Like Kryptonite To Stupid
Once again atheist folks are demonstrating their superiority by belittling the people who believe in religion. Why is this necessary? What purpose does it serve? It just annoys and doesn’t enlighten anyone.
Everyone rightly bemoans the “my God is better than your God” logic of religious extremists, but coming up right behind is “my non-God is better than your imaginary God” of the atheist crew. Why so much haterade?
See their website here.
Politics 2008 Election Republicans Conservatives Iraq Media Democrats George W. Bush Barack Obama John McCain Humor Hillary Clinton 2006 Election Uncategorized Links NFL Oliver's World Right Wing Media Redskins Race Newsweek Maryland Terrorism Sports Movies Religious Right Fox News Mitt Romney Economy Women Racism Liberal Media Michael Steele Liberals Rudy Giuliani Fred Thompson Superman News Black Conservatives Television Comics Democratic Congress John Edwards Immigration History Ben Cardin Economics Technology U.S. Attorney Scandal Global Warming Crime 9/11 Al Qaeda Al Gore Bill Clinton Dick Cheney Iran TV Religion Site Stuff Joe Lieberman Education Democratic House Republican Culture Of Corruption Democratic Senate Stem Cell Research The Politico Useful "Liberals" Intelligent Design Supreme Court Science Weird Media For McCain Kirsten Powers Health Care Fox News Channel Guns Free Speech Books tba2007 Video Abortion Atheism Progressives The Washington Post Foreign Policy Katrina World Bob Ehrlich Mike Allen Business America David Broder Hillary Clinton's Experience Washington Post Virginia Washington D.C. Jessica Alba Energy Stupid Things Entertainment 2005 Election Martin O'Malley Gay Marriage Instapundit Ron Paul Snoopgate Howard Dean USA Glenn Reynolds Military MSNBC Hugh Hewitt Nancy Pelosi Virginia Tech Massacre GOP Bigot Eruptions Fox News Democrats D.C. Evolution National Security Doctor Who OW Radio Blogs CK MBAPBSAllAmericaDem Anti-Gay CNN Space Jamaica The Truth Army Advertising BBC New York Times New Orleans Disney Mark Penn Chris Matthews Dumb Liberals First Amendment Freema Agyeman Torchwood Zen! Trade Tom DeLay Torture The War The Daily Show Karl Rove Jon Stewart 163 John McCain And Airbus 209 Hillary Hate Wal-Mart Health Glenn Beck Homeland Security Howard Kurtz Weblogs Football Afghanistan James Carville Legal Music Art CIA Michelle Obama Sean Hannity Republican Bigot Eruption Brent Bozell Obama Haters Bob Barr Bill Richardson Regulation Bill Kristol Senate AP Current Affairs Libertarians Taylor Marsh Olympics Alaska Subprime Conservativies Clenis Social Security Media Research Center Conservative Alan Colmes
rAmen.
have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
Oliver, in a recent AlterNet piece I reveal that “atheist” Sam Harris, whom you complained about earlier on the blog, is actually a New Age mystic who thinks his mishmash of Buddhism, Hinduism and Time-Life Mysteries Of The Unknown is better than your religion.
I dont think its haterade at all. Well maybe a bit from the more aggraviting kind of atheist, but its really more a sort of devotionary claim to faith. As the site explains saying “I, , being of sound mind, heretofore forsake the holy spirit,” would, if the bible is true, condemn a person to eternal torment. Its sort of a test of faith then, distinguishing between people who merely doubt the numerous contradictions in the bible versus those who have reached the conclusion, however they may, that God does not exist. If they fully believe in this they have the right to profess their faith, and granted it may be crass for them to do so explicitly for a copy of “The God who Wasnt There” but is this any more offensive than people who openly profess their belief in a specific interpretation of this one book about this one guy two millenia or so ago on the opposite side of the planet, just so they can get intangible rewards in the hereafter? They’re just professing what they believe, not harassing people, so how exactly are they being asses?
I think that if you are surrounded, night and day, year after year, with stuff you didn’t believe in, you’d get testy too.
Besides, people hated mormons when they first started talking smack, too.
Doesn’t make it right. I’m not religious and surrounded by religion, but I don’t lash out at Christians in general (just those who pervert it like the religious right).
“I think that if you are surrounded, night and day, year after year, with stuff you didn’t believe in, you’d get testy too.”
Hell yeah. Think about all of the liberals who get pissed off when they hear the media report the same bullshit lies over and over again.
You get frustrated, then you get angry.
And if you think other people’s religion doesn’t affect us, do a little research on the HPV vaccine.
There were religious people who were willing to let women die because their religion. And it wasn’t them saying, ‘I’m willing to die because my religion says this.’ They were saying, ‘Other people should die because my religion says this. It doesn’t matter what they think.’
Any time you take faith and put it ahead of reality the results can be devestating.
RELIGION CAN KILL.
It’s about time people started fighting back.
What’s the complaint, exactly? Someone has a web site that doesn’t enlighten and can be annoying?
I’ll chalk this up as one of your throwaway posts. I don’t really see you as one of the “there are two kinds of people in the world” people.
“Atheists” as a group have done nothing. They aren’t a group. Neither are “people who believe in religion”.
Americans live in a culture soaked in the message that “you are going to spend eternity damned to torment unless you obey the will of my God.”
There’s a web site where people who view the above message as fear-based fantasy can voluntarily make a statement along the lines of: “I won’t be scared into believing your fantasy.”
Big. Deal.
I’m sorry man, I’m not getting how this even needs to be made right. What is wrong about professing your faith in whatever you believe? Not imposing it on others, not harassing, just the act of saying so. What exactly is wrong with what they’re doing?
I dont know if youve ever been inclined to read Dawkins’ “God Delusion” but it is a fascinating read, not least of all for how atheism itself is treated. There is a general sort of zeitgeist in the american mindset right now that believes that atheists are somehow inferior to believers, and dawkins provided statistics (somethng around %15 of americans say they would ever vote for an atheist) and anecdotes (an atheist actually threatened with violence by the police for protesting a faith-healer) that illustrate the sort of cultural bias that they have to deal with. You seriously going to begrudge them coming together and saying “this is what I am?”
LMAO, yeah. People get treated like shit most of their lives, and Oliver Willis is concerned about their lack of civility. Maybe he should have gone to journalism school and applied to work for TIME magazine.
Why is it you guys won’t see how you sound just like the religious right? It’s my way or the highway for too many atheist folks, who tend to be liberal and don’t see the hypocrisy inherit in that. I’m not excusing how screwed up religion is, especially in America, but the answer to that is not saying “your God is dead”, etc. but just saying “ok you believe that thing, I think it’s crap but whatever”. See the difference? Instead too many of these guys just come off like Jerry Falwell because not only do they have a belief or non-belief but they have to say how much everyone else sucks for having one.
Of course the religious right was batshit insane on the HPV vaccine (in fact I wrote about it) but there’s a world of difference between saying those guys are idiots and deciding that all religion is crap and you’re not going to shut up about it.
Well, it’s not as funny as the FSM or that guy who went door-to-door in Utah preaching Darwinism, but it made me smile.
Frankly the thing about the article that bugged me the most is that the ABC News editor twice added a “[sic]” to misspellings of “Santa Claus” but didn’t add one when somebody failed to hyphenate “Spider-Man”. Just so you know where MY priorities are.
Why is it you guys won’t see how you sound just like the religious right?
The religious right has money, power, and an agenda to make people conform to their beliefs. Atheists have precisely none of these. This is why.
What atheist is forcing others to profess to believe in his absence of a God? What is this “my way or the highway” crap? Who’s ever said that? Yes there are assholes in every religion (atheism included) who will mock others for believing differently, by brother for instance was mocked by a loving christian for admitting as much in front of him, but it isnt a predominant tenet of atheism that everyone else is stupid for believing and more than a central tenet of christianity is that islam is teh stooped. They’re noncompatible, but not inherently confrontational. Its the asses on either side who are, yes. And there are indeed such things as atheist asses. People posting videos on Youtube saying basically just that they do not believe in God in any form are not these asses.
just saying “ok you believe that thing, I think it’s crap but whatever”
Well, that pretty much sums up my view on the matter.
Personally, I hope Jesus does come back and say “Oh. No, no, you got that all wrong.”
Oliver, there are several reasons why I think something like the Blasphemy Challenge is important.
1. It serves as a graphic reminder that there are many people who do not accept religious mysticism, and that they are all over the community. It has been far too easy for religion-pusher and right-wingnuts to say that atheists and agnostics are an immeasurably small minority who can safely be ignored. It also disabuses many of the notion that “Well there may be atheists in the USA, but *I* don’t know any!” Oh yeah, well here’s one living in your town you didn’t even know about! It is easy to ignore or demonize an “other” when you believe that “other” is “somewhere else” or doesn’t exists.
2. Apparently there are many communities in the US that are happy to have displays like this.
The “Darwin Fish” got started for the same reason: people who favored evolution or disfavored religion got fed up with other people’s shoving their religiosity in their faces all the time, and wanted some way to show off what they felt. Just as Democrats and liberals can’t afford to cede the media to right wing Fox News punditry (or otherwise we’d never be able to get a message out), we can’t afford to surrender all public space or mind space to the Jesus-freaks. If they get to define what “normal” is all the time, freethinkers will always be on the outs.
3. Anything that can work fatuous assholes like John Kasich into this big a lather has just got to be a good thing, doncha think?
I saw the Kaisch vs. atheists on Fox and I thought it was probably a draw. Though it was funny to see Kaisch have his panties in a bunch, he was able to dominate the conversation. The atheist’s guys responses were decent though.
While I think challenging some of the negatives about religion is great and I would encourage it, I would agree with Oliver’s point, atheists could be a little less smug and know-it-allee.
Why is questioning people’s religious beliefs wrong? Why are religious folk exempt from criticism on these beliefs? We actively argue on matters of politics, and of other affiliations (e.g., sports). Why can’t someone say, “Hey, you know something? I don’t think God exists, and these are the reasons why.”
Seriously, as an atheist, I’m sick of religion being thrown in my face at every turn. Certainly was more of a problem when I lived in Kansas (I’m in L.A. now) but still…
Atheists truly are vilified in our culture. We’re practically social lepers, even though our beliefs are, unquestionably, more grounded in observable reality than the beliefs of religious people.
Oliver, I gotta disagree with you… strong and steadfast atheists are not simply the mirror image of crackpots like Falwell. That’s demonstrably untrue, and incredibly insulting.
mambo is right, Oliver. There is no symmetry to the situation.
Read on about the person who believes in religion denying the rape victim the second of two prescribed Plan B pills.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/1/30/0139/40875?detail=f
Now try to find a story about the atheist not allowing a rape victim to pray.
Count me among those that believe that all of the various Sky-gods are myths. So I’m not sure why people trouble you who try to bring light to the belief that the sky-gods, all of them, are a bunch of hogwash. Whether it be God, the Holy Spirit, Mohamed, the Goddess Tara, Jesus as the son of a virgin woman and the Holy Spirit, or any other Sky-god. They aren’t real Oliver. They are just a figment of man’s imagination that has been promulgated through the ages as a means to take, achieve or hold power.
I agree. This is very silly.
I didn’t say the power of atheists is equal to the power of the religious right. That would be asinine. But that doesn’t excuse you acting like them. There were more racist whites than pacifist blacks in 1950s America. Blacks could have been violent but they weren’t. It’s an extreme example but you don’t have to become like your opponent to beat him.
In general, atheists are as bad in their beliefs as the believers they mock. Prove to me that there’s no God, Yahweh, Allah, Phil Of Insufficient Light, etc. You can’t, no more than I could prove that they exist. The dogmatism of the believers on either side is exactly the same. You guys walking around saying God is fake is exactly as annoying (though with less power) as the guy telling me I’m going to burn in a lake of fire unless I send him a love gift of $29.99 while operators stand by.
Same. Thing.
While I don’t share the atheistic belief system, you’ll hardly find someone more sympathetic but the language of “sky-gods” just turns people off. Why is it so hard for you guys to believe what you believe without slagging everyone else? Yes, you believe there’s no God. Awesome. Nothing bless you. But don’t be an ass about it. I don’t like it from the religious right who I disagree with on practically everything, I certainly don’t like it from the people I agree with more often than not.
I want separation of church and state, I want evolution taught in schools, I think kids ought to learn about global warming. But I’m not telling you you’re going to hell for being an unbeliever so don’t automatically call me an idiot because I think there’s A Purpose To Life.
Wow… goddam now I have to be the one to get vulgar disagreeing with our illustrious host.
O-dub, you could not be more fucking wrong about this. Firstly your case that there is no argument that can be made toward the nonexistence of god is flatout wrong. Saying these arguments are invalid or incorrect is one thing, but saying “it cant be proven” is wrongheaded in the extreme, not least of all because atheism is the null hypothesis whereas theism is the theory that should be proven.
While you can think whateer you like about god (in all honesty I’m more believer than not) the fact is that it is the structure of religion itself that is the problem. There is no real church of atheism, no temple, no atheist leaders (ok, Dawkins maybe) and no organized structure. Religion is destrutive because it denies debate about what you believe and tells you who will be punished eternally in what ways for such minor offenses as not having water splashed on yur face. A ten year old’s close friend dies in a car accident, and because that friend was a protestant, that child knows for the rest of his life and eternity that his friend is suffering undying hellfire and torment, agony in scales immeasurable to man and everlasting torture to crush what little remains of his soul. As a result of the Falwells and Dobsons of the world wanting notoriety, power and a seat on sunday talk shows, the mentally oppressive structure of the church gives this child nightmares and robs him of his innocence in a time of grieving. Conversely, as a result of a few atheists not being ashamed of what they are, you are made to feel uncomfortable at the sight of some of them saying what they believe on Youtube. Bit of a gap there I think.
you don’t have to become like your opponent to beat him.
Fuck you in the nostril. Name a single goddam atheist who has ever suggested that their belief in lack-of-god leads them to think that anyone is less human than they are for whatever reason, be it gender, sexuality, color, nationality, what have you. Name a one. (I’m not counting insults of intellect here, those fly around everywhere, I’m talking degradation of humanity the way one religion for instance persecutes another because of their view of them as being inferior)
Provided you cant, then we have the religious right on one side, people with power, an agenda, and a desire to deprive others of rights. On the other side we have atheists, which bother you because a few of them are dicks, and abpparently the reason theyre dicks is because theyre willing to be public about being atheists. And youre seriously under the impression that the two are at all alike?
It was Oliver Willis’ original post that I agreed with.
I personally believe that time travel is not only possible, but happening all the “time” (ugh). WW II never happened until Dr. Who f*cked up the time line thanks to the repeated interference of the Enterprise, but nobody remembers that because, obviously, all their memories and the entire world at large got “updated” the second history got re-written.
I’m open to discussion if someone can prove me wrong.
After that we can address my theory that we’re all Cylon hybrids and when we die we’re actually resurrected on a distant base star. Deja Vu is just a glitch in our programming…or the Matrix….whatever. Remember, the Force will be with you…always.
I just don’t get it, Oliver. Why can’t there be a legitimate discussion about the veracity of God’s existence? What do you want atheists to do? Because they’re an extreme minority, they should keep their mouths shut? Because their understanding of the world makes other people uncomfortable, they should shut up?
That’s not like you.
Secondly: There is a very strong case to be made that atheists have it right. God doesn’t exist. Read The God Delusion and maybe you’ll “convert.” But to say that a belief in no God is simply the converse of a belief in God (which has no basis in observable reality), and that both ideas are equally likely to be true, is just completely wrong. Rex is right… if we were framing it as a scientific question, Theism would be the alternative hypothesis, the one that would need to be demonstrably true with some degree of certainty. Burden of proof is not on the atheists’ hands.
Finally, I’m going to repeat… it’s wrong and insulting to say that atheists are doing the same thing as the wacko Christians. Let’s imagine a meeting between me and Jerry Falwell:
Jerry: “Hello, it’s good to meet you. Say… is that a Black Sabbath t-shirt? Don’t you know that’s the music of the devil, son?”
Me: “What’s up Jerry. Yeah, it’s Sabbath. But I don’t believe any of that stuff about God and Satan and whatnot. I’m an atheist.”
Jerry: “Oh, well I’ll pray for your soul. But you’re very misguided, son. If you don’t find Jesus, you’re doomed to a lake of enternal fire, where demons will sodomize you and eat your flesh. The Bible tells us so.”
Me: “You’re a dick, Jerry. I am an atheist because there’s no empirical evidence for his existence. The Bible, for example, is merely a novel written by man; there’s no way to demonstrate that it was written by them as dictated by God himself. Besides there being a lack of evidence, what makes you think your God is more likely than Allah, Zoroaster, Vishnu, or Zeus? Give me a GOOD reason. Finally, there’s a strong logical case to be made for the lack of parsimony inherent to religious beliefs. God existing is simply more complicated than his non-existence, and adds nothing to our power to explain the world.”
Jerry: “Hellfire! Hellbeasts! Dying, over and over! Burning, searing pain! SOOOODOMY!!!!
Me: “Fuck you, Jerry, you’re a dick. And you’re wrong.”
Yes, Oliver, there’s a WHOLE lot of similarity in the tactics of the two sides.
Whenever I hear people talking like that (mambo’s Jerry Falwell), and it seems to be pretty often, I just can’t help thinking they’re making shit up.
“My imaginary friend can beat up your imaginary friend.”
Feh.
I overheard my girlfriend’s sister-in-law and stepmother-in-law at a holiday discussing atheism. The s-i-l didn’t get it (devout catholic). Anita, the S-m-i-l tried to explain that atheists , and I’m quoting, “don’t beleive in anything.”
I felt it necessary to correct her and said, “No, that’s anarchists. Atheists just don’t believe in God.”
God is nothing more than Man’s attempt to explain away the unexplainable.
Atheists want proof. That’s all. No sense getting all shrill about it.
I miss Frank. We used to have such fun on these matters. I would bring up the argument from parsimony on the unlikelihood of God’s existence, and he would fall all over himself trying trying to respond to it, even though it was obvious that he didn’t understand my argument. Oh, the memories…
Why’d he have to go off and call someone a catamite?
Frank apparently is actually swearing off blogs altogether for a while, and as some anonymous guy claims, he is now better spending his time on a special project that may revolutionize the world as we know it or something. Yeah I miss him too though… Think I managed to break his brain open when he started trolling my blog, he made like a dozen comments and just ended up deleting them.
Yes, for the record, I was not trying to start any rumors as to the cause of his banishment. I was simply asking the question “Is this why?”
Oliver told me why, and that’s perfectly understandable.
Frank wasn’t banished for calling S a catamite. He was temporarily suspended for hi-jakcing threads.
Like the song goes,
Please don’t dominate the rap, Jack,
If you got nothin’ new to say.
I asked Oliver “is this why?” and he said no.
Oh, I see. That’s fair.
This post is so annoying… If it were not for people like Dawkins and Harris I would still be confused about what I am… So I have to beg to differ with Oliver. People like me who couldn’t understand why they could not accept what they were being fed day in and day out needed people like them to stand up and say something… Now I am perfectly content and very happy with not believing… No more searching. I’m done. Now I can really enjoy and be amazed at life.
I have listened to and read a lot from Dawkins/Harris and others and I have yet to see any of them call anybody an idiot!!! Please point this out to me! All I have seen is them stating what they believe and saying why… What exactly is wrong with that?! The closest I have seen to either of these people calling anyone stupid is Dawkins challenging anyone going to that religious school labeling the earth as being 6000 yrs old. He told them they should change schools. Anyone who still believes that IS a little off!.. I’m sorry.
Well, I disagree with you for all the reasons I’ve learned from Dawkins. Religion makes people do bad things; and the indoctrination of children disgusts me. I don’t think religion should be a taboo subject. Believers don’t resist criticizing adherents to other religions or even to atheists, why should we?
I can’t stomach the “wounded puppy” attitude religionists take when somebody actually challenges their beliefs.
They make like they’re the perpetual victims when they actually run the show.
I don’t preach my “atheism” in other people’s faces, but I can’t count the number of times I’ve had religion preached in mine.
It’s time to put these ancient fairytales to rest.
Because the time has come to do away with this nonsense once and for all. God-myths are silly superstitious nonsense. They should be treated accordingly. All myth-believers should be treated like people who claim that their tin-foil hate keeps out the alien mind-control devices. They should be made fun of and ridiculed.
All myth-based religion i evil. I see no reason to be civil when you are dooming our entire species to never ending war.