While I can’t say I’m happy with a bill that allows the president to just deem anyone he likes a terrorist (even an American citizen) and deny them rights and torture them (detail here - there’s nothing stopping the President from deciding that liberal bloggers are Al Qaeda agents and throwing us in jail for the act of disagreeing with him and his administration), I’ve got to not be the only one who thinks that this bit of cynical election year work can remotely pass constitutional muster? Right?
Even dominated by the right-wing, the Supreme Court slapped down the administration’s nonsense in the Hamdan case. I’m no legal eagle, but this bill, shoved through in weeks before an election, just doesn’t seem like its gone through any sort of strong constitutional test.
Be that as it may, however, this should begin to show the left the important role supreme court nominations have taken on, and yet another important reason we must have a Democratic president to appoint the next few - whose spots will be opening up soon. Weak Democratic opposition led to Roberts and Alito sliding in with no problem, but it isn’t too far out of bounds to see a Republican president appointing crazies like Ted Olson or Ken Starr to the high court and continue the transition in our nation from representative democracy to torture-friendly facsism.
Too often liberal discussions about the Supreme court have stopped at "Roe" (and the liberal groups charged with fighting the Supreme Court battles did a horribly inexcusable job), when in fact the court touches on so much more - and we need to get our vote out based on that.
So what happened to the Democrat bill?
This was a perfect opportunity for Democrats to put together a piece of legislation that succinctly articulated their views on detainment and interrogation of terror suspects. Even if it had no chance of passing, it would have been an effective “see, this is what we will do if we are returned to power” strategy.
This bill is just election year grandstanding. Oliver is right that this bill doesn’t pass constitutional muster. Everyone knows this: the democrats, as well as the republicans.
“So what happened to the Democrat bill?”
Typical. The Republican congress passes a disgusting, anti-democratic bill and it’s all the Democrats’ fault. What has to happen before conservatives stand up and take responsibility for what their party of choice is doing to this country? Cowards.
Now that the President has the authority he sought, see a tongue-in-cheek visual of the Grand Opening of “Tortureland”…here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Mike, Dems did not have the power to write the bill, and House Democrats were prevented from offering any amendments. Senate Democrats were allowed to propose four amendments but those were rejected.
There you have Republican leadership in action. Propose and pass torture legislation — prevent the minority party a voice.
“There you have Republican leadership in action. Propose and pass torture legislation — prevent the minority party a voice.”
Then blame the Democrats for the result …
I’m concerned about the supreme court angle myself, not about whether or not the “President as Unquestioned, Unchecked Dictator Bill” will be ruled as unconstitutional, even with this right leaning bench it probably wont pass muster, but how will the issue be brought up? For sucks fake, we already have been doing this ungodly crap for years. Part of the problem is that they’re being denied trial, and can now indefinately be denied a trial by this bill. Doesnt a supreme court ruling come at the end of a process started by that first trial? The one where the US would (and now doesnt) have to explain why they are keeping a particular brown person holed up in jail, unable to see his family and not even told what his crime is supposed to be? I’m hoping theres another way to bring this to the Supreme’s attention and that my ignorance of it can be so very short lived, but I’m just saying that I dont see it now, and I think figuring out how that happens is a more pressing issue than pointing out that Mike for instance proudly supports destroying the constitution so long as it gives the people he voted for more power than any person should have in a “democracy.”
Branding those in favor of the legislation as Voting Yes on the Torture Bill may be a good point to make in the elections. Perhaps a video that graphically portrays the new S/M methods approved by the majority party could help the WWJD crowd understand the implications.
crooks and liars had the rundown on the vote in the comments section, reposted below. How did your senator vote?
The votes are in. Say goodbye to Habeas Corpus America!! We’ve truly entered a dark time for the world.
Here are the real American Senators who voted Yea to strike Yea Akaka (D-HI), Yea Baucus (D-MT), Yea Bayh (D-IN), Yea Biden (D-DE), Yea Bingaman (D-NM), Yea Boxer (D-CA), Yea Byrd (D-WV), Yea Cantwell (D-WA), Yea Carper (D-DE), Yea Chafee (R-RI), Yea Clinton (D-NY), Yea Conrad (D-ND), Yea Dayton (D-MN), Yea Dodd (D-CT), Yea Dorgan (D-ND), Yea Durbin (D-IL), Yea Feingold (D-WI), Yea Feinstein (D-CA), Yea Harkin (D-IA), Yea Inouye (D-HI), Yea Jeffords (I-VT), Yea Johnson (D-SD), Yea Kennedy (D-MA), Yea Kerry (D-MA), Yea Kohl (D-WI), Yea Landrieu (D-LA), Yea Lautenberg (D-NJ), Yea Leahy (D-VT), Yea Levin (D-MI), Yea Lieberman (D-CT), Yea Lincoln (D-AR), Yea Menendez (D-NJ), Yea Mikulski (D-MD), Yea Murray (D-WA), Yea Nelson (D-FL), Yea Obama (D-IL), Yea Pryor (D-AR), Yea Reed (D-RI), Yea Reid (D-NV), Yea Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea Salazar (D-CO), Yea Sarbanes (D-MD), Yea Schumer (D-NY), Yea Smith (R-OR), Yea Specter (R-PA), Yea Stabenow (D-MI), Yea Sununu (R-NH), Yea Wyden (D-OR), Yea
Here are the loyal fascists to BushCorp who voted Nay- against habeau corpus Nay Alexander (R-TN), Nay Allard (R-CO), Nay Allen (R-VA), Nay Bennett (R-UT), Nay Bond (R-MO), Nay Brownback (R-KS), Nay Bunning (R-KY), Nay Burns (R-MT), Nay Burr (R-NC), Nay Chambliss (R-GA), Nay Coburn (R-OK), Nay Cochran (R-MS), Nay Coleman (R-MN), Nay Collins (R-ME), Nay Cornyn (R-TX), Nay Craig (R-ID), Nay Crapo (R-ID), Nay DeMint (R-SC), Nay DeWine (R-OH), Nay Dole (R-NC), Nay Domenici (R-NM), Nay Ensign (R-NV), Nay Enzi (R-WY), Nay Frist (R-TN), Nay Graham (R-SC), Nay Grassley (R-IA), Nay Gregg (R-NH), Nay Hagel (R-NE), Nay Hatch (R-UT), Nay Hutchison (R-TX), Nay Inhofe (R-OK), Nay Isakson (R-GA), Nay Kyl (R-AZ), Nay Lott (R-MS), Nay Lugar (R-IN), Nay Martinez (R-FL), Nay McCain (R-AZ), Nay McConnell (R-KY), Nay Murkowski (R-AK), Nay Nelson (D-NE), Nay Roberts (R-KS), Nay Santorum (R-PA), Nay Sessions (R-AL), Nay Shelby (R-AL), Nay Stevens (R-AK), Nay Talent (R-MO), Nay Thomas (R-WY), Nay Thune (R-SD), Nay Vitter (R-LA), Nay Voinovich (R-OH), Nay Warner (R-VA), Nay
Funny how all the R’s are on the side of enabling the Dictator in Chief.
Well, at last, now we will be able to torture whoever we want, whenever we want. Insiders are telling me that Bushco plans on selling (i.e., in return for political contributions)torture franchises to select political faithful. The franchise gives you the right to torture (on your own property, of course - we are not babrbarians!) those you suspect of being either terrorists, progressives or foreigners. I expect to receive a franchise in lieu of the cash payments I usually get for posting here. Have already got my Torquemada outfit (red cape, etc).
BTW. For all non progressives political managers reading this: Mr Rove said you might want to prepare your candidates to take advantage of another drop in gas prices - expected (ahem) as the elections near.
“Have already got my Torquemada outfit (red cape, etc).”
Oh that’s hilarious torture boy.
It’s nice to see that some people find our slide to the level of petty dictators and terrorists so amusing.
Dugger, you’re an asshole.
Who manages that franchise? KBR?
You know dugger, I used to think you were at least halfway sensible some of the time. Nice of you to clear that misconception up for me by laughing as America dies.
Wasnt even a funny joke either.
Found this;
http://www.davidcorn.com/archives/2006/09/this_is_what_wa.php
So, we have adopted policies similar to the Khmer Rouge. Awesome. At least we don’t use Stalinist practices, right, Dugger?
I mean, what’s next, turning in your neighbors; TV’s that watch you?
“funny how all the R’s are on the side of enabling the Dictator in Chief”.
Wow, Specter and Chafee are now D’s. who knew?
“Wow, Specter and Chafee are now D’s. who knew?”
Wow, four Republicans voted to strike. I guess that redeems the soul of the Republican party. On to the next legislative atrocity!
It doesn’t redeem anything, jerkoff. Read what he wrote, he said “all the R’s”, which means he doesn’t even read his own links.
“It doesn’t redeem anything, jerkoff.”
Damn right it doesn’t redeem anything. Beyond that all you’re doing is attacking some blog poster over a minor oversight while your party of choice has made torture our national policy.
Way to get your priorities straight, dipshit.
Okay, asshat, I was referring to “all the R’s” as in “look at all the R’s in this column.” I was not trying to say that only the R’s voted for terror. As for Specter and Chafee, well, it means my Senator is not as dumb as the rest of his party.
I apologize for my semantic error.
I think it can pass muster. Remember, congress can remove things from the SCOTUS’s jusirdiction. The court admitted that in Hamdan, the only question was timing.
Here, timing won’t be an issue
Remember, congress can remove things from the SCOTUS’s jusirdiction.
My question is, why would they want to? This whole bill just seems like such a bad idea.
“your party of choice”
While it does say “Republican” on my voter registration card, I’m gonna let you in on a little secret that you apparently missed in fourth grade social studies: Regardless of what party you’re registered, you can vote for whomever you want.
You seem to make the mistake of assuming anyone who disagrees with self-important left-wing jackasses is automatically a Bush and Santorum worshipper.
In fact, even though it’s none of your damn business, i’ll let you in on my choices in November:
Governor: Rendell (D)
Senator: definitely not voting for Santorum, but Casey is a worthless twit, so i still haven’t decided if I’m gonna vote for him or some whacky third party nut.
Congress: It’s pointless because most Philadelphia voters are mindless idiots and it won’t matter anyway, but I am voting straight Republican in local races, because on a corruption and incompetance scale, Philadelphia Democrats make Congressional Republicans look like honest choirboys.
And your position on the torture bill is ….
Oh and BTW, when you tell me that you’re a registered republican, that pretty much confirms that your “party of choice” is in fact the Republican party. Idiot.
duros
“military interrogators via the SERE [Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape] schools, where US military personnel are trained to resist torture if they are captured by the enemy”
Actually went through this in Washington state - back in the early 1970’s. Lots of fun.
And no Stalin murdered many many millions. We threaten with dogs and make terrorist suspect prisoners gain weight. But I can see how you might think that what we do is something even worse than Hitler. You and Sen Durbin.
H*ll, my Torquemada suit is too big. How am I going to torture those who don’t think like me without a costume. Whats the fun in that?
Jesus, could somebody please waterboard, Dugger?
But I can see how you might think that what we do is something even worse than Hitler. You and Sen Durbin.
I. Didn’t. Say. That.