either.
This is definitely a “macaca moment” if I’ve ever seen one. Question is, will Democrats and the mainstream press make the same “macacaphony” over Biden’s remarks? Will the Washington Post mention Biden’s remark over one hundred times during the next three months?
Biden does have a history of this kind of thing you know.
Biden’s clearly a idiotic racist, I doubt you’ll get any argument from anyone on that point.
Mike, although Biden has said racist things like this several times, I don’t think anything had the simplicity, the utter brilliance, the… je no ce quas… of George Allen’s “macaca.”
Question is, will Republicans and the GOP noise machine make the same “half-ri-cacaphony” over Rush Limbaugh repeatedly mocking Obama as a “half-rican American”? Will the Fox News or the Note or Time Magazine or the Drudge Report mention Biden’s remark over one hundred times during the next three months? Will Mike show that he actually has principles when it comes to racism, rather than just naked partisan greed?
Limbaugh does have a history of this kind of thing you know.
Dr. G-h, I’m glad I’m not the only one outraged by Rush’s remarks.
Yeah, Duros, but it’s funny how the right can go from outraged to silent so quickly over a principle that’s so crystal clear. Biden is condescending and offensive, but he’s not hostilely mocking Obama’s fundamental racial identity.
At a time when conservatives are telling themselves that Bush has abandoned conservative principles, they once again reveal conservatism to have none that exist in the real world, apart from their desire to acquire and increase their political power.
Where are the calls for him to step down as head of the Foreign Relations Committee? Where are the denunciations of his words from fellow Democrats?
In taking a page from the Democratic handbook, I can only say that any Democrat that doesn’t come forward and denounce what Biden said obviously agrees with him.
I thought the thing that torpedoed his candidacy was the fact that he’s Joe Fucking Biden for God’s sake from the barely-state of Delaware, who shot his Presidential wad 18 years ago.
Where are the calls for Rush to step down his radio show? Where are the denunciations of his words from fellow Republicans?
In taking a page from the Republican handbook, I can only say that any Republican that doesn’t come forward and denounce what Rush Limbaugh said is giving comfort to America’s enemies.
Doc, you’re being ridiculous.
There is a major difference between Joe Biden and Rush Limbaugh.
If you don’t like Rush Limbaugh, you don’t have to listen to him.
Biden meanwhile, is a United States Senator. He controls purse strings and writes laws. He’s seeking the highest office in the land.
Personally, I could care less if other Democrats denounce what he says. I’ve always maintained the position that it is just stupid to say that if somebody doesn’t denounce something, by proxy it means they agree with it. It’s dumb. Yet, you guys on the left do it all the time. So I just thought it would be funny to turn the tables a bit.
it is just stupid to say that if somebody doesn’t denounce something, by proxy it means they agree with it.
i agree. But, hey, this is still fresh. give it a news cycle or two.
So, if some of us disagree with the war in Iraq, that doesn’t mean we’re all terrorist sympathizers, or America haters, then, right?
Here’s audio of the quote in question.
http://www.brightcove.com/title.jsp?title=463858485
It sounds clear that there should be a comma, meaning that Biden’s just calling Obama himself “articulate” and “clean.” That’s not a huge improvement, in my book, since it’s clear that he buys into a lot of ugly stereotypes. But not as bad as it looks on paper, with misleading punctuation. I’m even willing to give Biden the benefit of the doubt on “clean,” as in perhaps he meant “clean-cut” or something. But on the other hand, which black politicians *aren’t* pretty clean-cut? So that’s still pretty strange. And “articulate” is almost the definition of patronizing. So on the whole, even the most charitable interpretations of what Biden said are still pretty damning.
There’s still no excuse for The Silence of the Conservatives with regard to Rush Limbaugh’s white supremecism, though. Yeah, you don’t have to listen to him, you also don’t have to be a coward about basic principles of civilized behavior, either, Jay. Rush should be off the air for what he’s said about Obama. He should never be feted by presidents and party officials again.
But he will be, because the conservative, white, southern base of the GOP doesn’t give a shit about racism except as a means to an end. Race-hustling terror pimps is all you are.
I know conservatives would like to think of themselves as principled, but it will require you actually standing up for principle from time to time, as opposed your SOP, which is immersing yourselves in childish personality cults and demonizing the opposition.
So, if some of us disagree with the war in Iraq, that doesn’t mean we’re all terrorist sympathizers, or America haters, then, right?
Sure it does!
Duros, I’m kidding btw….
But he will be, because the conservative, white, southern base of the GOP doesn’t give a shit about racism except as a means to an end. Race-hustling terror pimps is all you are.
Blah blah blah blah blah…..
You’re boring dude.
And a conservative once again proves that his hate for liberals carries more weight than his love for America. Sad times for the conservative movement. Remember, the South was almost completely out of control of the government from the Civil War until the New Deal. In that time, the government was run by a coalition of northeasterners and midwesterners. Almost 70 years. That’s because the Southern voter is simply out of step with the rest of the country.
The more things change…
Enjoy your domination of the South, and the South’s domination of your party, cons.
which is immersing yourselves in childish personality cults and demonizing the opposition.
I know. Like calling the opposition “race-hustling terror pimps”!!
Oh wait….
sorry doc but did you say republicans are “Race-hustling terror pimps is all you are”?
So by that you mean that those of us that believe that people should be “Judged by the content of their character, not the color of their skin…” are race-hustling? Those of us who believe in a color blind society are race hustling?
Glad to hear you will be coming out against affirmative action sometme soon…
A good way to change the public perception of the GOP as racist and people like you as racist enablers, Jay, would be to stand up against the racists in your ranks. Oh well, I guess your principles lost out yet again! But you have no one to blame but you for that. Demonizing your opponents may hold your coalition together, but it’s not winning anyone over either. Welcome to the wilderness, Jay.
“Those of us who believe in a color blind society are race hustling?”
Another principle you claim to hold, but then betray by your actions. Bush wouldn’t have been able to betray conservatism if it hadn’t been for the slavish devotion of cheerleaders like you, Pedro.
Now, stand up for Limbaugh’s racism! That’ll show us all how color blind you are!
A good way to change the public perception of the GOP as racist and people like you as racist enablers, Jay, would be to stand up against the racists in your ranks.
You can call me all the names you want. I don’t know what any of this has to do with JOE BIDEN. Remember, that’s the subject of Oliver’s entry. Not Rush Limbaugh.
Oh well, I guess your principles lost out yet again!
It has nothing to do with me either. You’re once again avoiding the issue. It’s a common tactic you employ and it’s a very lame one.
To add to that, you’re engaging in the very same stupid, asinine, and childish nonsense I just talked about which is calling me an ‘enabler’ because I’m not dialing up my local AM Rush affiliate and demanding in a strong voice that he be taken off the air!
You’re like what, 50-60 years old? Grow up.
What was that you said about avoiding the issue? You threw out a hypothetical, Dr GH (among others) countered with another hypothetical involving Comedian Rush Limburger.
What was that you said about avoiding the issue? You threw out a hypothetical
Yeah, involving Joe Biden. Hello.
Tangenitally. Hello.
I’ve covered Biden. I think the ideas that inspired his remarks are clear, and clearly racist. I think the appropriate consequences of his remark should be to kill his presidential ambitions, as well as some sort of public apology. I can say that.
I can also say that Rush Limbaugh is not only condescending, but racially hostile towards Obama, and should be off the air. If conservatives were indeed “colorblind” as Pedro desperately insists, then they would — at a minimum — take notice of his racist remarks — and if they were decent human beings, hound him from the air, or at least until he’d apologized. Conservatives will not do that, because their principles are entirely fictitious marketing techniques used to sucker rubes like Jay and Pedro into joining the personality cult.
“color-blind” in conservaspeak: Being willfully blind to racism.
The difference between Biden and Limbaugh is that one is an elected U.S. Senator who wants to be president and one has a radio talk show. While their comments may be equally racist, comparing the two is apples and oranges. Democrats hounded Trent Lott from his Senate post and should do the same to Biden whose comments are exponentially worse than Lott’s.
I think the appropriate consequences of his remark should be to kill his presidential ambitions, as well as some sort of public apology. I can say that.
His Presidential ambitions were a joke to begin with. The guy had no chance whatsoever. And an apology? What does that do? If you’re so high and mighty and saying people should truly be punished for their words, then he should at the very least, be stripped of his committee chair.
But we all know that won’t happen.
As for Rush Limbaugh, I don’t listen to his show (from 12-3 I listen to Jim Rome if I have the opportunity). As such, I am under no obligation whatsoever to do anything about what he said regarding Obama. Your demand that all conservatives hound him from the air or otherwise ‘prove’ their enabling of racism is imbecilic. It takes into the consideration that I have some kind of vested interest in whether or not Limbaugh is on the air. I could give two shits whether he is or not.
You, see the difference between me and you is that you feel putting on some public display of outrage is a way of cleansing the racist demons that haunt people, even if it is directed at something in which one is not involved. To me that’s nothing but cowardice and to some degree an act of somebody with a guilty conscience. “I’ll show them how much of a racist I am not by calling that other person a racist!!” You want to engage in selfish white guilt, be my guest.
a) Biden’s comments are not worse than wishing a segregationist conservative had been elected president.
b) Limbaugh is the public face of the conservative movement (as distinguished from the Republican party). He is the nation’s most famous conservative commentator, pundit, or intellectual. He reaches the most people and has the most influence. Fellow conservatives have not only failed to hold him to account, demand his resignation, or even ask for an apology — they HAVEN’T EVEN DISCUSSED THE ISSUE.
This is because conservatives value their own power over their alleged principles. It’s okay — that’s part of what makes your alien, quasi-monarchistic political personality cult what it is. Don’t go changin’ on us, y’all!
“you feel”
Your misunderstanding of the issue is summed up in your reliance on my purported “feelings.” Unsurprisingly, this is not about feelings; it is about principle — which is why you don’t get it.
Public racism must be fought because ON PRINCIPLE it is bad. It is bad whether it is expressed by a Senator whom no one knows, or whether it is expressed by the most famous radio broadcaster in the nation, with a fanbase and readership in the tens of millions. Perhaps you don’t listen to Limbaugh. But you ARE a conservative; and you have demonstrated your indifference to your conservative movement being led and represented by racists.
Why? Because your principle has been sacrificed at the altar of your hero-leader. It’s always funny how conservatives claim to be independent-minded, “I don’t get my news from the MSM” types who talk about self-reliance, etc. But when the chips are down, you’re just another dittohead singing out of the same see-no-racism hymnal.
Oliver, you really think the audio doesn’t change a thing? While he obviously has issues about black people as indicated in his use of “articulate,” I’m not sure “clean” is quite the racist word it could mean. If it meant corruption, that’s bad. If it meant actually dirty, that’s even worse. But in the context of him talking about Obama’s handsomeness, I got the feeling he meant something more like “clean-cut.” He’s definitely patronizing and condescending and buys into weird racist ideas. But it’s better than the earlier implications, which were that he was saying that all black candidates until now have been unarticulate, dirty, and ugly. I don’t think that’s what he said. Do you really think that, Oliver?
Limbaugh’s a conservative mouthpiece, a white house guest, and a leading voice of the right with a huge audience. Yes, he represents you guys and you support him.
Biden: I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American.
Horowitz: Yeah.
Biden: Who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.
****
That’s not good, but it’s not slurring every black candidate. I’m most offended by the fact that he used the word “articulate.” I don’t believe he was implying that it’s noteworthy for black people to be clean, though. I think Biden was trying to say something praising Obama’s squeaky-clean nature and it came out wrong. I don’t know this, but that’s the impression I get from the audio, and frankly, I trust the audio more than I trust Drudge’s take.
I guess what I’m getting that is the idea that certain racist ideas are more common and closer to the surface than others. Thinking of blacks as inarticulate, or lazy, or criminal is ugly but relatively garden variety bigotry. Thinking of black people being *filthy* — that’s unusually hateful, even for racists. That’s klansman talk. I don’t know anything about Biden either way, but the second type of supremecist racism is less common, at least among people who call themselves liberals, in my opinion and experience, which is why I think the “clean” thing is more likely a misstatement than it is a revelation of Biden’s hidden supremecist side.
Biden is spinning like crazy “it’s taken out of context” “my mother said” and apologizing. Is there a MBNA constituency? Nuts to Biden.
What other word best summarizes Obama? His main thing is he’s got the VOICE.
Doc, you’re way off. Your views have nothing to do with principle and everything to do with identity politics, putting everybody into groups and hypocrisy. I don’t think that way. You do and that’s your problem not mine.
First of all, conservatism is not a ‘movement.’ This is a common error made by liberals such as yourself and Oliver. A movement is as series of actions or activities aimed at a particular goal. The civil rights movement is one example. The anti-war movement is another. While both movements may have been dominated by people holding one particular ideological viewpoint over another, their goal was common.
Conservatism is an ideology, not a movement and I am not ‘led’ by anybody. That is another common type of thinking typical of liberals. You believe there has to be some defining leadership associated with the ideas rather than just allowing the ideas to speak for themselves.
Your words have nothing to do with principle. That is obvious. Why? Because you’ve already said that Biden shouldn’t be stripped of his committee chair simply because his comments “are not worse” than what Trent Lott said. If you were principled as you claim, then you wouldn’t measure what Biden said against somebody else in order to defend him. Principle would dictate that somebody with such a viewpoint of black President candidates isn’t deserving of a leadership post in the United States Senate.
In addition, you attempt to measure what Biden said against Limbaugh because he’s a “Senator whom no one knows” while Limbaugh is worse because he’s a talk show host with millions of listeners.
Last time I checked, a radio talk show host has zero power. To even suggest that he’s on par with a Senator who represents an entire state is just absurd.
I would say there is a big difference between the nostalgia of lynching and using the word articulate, Jay.
And don’t kid yourself, Limbaugh has power. When he opens his mouth his bs is spouted by hundreds of thousands of dittoheads. He’s a propaganda minister who spreads hate, racism, and your conservative ideology, and there is no truth in him.
Incidentally, there can be an ideology and a movement tied to that ideology.
Everyone is focusing on Clean. I took it to mean clean in a scandal free way. Pols are so unclean in scandal that I think the clean is meant to mean honest.
But, I use articulate when describing the senator. Not because it’s in the way of ‘for an african american. I’m thinking of all people, especially the stupid stuff that politicians say like Biden. I say articulate because so many people are not.
Sen. Obama can take you on a ride with his speaking and he also can break things down so the average person understands the issues. To me that is articulate and most people, politicians especially, cannot do this.
What Biden said came out stupid. But, to describe someone who is so very gifted and so very intellegent and so very articulate, what words do you use? I don’t think in terms of the standard, for a so and so(insert color, gender, ect). I think in terms of people including the ones who are suppose to be these things but, many times fall so far short.
You don’t use articulate with Kerry because he is not. He stumbles through what he is saying.
I guess I’m trying to say, how do you describe a person who is so very gifted in so many areas???
“Last time I checked, a radio talk show host has zero power. To even suggest that he’s on par with a Senator who represents an entire state is just absurd.”
Yes, Limbaugh has no power. That’s why whenever this administration has felt seriously challenged by a scandal over the last five years they’ve sent the Vice President to sit at Limbaugh’s feet to try to steel the faithful. You are truly an idiot, Jay. Truly. A total idiot.
The only this isn’t completely racist is if he meant…
“you got the first mainstream African-American (presidential candidate)”
In other words, Obama’s the first African-American who has a chance to win it all. I don’t think anyone is going to disagree with this.
“who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”
Here people complained about the word clean, I figured that meant he was free from political bagage. Again, that’s very true.
If this is what he meant, he wasn’t being racist. Even so, this man shouldn’t be president because he just doesn’t have what it takes.
While I personally can’t stand Biden and look forward to another failed presidential bid, I’m not convinced this is overtly racist. I agree that by “clean,” Biden meant politically and not literally physically. How titanically stupid would any politician have to be at any time to utter something along the lines of “why there goes a right tolerable negro, and look, he even gets the soap behind his ears!” Debate of the potential Freudian aspects of his word choices is another matter, but that kind of mind reading is sketchy at best. Of course, when you lump this in with his other racially dense statements (7-11’s and whatnot), it’s hard not to think he’s one of those patronizing racists who means well but can’t help “congratulating” minorities on being able to eat with a fork and go potty like the white folkses.
No matter what, though, it’s nice to know that Joe Biden’s presidential ambitions worst enemy is Joe Biden. Maybe next time he’ll manage to cram both feet and a fist in.
It would have been more surprising if Biden had said something intelligent — he’s had racial gaffes before. He wouldn’t get more than 3 to 4 percent in a primary contest.
god i hate agreeing with jay. however, this criticism of biden is way over the top. if biden’s statement was so racist, offensive, and unrepresentative of the democratic party, then why is biden allowed to keep his senate seat and committee chairs?
god i hate agreeing with jay. however, this criticism of biden is way over the top. if biden’s statement was so racist, offensive, and unrepresentative of the democratic party, then why is biden allowed to keep his senate seat and committee chairs?
Brif, you want to know something? I think the criticism of Biden is over the top as well. I’m playing devil’s advocate here and also sitting in amazement at people who could be so out of touch with reality and/or stupid to think that a radio talk show host has more power and influence than a United States Senator (for instance, it wasn’t Rush Limbaugh that helped that shitty bankruptcy bill pass, but Joe Biden voted for it thanks to the influence of one of his largest donors - MBNA). That kind of thinking is just really really dumb. I am truly astounded that people can actually think that way.
But getting back to what you said, let’s be honest here. If a Republican had said these exact same words, it would have generated wall to wall coverage and condemnations from every Democrat across the land. The liberal blogs would be on fire and you can bet top dollar that Oliver wouldn’t have titled his entry “So and So is a Farking Idiot.” It would have been another one of his “bigot eruption” titles.
It just goes to show that more often than not, it is not what was said, but who said and particularly, what party they represent.
Let’s run down the most prominent of your errors, Jay.
“Conservatism is an ideology, not a movement.”
No. It is also an ideology, but one is in no way exclusive of the other.
“Last time I checked, a radio talk show host has zero power.”
A statement that truly speaks for itself.
“I’m sitting in amazement at people who… think that a radio talk show host has more power and influence than a United States Senator.”
No one said that. I said that Limbaugh deserved, at the minimum, attention for his racism, and at an appropriate level, scorn, in addition to the professional consequences. What motivation do you have for to apologize for his racism?
But on the ideological level, which is the level at which you yourself claim to operate, Limbaugh clearly has more influence.
Also, you seem to be under the impression that Trent Lott’s punishment was worse than it was. He was forced out of the majority leadership post, yes, but he immediately became the chair of the rules committtee. He was not “stripped” of his committee assignments and suffered no loss in seniority. And last year, he rejoined the GOP leadership as minority whip. Second, what Lott said was clearly worse than what Biden said.
I’ve been clear on what I think Biden’s statements meant and what the punishment should be. I think Democrats are reacting appropriately, and that the consequences will be that his presidential bid goes nowhere, and that he has disqualified himself from any hypothetical future cabinet posts. Those are appropriate consequences.
My only question is: why does Limbaugh not only suffer no consequences, but ATTRACT NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER from conservatives, except to attract excuse-making from you, Jay?
No. It is also an ideology, but one is in no way exclusive of the other.
No, it is an ideology, not also an ideology. One is exclusive from the other. There is a movement amongst conservatives to ditch the current tax code in favor of a national sales tax. That’s a movement. Conservatism is not. In fact, people like Edmund Burke would argue that conservatism is not even an ideology, but rather just a political philosophy.
And Doc, whose making excuses for Limbaugh? I’m certainly not. Again, I do not listen to his show.
Are you responsible for condemning every hateful thing somebody on the left says simply because they happen to agree with you ideologically? Are you out there scrolling through the pages of Indymedia on a daily basis, calling upon the rational liberals of the world to shut down Indymedia.org? Are you reading all of the posts at Democratic Underground and taking notes to make sure that you’re appropriately giving them the scorn they deserve when their vitriol crosses from angry over to hateful? Where are your calls for Randi Rhodes to be taken off the air? After all, she announced on her radio show that it would be a good thing if President Bush were killed similar to the fashion that Fredo was in The Godfather II. Are you rallying the troops for that? Do I get to say you’re apologizing for their hate and making excuses for it because I don’t see you railing against it?
And don’t try to tell me its different, because it’s not. They operate on two different mediums. Rush operates on the radio, the people at Indymedia and DU operate using the Internet. Indymedia reaches people worldwide.
President Bush said the same things as Biden about Obama, but no one seems to care at all:
CAVUTO: How do you think the troops would feel about a President Obama?
BUSH: Oh, I don’t know. He, let’s — he hasn’t gotten elected yet. He hasn’t even gotten the party’s nomination either. He’s an attractive guy. He’s articulate. I’ve been impressed with him when I’ve seen him in person. But he’s got a long way to go to be president.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/01/31/bush-biden-obama/
“Rush operates on the radio, the people at Indymedia and DU operate using the Internet.”
Wow. What a moron.
Conservatism’s not a movement? If that’s what you and Burke believe, fine. But Burke was dead a long, long time before Goldwater ran for president. And I doubt any national conservative intellectuals would agree with you.
“The American people are no longer on the defensive. I believe the conservative movement deserves some credit for this.”
–Ronald Reagan, March 8, 1985
“Are you responsible for condemning every hateful thing somebody on the left, etc…”
No, and neither are you, but Rush is prominent enough in your movement to warrant a reaction. He has received none. No interest. Nothing. The most prominent, well-known non-politician conservative in the country, the man who’s done more to popularize the conservative ideology since the 1990’s — no reaction about his blatant racial hostility to Obama.
There’s no way to apologize or mimimize it, no matter how hard you try. His words have an impact. Any principled conservative movement or individual would denounce him. I guess they have bigger problems these days. Utter failure will do that to a movement.
Bush didn’t say the same things about Obama - he didn’t even mention his race, let alone use it as a basis for implicitly judging his personality.
No, and neither are you, but Rush is prominent enough in your movement to warrant a reaction. He has received none. No interest. Nothing.
And that’s probably because only his listeners and the odd voyeurs who waste 3 hours of their lives everyday listening to catch these kinds of statements even heard it!
According to Wikipedia (and I don’t know how accurate it is), Rush has 13.5 million listeners each week. That transforms into 2.7 million listeners a day which works out to about .9% of the population in this country.
Quite frankly, your calls for Limbaugh to be forced off the air are worse than anything he said. Apparently, you have no problem squelching free speech (regardless of whether or not it is offensive) and I find that kind of viewpoint disturbing.
“And that’s probably because only his listeners and … voyeurs.. even heard it!”
No, it’s because modern-day conservatives have no principled objection to racism.
“your calls for Limbaugh to be forced off the air are worse than anything he said. Apparently, you have no problem squelching free speech”
No. Free speech is between the government and the speaker, not radio stations and listeners. There is no constitutional right to avoid being pressured. Your comments are more of the same confused complaints against liberals in defense of public racism. Why do you feel so ardently that Limbaugh’s racism deserves special dispensation?
“No, it’s because modern-day conservatives have no principled objection to racism”
Says a guy who party leaders believe that we should look at the color of people’s skin to decide who gets a job, or into college.
Have you lefties no shame at all?
I’m not the one applauding Rush Limbaugh for hatefully mocking Obama as a “half-rican American,” Pedro. There’s no reason to hang on to that kind of hate toward black people. It doesn’t help you or anyone else. Why do you insist on it?
You know this tarring everyone with a broad brush is really dishonest.
Please show me where I mentioned one word of support for RL.
Which is more hateful: Burdening someone with the thought that their success in life is because a liberal felt sorry for them not being able to hack it, so gave them something because of the color of their skin, or some attempted one-liner comedy by a radio talk show host.
No, it’s because modern-day conservatives have no principled objection to racism.
No, its because 99.1% of the population doesn’t even know he said it.
I’m not the one applauding Rush Limbaugh for hatefully mocking Obama as a “half-rican American,” Pedro.
And who is?
Potraying Limbaugh as some marginal, little-heard figure among Republicans and conservatives is dishonest of you, Pedro and Jay. He is THE MOST INFLUENTIAL NON-POLITICIAN CONSERVATIVE IN AMERICA. His racism is not something to be ignored and apologized for. If you don’t care that your movement tolerates him, well, that’s one thing. But to falsely claim that he’s a nobody, and that his remarks don’t matter — it’s a simple lie, and a distraction from the outright racial hatred of his remarks. Why do you jump to his defense? What is it about his racism that makes you feel so protective?
the straw man is getting old….no one h has defended anything about RL.
But you HAVE totally avoided the question about YOUR racist behavior supporting affirmative action..
’nuff said.
Gosh, it’s REALLY unfair to expect you to defend the most famous member of your sad, failed personality cult when he says something racist, and your fans all laugh it off. Boo hoo.
Potraying Limbaugh as some marginal, little-heard figure among Republicans and conservatives is dishonest of you, Pedro and Jay.
The only one being dishonest is you. I never said he was a “little heard of figure among Republicans and conservatives.” I said that the overwhelming majority of Americans don’t listen to his show and that’s 100% right.
He is THE MOST INFLUENTIAL NON-POLITICIAN CONSERVATIVE IN AMERICA.
Says who? Where did this consensus come from? Do 2.7 million people per day make up the majority of conservatives in this country?
Why do you jump to his defense?
Stop with the intellectual dishonesty Doc. Nobody here is defending him. You’re getting your panties in a wad because you’re not able to prove that Rush is some sort of Svengali-like figure that has some sort of mind control over tens of millions of people.
Gosh, it’s REALLY unfair to expect you to defend the most famous member of your sad, failed personality cult
Now it’s a failed personality cult? I thought it was a movement?
Make up your mind will you?
No. Free speech is between the government and the speaker, not radio stations and listeners. There is no constitutional right to avoid being pressured.
I didn’t notice this before. While you calling for Limbaugh to be taken off the air is not unconstitutional per se as you are not asking for legislation to passed to have it done, you’re still pissing on the spirit of the first amendment when you believe the solution to combating speech you don’t like is just to have it taken off the air.
That’s the cowards way out. Your point of view is consistent with the point of view of the idiots who push the unconstitutional ‘fairness doctrine.’ Liberals don’t have a big voice on talk radio? Then we’ll force them to do so. You don’t like what Limbaugh is saying? Let’s get him off the air!
Sad.
I think “pathetic” is more accurate than “sad”….
I’m glad you’ve conceded my points. We agree that Rush Limbaugh is the most famous, influential conservative in America. We agree that he reaches more people than any other conservative with the exception of a very few national politicians. We agree that when he says overtly racist things his remarks are tolerated and even approved by his millions of conservative listeners. Your explanation is that conservatives don’t care. Thanks for agreeing with me, Jay!
What I don’t get is why you think that the silence of conservatives on Limbaugh’s overt race-baiting is worth defending. Why do you think conservatism should continue it’s sordid relationship with racism? Southern conservatives have done so much damage for so long — why do you want to perpetuate that damage, even ideologically? I mean, apart from the conservative movement needing the electoral votes provided them by southern conservative racists.
We agree that Rush Limbaugh is the most famous, influential conservative in America.
No, we don’t agree.
We agree that he reaches more people than any other conservative with the exception of a very few national politicians.
Nonsense. I’d say there are a half a dozen bloggers that reach more conservatives than Limbaugh.
What I don’t get is why you think that the silence of conservatives on Limbaugh’s overt race-baiting is worth defending.
Oh so now it’s the silence of Rush’s listeners that I’m defending? I thought before I was defending Limbaugh’s racism?
Southern conservatives have done so much damage for so long — why do you want to perpetuate that damage, even ideologically?
Yeah because we all know that once you cross the Mason-Dixon line in this country, all racism ceases to exist. Please send me a ticket to your Fantasyland. Walt Disney would be impressed.
I mean, apart from the conservative movement needing the electoral votes provided them by southern conservative racists.
Gee, that’s funny. Last time I checked it was the mid-west state of Ohio that tipped the election in favor of Bush. And when did Florida suddenly become a hotbed of southern conservative racists? Now you’re just being dumb.
Wow, line-by-line. Too bad there’s no content. Sort of a nerf-fisking.
If there’s any conservative, let a alone “a half a dozen bloggers” who “reach more conservatives than Limbaugh,” please back that up. I will accept that Pat Robertson might be, but bloggers? That’s easily measured, and I strongly, strongly doubt that you could show, say, Malkin or LGF reaching a bigger audience than Limbaugh. But since you believe it, show it. There’s a reason Rush got that that eight-year, $285 million contract. It’s because advertisers understand what you don’t: that Rush has a unique and gigantic audience that no one else does.
“Oh so now it’s the silence of Rush’s listeners that I’m defending? I thought before I was defending Limbaugh’s racism?”
Whatever your many confusions, you’re certainly clear on one thing: Limbaugh’s racism is nothing to worry about. Live and let live! Are you so touchy-feely when it comes to lynchings, too? In what other ways do you enjoy morally debasing yourself?
But on conservative silence: millions of people heard it. Liberals talked about it. Conservatives and other moral cretins ignored it. I have no idea what’s going on in your mind; it’s the continuing saga moral failure of conservatives when it comes to race that I’m primarily interested in, rather than your own particular cowardly “hear-no-evil” contribution to it, Jay. But since you brought it up: are you a white racial conservative, by any chance, Jay? Do you get real worked up about “welfare mothers” and real, real sick of hearing about Katrina? Ever had approving thoughts about Larry the Cable Guy?
“it was the mid-west state of Ohio that tipped the election in favor of Bush.”
I’m talking about the GOP/conservative base, not the swing voters. The base consists of white Southerners. The “solid South” of racial conservatism, where Limbaugh-style racial hostility is tolerated.
Wow, line-by-line. Too bad there’s no content. Sort of a nerf-fisking.
If there’s any conservative, let a alone “a half a dozen bloggers” who “reach more conservatives than Limbaugh,” please back that up. I will accept that Pat Robertson might be, but bloggers? That’s easily measured, and I strongly, strongly doubt that you could show, say, Malkin or LGF reaching a bigger audience than Limbaugh. But since you believe it, show it. There’s a reason Rush got that that eight-year, $285 million contract. It’s because advertisers understand what you don’t: that Rush has a unique and gigantic audience that no one else does.
“Oh so now it’s the silence of Rush’s listeners that I’m defending? I thought before I was defending Limbaugh’s racism?”
Whatever your many confusions, you’re certainly clear on one thing: Limbaugh’s racism is nothing to worry about. Live and let live! Are you so touchy-feely when it comes to lynchings, too? In what other ways do you enjoy morally debasing yourself?
But on conservative silence: millions of people heard it. Liberals talked about it. Conservatives and other moral cretins ignored it. I have no idea what’s going on in your mind; it’s the continuing saga moral failure of conservatives when it comes to race that I’m primarily interested in, rather than your own particular cowardly “hear-no-evil” contribution to it, Jay. But since you brought it up: are you a white racial conservative, by any chance, Jay? Do you get real worked up about “welfare mothers” and real, real sick of hearing about Katrina? Ever had approving thoughts about Larry the Cable Guy?
“it was the mid-west state of Ohio that tipped the election in favor of Bush.”
I’m talking about the GOP/conservative base, not the swing voters. The base consists of white Southerners. The “solid South” of racial conservatism, where Limbaugh-style racial hostility is tolerated.
Wow, line-by-line. Too bad there’s no content. Sort of a nerf-fisking.
If there’s any conservative, let a alone “a half a dozen bloggers” who “reach more conservatives than Limbaugh,” please back that up. I will accept that Pat Robertson might be, but bloggers? That’s easily measured, and I strongly, strongly doubt that you could show, say, Malkin or LGF reaching a bigger audience than Limbaugh. But since you believe it, show it. There’s a reason Rush got that that eight-year, $285 million contract. It’s because advertisers understand what you don’t: that Rush has a unique and gigantic audience that no one else does.
“Oh so now it’s the silence of Rush’s listeners that I’m defending? I thought before I was defending Limbaugh’s racism?”
Whatever your many confusions, you’re certainly clear on one thing: Limbaugh’s racism is nothing to worry about. Live and let live! Are you so touchy-feely when it comes to lynchings, too? In what other ways do you enjoy morally debasing yourself?
But on conservative silence: millions of people heard it. Liberals talked about it. Conservatives and other moral cretins ignored it. I have no idea what’s going on in your mind; it’s the continuing saga moral failure of conservatives when it comes to race that I’m primarily interested in, rather than your own particular cowardly “hear-no-evil” contribution to it, Jay. But since you brought it up: are you a white racial conservative, by any chance, Jay? Do you get real worked up about “welfare mothers” and real, real sick of hearing about Katrina? Ever had approving thoughts about Larry the Cable Guy?
“it was the mid-west state of Ohio that tipped the election in favor of Bush.”
I’m talking about the GOP/conservative base, not the swing voters. The base consists of white Southerners. The “solid South” of racial conservatism, where Limbaugh-style racial hostility is tolerated.
Wow, line-by-line. Too bad there’s no content. It’s sort of a nerf-fisking.
If there’s any conservative, let a alone “a half a dozen bloggers” who “reach more conservatives than Limbaugh,” please back that up. I will accept that Pat Robertson might be, but bloggers? That’s easily measured, and I strongly, strongly doubt that you could show, say, Malkin or LGF reaching a bigger audience than Limbaugh. But since you believe it, show it. There’s a reason Rush got that that eight-year, $285 million contract. It’s because advertisers understand what you don’t: that Rush has a unique and gigantic audience that no one else does.
“Oh so now it’s the silence of Rush’s listeners that I’m defending? I thought before I was defending Limbaugh’s racism?”
Whatever your many confusions, you’re certainly clear on one thing: Limbaugh’s racism is nothing to worry about. Live and let live! Are you so touchy-feely when it comes to lynchings, too? In what other ways do you enjoy morally debasing yourself?
But on conservative silence: millions of people heard it. Liberals talked about it. Conservativ