This storm happened 5 days ago, and there has been no leadership in America.
“New Orleans hospital halts patient evacuations after coming under sniper fire, a doctor who witnessed the incident says.” — CNN
McClellan Misleads on Early Emergency Declaration
“Fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flood-stricken New Orleans slipped toward anarchy Thursday. “This is a desperate SOS,” the mayor said.
Anger mounted across the city as thousands of storm victims grew increasingly hungry, desperate and tired of waiting for buses to take them out.” — AP
UPDATE: Dennis Hastert says it “doesn’t make sense” to rebuild New Orleans. What the eff is wrong with these people?
UPDATE 2: MoveOn is matching people up for Hurricane Housing.
What would Oliver have done? I would love to read something that actually shows what somebody else would have done, rather than President Bush is wrong. Show me something that should have, and could have, been done, that was not.
I would have funded the levies, I would have sent in Natl Guard the minute the storm died down, I would have dropped food so that our fellow Americans wouldnt be sitting there and starving like this is a damn 3rd world country.
The levee issue is a non-starter, but I will just have to accept the fact that you will continue to carp about something that would not have made any difference.
Would not have gone to Iraq is absolutely and utterly unrelated to how you would have prepared for a hurricane differently.
Global warming … nice one. Too bad that the scientists say that it had no effect on the hurricane, and ignores the cyclical nature of mother nature.
Tax revenues and receipts are at all time highs, so I fail to see how your scenario plays out.
So all of those sick and old people should have been paid at the end of the month, that way, when the storm comes in the middle of the month, you would still have something to complain about.
I suppose dropping in tons and tons of supplies, MRE’s, and water into NO prior to the storm dissapating is always a possibility, albeit futile and stupid.
It’s hard to believe, but Jay C and the other cons literally have no problem with the fact that Bush defunded the levees. Their only defense is that this sort of problem was unpreventable and unforseeable. Naturally, they are unable to prove that claim, though they demand the most rigorous form of proof from anyone who so much as questions the wisdom of Bush’s levee cuts. That’s not leadership. That’s kindergarten.
How about not going to war with Iraq so we can work on our problems at home?
Or - trusting data (science…boo) that says we are moving to disater with regards to the environment and health/safety - that global warming is real and bad things happen not because the gods are angry but because we are hurting ourselves…
or protecting the wetlands between NO and the Gulf
Their only defense is that this sort of problem was unpreventable and unforseeable.
Yeah well maybe you can explain with your knowledge of physics how a 15 foot wall can withstand a 22 foot storm surge.
I mean you’ve convinced right? It was Chimpy who “defunded the levees” so it would have held up right? Never mind that they were never designed to withstand a storm of Katrina’s strength.
You know.
I would have rolled back the tax cuts so that all these literally life saving programs could be funded. I would also have made some sort of contingency plan for the fact for all those sick and old people who get their checks on the first of the month would be screwed if a hurricane came at the end of the month, it could strand them in their homes. I would have provided more MREs in every metro area to last at least a week for thousands of people in case of a dirty bomb attack. In fact, I assumed they had done that one. I guess not.
I would have funded the levies
The levees that wouldn’t have been able to withstand this kind of storm. The levees that could weren’t scheduled to be studied until 2008.
I would have sent in Natl Guard the minute the storm died down
11,000 were ready by late Tuesday.
I would have dropped food so that our fellow Americans wouldnt be sitting there and starving like this is a damn 3rd world country.
Dropped food? Drop it where? Into streets flooded with water?
Oh and the storm did not happen “5 days ago.” It didn’t make landfall until this past Monday and didn’t clear the entire area until Tuesday.
Oh and Think Progress says:
The Bush administration should not be bragging about last Tuesday s disaster declaration.
Well gee, that’s because McClellan was talking about federal emergency declaration made regarding Katrina this past Saturday.
Fact: Congress has reduced levee funding over the last four years.
Fact: One of the projects that didn’t receive funding would have studied category 4 and 5 protection for a period of 4 years, beginning in 2004, with some sort of conclusion to be delivered in 2008.
Fact: Regardless of any funding problems, nothing would have been done to prepare the levee system for a cat 4 or 5 hurricane before 2008.
Fact: Congress’ levee funding cuts had no impact on the events of this week.
Reasonable people can debate just how many federal tax dollars should go into funding the levee system. However, blaming the disaster we are seeing today on the cuts made to date, is just not supported by the facts.
All this being said, I’m sure TomY et. al. will continue to spout their new anti-Bush talking point, not having a clue as to what they’re talking about.
So JD are you suggesting that the chaos we are seeing is the best we could do/hope for? This is the best America can do help itself? I’m stunned. The government had at least two days notice to mobilize its resources.
The first thing that Bush, his administration and everyone on down the chain to the mayor of NO should have done was to expect the worst. No one could have aniticipated that the levees would not hold? Gimme break. That’s the first thing they should have anticipated and planned for.
So what could have been done in two days? Develop a realistic and workable evacuation plan, set up shelters in outlying regions for evacuees, move Guard troops and equiptment to the edges of the effected area for rapid response, plan a reliable communications systems beyond private civilian cell phones, move naval hosptical ships near the region for rapid response, coordinate with the Army Corps of engineers to see what was needed if the levees broke, etc, etc. Many of these things have happened in the days since Katrina hit. Some have yet to be worked out. Little of it was done in the two days before when it would have made the most difference. Doing all of this and more in the two days leading up to the disaster would have been a herculean task and would have required real leadership. Yes, we are all Americans and we should all be pissed that our government had failed us so miserably.
Again, Jay C. is flogging the meme that these levees wouldn’t have stood up to the storm.
This fact is indisputable: we will never know because AWOL George diverted monies away from completing the levee projects. IOW, AWOL George gave NOLA no chance as opposed to a good chance.
Yeah well maybe you can explain with your knowledge of physics how a 15 foot wall can withstand a 22 foot storm surge.
More foolishness from Jay. The levee system was designed with the understanding it was very likely weather-related storm surges would crest levees. There would be flooding, some of it manageable by the pumping systems; some of it would overwhelm the existing pumping systems (a problem deferred because of AWOL George).
What happened last weekend was that two levees completely failed; they were breached. The issue isn’t one of height–it’s of strength.
‘I’m not saying it wouldn’t still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have,’ said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps’ budget.”
Read it again, cons. Bush ignored the warnings, defunded the levees, and put politics over competence. Anyone who defends that truly does hate America.
Global warming & nice one. Too bad that the scientists say that it had no effect on the hurricane, and ignores the cyclical nature of mother nature.
Wrong.
There may not be more hurricanes because of global warming, but there’s plenty of evidence that warmer water and climate make the storms more powerful.
CS
We’re going in circles. All I have ever said is that the levee cuts *may* have contributed to this disaster. And your non-response is to assert that Bush’s levee cuts had nothing to do with it, something the public officials I’ve quoted in the Times Picayune article disagree with.
FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers have been crying Cassandra for years, and Bush did not listen. Even if he had not requested those cuts in his budgets, he still has derelict in his duty. That he made those cuts — that jut compounds the problem. We all agree that Bush’s hurricane/flood prevention strategy was running on borrowed time. I just happen to think he should be held responsible for it, and you just want to give him a pass. Responsibility only applies to Dan Rather and Kofi Annan in your world. It’s simply pathetic.
Congress authorized more in funding than the Bush administration asked for, though still way under what is needed.
Via Wonkette
for the love of god, IT WASN’T THE STORM SURGES THAT BROKE THE LEVEE!
It was rain flooding Lake Ponchatrain that did it! That levee was known to be weak and that particular location was due to be repaired in 2003. THAT VERY FUCKING LOCATION!
OMG THESE PEOPLE MAKE ME WANT TO SCREAM!
Oh, no Jade, you’re wrong about that. The cons have assured me, on their personal word of honor, that they are certain Bush’s funding cuts never could have possibly had anything to do with this catastrophe. Why no, they aren’t experts, nor do they have special knowlege of the situation, why do you ask?
Just a few observations/rhetorical questions from the safer side of the Atlantic:
1) If any US President had had the backbone to sign up to any of the Ecological treaties, then this climate change may have not happened so quickly. This includes both Bush and Clinton. I think Reagan had a better green record than the pair of them.
2) Why are people starving when it was known that this particularly bad storm was approaching for the previous two weeks?
3) The same people who suggested we “err on the side of life” some months ago, are now calling for search and rescue to be abandoned in favour of shooting people looting. Why the change in stance?
4) Who builds cities surrounded by water at a altitude lower than sea level?
I’m sorry to sound facetious when people are dying.
One more thing, this comparison to the tsunami is rediculous. There were hours not days to escape the tsunami, and no warning system. Doesn’t the Gulf get a hurricane 3 or 4 times a year?
This fact is indisputable: we will never know because AWOL George diverted monies away from completing the levee projects.
These projects WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
I’m done with you idiots.
Go ahead and continue to mentally masturbate and take pride in knowing that you are helping so many in the area with your accusations that this is all Chimpy’s fault.
You simps deserve each other.
I m not saying it wouldn t still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have, said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps budget.
JayC and JD seem to think they know more than the experts. They know so much that they can categorically rule out the notion that *any* of Bush’s levy cuts had *any* impact.
What would compel them to make such dramatic declarations of fact about an area they know so little about? Why, the fact that they are whores, of course.
No, frameone, that is not what I am suggesting. However, to a certain degree, when dealing with the largest natural disaster to strike the United States, one might expect a certain level of chaos, despite all of the best efforts and best intentions. I know you would have us all believe that somehow President Bush could have held back the floods, flipped a switch to restore the power, and had sufficent food, clothing, and shelter, for millions of people at the drop of a hat. I would suggest that is not only an incredibly naive point of view, but so far removed from reality to render it not even worth considering. They are not called disasters because they leave sunshine, roses, and birds singing in their wake. Unfortunately, a certain level of chaos is a natural, known, and expected by-product of any natural disaster, and even moreso in one as widespread and devastating as this one.
we all know that the improvement due to be studied until 2008 would have prevented or lessened the impact of this, 3 years prior to the study being completed.
Apples and oranges. You keep referring to study–one which the head of the US Army Corps of Engs is on record as saying is a non-starter—as the only potential improvement that was cut.
That simply isn’t true.
Come on, Jay C … we all know that the improvement due to be studied until 2008 would have prevented or lessened the impact of this, 3 years prior to the study being completed.
I have to give them credit though, this is a great sounding talking point. Right up to the point where one examines the facts behind it. But, as usual, they will never let the facts get in the way of a good talking point, and this one is good.