NBC Plays Pravda

Published February 27, 2006 in Liberal Media.

Well, I’m glad someone had the stomach to watch this week’s edition of Meet the Press, because it was frankly beyond ludicrous for a major public affairs program like MTP to blatantly exclude any sort of Democrat from their show (by God, even Joe Lieberman would have been an improvement over the Elephantfest). Even the old Soviet Union would have pretended a little better than that. Who knew GE would make Stalin seem like such a champion of media balance.

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1 Dana
Feb 27th, 2006 at 8:02 am

So, Mr Willis, what criterion are you using? Are you saying that if a show has both Democrats and Republicans on, it is Fair and Balanced?

Naturally, I capitalized that, because that’s just what the Fox News Channel does, having guests from both sides, and claiming that makes it Fair and Balanced; they report, and you decide.

As Dugger pointed out, Meet the Press had one proponent and one opponent of the ports contract deal, which was supposed to be the major issue.
2 Dugger
Feb 27th, 2006 at 8:02 am

Won’t fly OW. Russert, himself an ex partisan Democrat, had a Republican critic of the ports deal and a R supporter. No doubt Russert and his big media bosses thought it would do more damage to Bush to have the criticism coming from the Republican side: that way it looks like Bush is wrong since ‘obviously’ partisan politics is not an issue (2 Rs).

The Dugger Show, Today we discuss the WOT with Democrats Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman (Media Critic: But Dugger, 2 Ds? You are biased against Rs. Dugger: Yes, but its time we big media barons brought that arrogant but dumb frat boy down. Peace, bro !)

Dugger
3 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 9:02 am

You’ve been banging us over the head with “Oo -oo - oo, Scary UAE” Port deal for almost 2 weeks, and now Irag is the headline story.

Besides, I’ve seen enough “all - lefty” taling head shows; it’s time for a break.
4 Dugger
Feb 27th, 2006 at 10:02 am

Semant,

“It is quite apparent that Russert conspires to deflate the republicans”

Change ‘republicans’ to ‘conservatives’ or even “Bush supporters” and your sarcasm becomes gospel.

And I yearn with rapidly beating heart for the day we decide to give one half of NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS to the left and one half to the right. We both think we gain from that one.

Dugger, You think Fox is bad, get a load of DBS.
5 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 10:02 am

One appearance by Republicans on TV threatens the existence of the Republic — I love it!
6 Semanticleo
Feb 27th, 2006 at 10:02 am

Oh yes, yes. Indeedy.

It is quite apparent that Russert conspires to deflate the republicans
of this world by allowing them free reign to publicly ’stew in their own
proverbial juices’.

Clearly he is setting them up for failure by allowing only their voices
to be heard rattling around the echo chamber.

It’s a good strategy for his obvious liberal bias.

Good God Almighty!
7 Semanticleo
Feb 27th, 2006 at 11:02 am

In addition;

And I yearn with rapidly beating heart for the day we decide to give one half of NBC, CBS, ABC, and PBS to the left and one half to the right. We both think we gain from that one.

you wish for an impossible scenario.

Context, or historical perspective is almost always necessary in the
background of any news story. That requires a certain amount of
suspect bias in the reporter (always the claim from the injured party)

Pure objectivity is just “he said this” “she responded by saying this”
Reporting means that if ’she’ said something different at an earlier
time, it needs to be reported along with the fresh quote.
8 frameone
Feb 27th, 2006 at 11:02 am

“… but I think more on the left believe an effective technique for arguing against left wing bias is to argue right wing bias.”

Um, ya. The right has believed for nigh on four decades that the best defense against the facts it to argue a left wing bias.
9 Semanticleo
Feb 27th, 2006 at 11:02 am

Dugger;

If you know the concept of Yin Yang and you’ve got your filter
turned off, you might knotice the transformation of the media
into a force for the status quo.

Since the ’70s the media has been ever more preoccupied with
ratings and circulation until it has reached the current critical
mass. Some make a living with radicalism as their proud
mission statement, some (or I should say most) dance on that
fine line of public opinion because they want ALL the viewers.

Haven’t you noticed how the networks and newsapapers knee-jerk
back home when critical correspondence amasses?

Please, don’t hang on to that bewhiskered notion that the media
is biased toward liberalism. It is old, trite and fundamentally
inaccurate, unless semantics comes into play. That is where
you and I frequently diverge. Our idea of liberal or conservative
have differing degrees of the ratio of coffee grounds to water
to reach our preferences. But, please don’t tell me you haven’t
noticed a shift to the right. Even Frank notices it, but says the
Yin has a long way before it balances the Yang.
10 Dugger
Feb 27th, 2006 at 11:02 am

Semant,

Yes. Its undoubtedly impossible and probably not desirable in the best of worlds. We are not and will never be in the best of worlds however. I believe that the media is clearly biased to the left. I am willing to accept and believe that some honestly believe it is biased to the right, but I think more on the left believe an effective technique for arguing against left wing bias is to argue right wing bias. Hence, when two Republicans are featured on MTP, its right wing bias - despite the fact that the premise of the show was wiht a Democratic questioner was to question Bush’s foreign policy re the ports deal and that one of the Repubs featured was a prominent critic of same. That is why I say, let me do it half and you do half. We’ll never agree otherwise.

on the Dugger show today, the question is : Was John Kerry lying about his war record. Zell Miller and Ed Koch will discuss. This is left wing bias, right (two Democrats discussing a Democrat)!!!!(?)
11 frameone
Feb 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pm

“Now that that situation is changing. The leftist talking point is that the press leans to the right.”

Guys, this “leftist talking point” has not changed at all. Noam Chomsky has been attacking the conservative corporate-dominated interests of the mainstream media for as long as conservatives have been arguing the opposite. Unfortunately for the right, Chomsky has the facts on his side while the Right has an amorphous glob of anecdotes, intuition and half truths to make its case. Watch the doc Manufacturing Consent or read Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent : The Political Economy of the Mass Media (published in 1988).
12 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 12:02 pm

frameone: I know you are not simple - minded. Neither are conservatives. The conservatives have been saying for nigh on four decades that the MSM leans to the left.

It was certainly true of ABCCBSNBC, NY and LA Times. Wash Post.

The statement of that truism was never used by anyone as an argument against the facts. Conservatives have never said that truth is not available. What they, or at least I, have always said, is that the average person gets their news from TV. TV News was slanted to the left. Thus, the average citizen had a hard time discerning the truth and forming opinions.

That’s what it has alway been about.

Now that that situation is changing. the leftist talking point is that the press leans to the right, when the old - line MSM is still in business, as are the “big three” national newspapers, and, of course, CNN. I think things are approaching just right.
13 Oliver Willis
Feb 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

Besides, I ve seen enough all - lefty taling head shows
When? Never happens.
14 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

http://media.eriposte.com/persists.htm

http://media.eriposte.com/truecolors/truecolors_1.htm

One cannot claim to be informed on this subject without reading these.
15 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

And frame is exactly right. And now studies have been done to prove it. These studies have objective standards and definitions of bias, unlike anything from MRC.
16 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

“One appearance by Republicans on TV threatens the existence of the Republic I love it!”

Even assuming you were being exaggeratory, that’s just a silly statement. You must have read how conservatives dominate sunday talk, so what was your motivation for writing something so patently misleading and intellectually dishonest?
17 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 1:02 pm

And don’t just fall back into the pathetic, unsupportable allegation that “It’s in the story selection!” Beyond a gut feeling that you’re being talked down to, what proof is there? Every study ever done shows the opposite.
18 JWG
Feb 27th, 2006 at 2:02 pm

Every study ever done shows the opposite.

Absolute BS.
19 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 2:02 pm

Alright, besides MRC, every study ever done shows the opposite.
20 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

The only thing Chomsky is right about is that is that corporations own TV stations. So maybe that means NBC won’t do a story that makes GE look bad.
That doesn’t make them right wing.
21 Dugger
Feb 27th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

mjb,

What a crock. Cease your cyber bum’s rush. Studies aren’t going to prove or disprove bias. Who decides what’s biased?
I done a major media studies that quanitifie smainstream media bias in favor of the Dems by about a 2 to 1 margin. Case closed, then?? There are studies that suggest bias - like the political persuasions of the industry - or the guest line-up, but ultimately its the product selected, the way its presented, and the nature of the presentation. Then the judgment of the beholder.

Winess, OW blithley asserting that a talk show devoted to discussing a PROBLEM area for Bush with a Bush critic and a Bush supporter, moderated by amember of the opposiye party, is in fact, TADA!, Republican bias.

Dugger
22 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

Frank, then you’d have to admit that if a story contrary to business interests gets through it is not evidence of liberal bias. But these are the kinds of stories routinely cited as evidence of liberal bias.
23 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 3:02 pm

Dugger, there have been many who’ve attempted to set objective standards. Admittedly, it may be difficult, but that does not invalidate the whole enterprise of trying to quantify bias. What does invalidate it is reliance on gut feeling and “I knows it whens I sees it”. That is not proof of anything, and it makes me wonder why people feel so strongly about it if they can cite nothing convincing beyond a feeling. Makes me think there’s something else there. No, that couldn’t be it.
24 frameone
Feb 27th, 2006 at 5:02 pm

“So maybe that means NBC won t do a story that makes GE look bad.
That doesn t make them right wing.”

Frank, it isn’t just about censoring stories that make GE look bad. It’s also about pushing stories that promote GE and its corporate interests. GE makes everything from blenders to movies (NBC/Universal) to military equiptment. You’d be hard pressed to find a news story that DOESN’T impact GEs corporate interest. It’s kind of weird, don’t you think, that a company with a lot of military contracts also owns a television network that produces a dramatic series about the Pentagon:

“It’s a look inside the world’s most powerful building - The Pentagon. Don’t miss “E-Ring,” 9/8c on NBC.
Executive producer Jerry Bruckheimer (”CSI” franchise), Oscar-nominated director/producer Taylor Hackford (”Ray”) and stars Benjamin Bratt (”Traffic,” “Law & Order”) and Dennis Hopper (”Easy Rider,” “Speed”) join forces in this pulsating drama set inside the nation’s ultimate fortress: the Pentagon.”

And hey, on GEs corporate site you can also find this bit of exciting news:

“GE Rolls-Royce Fighter Engine Team Awarded Engine Development Contract

The GE Rolls-Royce Fighter Engine Team recently announced it has been awarded a contract valued at $2.4 billion to develop its F136 engine for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program.”

Now GE also owns Universal which released Munich which I know got a lot of right wing idiots up in a huff about liberal Hollywood (it is, apparently, pro-terrorist to explore the psychological toll of revenge killing) but let’s face it, which media product do you think might have a greater impact on GEs overall relationship with the Pentagon?
25 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

You lefties are all over the map on this issue: TV shows. corporate ownership.
But how about imagery, editorial selection (that’s right, mjb), priority of stories (see “Cheneyt shot a man in Texas”).

Commentary, people interviewed, “experts,” Congresshumans. It all goes into the mix.
26 mjb
Feb 27th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

Without some objective standard to judge by, you’ll never know if your belief in “liberal bias” is ever true, so why be so sure? It is easy to show that when falsehoods are pawned of by the media, they are almost always done so to the benefit (intentionally [fox] or not) of Republican politicians and corporate interests. No serious study says otherwise.
27 Dugger
Feb 27th, 2006 at 6:02 pm

mjb,

I believe left wing bias is there (domainat, in fact) with my heart and soul, but I acknowledge I can’t prove it - especially to one who believes differently from myself. But I have never seen a study or a refutation that convinces me otherwise. I would think the opposite is true for you and the left.

To that end, having Fox (alone, IMO) presenting a non-biased broadcast (again, IMO) is enough to allow me to relax re ABC, NBC, CBS etc.

Dugger - Am I wrong in my construct of OW’s example?
28 frameone
Feb 27th, 2006 at 7:02 pm

“You lefties are all over the map on this issue: TV shows. corporate ownership.”

Frank, it’s an example to show you the extent to which what appear like separate and distinct media texts are, in fact, all stem from the same corporate parent with the same corporate interests at heart. It isn’t hard to find examples of Warner Bros. movies ending up on the cover of Time Magazine or NBC national or local news programming leading into medical stories with references to ER — all of it without any indication that the texts in question are coming from the same corporation. If you want to point to a handful of news stories that you believe in your heart of hearts, per Dugger, are “left leaning,” I can point to a factual, extensive network of corporate relations that, while appearing multiple on the surface, is actually a single system geared to one purpose: producing profits for the corporate parent. From GE to Time Warner to Viacom to Fox.

And BTW, Dugger, you are too funny. You may not know it but you and Stephen Colbert have a lot in common, only he’s joking.

Here’s Dugger: “I believe left wing bias is there (domainat, in fact) with my heart and soul, but I acknowledge I can t prove it … But I have never seen a study or a refutation that convinces me otherwise.”

Here’s Colbert:
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_colbert_report/index.jhtml

“Anybody who knows me knows that I am no fan of dictionaries or reference books. They’re elitist for constantly telling us what is or isn’t true, what did or didn’t happen…

I don’t trust books. They’re all fact and no heart. And that’s exactly what’s pulling our country apart today. Because face it, folks, we are a divided nation… We are divided by those who think with their head, and those who know with their heart.

Consider Harriett Miers. If you think about Harriett Miers, of course her nomination’s absurd! But the President didn’t say he thought about this selection, he said this:

President Bush: “I know her heart.”

Notice that he didn’t say anything about her brain? He didn’t have to. He feels the truth about Harriett Miers. And what about Iraq? If you think about it, maybe there are a few missing pieces to the rationale for war. But doesn’t taking Saddam out feel like the right thing…right here in the gut? Because that’s where the truth comes from, ladies and gentlemen…the gut.

Did you know that you have more nerve endings in your stomach than in your head? Look it up. Now, somebody’s gonna say `I did look that up and its wrong’. Well, Mister, that’s because you looked it up in a book. Next time, try looking it up in your gut. I did. And my gut tells me that’s how our nervous system works.

Now I know some of you may not trust your gut…yet. But with my help you will. The “truthiness” is, anyone can read the news to you. I promise to feel the news…at you.”
29 Oliver Willis
Feb 27th, 2006 at 7:02 pm

Frank, the idea that covering the incident of the vice president shooting a guy is “liberal” is one of the most absurd things I’ve seen. By that measure, when the press corps was all over Clinton for the scandal of the day, I’d be justified in calling them right wing. While I believe the right-wing was the driving force behind the made up scandals, the media was just doing what the media does: being stupid.
30 Frank_D
Feb 27th, 2006 at 10:02 pm

Oh, yeah, liberals “know,” but conservatives (only) “feel”. Where have I heard that before? That’s right! All over this blog…
31 frameone
Feb 27th, 2006 at 11:02 pm

“Where have I heard that before?”

Um, could it have been Dugger’s post?
32 JWG
Feb 28th, 2006 at 6:02 am

Alright, besides MRC, every study ever done shows the opposite.

Hmmm. These researchers seem to have a whole section devoted to “Some Previous Studies of Media Bias” that demonstrate various forms of liberal bias. Maybe they were drunk when they wrote this section?

Critique the results of this particular study all you want. The point is that they cite many previous studies that also find liberal bias. Maybe all of those are flawed as well. But to say that EVERY STUDY shows a conservative bias is beyond ridiculous.
33 Dugger
Feb 28th, 2006 at 8:02 am

Good points JWG. Thre are oceans of programming presented these days. By cherry picking a select small number of anecdotes you could probably ‘prove’ about any point you wanted. The ways of bisa are very numerous and tricky: guests selected to debate an issue (Mother Theresa (RIP) vs David Duke), pictures seelcted, topic to be debated, focus on party mavericks (having Zell Miller on zinging Dems but calim its all fair since he’s Dem). Thre
’silltion of ‘em.

I think CSPAN does it right and Fox, nobody else - except in small snippets.

Dugger
34 Semanticleo
Feb 28th, 2006 at 9:02 pm

Dugger;You forgot WaTimes
35 Dugger
Mar 1st, 2006 at 10:03 am

Semant, When I did my study which ‘graded’ about 60 to 15 in favor of liberal bias, the WaTimes and talk radio graded right. As an example, the SF Chronicle and the then Rainsian NY Times graded left (it would be just ‘liberal’ now), WaPo just liberal and WSJ conervative.

Dugger
36 wmgdcnj cfgirjxne
Sep 21st, 2007 at 12:00 pm

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Oliver Willis

NBC Plays Pravda

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