Jim Gilchrist for President. If that happens and his campaign is remotely viable, the Democrat can start picking out his or her furniture from now. (that said, the story is written by racist and Swift Boat liar Jerome Corsi, so take it with a grain of salt - then again, who would know more about the inner workings of the racist minutemen than a fellow traveller?)
» Breaking News
Analyst: Only 4% Of Video Games Make Profit
AAA: Thanksgiving Travel To Drop For First Time Since 2002
Star Trek Uhura Poster With Zoe Saldana
More Jason Bourne Movies Coming
Britney Spears Jet Sets To Germany
Wow. Just wow.
Why does it matter? See:
Perot, Ross.
Nader, Ralph.
He would be running as a Constitution Party Candidate? From the Constitution Party platform:
“In accord with the views of our Founding Fathers, we must disengage this nation from the international entanglements which generate foreign hatred of the United States, and are used as the excuse for terrorist attacks on America and its people. The ‘war on terrorism” is not a proper excuse for perpetual U.S. occupation of foreign lands, military assaults on countries which have not injured us, or perpetual commitment of taxpayer dollars to finance foreign governments.”
Sounds like a bunch of Communist subversives to me.
http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php#Terrorism%20and%20Personal%20Liberty
I for one will donate the maximum to his campaign. That way I can contribute to the Dem nominee’s campaign twice- once for the Dem, and once to split the conservative racist xenophobe vote.
Let’s be honest. He’s got a better shot than John F. Kerry.
I would miss the NBA finals to watch a debate between McCain and
this guy. Burn both with one shot! Couldn’t happen to a nicer pair.
Yes, because the race is always between the Democrat and the Constitution Party candidate.
Why does this matter, OW?
Racist, bla bla bla.
I wish people would only use that allegation when it’s appropriate instead of using it when they can’t win a debate on the facts or merits of the case. In this case, that would be standing up for law breakers on your part, OW. For god’s sake, no one wants to stop immigration, but most americans realize that illegal immigration is absolutely out of control. That is what we want stopped. Anyone that has a poll showing otherwise, I’d love to see it. Even a large percentage of latinos agree with what I’ve said. Again, you got a (non-biased) poll, let’s see it.
The allegation of racism been so overused that it has lost it’s sting. People that have encountered real racism probably roll their eyes at you sometimes, OW.
Securing borders is not racist. Wanting immigration to be handled in a controlled, efficient, safe and logical manner isn’t racist. Standing up against people that have broken the laws of this country isn’t racist. And if you think it is, then to you, I’d be a racist, and I’m not going to lose any sleep over it.
With all due respect, you do a disservice to people that truly have suffered real racism by watering down and margainalizing this allegation simply to strike a chord with people to get political points.
Is there any political issue that you think ISN’T racist if it involves a white and a non-white? Just curious.
Does Cynthia McKinney guest-post here?
Good day all,
-MM
Funny how polls are so important to Moonbat on this issue, but they don’t matter when they say the Chimperor is considered to be doing a bad job by 2/3 of the population.
Yea, there are lots of hard right wing cons saying they aren’t Republicans anymore. Just because you’re ashamed of what you are/were doesn’t give your racist rantings any credibility.
factcheck….frankly, the chimperor sucks, and those polls are accurate, and they do matter. I for one don’t approve of the job George W. McCheaplabor has done, so don’t make assumptions. Republicans are horrible on immigration as well, almost as bad as democrats. Btw… I’m not a Repub either.
frameone…not quite….more like “debate the issues at hand instead of using bogus ad hominem attacks against people you disagree with to try and score points.”
and yes, criminal sympathizer is accurate, which means it’s not a cheapshot.
what the hell is a “marquis candidate”?
I’d rather have a “viscount candidate”. and OW, i’m pissed you made me load a WND page on my computer.
I like how any time someone says something that they don’t like, wingnuts (and wingnut trolls in libertarian disguises) yell “ad hominem”! it’s really just a blanket term for them isn’t it?
“In this case, that would be standing up for law breakers on your part, OW.”
In other words: “Stop calling us racists you criminal sympathizers.”
Finally, a red-blooded American is willing to call a spade a spade and call the GOP on their pandering to the left. Finally a man who doesn’t need to wear a prophylactic codpiece when he dresses up to make a speech.
By the way stwendeler, don’t pay any attention to what OW say. Just remember to vote for the minuteman if you don’t like the Democrat.
“… criminal sympathizer is accurate, which means it s not a cheapshot.”
So it racist. But if you want to debate the issues at hand, I believe that our current immigration problem is a direct result of economic imbalances between the US and its neighbors to the south (and other developping countries). These economic imbalances are exacerbated by trade policies that emphasize cheap foreign labor for global capital without any economic protections for the workers subsequently exploited. If we really wanted to deal with the illegal immigration problem we’d address these imabalances with a trade policy that emphasized a global minimum wage, the recognition of labor unions and the right to strike as well as global work place safety and environment regulations. None of this formed any significant part of NAFTA or our trade deals with China, where US capital went after it was done tapping Mexico. Immigration policy in this country needs reform, no doubt. It needs to be brought in sync with the reality of global capitalism. Until it is, the immigration policies in this country with regards to unskilled laborers and migrant workers is woefully unjust. I wouldn’t expect anyone who is desperate to feed their family to care one wit about crossing the border illegally. I believe we have to tackle this problem on a variety of fronts. Yes, we should stiffly fine US empoyers who hire illegal immigrants, especially those who hire them at exploitative wages and hours. Yes, we should increase border security but militarizing the border sends the wrong single and criminalizing poverty should not be our aim. We need to adopt a comprehensive worker visa program that puts people on a track to citizenship. We need to grant amnesty to all those currenlty here and allow them to enter a track to citizenship. In addition to this we need to enact aggressive new trade agreements that address the underlying economic disparity that drives illegal immigration. We need to use the promise of American capital to promote reform and economic justice around the world, not to increase misery and exploitation. But what’s your answer?
You want to control/incarcerate/criminalize human beings while allowing capital to jump from one market to the next on the hunt for more and more vulnerable populations to exploit. You would prefer a regressive response: higher walls, jailing the poor, militarizing the border etc. To achieve these ends you cry that we are being “over run” by an “invading army” not of people, but “parasites” who are a “threat to our way of life.”
Put it all together and you have a movement of reactionary racists who are less deserving of being called Americans than most of the hard working illegal immigrants I see all over Los Angeles where I live.
More suggested reading MM:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/immigrations-supplyand_b_18775.html
Here’s some suggested reading MM:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0425-30.htm
the Bush polls ARE meaningless….
the guy can’t run again, and unless he is impeached, he is here for the duration.
However, illegal immigration we CAN do something about, and the american people want the government to.
sorry, one more thing…
we do run the risk of seeing this country divided and balkanized without making an effort to have people assimilate. that will be the beginning of the end of this country as we know it. We need to be a country with a common language, values, and loyalties, not one divided by racial unity instead the best interests of the U.S.
It’s happened before in other places and rest assured, if nothing is done, it will happen here as well.
“Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
with silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
“And think for a second about this - If I and my family were to sneak into quebec, use their tax dollars, depress wages, steal jobs, and then march in the streets under a foreign flag while speaking English and demanding to be made citizens after showing no regard for their laws, how do you think I would be recieved?”
Just in time for spring, a new bed of straw to build a strawman.
frame one…..
i won’t even bother responding to your allegations of racism. I’ve already told everyone here where I stand on it.
but, a few other things…..
no, I do not blame them for coming here at all. I think the fault lies with the incompetent government of Mexico (for the most part) and the unwillingness of our government to actually address the problem.
I’d also like to ask you how you feel about the strain on social services, hospitals, crime and such that illegal immigration has caused. Seems to be common sense to take the necessary steps to put an end to that. As far as granting amnest to 12+ million people that snuck in here, how do you feel about people all over the world that have taken the necessary steps to enter this country, people that have waited years. To me, that seem unjust, and it’s a slap in the face to all of them, as well as to everyone that HAS done things the right way. Sorry to say, but no person anywhere has the right to come to this country. This is not a boarding house for the rest of the world and their poverty problems. This is a nation, (one at war remember) one with borders and laws that should be protected and respected. Neither is being done. Regardless of our economic policies, illegals should be deported, employers should be punished, the border should be secured, benefits should be immediately stopped for illegals, and a common sense program to give people a path to citizenship should be orchestrated.
Another question. Are you in any way a supporter of ANSWER or the Socailist Workers Party? Just wondering.
And think for a second about this - If I and my family were to sneak into quebec, use their tax dollars, depress wages, steal jobs, and then march in the streets under a foreign flag while speaking English and demanding to be made citizens after showing no regard for their laws, how do you think I would be recieved?
Maybe you will understand the anger many people have now over this issue.
Wait, isn’t that we we elected a “uniter, not a divider?”
“If I and my family were to sneak into quebec …”
I have a comment awaiting moderation but this just cracks me up. You set up Quebec as your nationalist strawman but then turn around in your next post and wail that “We need to be a country with a common language, values, and loyalties, not one divided by racial unity instead the best interests of the U.S.”
You do know that Canada is a bilingual country and that Quebec is the Francophone dominant provence in Canada, right?
“sorry, one more thing& ”
Boy, you just couldn’t resist the racist stuff. And after you tried so hard to keep a lid on it and pretend it was all about economics. The antivist bullshit just always creeps out doesn’t it?
Of course it really is all about economics so you may as well get the facts straight moon before you go off and make an idiot of yourself:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14216395.htm
Illegal immigration does tend to depress wages for people at the bottom of the income scale but then again, so to do anti-union policies of the conservative movement. Next time a conservative wants to pretend he or she gives a shit about depressed wages you can explain to me why Rebuplicans keep touting the economic recovery without mentioning the fact that real wages have been stagnant for five years.
And please don’t tell me you care about illegal immigrants taking advantage of the social safety net, by say, going to emergency rooms when they get sake when there are 40 million Americans without health care in this country who do the same. Naturally, of course, you are probably opposed to national health care. And while were at it, are you talking law and order to me? Are you kidding? Our freaking president has been breaking the law for years now and no one on the right seems to give one rat’s ass. Indeed, they’ve been making excuses for Bush’s unconstitutional torture and wiretapping. So no one on the right is earning any points with my by claiming they care about the economic and legal implications of illegal immigration.
Which brings us to this fairness issue. Is it fair to give amnesty to people who snuck across the border while others had to jump through all manner of bureaucratic hoops? First of all, who said you would give people automatic citizenship? Put em on a five year track to citizenship so they have to wait like everyone else. But remember, during that time they could work here with the same legal rights and protections that American workers have. Does that satify your sense of fairness? Speaking as a guy engaged to a Canadian who will soon be negotiating the very immigration paper chase you seem to hold so dear it sounds reasonable to me. BUt quite frankly, the whole “cutting in front of the line” argument is all hot air. If fairness for you is making people stand in line, that’s just great, go down to your grocery store and scold people with more than 10 items in the express line. I’m talking about real economic and social justice for the 21st Century.
Ah Quebec, a country that has almost become independent from canada at one point, which is why it can be used to show how language, etc. are important in unifying a country. Think about that one.
and i also used it because of its proximity to us here in the states (like uh…Mexico maybe to us?) and the fact that they do speak a different language than we do here. (in relation to chanting in Espanol, changing the anthem and so on) It came in handy, that good old Quebec in this point, eh. I shouldn’t have to explain this stuff. Sheesh.
call it a strawman if you want, but the situation I presented is exactly what is happening here. It’s not a hard concept to grasp. And if I am just so wrong, then there wouldn’t be growing anger from U.S. citizens over this issue. Be ready for a backlash against this push to legalize 12 million people that broke our laws, stole jobs, abused social services, then marched under foreign flags, changed our national anthem, and demanded rights and entitlements that can only be earned by taking the proper channels.
This display was arrogant, disrepectful, and insulting to most Americans, and you’ll see that soon enough.
I challenge anyone to show me a poll that states otherwise.
Thanks for the exchange, and everyone have a good night.
-MM
suggested links, and things that should be alarming to all americans. These are some of the people that you would legalize….
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/01/dobbs.immigrantprotests/index.html
http://www.wehategringos.com
This is about a lot more than people that are “just here to work.”
“Ah Quebec, a country …”
And, uh, Quebec ain’t a country. It’s a province of Canada.
midas well be a separate country though
Paul are you saying that Bush economic policies have led to full employment in the United States?
Why isn’t THAT on the cover of the NYTs?
sneaking into country illegally, draining social services, high crime rates, “stealing jobs + marching in the streets under foreign flag, changing national anthem, demanding things they have no right to = arrogant, disrepectful and insulting.”
Where are your facts for any of your assertions? Where are your statistics on immigrant strain on social services or high crimes rates or stealing jobs?
Here’s a link to an article that says your stealing jobs argument is wrong.
“Unemployment is 4.8 percent, close to what economists view as full employment. That means immigrants are basically filling empty jobs, not taking them away from U.S. citizens.”
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14216395.htm
I think the burden is now on you to prove the rest of your assertions.
nice strawman there with the carwash and produce picking guy….
follow me here, k…
sneaking into country illegally, draining social services, high crime rates, stealing jobs + marching in the streets under foreign flag, changing national anthem, demanding things they have no right to = arrogant, disrepectful and insulting.
again. show me a poll that indicates otherwise.
my bad.
“… which is why it can be used to show how language, etc. are important in unifying a country …”
Um, you could also look it at as an example of how a country can survive and thrive with a diverse cultural and linguistic heritage when policy decisions aren’t in the hands of frothing mad nationalist idiots. You know, people who write things like this:
“This display was arrogant, disrepectful, and insulting to most Americans, and you ll see that soon enough.”
What a totally ignorant ball of fear one has to be to think of some guy working at a car wash or picking produce for poverty wages “arrogant” and “disrespectful.”
“nice strawman there with the carwash and produce picking guy& .”
And why exactly is this is a strawman argument? Are you suggesting that most illegal immigrants don’t work and do nothing but collect welfare checks? I live in Los Angeles, in case you didn’t know. I encounter the people you call arrogant and disrespectful everyday. They are anything but. And they work their asses off at car washes, in strawberry fields, at fast food joints, construction sites, office buildings etc. etc. You simply have no idea what you’re talking about. Your running totally on empty talking points.
Add low wage growth to record high gas prices and you can understand why the Bush economy is nothing to crow about:
“The economy required about 27% less energy to produce a dollar of GDP last year than it did in 1986, according to the Department of Energy. But gas prices are hurting consumers because real wage growth has declined over the past four years. The American Automobile Association estimated that the average driver’s fuel costs will increase to 9.2¢ a mile, from 8.2¢. Not academic, since the average commuter covers more than 8,000 miles a year just getting to work and back.”
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/05/01/gas.prices.tm/
“Why isn t THAT on the cover of the NYTs?”
Understand now?
pedro –
Bush’s economic policies have also lead to stagnant wage growth for five years:
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_10292004
Here’s a more recent article:
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_20060111
“This is about a lot more than people that are just here to work. ”
Like I said, you tried real hard, moon but ultimately, racism will out. You just can’t help yourselves can you?
Just because he doesn’t have to run again, doesn’t mean polls are meaningless. You can’t really expect to do anything drastic if you don’t have the public’s support. Not to mention the fact that Bush’s poll numbers are essentially tied to the Republican party - if he falls, they all fall (granted the other side isn’t much better).
And, the Constitution Party’s might be the nuttiest of the nuttiest, but at least they don’t hide and tip toe around the fact that they want to make Christianity the official government-sponsored religion like the Republican Party does.
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002312.html
here’s a good article on the fiscal defecit cause by illegals.
They’re a burden on us, and to say otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
I just wonder how you’d feel frameone, if these were white immigrants?
and here’s another one in Florida, a state that doesn’t have near the problem they do in the border area.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_floridacostsstudy
read up.
like I said, call me a racist if you want. That is the tactic people use when they can’t win an argument on the merits or facts of the case. It’s a cheapshot, and everyone knows it.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_floridacostsstudy
here’s some stats about the cost of illegals….in florida mind you, not even on a border state. It’s ridiculous.
as far as stealing jobs, that is a fact also. simple common sense tell one that a person willing to work for a wage that is exploitative is going to end up with the job instead of a person here legally. Truth is, the jobs illegals do ought to be going to citizens of this country, and the wages should be more than they are. Our legal residents job opportunities are being undercut by them and it is flat out wrong. If people have to pay a little more for produce and such, so be it. That is the way it should be then.
And like I said, be ready for a backlash
here’s an article on crime as well. Honestly, if you can’t bring yourself to admit that the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high, I’m wasting my time, becasue you’re intellectually dishonest.
http://www.claremont.org/projects/local_gov/Newsletter/crimeimmigration.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002312.html
read up. Illegals are a burden. They cost us more than they pay in taxes.
Wow Paul, you beat your own record…5 consecutive posts!
“Bush s economic policies have also lead to stagnant wage growth for five years:”
So you’re saying that illegal immigration is leading to stagnant wages? Illegal immigrants are keeping down pay?
Hey Moon, why din’t you try a study that didn’t try to skew it’s findings by counting the costs of children who were born in the US and thus US citizens:
“Frank Sharry, director of the National Immigration Forum, an immigrant advocacy group, took issue with the report’s treatment of illegal immigrants’ U.S.-born children, who are American citizens.
“The costs of the children of immigrants are accounted for [in the report], but not their contributions to the economy as workers and taxpayers,” he said in a written statement, adding that the report’s conclusions were not helpful to the debate on immigration reform.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33783-2004Aug25.html
And pedro, I noted above that illegal immigrants depress wages for those at the bottom of the economic ladder but they have an overall negligable impact on the economy (see the Mercuty NEws link above). In additions, wages have been stagnant during the Bush years across the economy.
And moon, way to not acknowledge that your “stealing our jobs” meme is dead in the water. And how about those crime stastitics, my friend?
Your “good” article on crime opens:
“Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens.”
Nice unbiased analysis of the facts there. After citing a number of statistics not about overall crime rates but about the number of “outstanding warrants” the author adds: “Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis.” Great, so her facts are totally unverifiable.
And as far as stolen jobs, let’s let the facts speak for themselves okay?: Unemployment is 4.8 percent, close to what economists view as full employment. That means immigrants are basically filling empty jobs, not taking them away from U.S. citizens. (see link above) And like I also noted above, your concern for low wages is laughable in the face of conservative opposition to unions and the minimum wage.
That said, drawing illegal immigrants out of the shadow economy and into the mainstream will only help the situation. What you guys are proposing is the exact opposite.
The overall point is not that illegal immigrants don’t impact the economy, society or the culture. The point is, however, do not represent the overwhelming threat to our very existence that nationalist reactionaries such as yourself claim they do. Like I said, I live in Los Angeles and have lived in Southern California most of my life. California is the “frontline” of Latin immigration and I can attest that everything is fine. No need to worry. Stop soaking your head in right wing talking points and step out into the light. You’ll be okay, moon.
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_1_the_illegal_alien.html
good article on crime…
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/jcpp_20050805.html
and another above. keep your head in the sand if you want. guess it must make you feel better to ignore reality and facts. read that one above especially, it’s a real eye opener.
as far as the ‘meme’ goes, do you deny that wages have been depressed by illegals to the point that Americans have been undercut and therefore had the jobs essentially stolen from them? Honestly, do you really believe this isn’t happeneing?
That is what I’m referring to when I speak of stolen jobs.
There was a Jim Gilchrist was the theatre teacher at my Junior High, and he looked sorta like that guy, I wonder if that’s him? I must admit, I always thought Jim Gilchrist, the theatre guy, was a bit flighty, to say the least. Hmm
Interesting that moonbat posted links from OPINION journals, where frame posted links from peer reviewed studies or news articles.
Jim Kouri: Extreme RW columnist
City Journal: RW political magazine
“Honestly, if you can t bring yourself to admit that the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high, I m wasting my time, becasue you re intellectually dishonest.”
THis is just too fucking funny. Moon, not a single article that you cited gives statistics for crime rates. Not one. They cite costs of incarerations, recidivist rates within the already incarcerated population, outstanding warrants etc. but not overall crime rates of the illegal immigrant population and obviously then nothing comparative with the general American population. In other words, you’re taking a mishmash of at times unsourced statistics that have nothing to do with crime rates and simply saying, hey look at these high crime rates.
I guess that’s what passes for “intellectual honesty” these days on the right.
In the words of Hyman Roth, “He’s small potatoes.”
you wanted stats, i gav’em to ya.
enjoy the taste of sand, because you clearly have chosen to keep you head buried deep in it. illegals are a problem and the vast majority of americans (of all races) think so. Please tell me you’re not going to argue with that one. There’s gonna be a backlash against illegals now after this march yesterday as well, like it or not.
check up on ms-13, mecha, mexica movement, votre de aztlan and ANSWER. They were one of the driving forces behind this, and it’s safe to say, theyre’s another agenda at play with them.
would you really want to legalize those folks too? the bad element has to be weeded out and the flow of illegals completely cut off. illegals caught should be deported and employers harshly punished for playing a part in this problem.
There isn’t going to be open borders. Ever.
something else I always found hypocritical from the Mexican gov’t was their insistance of the U.S. to legalize their citizens who have broken our laws. Take a look at this here showing how Mexico treats illegal and LEGAL immigrants to its country. They have no right at all to even politely ask anything of us in regards to immigration.
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/Mexicos_Glass_House.pdf
Americans are sick and tired of their country being used as a boarding house for the rest of the world and their poverty problems. This is a nation like any other with laws that should be obeyed and boundaries that should be secured. No other country on earth would put up with the nonsense that has taken place here, and they shouldn’t. Neither should we.
thatisall.
good day,
-MM
“you wanted stats, i gav em to ya.”
Ya, stats that didn’t prove your claim that the crime rate for the illegal immigrant community is high. No stats whatsoever on the “stealing of our jobs” and stats on the social service costs from a study that has been challenged for distorting its figures and findings. All around a great job, moon, A true testament to conservative thinking.
This is a nation, (one at war remember) one with borders and laws that should be protected and respected. Neither is being done.
I agree but what about Canada? Are you going to place armed guards along the northern border? Build a wall ? Remember, that’s where the terrorists we have caught before they were able to carry out their plot came from.
Regardless of our economic policies, illegals should be deported, employers should be punished, the border should be secured, benefits should be immediately stopped for illegals, and a common sense program to give people a path to citizenship should be orchestrated.
I’ll agree with the last part but how are you going do deport all 12 million of them? Saying something and then doing it are two different things. If the solution were that simple, you can rest assured that Congress would have passed legislation a long time ago.
Let s be honest. He s got a better shot than John F. Kerry.
Would that be the same John Kerry who almost unseated an incumbent president, in wartime, despite allowing himself to be victimized by the most vicious smear campaign in recent presidential history?
Another sad case of KDS strikes the wingnut community.
I think I’ve got enough straw now, thanks!
Shorter Moonbat: I have no facts, but my gut tells me I’m right. And everyone knows that the gut has more nerve endings than the brain.
“Please tell me you re not going to argue with that one.”
Um, when you come up with actual poll numbers we’ll talk. Of course you haven’t even bothered to cite any poll numbers either.
It should also be noted that Moonbat failed to address the larger issue raised by the problem of illegal immigration, namely, the extreme economic disparity between Mexico and the US that US and other international companies have helped to create and sought to exploit. All the right wing wants is easy answers and obvious targets. They have absolutely no interest in actually addressing the root causes of illegal immigration.
you should actually read the info I posted instead of talking out your a**.
enjoy the taste of sand, and be ready for the backlash.
-MM
oh yeah, just wondering if you are for open borders?
the answer to that will tell me who I’m dealing with.
be honest now, sandeater.
Take your meds moonbat. They’re good for you.
“you should actually read the info I posted instead of talking out your a**.”
Um, I did. Please direct us all to the actual passage where we can find the crime rate statistics that prove your statement, “the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high.” Or the statistics that prove “illegals are stealing our jobs.” Or the statistics that illegals that prove illegals place any more of a burden on our social services than other working poor populations. While your at it, would you care address the larger issues of unfair free trade agreements and economic disparity that drive illegal immigration? Of course you won’t. Because I know exactly who I’m dealing with. Another idiot conservative jacked up on a steady diet of xenophobia and fear. Like factcheck says, get back on your meds and the voices will go away.
should have said “leave them mumbling about ‘libruls’”.
I love it when these wingnuts, steeled from years of listening to Rush and Hannity, come here with their talking points from the closed loop of the wingnut media complex. It takes about 4 seconds to destroy their arguments and be left mumbling about “libruls”. All it takes is that mysterious magic dust called “facts”.
again, read the last post. there are plenty of stats about crime and illegals. It’s not my fault that you’re either not intelligent enough to comprehend them, or just refuse to acknowledge them.
honestly, I don’t give a shit about trade agreements right now. Build a wall, deport illegals when they’re caught, punish employers first. Deal with trade agreements afterwords. You can bicker about this trade stuff all you want to, but that isn’t the first thing that needs to be addressed. Securing the border comes first. Nice smokescreen though. Either that or you just have no common sense.
the backlash will come. wait and see. You’re the one in the minority on this issue sandeater, not me.
You still haven’t answered my questions either. Are you for open borders? Do you support ANSWER or the Socialist Workers Party? Should full amnesty be given to those that have snuck into this country?
This is my last try with you knuckledragging gringo-haters here. Answer them.
“there are plenty of stats about crime and illegals. ”
Ya but please identify for me the specific stat that proves your claim: the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high.
“Build a wall, deport illegals when they re caught, punish employers first. ”
So what’s your plan to accomplish this?
“This is my last try with you knuckledragging gringo-haters here.”
So if we don’t answer, you’ll leave?
“Ya but please identify for me the specific stat that proves your claim: the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high.
I think he’s looking at the Kouri report, which says that among 50,000 criminal immigrants arrested, all of them have been arrested.
and another point - why on earth do you see ANY crime at all by someone who shouldn’t even be here as not being a problem.
to me, one is too many, let alone hundreds of thousands. But this doesn’t bother you, right?
You ought to go apologize to every victim of crime from someone that shouldn’t be here and tell them how we should legalize 12 million people whose past we’re clueless about. That would be a good start for all the gringo haters.
here’s some easy to understand directions for you about crime and illegals. maybe you can follow them, though I doubt it.
http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/jcpp_20050805.html
1) click link
2) scroll down to criminal history
3) read
give that a try, Einstein. And if you don’t see this info as troublesome, you are without a doubt a completely clueless buffoon.
and here’s your poll showing how most americans side with me, and not the gringo hating marxist quacks….
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155413,00.html
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44154
one from fox, one from zogby..
why don’t you show me a poll that says something other than this. And no, a poll of illegal immigrants doesn’t count.
checkmate. Yer in the minority on this one by a longshot. Be ready for the backlash, my gringo hating, lawbreaker sympathizers.
Really, frameone you are so clueleless and out of touch that it’s mind boggling. Americans want illegal immigration stopped. Plain and simple. To argue with this is just plain stupid.
“Really, frameone you are so clueleless and out of touch that it s mind boggling.”
Um, Moon, none of the statistics cited under “Criminal history” in the first link deal with crime rates of the overall illegal immigrant population. They all speak exclusively to statistics within the population of already incarcerated criminal aliens. It is not statistically vaild to extrapolate from recividism rates, the overall percentage of illegal aliens that commit crimes in this country. Citing public opinion polls won’t change that, Moon.
If I’m clueless for actually expecting you to back up your claims with real facts, well, I guess I should know better by now.
I am, however, completely familiar of the right wing tactic of falling back on vague, racially charged threats — “Yer in the minority on this one by a longshot. Be ready for the backlash, my gringo hating, lawbreaker sympathizers” — whenever the facts prove inconvenient.
Idiot.
I’ve posted facts, you’re just too stupid to comprehend them.
again, simple directions…
1)click link
2) read.
3) done.
of course, the x factor in all this is your inability to comprehend, so I might be wasting my time.
you gonna answer my questions or not, ya dern coward. Are you for full amnesty, open borders, do you support ANSWER or the Socialist Workers Party?
it’s yes or no. It’s not that complicated.
I’ll be back to check one last time to see if you’ve got the brass to actually be honest and expose your true motives for you support of this bogus “immigrants rights” crap, which is nothing more than support for lawbreakers and a slap in the face to those that actually took the time to do things right and respected OUR laws.
I’d like to know if you really don’t have a problem with crime by illegals, considering they’re not even supposed to be here.
Like I said, ONE is too many, let alone hundreds of thousands.
But you’re ok with that, right, cause “they’re all just here to work.”
Except for MS-13 I guess, eh. I guess if we legalized them we could cut down crime by illegals, cause well, they wouldn’t be illegal anymore (liberal logic)
Jesus, Moon, didn’t you say you were going to go away?
As to your questions, where to even start? I’m all for enforcing the borders aqnd arresting people who try to enter illegally but if you think building walls or filling our jails with poor people is going to solve the illegal immigration problem you are sorely mistaken. Then again if you consider amnesty, a temporary worker program that puts immigrants on a pathway to citizenship and trade policies that promote economic justice to be “open borders” well, then there’s nothing I can do about that. Am I afraid of being outed as supporting open borders? No. I believe wholeheartedly that borders and nations are rapidly becoming meaningless entities in the globalized 21st century. Tell me what country GM, GE, ADM, IBM, Exxon, or SONY, for example, are loyal too?
Do I support ANSWER? I’m sure I agree with them on a lot of issues and I’m sure there issues they support that I have a different take on.
Do I think that the Western United States will one day return to Mexico as a result of fair and equitable immigration and trade policies? You’ve got to be kidding. Only a paranoid dipshit would even think twice about it … oh, wait.
“… anti-white (either that or self-loathing liberal)”
And there you go again. No mater how hard you try to keep the racism underwraps it just keeps slipping out. Nice job Moon. As factcheck suggested, it’s time to go back to monitoring your medication.
You still haven’t posted any facts, moonbat. As frame and myself pointed out, you posted a link that said that immigrants who were arrested for criminal activity were arrested for criminal activity. That’s just like saying 100% of RW idiots are RW idiots. It is meaningless.
“Americans want illegal immigration stopped. Plain and simple. To argue with this is just plain stupid.”
Strawman alert: Noone said that they don’t want illegal immigration stopped.
What sane people (clue:not you) realize is that it is a complex issue, and that the undocumented workers should get only a little blame for this problem. There are lots of powerful people on both sides of the border who have more of a stake in keeping the cheap labor coming, and they are the key to solving the “problem”.
So take your racist Hannity/Limbaugh talking points somewhere else. Don’t come back until you have some documented facts, ones that actually prove the points you pose here.
How about you post proof of this.
“ the crime rate for illegals is ridiculously high”
Please be prepared to compare that crime rate to the crime rate for people in the same socioeconomic circumstances.
sure. facts like the poll I just posted that was taken yesterday by fox and the other by zogby. Still got that dome of yours stuffed in the sand I see.
And I’d still like you to answer the questions I asked you, or are you afraid of being outed as an open borders, anti-white (either that or self-loathing liberal), marxist, pro law-breaker nutjob?
Still waiting…….
and where’s my poll showing that I’m wrong? (remember? the fox and zogby ones above that evidently didn’t pierce your thick skull) wheres a poll saying that americans favor illegal immigration, amnesty and the like? You got one? Huh. Where’s it at, Che?
so you’re an ANSWER fan and an open borders quack. got it. That would explain you’re view on full amnesty. That and you don’t respect our laws. So can I sneak into Mexico or Canada and be made a citizen? Nope, cause they’ve got more common sense on this issue than the folks in your camp do.
and oh yeah, still waiting on a poll showing that I’m wrong about Americans’ view on illegal immigration. Where’s thos poll at?
(jeopardy music begins)
I’m waiting………
“…so you re an ANSWER fan and an open borders quack. got it.”
Ya and we identified you as a racist moron days ago. Now would you care to explain your inability to understand simple statistics?
“…and where s my poll showing that I m wrong?”
I take it from your faith in polls that you also agree that Bush is doing a poor job running the country and that we need to change course in Iraq.
http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
What I find so fascinating about this exchange, moon, is that you have not identified a single fact that supports your doomsday thinking about illegal immigration and yet you continue believe illegal immigrants pose this apocalyptic threat to America on the sole basis that a lot of other people think so too.
And what’s one thing that Perot, Nader, and Buchanan have that Gilchrist doesn’t?
Name Recognition…. I doubt if many in the GOP even recognize him.
Compound that problem with the fact that the Constitution party has zero name recognition and you get what???
A non-factor in presidential politics. Maybe I’m wrong… But I just don’t see the Constitution Party picking up a lot of votes in ‘08.
I agree.
Bush sucks. He’s a noodle-spined, fiscally irresponsible, bought and paid for, vote pandering bonehead. I thought we covered that earlier.
here’s some stats on illegals and crime, nationwide, like you asked.
http://www.campaignsitebuilder.com/templates/displayfiles/tmpl24.asp?SiteID=507&PageID=6389&Trial=false
You’re kidding right? That’s your “proof”? Some unsourced pronouncements from a kook who formed a PAC that seems like one man’s slush fund? I get it, you’re one of those loons who think that Bush is “too liberal”, right? You’re a joke.
wendy, Perot wasn’t known by anyone before his campaign. And with my campaign donation dollars, Gilchrist is going to have all he needs to get his message of hate and racism to all of you!
“thanks for the exchange. good day to everyone, I ve proven my point.”
Oh classic. What a whiny fuck you turned out to be, moon.