John Kerry Responds

It’s no surprise that the party of Iraq, Katrina, and 9/11 is worried about the coming election and has resorted to yet another attack on John Kerry to rile up the con base. What is surprising is how strong a response Sen Kerry has put out. I’m reproducing it in full, because if he had been this tough in ‘04 he would have won. And the Democratic campaign that is this tough in ‘08 will win.

Senator John Kerry issued the following statement in response to White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, assorted right wing nut-jobs, and right wing talk show hosts desperately distorting Kerry’s comments about President Bush to divert attention from their disastrous record:

“If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they’re crazy. This is the classic G.O.P. playbook. I’m sick and tired of these despicable Republican attacks that always seem to come from those who never can be found to serve in war, but love to attack those who did.

I’m not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox’s Parkinson’s disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq. It disgusts me that these Republican hacks, who have never worn the uniform of our country lie and distort so blatantly and carelessly about those who have.

The people who owe our troops an apology are George W. Bush and Dick Cheney who misled America into war and have given us a Katrina foreign policy that has betrayed our ideals, killed and maimed our soldiers, and widened the terrorist threat instead of defeating it. These Republicans are afraid to debate veterans who live and breathe the concerns of our troops, not the empty slogans of an Administration that sent our brave troops to war without body armor.

Bottom line, these Republicans want to debate straw men because they’re afraid to debate real men. And this time it won’t work because we’re going to stay in their face with the truth and deny them even a sliver of light for their distortions. No Democrat will be bullied by an administration that has a cut and run policy in Afghanistan and a stand still and lose strategy in Iraq.”

THESE ARE THE STAKES: You can vote for a party that gets mock outraged at twisting someone’s words, but doesn’t bat an eye at 3,000 Americans dying for no good reason - or you can vote for the Democrats.

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184 Responses to “John Kerry Responds”


  1. Gravatar Icon 1 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    The more focus on how our troops are dying for nothing, the better for Democrats. Fox and the GOP are really hurting if they think this will be a productive avenue.

  2. Gravatar Icon 2 StarkyLuv

    He needs to speak these words ON TELEVISION.

    Jesus, it’s 2006 and he doesn’t know that the vast majority of Americans believe:

    “It aint true if it aint on T.V.”

    But it is an excellent response. This is the type of spine-straightening real-talk Dems need to use on Rethugs. Bullies ALWAYS BACK DOWN when you show them that you’re not afraid of them.

  3. Gravatar Icon 3 Jody

    I must confess, I’m glad to see Kerry had this in him. I was royally disappointed in his 2004 performance.

    He must no longer be listening to the usual beltway insider fops. Good for him.

  4. Gravatar Icon 4 Robbie

    Oliver, I saw that during my lunch break and I couldn’t believe what I heard. My jaw dropped. I wish he was that hard-hitting two years ago when he was being Swift Boated.

  5. Gravatar Icon 5 JWG

    twisting someone’s words

    Un-freaking-believable! Please, be man enough to put his quote right up in your post. There’s no twisting what came out of his mouth.

  6. Gravatar Icon 6 dr pedro

    I agree a strong response to something like that would be appropriate…if you were RIGHT!

    Kerry basically said that it is only the drop-outs who go to war…what a load of bullsh*t. The american people see that sort of thing for what it is: A blue-blooded Boston Brahmin extolling the virtues of a ruling class so you don’t end up with the hoi-polloi in the military. Yea, get on tv with a vociferous response…that’ll help.

    You moron lefties are really trying to lose this one aren’t you?

  7. Gravatar Icon 7 Oliver

    Twist away, chickadees, twist away.

  8. Gravatar Icon 8 michael

    Pedro, you are aware that blue-blooded elitist John Kerry actually served in the military, are you not?

  9. Gravatar Icon 9 StarkyLuv

    Christ in heaven, he mangled what he was trying to say. Get off it.

    And I just watched Kerry’s presser! THAT’S what I’m talking about!

    I especially liked the term “despicible Repbublicans”

    Whoot!

  10. Gravatar Icon 10 frameone

    He then said: “You know, education — if you make the most of it, you study hard and you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well.

    “If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

    A Kerry aide told CNN that the prepared statement, which had been designed to criticize President Bush, “was mangled in delivery.”

    Kerry was supposed to say, “I can’t overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq.”

    Now let begin the waves of Bush supporters who believe mangling the delivery of a joke or a talking point is the height of evil. Oh the irony.

  11. Gravatar Icon 11 william

    Kerry knows he “stepped in it.” A simple apology would have enough, but the arrogant fool couldn’t bring himself to do it.

  12. Gravatar Icon 12 frameone

    “Kerry knows he ’stepped in it.’”

    And how the fuck do you surmise that? Calling all idiot morons: What’s the most reasonable explanation?

    1) That Kerry mangled the delivery of a joke about Bush’s incompetent handling of Iraq.

    2) That Kerry, a Vietnam veteran, really believes that anyone who ends up in the military is there because they’re dumb.

    Be honest. Oh wait, JWG, Pedro and William have already proven themselves incapable of honesty. Indeed, the entire right wing has proven that it is incapable of honesty. Oh well.

  13. Gravatar Icon 13 william

    frameone,

    I agree that he probably mispoke and botched a lame joke…so friggin’ what. He insulted folks and should apologize, but his royal highness isn’t man enough to apologize. He deflects and blames others instead. It’s sickening display of arrogance.

  14. Gravatar Icon 14 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    Sickening, William? Only to someone who hasn’t been paying attention to world events.

  15. Gravatar Icon 15 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    Half a million dead Iraqis. Thousands of dead Americans. Save your bile for a more worthy target, William.

  16. Gravatar Icon 16 Oliver

    I don’t know if it’s just me but I think a guy from Maine who went to Yale, never held a real job in his life, and got out of serving in Vietnam thanks to his politician father’s connections is the real “blue-blooded elitist”.

  17. Gravatar Icon 17 PD100

    It’s not a huge stretch to conclude that Kerry was insinuating that people of lower aptitude join the armed forces.

    Case in point.

    What are wingnuts getting their stateside deferred knickers in a bunch over?

  18. Gravatar Icon 18 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    I thought he was saying that if you don’t learn anything in school (as in, GWB) then you make bad decisions (as in, our enormous strategic error in Iraq). What’s so hard to understand, wingnuts?

  19. Gravatar Icon 19 Nimrod Gently

    No no no no no no, George isn’t an elitist, he’s one of the boys! You can tell by the way he messes up words and says really stupid shit like “these are the results from the fiscal year starting February 30th”! He’s just a guy! LOOK OVER THERE A THREE HEADED MONKEY

    What’s so hard to understand, wingnuts?

    Someone on the other team said something genuinely powerful against their team and it’s not fair.

  20. Gravatar Icon 20 Nimrod Gently

    Besides, how is this not an apology? He admitted he made a mistake and then tore apart the GOP pitbulls for trying to turn it into a mallet to hit him with.

  21. Gravatar Icon 21 frameone

    “. It’s sickening display of arrogance.”

    You admit that he made a mistake, that he didn’t really mean what it sounded like he said. And yet you are “sickened” by it?

    Following on the good Dr.’s comments I’ve got a mistake you should be sickened by, William. It’s called Iraq. Has Bush taken any personal responsibility for the cluster fuck that he created over there? Of course not. It’s all the doing of the “generals on the ground.”

    You and your right wing brethern have some pretty fucked up priorities, William.

  22. Gravatar Icon 22 dr pedro

    typical left hypocrisy at it’s finest here at OW’s….

    A few posts up, one of the denizen yes men say’s that Kerry mispoke. Ok, so why not just say “I mispoke”? You have oliver here with the hallelujah chorus extolling the virtures of his “comeback”. So now you are supporting the vociferous backing of a mistake? Yet GWB has to apologize personally to every american everytime he says “nuculur”?

    How do you people look at yourselves in the mirror…

  23. Gravatar Icon 23 frameone

    “How do you people look at yourselves in the mirror…”

    I’d probably respond this part of your post, pedro, if any of the rest of it actualy made any sense.

  24. Gravatar Icon 24 JWG

    how is this not an apology? He admitted he made a mistake

    Please point to the exact words that express admittance to a mistake and/or an apology.

    What’s the most reasonable explanation?

    That Kerry is repeating the same mistake he made 30 years ago when he testified to the Senate about Vietnam. He maligned the troops and then later tried to claim he was really criticizing the administration…only his actual words were very clear…as they are now.

    In other words, if you truly respect the military, it’s impossible to call them losers without realizing you misspoke and correcting it right away. Why couldn’t he just explain he misspoke and apologize?

    And how many people on this very blog have argued the point Kerry made? Since frameone is the arbiter of honesty, I await his disagreement with the argument that the military is full of intellectual losers.

    I’m sure I’ll be waiting for a long time.

  25. Gravatar Icon 25 Jody

    People who support George W. Stimpy shouldn’t try to rake Kerry over the coals for his mangling of one sentence.

    Nuff said.

  26. Gravatar Icon 26 JWG

    Nuff said.

    Except the corollary is that people who rake Bush over the coals for his misstatements shouldn’t get upset when the same thing happens to Kerry. Additionally, Kerry makes it a habit to “misspeak” about US troops:

    Kerry 30 years ago: US troops “reminiscent of Genghis Khan”

    Kerry last year: US troops “terrorizing kids and children, you know, women”

    Kerry today: US troops don’t “make the most of it…study hard…make an effort to be smart”

  27. Gravatar Icon 27 Nimrod Gently

    JWG:

    A Kerry aide told CNN that the prepared statement, which had been designed to criticize President Bush, “was mangled in delivery.”

    Kerry was supposed to say, “I can’t overstress the importance of a great education. Do you know where you end up if you don’t study, if you aren’t smart, if you’re intellectually lazy? You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq.”

    Wow, I’m an observational genius or something. Since more or less your entire argument past that point is predicated on the idea that the statement in that quote doesn’t exist, nothing else you said - including the questions you asked - are relevant.

  28. Gravatar Icon 28 Nimrod Gently

    Also, get a dictionary. Look up the word “context”. Then beat yourself repeatedly on the head with it.

    Make sure it’s a nice sturdy dictionary. I suggest the complete OED.

  29. Gravatar Icon 29 Jody

    Wow, JWG.

    You actually think bringing up GW’s endless record of doltish statements is sufficient argument to attack Kerry. Better, even, because you think it somehow paints some sort of equivalence between the two.

    Somehow that argument is less than compelling: “See? Kerry’s a fraction of the idiot Bush is! Gotcha!”

    And you might want to wait for Bush to, you know, actually support the troops with the body armor, funding, and manpower they actually require before going on about how Kerry isn’t supporting them.

    Once again, good for Kerry. I hope to see him take it to Bushco more in the future. Lord knows they deserve it.

  30. Gravatar Icon 30 JWG

    the statement in that quote doesn’t exist

    Let’s see…

    1) Kerry DOESN’T say what the aide claims he meant to say

    2) Kerry has a history of insults about US troops

    3) Kerry, nor anyone else, corrects the obvious “mistaken” insult

    4) Hours later the Kerry camp comes up with the supposed “real” quote

    5) Kerry never apologizes for the wrong statement which could not be taken as anything other than an insult

    6) The joke’s on Kerry:
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/07/yale_grades_portray_kerry_as_a_lackluster_student/

  31. Gravatar Icon 31 JWG

    You actually think bringing up GW’s endless record of doltish statements

    Um, genius, who brought up Bush’s statements? I responded to your argument. Use logic much?

    you might want to wait for Bush to, you know, actually support the troops with…

    Yes, I recall Kerry saying “I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it”. Are you saying Kerry was voting against the troops? Really?

  32. Gravatar Icon 32 Jody

    I clearly brought up his statements. And once again, since it seems to have gone over your li’l head, I’ll repeat my obvious point nice ‘n slow:

    “Folks as sit at the feet of Preznit Misunderestimate shouldn’t oughtta go on about how dumb someone else sounds.”

    And when I brought that up, you leapt on it, as if it would give ammunition to your argument. Shameful. Shameful and embarrassing.

    And, once again, slowly, pleeeease explain how Bush’s genuine, provable, and proven lack of support for the troops is overshadowed by Kerry’s admittedly annoying nuanced little shpiel. On second thought, don’t, because it’ll only be another five paragraphs of weapons grade bullshit.

  33. Gravatar Icon 33 JWG

    Since Oliver loves his little quote, “”Look, over here, shiny thing!!!!”, how about we play a little game called:

    What Kerry is really saying, “Look, over here, shiny thing!!!!”

    How many times does Kerry’s nonapology try to distract attention from his “mangled” statement?

    P.S. I’m still waiting for Nimrod to explain how Kerry has apologized.

  34. Gravatar Icon 34 Oliver

    If you’re apologizing, you’re losing. If Kerry had made an apology the GOP would say the same thing they are saying now - Kerry hates the troops. That’s going to be the GOP spin, and they would make noise about it either way. Better to have a cycle where Kerry is hitting back rather than one where he’s just adding on to the GOP pile.

  35. Gravatar Icon 35 JWG

    as if it would give ammunition to your argument

    I can’t believe you’re so stupid that you’re continuing to try to argue your point. You said Bush lovers shouldn’t criticize Kerry’s blunder (since Bush screws up a lot). I showed you that your argument is illogical since the opposite is also true: those who think less of Bush because of his misstatements aren’t in a position to defend Kerry’s blunder without being hypocritical.

    In other words, BOTH sides can make the same worthless argument (like you did). I was not making the counter argument as a way of defending Bush or attacking Kerry. I was showing you how dumb the argument was.

    If you’re not embarrassed by your inability to follow that simple logic, then the shame is all yours.

  36. Gravatar Icon 36 don surber

    Why not apologize?
    Why not say, “I muffed the joke — my target was the president — I apologize to all the servicemen, all the vets and certainly all who have made the ultimate sacrifice.”
    All this jazz about “real men” is nonsense. A real man apologizes when he makes a blunder like this

  37. Gravatar Icon 37 JWG

    Better to have a cycle where Kerry is hitting back

    Shorter OW: “Look, over here, shiny thing!!!!”

    Thanks for the laugh!

  38. Gravatar Icon 38 Oliver

    Don: If Kerry apologizes, you and the rest of the right say “See, Kerry just admitted he hates the troops”. You’re never going to give him the benefit of the doubt, why should he ever concede to you guys?

  39. Gravatar Icon 39 Oliver

    JWG: Yes, a stupid joke by John Kerry is exactly the same as a month where we lost the lives of 101 people in Iraq for no good reason.

  40. Gravatar Icon 40 frameone

    “…only his actual words were very clear…as they are now.”

    JWG, you just disqualified yourself from any further intelligent discussion. What an idiot hack.

  41. Gravatar Icon 41 JWG

    is exactly the same

    John Kerry: “I won’t apologize, and hey…Rush Limbaugh is fat and made fun of that sick guy on Family Ties.”

  42. Gravatar Icon 42 JWG

    why should he ever concede to you guys?

    He’s not conceding to “you guys,” he’s apologizing to the troops he honors for messing up a statement and mistakenly calling them stupid.

  43. Gravatar Icon 43 factcheck

    william said
    I agree that he probably mispoke and botched a lame joke…so friggin’ what. He insulted folks and should apologize, but his royal highness isn’t man enough to apologize. He deflects and blames others instead. It’s sickening display of arrogance.

    I agree with you william- when will Rush Limbaugh apologize to Michael J. Fox

  44. Gravatar Icon 44 JWG

    What an idiot hack

    Yes, I admit that Kerry’s nuanced way of attacking wartime administrations by calling the soldiers murderers, terrorists, and uneducated losers is beyond my feeble intelligence.

  45. Gravatar Icon 45 JWG

    when will Rush Limbaugh apologize to Michael J. Fox

    Look, over here, shiny thing!!!!

  46. Gravatar Icon 46 frameone

    “Since frameone is the arbiter of honesty, I await his disagreement with the argument that the military is full of intellectual losers. I’m sure I’ll be waiting for a long time.”

    Because I missed this little challenge earlier: Go FUCK yourself, asshole.

    Where the hell is your disagreement with an administration that has so woefully misued its public trust to put US troops in harms way with no plan for them to succeed?

    The nerve of you hacks is beyond the pale.

  47. Gravatar Icon 47 factcheck

    jwg, just stfu, you and your fellow cons are making fools of yourself. The only thing is you should know better. At least you used to know better… now you’ve reverted to being just another disguisting Bush sycophant. Unfortunately your love for your president won’t wash your hands clean of the 3000 troops that have been killed.

  48. Gravatar Icon 48 frameone

    Look, over here, shiny “thing!!!!”

    OMFinG! You are unbelievable. This whole manufactured outrage over Kerry’s mistatement is an attempt by this administration and its mushbrained supporters to distract from its horribly failed policies in Iraq. It’s simply astonishing. Kerry makes a verbal mistake and you idiots jump all over him.

    Bush actually makes mistakes that get US soldiers killed and you cheer him on.

    Simply pathetic.

  49. Gravatar Icon 49 Elrod

    Kerry clearly misspoke. I don’t buy the whole “history of hating the troops” crap because his 1971 comments had an important context too. The issue is: should Kerry have apologized for muffing the joke and accidentally insulting the troops? Or would that have done little good for him, as Oliver says, and resulted in only further harm? Frankly, I think it’s a toss-up. The honorable thing is to apologize. But politics isn’t honorable. Nobody ever accepts apologies in politics.

    My only complaint was that it serves as a distraction. Kerry has been irrelevant to the Democratic Party since November 3, 2004. Why inject himself now?

  50. Gravatar Icon 50 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    The GOP desperation is delicious. Mmm, more, please!

  51. Gravatar Icon 51 factcheck

    Wait can we play take things out of context with JWG!

    “Yes, I admit that Kerry’s nuanced way of attacking wartime administrations by calling the soldiers murderers, terrorists, and uneducated losers is beyond my feeble intelligence”

    becomes:

    “Yes, I admit, soldiers murderers terrorists, and uneducated losers.”

    Why JWG! You dispicable fool. Apologize for your smearing of the troops NOW!

  52. Gravatar Icon 52 frameone

    “The honorable thing is to apologize.”

    Ah, yes, of course. The honorable thing to do is for Kerry to apologize for a meaning he never intended, while idiot right wing hacks like JWG can continue to write shit like this:”…only his actual words were very clear…as they are now” long after Kerry has made his explanation public.

    And as for Kerry injecting himself now, please. Kerry did not “inject” himself into anything. Desperate, scumbag republicans, like JWG, seized on a misstatement to distract from their party’s horrible, tragic record on foreign policy and national security.

  53. Gravatar Icon 53 Oliver

    Democrats must apologize for screwing up jokes.

    Republicans can send troops to die for no reason, allow New Orleans to drown, let a terrorist attack happen on their watch, run up the deficit and cover for a pedophile with no apology required.

  54. Gravatar Icon 54 JWG

    Where the hell is your disagreement with an administration

    Fuck you right back. Try doing a search on this blog and you’ll find that I have disagreed with many Bush policies. But like so many leftists, you cling to your simplistic stereotypes and assume that to attack Kerry is to worship Bush. Kerry is hated by millions of veterens like me, and this is just another example why.

  55. Gravatar Icon 55 JWG

    Why JWG! You dispicable fool. Apologize for your smearing of the troops NOW!

    Factcheck, I will admit that you are the master of all logic if you can show me how Kerry’s words were distorted. Please tell me what words he uttered were erroneously left out of his quote.

    Oops! I guess your point was stupid.

  56. Gravatar Icon 56 dr pedro

    Yea Ollie, Kerry definately looks like “more of a man” by not apologizing. That is why democratic congress are wondering…”Kerry screwed up 2004, guess he is trying to screw up 2006 too”

    But it is good to see the real soft underbelly of the american leftist…

    Even if you MAKE a mistake, straight denials and launch a vicious attack against the other party. This is considered “honorable” amongst the leftist, win at any cost, the ends- justify- the -means democrats. Gee where did we see that before? A blue dress? I did not have sexual relations with that women, vast right wing conspiracy.

    You must be so very proud…..glad to see Kerry is “keeping the dream alive..”

  57. Gravatar Icon 57 Sundown

    JWG,

    Have you personally met “millions of veterans”?
    (Or “veterens”, as you call them?)

    If not, shut up.

  58. Gravatar Icon 58 Bill L.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFsaGv6cefw

    Just Google “army recruitment +lowered standards” and wonder how letting in the trash is “supporting the troops.”

    Kerry summarizing testimony from vets in Vietnam:

    [Veterans] told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

    Kerry on poor tactical decisions in Iraq:

    no reason… that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the–of–the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not…Iraqis should be doing that. And after all of these two and a half years, with all of the talk of 210,000 people trained, there just is no excuse for not transferring more of that authority.

    So there you have the real Kerry quotes, absent wingnut editing. That should also put to rest any notion that any apology from Kerry would be received with anything less than absolute scorn and derision. JWG makes that pretty clear by insinuating that the statement issued after Kerry’s goof today was cobbled together to cover his ass and that Kerry just plain hates the troops, as his savagely edited quotations “prove.”

  59. Gravatar Icon 59 JWG

    Kerry just plain hates the troops

    I don’t think he hates the troops. He just thinks the majority are uneducated hicks without the ability or opportunity to do anything better with their lives.

    That’s a typical leftist viewpoint. Do any of you want to claim you don’t think the military is full of uneducated rubes who were forced or tricked into joining the military because they couldn’t do anything else? Why not just admit that you thought Kerry had it right the first time?

  60. Gravatar Icon 60 dr pedro

    Great bill, so using the old “people said” frees one from any responsibility regarding the accuracy of the statements?

    Lets try this another way…

    GWB “According to reports from British Intelligence, the Iraqi’s have been attempting to buy yellow cake from Niger…”

    So we are all good on that one right?

  61. Gravatar Icon 61 frameone

    “Try doing a search on this blog and you’ll find that I have disagreed with many Bush policies.”

    And your position on Iraq is …

    Idiot.

  62. Gravatar Icon 62 midderpidge

    Gosh, maybe those Republicans have something and Kerry said that without bungling it. He could even be right as it stands. After all, recruitment is down and they have had to lower standards in several different ways. I mean that rape/murder guy Green got in because they lowered the psycho guy standards and admitted him.

  63. Gravatar Icon 63 michael

    On the plus side, this is the first time in 4 years that Bush has made any indication that he gives a goddamn about the troops.

  64. Gravatar Icon 64 JWG

    And your position on Iraq is …

    I want us to win. What does that have to do with Bush other than Bush wants us to win as well? Is it possible to have the same goal but disagree on how to achieve that goal? I know the terrorists want us to leave Iraq. Since you do as well, should I assume you support the terrorists? Of course not. The real “idiot” is the one who depends on simplified stereotypes rather than evidence and logic.

    Have you personally met “millions of veterans”?

    I don’t need to: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Veterans%20Vote.htm

    So you “shut up.” Nyah Nyah.

  65. Gravatar Icon 65 Sundown

    JWG.

    The link you mentioned only asked about voting. It didn’t say that the military voters “hated Kerry”.

    Therefore, you are a liar, and unless you repent, you will lose your eternal soul.

  66. Gravatar Icon 66 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    JWG: you want us to win! Hooray! I want my Enron stock to be worth something again, too! We should start a club!

  67. Gravatar Icon 67 frameone

    “I want us to win.”

    Gee, and I want us to have a plan to win. See the difference?

    Of course not.

  68. Gravatar Icon 68 frameone

    “The real “idiot” is the one who depends on simplified stereotypes rather than evidence and logic.”

    Oh that’s too rich. Aren’t the moron who just spent a whole thread arguing that Kerry hates the troops even after you knew that he misspoke?

  69. Gravatar Icon 69 buma

    Kerry made a few good points. The GOP ‘Katrina foreign policy’ was a good label.

    Don’t forget to reward incompetence and vote Republican next week, Marty.

  70. Gravatar Icon 70 buma

    Lets try this another way…

    GWB “According to reports from British Intelligence, the Iraqi’s have been attempting to buy yellow cake from Niger…”

    The reason why his speechwriters had bush say ‘from Africa’ and not ‘from Niger’ was because they feared how he would mispronounce Niger.

  71. Gravatar Icon 71 buma

    To jwg, whose wishes are ponies:

    You’re not just repeating this week’s GOP talking point, right?
    Let’s start with your definition of winning, in the context of our occupation of Iraq. Go ahead and list the major accomplishments that would constitute a win there. We could then see how [well] [poorly] our GOP leadership has done thus far in achieving those goals, and thus gauge the [likelihood] [remoteness] of ultimate victory.

  72. Gravatar Icon 72 Bill L.

    Where did I endorse any sort of a “people said” position?

    The YouTube video is a collection of personal anecdotes and actual, verifiable statistics.

    The plummeting standards (and ethics) involved in meeting recruitment goals has been an ongoing farce for the past several years. A simple Google search will bury you in source material.

    Plenty of veterans gave sworn testimony on the atrocities committed in Vietnam, and history has proven much of it to be tragically accurate. That wasn’t the point, however, in putting up the quote. Earlier JWG had made it seem that Kerry had compared the troops to Ghengis Khan when in fact he was referring to the testimony of other veterans. If you read his Vietnam testimony in full, it is clear Kerry is mainly concerned with placing blame on those who started and perpetuated the conflict and not the soldiers.

    The same problem arises with JWG’s attempt to frame a Kerry statement as being offensive to the troops by labeling them as terrorists (terrorizing kids). In fact, Kerry was talking about the questionable policy of continuing to have U.S. troops conducting searches in Iraqi homes when a supposed force of trained Iraqis (a White House and Pentagon fiction) would have been better suited to the task. His point about a bunch of U.S. servicemen bursting in and tearing up the place as being terrifying to children and disrespectful of Iraqi cultural norms (and hence fuel for anti-American sentiment) was entirely correct. More to the point, it hardly rises to the level of calling the troops terrorists or of being disdainful of our armed forces. Again, though, the main thrust of his argument was that the current administration and its tactical decisions in Iraq are the problem, not the troops.

    So where in all of that are the “people said” arguments?

  73. Gravatar Icon 73 frameone

    But Bill, JWG wants us to win. That’s all that’s needed for the conservative brain to feel all warm and happy. Actually thinking through the strategy of how we’re going to win, well, the conservative brain isn’t so big on that. We’ll stand down as they stand up, they say, never stopping to think for one second that in the process we might be arming one side in a long festering sectarian dispute that has no interest in “standing up” for our sakes. Today we found out that’s exactly what we’ve been doing as the Iraqi prime minister is telling us when and where we can set up roadblocks because he doesn’t want to upset the most prominent sectarian militia leader in the country. Today turned out to be “We stand down, when they say so.” I’m sure that will only lead to good things in the future.

    Of course, no one on the right wants to talk about the fact that the democratically elected government of Iraq might not be our greatest ally over there. The conservative brain would rather talk about what Kerry said, rather than think about what Bush should do about actual real news. Which is typical of the modern conservative movement. They like to pick the easy wedge issues that require little more than hot air to get the job done: “He attacked our troops,” “He hates America.”
    They aren’t interested in actually doing anything, let alone leading.

    That’s why Bush is going on Rush’s show tomorrow. You couldn’t have a better suited pair: A couple of do nothing blowhards desperately trying to rub the stink of manure off themselves. They deserve each other. If only they weren’t getting people killed as a result.

  74. Gravatar Icon 74 Nimrod Gently

    P.S. I’m still waiting for Nimrod to explain how Kerry has apologized.

    You just have a blind spot for being proved wrong, don’t you?

    I’m getting pretty tired of the Seinfeld strategy, you know. Kudos to Kerry for refusing to engage in the latest outrage about nothing.

  75. Gravatar Icon 75 JWG

    Kudos to Kerry for refusing to engage in the latest outrage about nothing.

    So you take back your earlier statement that he apologized, right? I’m too much of a simpleminded idiot to understand how I got “proved wrong,” so explain to me how you just flipped from

    “how is this not an apology?”

  76. Gravatar Icon 76 JWG

    Oops! How many Dems are canceling their appearances with Kerry? I’m sure glad everyone here proved me wrong about Kerry! He’s swell.

  77. Gravatar Icon 77 Nimrod Gently

    a) You’re starting from the position that the two are mutually exclusive, which is what is known in Foundation Logic class as a faulty first premise

    b) I didn’t say you were a simple-minded idiot (although since you brought it up I wouldn’t rule it out), I said you had a blind spot for being wrong, or at least for sound arguments against you and your side. You seem happy enough reinforcing that image about yourself

  78. Gravatar Icon 78 JWG

    The link you mentioned only asked about voting. It didn’t say that the military voters “hated Kerry”

    60% of veterans favored Bush to 33% favoring Kerry. That’s an overwhelming margin well beyond any other group. Why do you think that is? After all, Kerry served in Vietnam, you know. Oh, yeah, and Bush was AWOL. You’d think the percentages would’ve been reversed.

  79. Gravatar Icon 79 Nimrod Gently

    You can’t discern intentions from numbers, for crying out loud. Face it, you’re reaching.

  80. Gravatar Icon 80 Dugger

    Well, one thing is for sure. Kerry crapped in his messkit big time. He’s definitely out in 2008 and this is a further blow to the left wing of the Democratic party wherein Kerry resided. With Lieberman crushing media and progressive darling Lamont, the party apparatus will move to the center. The stars of the party are clearly the adults - Democratic centrists (not the same as a ‘centrist’) like Obama and Hillsy.

  81. Gravatar Icon 81 Nimrod Gently

    I would say this enhances his chances in 2008, which previously were approximately zero. Also stop with the “far-left” bullshit. No-one in the front rank of the Democratic party is as far left as, say, me. Ned Lamont is a centrist. John Kerry is a centrist. Not “Democratic centrists”, actual centre centrists. You can try as hard as you like to characterise the Dems as an extremist left-wing movement, but all one has to do to prove that wrong is look these people up on the Internet.

  82. Gravatar Icon 82 factcheck

    good observation nimrod. Note that whenever I ask what “far left” views these candidates hold they come up with they come up with views shared with about 75% of the country.

  83. Gravatar Icon 83 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    Center, far-left, progressive, whatever. As long as the GOP’s menagerie of magical thinkers, idiots, liars, and lunatics are driven from power, our country will be infinitely better off.

  84. Gravatar Icon 84 JWG

    they come up with views shared with about 75% of the country

    That must explain why there are so many Democrats in office, right?

  85. Gravatar Icon 85 factcheck

    jWG, What “far left” views does Ned Lamont have? Hillary Clinton? John Kerry?

    The reason cons are in office for now is because your party is good at making America focus on unimportant things like this controversy rather than the things that really matter. Too bad you’re not intelligent enough to see through all of their rhetoric.

  86. Gravatar Icon 86 JWG

    Too bad you’re not intelligent enough to see through all of their rhetoric.

    Yep…just like Kerry said…us dumb sheeple just end up serving in the military and voting for the wrong people. It must drive you nuts!

  87. Gravatar Icon 87 Nimrod Gently

    Answer the goddamn question. Name a far-left policy espoused by Kerry, Lamont, Rodham-Clinton, or anyone else in the front ranks of the Democratic party.

  88. Gravatar Icon 88 Dr. Anatole Gavage-Huskanoy

    A half-million deaths on our conscience, and this is what conservatives care about. It really says it all about our nation, doesn’t it?

  89. Gravatar Icon 89 Dugger

    The party is to the far left. ADA median between Republican and Democrat is 55%. Mike Dewine R and Sen Nelson D of Neb, for instance, are true moderates - close to that standard. Smokin Joe is 80% as is Sen Nelson Fla. - Liberal/moderates. Senate leaders Kerry, Schumer, Durbin, Reid are all 100% - far left. Pelosi 95%. So unless you think the ADA is controlled by Karl Rove (or maybe you are simply cognitively impaired), you must admit the party leadership is to the far left.

  90. Gravatar Icon 90 factcheck

    usual Dugger non-answer. Thank you for proving my point.

  91. Gravatar Icon 91 JWG