It’s time somebody started saying these things, that it’s coming from “America’s Dad” is that much more powerful.
Bill Cosby: African-Americans ‘Not Holding Up Their End of the Deal’
Cosby calls his town meetings “call outs” and has traveled to 12 cities so far, spreading his message of personal responsibility.
He has lambasted “lower-economic people,” parents who spend more on athletic shoes than education, and children who use poor English and curse constantly. He has said blacks need to stop blaming whites and take control of their children and their communities.
“Nine hundred kids enter many of these high schools, and 35 walk out with diplomas,” Cosby told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. “The rest are in prison, pregnant or wandering around doing nothing.”
Critics have dubbed it the “Blame the Poor Tour,” and blasted Cosby’s remarks as hurtful and stereotypical.
Martin asked Cosby about those criticisms.
“I would say they are trying to move away from the problem,” Cosby said. “They’re trying to deal me some cards other than the hand that I’m talking about. I don’t talk about the television set that works. I call the mechanic about that one that’s broken.”
Black America needs to hear this if there is any hope for its future survival.
Bill Cosby is only partially right — in a very small way.
Nearly all the black people I know are involved in either social services or recovery, so they are not representative of all blacks. I think, however that they are mostly representative of what ails blacks.
They are extraordinarily materialistic, and measure success by money and “bling”
They assume the world is a place where hustlers and “playas” get ahead of honest folks.
They assume, that, by and large, white people are not to be trusted. One of the ways I gained the trust of the black friends I do have is by just being myself — I have never been patronizing, and I never, never acted black — not so much as a “Yo” or a “What’s up?”
These things are not changed by exhortations from people whose real lives resemble Cliff Huxtable’s.
I find Cosby’s rants about as obnoxious as Limbaugh’s for about the same reasons. They did what they did because they could — not because they just wanted to.
I’m sure he’s right, but that muddled paragraph full of mixed metaphors that don’t seem to mean anything, didn’t make his point very well. Cosby is an extremely bright and articulate educator and communicator; he can do better than that paragraph.
I see this as a sign that African Americans may have finally “arrived” in the mainstream: they’ve fallen victim white mainstream American failings like consumerism, rebellion-for-its-own-sake, and a lazy sense of entitlement (think George W. Bush and his “hard work” vacation schedule).
I’ve watched most immigrant groups go through this cycle: they start with being oppressed, build a sense of ethnic pride and solidarity, knuckle down to work really really hard to get respect and get ahead, then get lazy and amoral just like the mainstream white folks who had previously held them down. Racism has made this a much longer struggle for Black folks in this country than for Irish, Jews, Italians, Hispanics, etc. but I see the same pattern taking shape.
Cosby should do his tour through white neighborhoods too. I think they need to be having the same conversation also.
Blaming “white America” isn’t a whole lot different from blaming the victim — it implies that “white society” must change (whatever that is) so tha minorities can fit into it.
You and Cosby are missing the point. Cosby is not telling the people who are having difficulty changing how they can change.
And which immigrant group, pray tell, has become “lazy and amoral” like the “mainstream white folks who had previously held them down”?
I can’t wait to read this…
Fancy athetic shoes are good for one thing: Marching! Time to wake from your slumber. They have more power than they know.
Frank_D, you don’t read much about history, do you? The “lazy and amoral” applies to many former minorities - Italians, Irish, the old wave of Hispanics, Chinese who have been here a long time. It’s not that they’re any more lazy and amoral than us Anglos, it’s just that since they became a part of mainstream American life, they’re not as known for their hard work as they used to be. The Irish basically built all the infrastructure in the northeast, just like the Chinese out West.
It’s taken the Blacks a long time to catch up because they have been an opressed minority longer than the rest. They only really received non-oppressed status about 35 years ago. We’re now seeing the same pattern that goatchowder mentioned in the new hispanics.
And don’t get me started on Canadians.
And which immigrant group, pray tell, has become lazy and amoral like the mainstream white folks who had previously held them down ?
Pretty much every immigrant group who ceases to maintain their distinct identity and assimilates to the “mainstream” becomes, by definition, just as “lazy and amoral” as everyone else. This is the very reason why many immigrant groups are protective of their identities and has a suspicion of intermarriage– because they don’t want their families to mirror the surrounding culture.
I’m a honky, so what do I know?
Its all just about phases of adaptation, its just that the timeline is so long its hard to see from within. Blacks, browns, reds, yellows, and whites all have paths to take to go from one point to another. Its just that right now Cosby sees the black community as lazy and materialistic. Theres nothing racist about calling that out, same as the white community attempts to bring Alabama up to current times, by introducing fire and soap to the trailer parks.
Every race style community has to be able to point out the truth of a situation in order for that situation to change. Comedy is usually humor over the top of truth. It wouldn’t be funny if it wasn’t true. The white Bill Cosby may even be a Jeff Foxworthy, calling out rednecks for the absurdities in a backwards attempt to get them to change.
Of course, right now with new job creation dying and payroll levels declining, encouraging the lower class of any race to “work harder” isn’t going to carry the weight it would have 6 years ago.
pionar: where do you get off insulting me, because I don’t “read history”?
You’re the one who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground! I never heard such stereotypical crap in my life!
Archie Bunker wouldn’t even accept your characterization.
Immigrant groups come here and work real hard, and then they get successful and get lazy and start oppressing other minorities. And then I guess Jimmy Cagney, Paul Muni, and Al Pacino have a big shootout.
Holy crap — are you an idiot or what?
I guess the Italian gardners are working for the Sopranos, and Chico is living next door to George Lopez.
Please, go to a library, ask the librarian for a book on immigration — any book, besides the TV Guide — you’re killing me!
You re the one who doesn t know his ass from a hole in the ground! I never heard such stereotypical crap in my life!
Conservative since 63! I’d recognize you anywhere! As they say, a thorn by any other name…
Keep it up pionar maybe it will work and this troll will go away…
Thank you, mouse.
I knew Frank seemed familiar, but I couldn’t quite figure it out.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh, Pionar, so I’ll tone it down a bit
The black Americans to whch Bill Cosby is referring haven’t been here for a hundred years or so. They’ve been here since at least 1808.
They’re not recent “immigrants” from Africa, or the Caribbean, or South America.
As I said above, my experience with blacks is in social services and in recovery. Nearly all of them have spent some time living in urban or exurban areas, and have southern roots. So even if other “hyphenated - Americans” followed the oversimplified (and skewed to the left, of course) path of acculturation you described, rest assured the “Afro - Americans” filling up the Social Services offices, the unemployment offices, and the jail cells of America, are not them.
Ok, Frank, do you think this is caused by racial identity and its bubble-like mentality or is it just because of their skin color?
MommyCool notes that Bill Cosby speaks out against people s poor choices. Bill Cosby had inappropriate relations outside of marriage. Current allegations, from a woman who said he drugged and fondled her, have not yet been tried. Should people heed Cosby s advice? Of course. Even though he hasn t followed it himself, the message should not be discarded. People, including Cosby, need to take responsibility for their mistakes. Cosby is braver than most by speaking publicly with a truthful message, while shouldering his own issues.
I’ve always liked and respected Bill Cosby. His recent activism only makes me like and respect him more. Now if only there were some well-known and well-respected evangelical Christian leaders who were preaching the same sort of message in opposition to the Fallwells and those guys…
BlikyBoy: I know enough to describe what I see. I’m inclined to believe in a mix of real, undeniable suffering (i.e., prejudice, undereducation, poverty), victimhood (fed mostly by the leftists and their allies in the major US political parties — mostly, but not limited to, Democrats, and, of course, professional instigators like Julian Bond, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson), and the “crab bucket” mentality, wherein successful blacks accommodate less successful blacks by allowing themselves to be “pulled back down” by poorer blacks. I think this is who Cosby ought to be talking to.
Just as a hypothetical, what do you think the reaction would be if Cosby’s exact same words had been said by Attorney General Ashcroft? Or Senator Byrd?
JD: This is what I was referring to (indirectly) above:
I see you are lumping everyone in the room that disagrees with you in a nicely fit frame where you can conveniently discount everything that is said from that point on. Great.
Just out of curiosity, why do you appear to be espousing a collective responsibility for blacks/minorities. Do you believe whites have a collective responsibility to whites? When was the last time you spoke out against unsafe trailer homes and taught rednecks that its not safe to leave those Camero’s on cinder blocks because their 8 children play in it?
Being an infrequent visitor here I will not call a spade a spade. But I will chime in.
First of all I would like to give you my qualifications to speak on this issue. Yeah I’m sure you’ve all heard it before but I WAS borne a poor black child. First generation Northerner on BOTH sides of my family. My mothers family I was raised with 11 other cousins as if we were all brothers and sisters. Of the males I am the only one that hasn’t had children out of wedlock, done time, or been in rehab for crack. The girls to a one have all had at least 2 kids out of wedlock or died from OD’s. And I’m the only one that doesn’t live with in 10 miles of my mother (In fact I live in a mother state 8 hours away from Home .)
I grew up in a Major city in the mid-west and recent;y moved to the hills and lived in a small town. I have known and been friends with blacks form every strata. From Doctors to (Self identified) Thugs .
The problem is many fold, but it is mainly one of Perception . Both how we are seen and how we see ourselves. But this problem is made worse by The Media .
I will address the point of view of others.
For some reason a black person in this country can’t be middle class with out being a professional, member of the Nation of Islam or A credit to the race . In the small town I moved to that I spoke of above. I was expected to be something I’m not, a Thug . But it is obvious that I am not by my manor and the way I carry myself. First I was offended, who the hell do these people think they are playing with!? was my reaction. Then I listened to what they were saying. The statement I heard over and over again was You not like a normal black person. as if it was a complement. They were comparing me to the Extras from rap videos as I call them. My pants fit my ass I speak with a decidedly Midwestern accent. My gamer and enunciation is not always perfect, but I give it a go when I’m doing business or speaking with someone who is not a friend. I dress in clothes that are not loud flashy, in style, nor sports related. In short I an a man like any other. Then because I work in hospitals I am ALWAYS asked if I’m A Doctor . To most whites a black man has to be either a Thug or a Doctor. Why? Because with little experience with blacks the only models they have are from TV and there we are either …. You get my point.
Now From the inside.
Blacks have lost a sense of who they are. And like anyone who is not sure of them selves they take their cues from how they are treated and what models they have. We are the only minority that can be seen even from a distance. Thus being harassed for DWB, WWB and the worst BB (driving while black, walking while black, being while black.) Think it doesn’t happen any more? Think again. I have been stopped and had ID demanded from me for walking down the street. Pulled over twice in less than 20 minutes for a Safety check of my vehicle(Though nothing on the car was checked, not even the lights). A police officer pounded on my door, demanding I open it up, held his finger over the peep hole and threatened me with being shot if I didn’t open the door. He changed his tune when I threatened him back and said I was going to call the cops and say that there was a man at my door pounding. To top it all off after he showed me his police ID through the peep hole and I opened the door he tried to barge in my home uninvited. And why all this humiliation? He was looking for someone . He left mad with out even giving me a description. Now this all happened to me with in 2 months. And this says nothing about the Purse clutching , Child Shielding , and service refusals I deal with on a daily basis. If that was how people reacted to your presence how would you feel? Where would you look for a model of how to be yourself? Most black people look not to the everyday heroes we see, fathers who work everyday trying to feed a family on 70 cents on the dollar to our counterparts at work. We look to what is ever present the TV where sports stars, actors and Polictos are more on every channel next to Tupoc and Snoop.
That all said here is the kicker…. MOST black people are the everyday heroes. Like me we work and take care of our families, Love our friends and contribute to our communities. Like most whites we are neither Thugs nor Doctors.
So yes Cosby was right, is right but not for the reasons some people here seem to think.
The hardest thing for white guy, about relating to the problems of Black America, is being thought of as condescending. I know that my immigrant ancestors didnt like being told they werent as ambitious as the Irish and they should try harder.
I never really understood if I was a racist or a bigot. Everybody has some prejudice that they grow up with. Whether I like or dislike you because of your ethnicity I think is the wrong question. It is whether my dislike of you causes me to hinder your success.
One black poltician back in the 60’s said he respected George Wallace more than Ted Kennedy because he knew Wallace hated him and he thought Teddy was two faced.. What he forgets is that whether Ted likes you or not, he worked for poltical and economic equality for minorities.
When I was a preschooler in Chicago, my mother and I were the only blond people in a Jewish neighborhood. I never experienced the kind of bigotry and insults at any time in the rest of my life. In fact, the black people who worked in the neighborhood treated my mother and I as fellow Negroes since the Jewish homemakers treated both us and them with the same contempt. We rode the El, the only white people on the train for miles, and no one treated us as anything but neighbors. My mother was shocked because, like me, she was from a tiny rural commmunity with one black citizen and had never spoken to him. She was probably scared to speak to any black person until we moved to Chicago.
She had never experienced a one to one conversation with any minority before and had no idea what would happen. But, after a few days, we both felt at ease with the folks on the El. I had so much respect for everyday people who no reason to treat us as well as they did, not deferentialy, but neighborly. What they did probably made my politics and my empathy. I was probably one of the few in my all white grade school that knew black people were really people.
But , it was pretty cool, being exposed to gospel music, even on the train. ..I started listening to gospel in Chicago and later, to jazz because of my exposure to black culture. I later considered myself the hippest ten year old in the entire state of North Dakota because I knew who Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie were..
Nobody, black or white or Jewish is free from bigotry. I want people to have the same opportunities, but now I am told by conservative African Americans that I am keeping them down by trying to help.
At the University I attended, I met motivated kids of all minorities and I felt blessed to be treated equally by them. It still is hard, as a white guy, to keep from being too kind or deferential to the point of being thought as a suck up. I dont know….America was built with inequities, from indentured servitude, to slavery to the anhiliation of native peoples. I just want to get a fair shake, for myself and others. That’s all my RUssian grandfather ever wanted when he came here.
One day, Joe, If you work for a black man like me, you’ll understand something you haven’t understood yet - which is that your destiny to help people is just that. Perhaps your situation has put you in the same boat as Frank_D, who in his entire life has only seemed to manage to associate with blacks who are his inferiors.
I have found that those who find it easiest to deal with blackfolks are those who have served above, beside, and below them in the armed forces.
So from my perspective, ‘exposure to black culture’ is something of a non-starter. Everybody is exposed to black culture. What it really comes down to is the direct respect required to work under black leadership. That’s when you get it - when your success or failure depends upon your ability and willingness to be lead by a black individual.
That’s what the conservative African Americans are trying to tell you.
Mr. Cobb
You misspelled ‘led.’