In all likelihood Tookie Williams will be executed tonight. The thing is, he expressed no remorse - he maintains that he’s innocent - and the jury didn’t say “death penalty unless you reform yourself”. The people he’s convicted of killing remain dead, and a jury of his peers has made their sentence. There’s no exculpatory evidence that even remotely says he didn’t do the crime.
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Oliver, I’m shocked and impressed by your post. Not that I’m thirsting for the man’s blood; we have a system in place that sometimes gets it wrong but usually gets it right.
I didn’t say it, a jury did, a jury decision reviewed at numerous levels of power and a verdict upheld.
He is apparently appealing to the U.S. Supreme Court seeking one last chance to avoid execution. Too bad he never afforded his victims one last chance.
“There s no exculpatory evidence that even remotely says he didn t do the crime.”
…so we should kill him. You forgot that last part.
You know, the huge jump in logic.
State sponsored executions are barbaric. Plain and simple.
Miss Barber, I am sure you believe that you are a god-fearing Christian but you really are nothing more than a colored apologist for the discriminatory implementation of the death penalty.
The death penalty as practiced in California and the country at large depends on inferior advocacy on behalf of those accused in Capital cases. The negligence allowed in defending the lives of these defendants allows prosecutors to rig jury pools to remove persons of color and those opposed to the death penalty in order to render the process biased in favor of the prosecution. Utilizing the death penalty in principle has merit. Using it to discriminate against those accused of murdering white people is the practical effect of the rules governing execution.
Reality is a difficult thing to grapple with in the right-wing worldview of most black conservatives. I suggest you take the scales off your eyes before you consign someone you love to the whim of a racist criminal justice system.
More bad logic by OW.
Look, Tookie Williams or any other person charged with a crime isn’t required to prove their innocence. Nor is remorse a precondition for a lighter sentence.
The fact is juries make mistakes all the time. And let’s face it–death row isn’t filled with well-heeled convicts–it’s usually populated by those who were unable to procure much beyond a barely adequate defense.
“a right wing backlash recall election with unmistakably racial overtones”
Sure, California is a hotbed of conservatism.
Oliver, you are to be commended for having the cajones to maintain your position despite the vitriol thrown your way for not participating in the group-think expected.
Does anyone know if it is on Pay-per-view ?
Hey, OW–feel better that Lashawn Barber agrees with you? That should be a big signal as to how wrong you are.
I’m always amused by pseudoChristians like Barber who are gleeful over the prospect of killing people.
The execution of Stanley “Tookie” Williams serves no real purpose other than the politically priceless opportunity of Gov. Schwarzenegger to look tough by executing a physically intimidating and “scary” looking black man associated with a gang.
The underlying issue of claimed innocence and redemption in the face of long obstacles is entirely beyond the point. Down in the polls, Arnold who became Governor solely because of his Hollywood image in a right wing backlash recall election with unmistakably racial overtones seeks to pull himself up from the doldrums. Killing a black Gang leader is surely a way to connect with the racist and delusional white constituency that put him in office. Even though they now know that Arnold’s smoke and mirrors rhetoric thinly veils his right wing corporate agenda, they will be comforted to know that he will off a dangerous Negro so that they can sleep well at night.
Parroting the rhetoric of Prosecuting Attorneys and other apologists for the Prison Industrial Complex is a sad development for you Oliver. Killing this particular black man makes nobody safer. Especially one who has made extraordinary strides to renounce violence.
The death penalty isn’t about who the criminals are. It is about who we are as a country.
I wonder if Tookie was ever influenced by Schwarzenegger’s overly violent movies?
At least three of the people Tookie murdered were not white.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren’t we discussing the man that was tried, convincted, and had multiple appeals upheld the same man that killed 4 innocents, and during this stellar time in his life, worked with another credit to humanity to found one of the most brutal gangs in our nation?
State sponsored executions are barbaric. Plain and simple.
Well, we can take comfort in knowing that we’re right up there, in terms of number of executions performed, with the likes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, and Vietnam.
It’s a shame that the self-proclaimed, “land of the free”, would resort to this blood-thirsty, cruel, and barbaric means of extracting revenge against one of their citizens.
Bush has murdered a whole bunch of people and he’s still out walking around.
JD,
California is a racist police state. Does the rampart scandal ring a bell?
How about the $70 million paid out by the City of Los Angeles for Police Criminal Misconduct?
How about the 100 criminal convictions thrown out of court based on false testimony by LAPD officers implicated in drug trafficing?
How about the young man they shot and permanently paralyzed and framed for attempted murder of his would be accusers? The city awarded the boy $22 million in damages.
People like you think we should mow down every would be gang member as quickly as possible until your son or daughter is caught up in the carnage.
The fact that you are in denial of the systemic racism that infects the Criminal Justice system is a prime example of your agreement with fundamental unfairness.
Now try this: “I m not gleeful over the forced-blindness penalty, but I think it s the appropriate penalty when someone is found to have taken someone else s life in an evil manner.”
Who’s up for some forced-blindness?
I’m not gleeful over the death penalty, but I think it’s the appropriate penalty when someone is found to have taken someone else’s life in an evil manner. Yes, LaShawn Barber happens to be in favor of the death penalty amongst all her other idiotic opinions, what can I say - a stopped clock is right twice a day.
“when was the last time someone made a movie attempting to get a rich white guy off the hook?”
http://www.fahrenhype911.com/
HTH
Crap…didn’t close the tag correctly.
This is a distortion. According to Amnesty International about 3800 people were known to be executed last year (2004). China made up 90% of those executions. Iran took 4% with Vietnam and America each taking an additional 1.5%. The other 3% came from 21 other countries (and 64 countries sentenced people to death during 2004).
So trying to claim that 1.5% of the world’s known executions is “right up there” with China is an incredible error. Additionally, Iran has almost 3x as many executions as the US.
America can certainly be considered one of the top users of the death penalty (around 60 per year during the last few years), but we’re not “right up there” with China or Iran.
Oliver, wow you have had a few rational opinions lately. But in any case, I don’t see how anyone can disagree with this decision. This guy not only killed four innocent people (and apparently laughed while one was dying in his own pool of blood), but he denies it. No one should be happy that he is going to fry, but justice will be done.
Trevorwells and the likes of him crack me up. Don’t you recognize the inherent inconsistency of your very own arguments?
“California is a racist police state. Does the rampart scandal ring a bell?”
If ca was a racist police state, there would have been no Rampart scandal…everyone would have loved it, racist bigots that they are. Just like the Abu Graib scandal….no scandal if we really were supporters of torture (never mind that worse things go on in college fraternities every night).
The whole point is that these things were found out, and people punished for them, cause they were ILLEGAL
As far as “inferior advocacy” goes…when was the last time someone made a movie attempting to get a rich white guy off the hook? Or put a rich white guy up for a Nobel Prize? Or had the Hollywood intelligenstia out lobbying for a rich white guy? Can’t remember? Thats cause it never happened.
The unfortunate truth is, the people on death row are usually bad people. Even the ones that were wrongly convicted, and there have been some, were usually multiple felons, which partially explains why people were convinced they did it in the first place. People like that also don’t tend to have any money…
trevor - exactly how does any of that relate to Governor Arnold and the recall election, which was the original context in which you brought up the unquestioned racial overtones ?
You can always count on B.J. Honeycutt:
“The governor’s 96-hour wait to give an answer was a cowardly act and was tortuous,” said former “M A S H” star Mike Farrell, a death penalty opponent. “I would suggest that had he the courage of his convictions he could have gone over to San Quentin and met with Stanley Williams himself and made a determination rather than letting his staff legal adviser write this garbage.”
Makes you wonder what B.J. considers to be more cowardly and tortuous, makeing a convicted murderer wait 96 hours to hear if he will be granted clemency, or gunning down four people in cold blood, including an elderly couple and their daughter. I can see the liberal dilemna with that one.
The state would have you believe that they are serving the causes of justice by killing Stanley Williams so why did prosecutors give a supposed co-conspirator of Stanley Williams immunity for the same conspiracy to commit murder?
From the clemency petition:
“Alfred Coward, an alleged accomplice, received complete immunity for his claimed role in capital murder. Coward had a lengthy criminal history for armed robbery, including a robbery right in front of the Brookhaven motel. The trial prosecutor admitted in a memorandum to his superiors that corroboration for Coward s testimony was thin. Subsequent to Stanley Williams trial, Coward was convicted of federal conspiracy and given only probation. He was thereafter arrested for drug dealing, burglary, and receiving stolen property, yet each time the District Attorney declined to file charges. In 1990, he pled guilty to burglary and despite the probation officer s pleas that he be sent to prison, the District Attorney agreed to probation. Presently, Coward is in a Canadian prison for killing a man during a robbery.”
Yes, that’s right the state’s immunity deal allowed him to walk free and kill somebody.
So, of course we must kill Stanley for the crimes of somebody else right? Wrong!!!!
The Trial.
They struck all of the black jurors in the case, or so they thought.
From the clemency petition:
“The District Attorney does not contest that the prosecutor was twice sanctioned by the California Supreme Court for racial bias. Nor that Stanley Williams was compared to a Bengal tiger. Rather, the District Attorney argues that the prosecutor left one African-American on Stanley Williams jury and that this cleanses any taint. The District Attorney is wrong on all counts.
The juror, William McLurkin, was born in the Philippines, as was his mother. The trial record demonstrates that none of the lawyers — and particularly the prosecutor — thought Mr. McLurkin was black. During jury selection, three jurors were asked whether the fact that they were black would influence them. The prosecutor struck each of these jurors. Neither Mr. McLurkin nor any of the other 79 potential jurors were asked these questions. The only inference is that none of the lawyers thought Mr. McLurkin was black. Mr. McLurkin looked Filipino. The District Attorney has supplied Mr. McLurkin s death certificate, which does not have a picture, as an exhibit. What the District Attorney fails to supply is Mr. McLurkin s driver s license, which does have his photograph.”
This is the fair trial that the Terminator is basing a denial of clemency. Prosecutors were afraid what a few black jurors would do with the case so they struck all they could percieve as black. That’s justice right? Wrong!
Finally, the Prosecutor’s experts failed to run a standard series of test son the ballistics evidence in the case.
From the petition:
“The prosecution s gun examiner made no effort to compare
ejector and extractor marks on the crime scene shell with the test shells, did not identify the markings on the shells by class, sub-class and individual characteristics, did not take photomicrographs of the shells as has been best practice since the 1920 s, and did not have a second examiner verify his findings.”
This is it people. The basis of this conviction rests on jail house testimony from a career criminal the prosecution gave immunity to which allowed him to Implicate Stanley Williams, escape four murder charges and allowed him the freedom to murder someone in Canada. A crime for which he is imprisioned and will not be executed for.
It bothers me profoundly that some people would endorse a death sentence without knowing any facts.
“Sure, California is a hotbed of conservatism.”
Um, are you kidding me, JD? Prop 13? The John Birch Society? Governor Ronald Reagan? I grew up in Orange County. Trust me, California is a hotbed of converatism.
How many Californians self identify themselves as Republicans as compared to Democrats in the state of California ?
O Dub,
Just a quick question … do you think its even slightly possible that a jury in 1985 Los Angeles made up of 10 whites, one Latino and one Filipino could make a mistake when judging a black gang member? Do you think the first jury (the one in Simi Valley) in the Rodney King beating case got it right?
To the rest of you who support this execution, please enlighten me as to the exact piece of infallible evidence that makes you so certain in Tookie Williams’ guilt that justifies the use of the absolute penalty of death.
Um … JD,
What were those numbers in the mid-eighties?
Are you aware that L.A. County is quite large and that prosecutors would move cases to various locales throughout the County so as to insure, not a diverse jury pool, but one most likely to convict (meaning in a case like this one that would profer the least blacks possible)?
Frame
“Trust me, California is a hotbed of converatism.”
Is it possible you are conflating the fact that Cal is not sufficiently left wing for your tastes with it being a hot bed of conservatism? I mean the Pres election results for some time indicate Cal is very liberal. I will grant you that liberal states do have a ’strange’ tendency to pick liberal Republican governors (Pataki, Romney, Arnie). But their overall congressional make-up and Pres voting patterns would seem to clearly indicate ‘liberal’.
And also, does it occur to you that if Cal isn’t liberal, then there are no liberal states? I mean, as a conservative, I in no way consider Cal conservative.
Dugger
trevor
they gave him immunity cause he wasn’t the one who pulled the trigger and shot four innocent people.
My favorite part of this whole thing is listening to people, in the same breath, say tookie is innocent AND he is a totally reformed man.
Well, which is it?
I like how Jadegold turns everything into a political matter. The fact is the most liberal court in the United States turned “Tookie” away. The California SC also turned “Tookie” away .. what is wrong with you, this man did the crime and now he’s paying for it. If our justice system doesn’t live by its word that sends a message out to criminals … hey kill someone and you’ll just get a free ride in a state prison, no chance of death penalty for you!
trevorwells, if you are going to quote the clemency petition as verbatim, you may want to quote the government’s side as well, and maybe the victims’ too — just to be fair, of course.
“Witnesses at the trial said he boasted about the killings, stating “You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him.” Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes, according to the transcript that the governor referenced in his denial of clemency.”
“Lora Owens, Owens’ stepmother, watched Williams die. In the days before the execution, she was one of the outspoken advocates who believed the execution should go forward. She said her stepson was shot twice in the back, even though he begged Williams for his life.”
“My favorite part of this whole thing is listening to people, in the same breath, say tookie is innocent AND he is a totally reformed man.’
Excellent point, Doc.
Dugger
I recognize that on some level (or in some opinions) I might be a better or more civilized person if I opposed the death penalty but I don’t. Much more on this here.
I have no problem whatsoever with the ultimate punishment for the ultimate crimes. And I mean the worst of the worst, where guilt is assured, release or rehabilitation is impossible, and mercy is unwarranted. Tookie sweeps the categories as far as I am concerned.
As a liberal, I can understand the stance of those who oppose the death penalty, yet it is frustrating to no end to see a rally of support for a thug like Tookie. Why is this guy the poster-boy for clemency/anti-DP efforts? I’m sure there are dozens of death row inmates who actually deserve support and second looks at their cases. Cory Maye is the perfect example.
All this nonsense about California being conservative is just that, nonsense. Just look at the make-up of the legislature. It’s over 60% democrat.
http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/directory/members.html
I am a 3rd generation Californian born and raised in Orange County. While it is true that Orange County has historically been heavily dominated by Republicans, that is no longer the case. The influx of hispanics in OC has changed the political dynamics greatly. Just look at the recent OC congressional seat won by John Campbell. He won that seat with just 44% to the democrats 28%. Cox won that seat with 65% just 2 years ago.
And how trevorwills could call the recall election racist is beyond me. Davis and the democrat controlled legislature were bankrupting the state. The drivers licences for ILLEGAL aliens was just the icing on the cake.
I’m against capital punishment, so my thoughts are “tainted” by that. Be that as it may, it looks a lot like some of the evidence was less than stellar (when it wasn’t being mishandled, like the shell casings), the jury pool was rigged (as well as venue-shopped), and Williams’ role in creating the gang worked against him. The point is that it took this long to execute him. The crimes were committed in what, 1974? With all the appeals available to condemned prisoners, with the number of innocents executed, with the fallibility of the system, why kill them? It costs less to incarcerate them than to execute them, and if, after years, innocence is proved, you have a live person to release, not a dead one to mourn.
It’s just stupid to keep killing people. It’s like this:
Kill them quickly, with few appeal possibilities, and you run the risk of killing an innocent. The deterrent effect is strongest, though not as strong as some folks seem to think.
Allow years for appeals, and you lose the deterrent effect. The appeals are costly (lawyers cost more than jailers).
Lock them up for life (without parole) and you can release them if they are proved innocent.
Till we find a way to be sure, why kill? It lowers society to the level of its worst members, and hardens hearts. It also allows free reign for vengeance, and probably raises the level of sloppiness in police work.
Think of it as a game with no instant replay. When you can’t undo society’s action, you harm society.
Ed
The highlighted part sounds like B.S. to me. Just try it yourself.
Macswain, apparently distraught at the execution of a liberal hero and clinging to false hope of innocence, ignores the following passages from the Governor’s decision:
Let’s start with the crime and the victims Macswain and B.J. Honeycutt wish to ignore:
“During the early morning hours of February 28, 1979, Williams and three others went on a robbery spree. Around 4 a.m., they entered a 7-Eleven store where Albert Owens was working by himself. Here, Williams, armed with his pumpaction shotgun, ordered Owens to a backroom and shot him twice in the back while he lay face down on the floor. Williams and his accomplices made off with about $120 from the store s cash register. After leaving the 7-Eleven store, Williams told the others that he killed Albert Owens because he did not want any witnesses. Later that morning, Williams recounted shooting Albert Owens, saying You should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him. Williams then made a growling noise and laughed for five to six minutes.
On March 11, 1979, less than two weeks later, Williams, again armed with his shotgun, robbed a family-operated motel and shot and killed three members of the family: (1) the father, Yen-I Yang, who was shot once in the torso and once in the arm while he was laying on a sofa; (2) the mother, Tsai-Shai Lin, who was shot once in the abdomen and once in the back; and (3) the daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, who was shot once in her face. For these murders, Williams made away with approximately $100 in cash. Williams also told others about the details of these murders and referred to the victims as Buddha-heads. ”
And now for the “mistaken” jury:
“Williams case has been thoroughly reviewed in the 24 years since his convictions and death sentence. In addition to his direct appeal to the California Supreme Court, Williams has filed five state habeas corpus petitions, each of which has been rejected. The federal courts have also reviewed his convictions and death sentence. Williams filed a federal habeas corpus petition, and the U.S. District Court denied it. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals confirmed this decision. Williams was also given a number of post-trial evidentiary hearings, and he and his lawyers had the opportunity at these hearings to present evidence that was not heard at trial. The jury s decision has withstood these challenges.
In all, Williams case has been the subject of at least eight substantive judicial opinions. Prior to the filing of the clemency petition, the state court habeas process was completed on June 21, 1995 when the California Supreme Court denied Williams fourth state habeas corpus petition.3 The federal court habeas process was completed on October 11, 2005 when the United States Supreme Court denied Williams writ of certiorari.
The claim that Williams received an unfair trial was the subject of this extensive litigation in the state and federal courts. The courts considered the sufficiency of his counsel, the strategic nature of counsel s decisions during the penalty phase of Williams trial, the adequacy and reliability of testimony from informants, whether Williams was prejudiced by security measures employed during his trial, whether he was competent to stand trial, whether the prosecutor impermissibly challenged potential jurors on the basis of race, and whether his jury was improperly influenced by Williams threats made against them. There is no need to rehash or second guess the myriad findings of the courts over 24 years of litigation.
The possible irregularities in Williams trial have been thoroughly and carefully reviewed by the courts, and there is no reason to disturb the judicial decisions that uphold the jury s findings that he is guilty of these four murders and should pay with his life.”
But wait, you want evidence?
“Cumulatively, the evidence demonstrating Williams is guilty of these murders is strong and compelling. It includes: (1) eyewitness testimony of Alfred Coward, who was one of Williams accomplices in the 7-Eleven shooting; (2) ballistics evidence proving that the shotgun casing found at the scene of the motel murders was fired from Williams shotgun; (3) testimony from Samuel Coleman that Williams confessed that he had robbed and killed some people on Vermont Street (where the motel was located); (4) testimony from James and Esther Garrett that Williams admitted to them that he committed both sets of murders; and (5) testimony from jailhouse informant George Oglesby that Williams confessed to the motel murders and conspired with Oglesby to escape from county jail. The trial evidence is bolstered by information from Tony Sims, who has admitted to being an accomplice in the 7-Eleven murder. Sims did not testify against Williams at trial, but he was later convicted of murder for his role in Albert Owens death. During his trial and subsequent parole hearings, Sims has repeatedly stated under
oath that Williams was the shooter.
Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second guess the jury s finding of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams convictions and death sentence. He murdered Albert Owens and Yen-I Yang, Yee-Chen Lin and Tsai-Shai Lin in cold blood in two separate incidents that were just weeks apart.
But Williams claims that he is particularly deserving of clemency because he has reformed and been redeemed for his violent past. Williams claim of redemption triggers an inquiry into his atonement for all his transgressions. Williams protests that he has no reason to apologize for these murders because he did not commit them. But he is guilty and a close look at Williams post-arrest and postconviction conduct tells a story that is different from redemption. After Williams was arrested for these crimes, and while he was awaiting trial, he conspired to escape from custody by blowing up a jail transportation bus and killing the deputies guarding the bus. There are detailed escape plans in Williams own handwriting. Williams never executed this plan, but his co-conspirator implicated Williams in the scheme. The fact that Williams conspired to murder several others to effectuate his escape from jail while awaiting his murder trial is consistent with guilt, not innocence. And the timing of the motel murders less than two weeks after the murder of Albert Owens shows a callous disregard for human life.”
Personally, I can’t wait for the ABC movie about the bomb plot.
Ed - What you say makes great sense, and I would agree with you except for two things: 1) My feeling, and I could be wrong, is that the American people, for the most part, feel that a person who takes a life, should have their life taken. I could be wrong, but I believe that it’s true, and must be dealt with.
The other thing, that is more important, is that a person in prison for life can commit any crime in prison, with no fear of consequences. You can’t put him in solitary for the rest of his life, can you?
Just food for thought.
C’mon Bloodsuckers (including Oliver),
Can’t any of you answer my questions?
Where’s the infallible evidence of absolute guilt? Hedley provides a hearsay statement from Lora Owens (which, of course, only qualifies evidence to a retard) and then cites unnamed witnesses (deal cutters?) who claim to have heard a 5-6 minute laugh. Jeebus … and these are the guys who would insist on photographic evidence coupled with a taped confession before they would ever find Bush made a mistake. How sick is it that the standard to off a black man is apparently lower to these bloodsuckers than to ever admit Bush’s mistakes?
Do any of you believe juries make mistkes? — hasn’t the right always trashed jury verdicts they didn’t like, e.g. the OJ criminal trial and the Michael Jackson trial. Didn’t the left trash the Rodney King/Simi Valley jury verdict?
And yet the pro-abortion crowd, who has no qualms about the killing of an innocent baby gets their panties all in a bunch over the thought of killing a guilty murderer.
Stereotypes and sweeping generalizations can be so much fun.
I find it intersting that the “Right to Life” crowd invariably supports the “death penalty”, and that their Christian principles do not prevent them from killing during war time; or, at least sending others to kill for them.
It seems all they really want is to decide who lives and who dies.
Macswain, hitting the bottle pretty hard today, I see. It is astounding that the most famously liberal state courts in the nation upheld his conviction and sentence time and time again and yet you know better.
It’s too bad you are wasting your obvious talents on a blog when you should be saving the convicted criminals everywhere. Maybe you can get your own show on CBS called the “Convict Whisperer”
Free Mumia!
Hedley of God,
Now he’s decided that not only to play executioner on evidence he would never find sufficient if against Bush, but to tell us where life begins.
I wonder if when he cums in the stink does he look at his vile mug in the mirror and cry, “I’m a murderer!” Or does his all-powerful definition conveniently exclude the act of masterbation from the destruction of life? I’ll bet his definition of life only begins with the selfempowerment of telling women what to do with their wombs.
Hedley,
Nice cut and paste job. Apparently you think lengthy posts now count as weighty evidence.
You have one alleged eyewitness who testified after getting immunity for participating in the murder (which nicely allowed him to commit a later murder) and 4 confession witnesses all criminals who testified after being paid off with avoidance of prison/jail time. At least, one - Coleman - who recanted his testimony claiming to have given after being beaten by the police.
As to the sole piece of forensic evidence, you despicably leave out the fact that the first ballistic tests of the shotgun did not find it to be the murder weapon. Only after being asked to retest it — (uhm uhm uhm - give us a better answer) did the firearms expert conclude it fired one shell found at the scene.
Other than that - you got nothing.
I’ve never said that Williams is innocent - I don’t know - but I do know the evidence at hand is not sufficient for me to play God and say a man should die much less express glee over it.
Bite that, you weak-ass bloodsucker.
Of course, the prosecutor who tried the case doesn’t know what he is talking about.
http://feeds.losangelesnews.net/?rid=3daf8853d3376080&cat=a7d0846f876c8187&f=1
Here is a death row case worth rallying behind -
http://www.volokh.com/archives/archive_2005_12_11-2005_12_17.shtml#1134497241
It looks fairly likely that the guy killed a cop in self defense and is now on death row.
randy, looking at that case rather quickly, it does seem compelling. It will be interesting to see how the process plays out over the years of appeals.
Lots More:
http://tinyurl.com/ag8rg
Randy and Hedley, there’s much more here. There’s some blog activity concerning this case, but without a few liberal movie stars to take up his banner, he doesn’t have much of a chance.
Hedley,
I thought the President of Iran was the dumbest man on the planet, but you might be up for giving him a run for the title.
After taking an ass-whippin’ on the evidence against Williams, you have offered a feint & dodge by proclaiming the California State courts as the “most famously liberal.”
You obviously don’t live in California, because if you did you might be aware that 5 of the 6 current Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republicans (it was 6 of 7 until rightwing whackjob - one of the most coservative judges in the nation - Janice Rogers Brown - moved on to the DC Circuit).
You are obviously unaware of what happened to the Rose Bird court - a recall effort that established the overturning of death penalty convictions as the third rail of California jurisprudence.
Please name us this oh-so liberal California judge that actually has been reversing oh-so many death penalty convictions and who considered the Williams case.
Your second argument is even worse - “screw the evidence, the prosecutor says he’s guilty.” Tens of death row inmates have been set free through the DNA project. In none of those cases did prosecutors step forward and say they got it wrong before DNA proved otherwise.
Indeed, Hedley contradicts himself by questioning the Maye conviction when there is nothing available that the prosecutor is backing off his claim of guilty. It’s always amazed me how quickly, and unwittingly, these righties will contradict themselves.
Well. well, Macswain wakes up from his afternoon stupor to dazzle us with his witty retorts and biting analysis. Let’s see how he did.
I thought the President of Iran was the dumbest man on the planet, but you might be up for giving him a run for the title.
Oh, so witty. I know you are but what am I?
After taking an ass-whippin on the evidence against Williams, you have offered a feint & dodge by proclaiming the California State courts as the most famously liberal.
Ass-whippin’? What you do on your time is really none of our concern. However, it’s hardly an “ass-whippin’” when his conviction has been reviewed at least 11 times by the state and federal courts none of which saw any reason to overturn his conviction.
You obviously don t live in California, because if you did you might be aware that 5 of the 6 current Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republicans (it was 6 of 7 until rightwing whackjob - one of the most coservative judges in the nation - Janice Rogers Brown - moved on to the DC Circuit).
Ooooh. Republicans. First, I said courts, with an “s”. That means plural. Besides the Supreme Court, California has nearly twice as many judges as all federal judges combined. Now recall, if you can, that your boy Tookie had his conviction reviewed at least 11 times and not one court overturned it or commuted his death sentence. This in a state where its death sentences get reversed at a rate of seven to one!
You are obviously unaware of what happened to the Rose Bird court - a recall effort that established the overturning of death penalty convictions as the third rail of California jurisprudence.
You mean the Supreme Court Chief Justice who refused to do her job and voted against the death penalty all 61 times it was before her, merely on principal? No, never heard of her.
Please name us this oh-so liberal California judge that actually has been reversing oh-so many death penalty convictions and who considered the Williams case.
See above. 11 times the WIlliams case was reviewed by a judicial system that reverses 7 death sentences for every 1 that it affirms.
Your second argument is even worse - screw the evidence, the prosecutor says he s guilty. Tens of death row inmates have been set free through the DNA project. In none of those cases did prosecutors step forward and say they got it wrong before DNA proved otherwise.
No. My second “argument” is simply to present the side of the story that you don’t want anyone to read.
Indeed, Hedley contradicts himself by questioning the Maye conviction when there is nothing available that the prosecutor is backing off his claim of guilty.
Indeed, Macswain makes a fool of himself by revealing his inability to read. I said that I looked at that case “rather quickly”and indeed, did not even see the prosecutor’s position which, I am sure, will likely make what appears to be a compelling caese in favor of the defendant, less so.
It s always amazed me how quickly, and unwittingly, these righties will contradict themselves.
It always amazes me how the leftwingnuts like B.J. Macswain Honeycutt are afraid to admit that there is another side to the story.
Free Mumia!
Ha Ha Ha
Your piece states that the California State Courts — the ones you called “the most famously liberal state courts in the nation” — are actually the most conservative courts in the country when it comes to overturning death penalty cconvictions. Even with your disingenuous attempt to add federal courts into the mix, California death penalty convictions are only overturned on average with the rates of the rest of the Nation as a whole. So much for being the most liberal.
NOW BACK ON TOPIC - None of these courts can stop an execution simply based on the fact that there is no infallible evidence. Congress and the conservative U.S. Supreme Court have increasingly restricted federal habeas claims. Most importantly, the sufficiency of evidence standard is so low, Williams could’ve been executed solely on the say so of Alfred Coward. AND THAT’S MY POINT & WHAT IS WRONG HERE - the death sentence should not be used when a conviction is based on fallible evidence.
BTW - I did notice that O Dub (w/ his DLC-Lite position on this issue) chickened out on this whole debate. His tough talk sure impressed La Shawn Barber (& maybe even some of the Dem bigwigs who know not to touch death penalty issues with a ten-foot pole).
If anyone is interested in reading what hell “tookie” and his “homies” brought to the neighborhoods of Central Los Angeles, David Anderson lived it and has written abut it -
“The death of Tookie Williams today got me to reminiscing about my days living under the shadow of the Crip Empire. My first memory of the rise of modern street gangs in Los Angeles was in the early 60’s. One of my older sisters was a member of the Slausonettes, a predecessor to the Crips later rival, the “Bloods” who were originally called the “Brims.” My earliest impressions of gangs were romantic.”
http://www.grupo-utopia.com/blog/isou/archives/2005/12/life_under_the.php