Behold! The Fiorina Effect…
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Heck of a choice there California GOP.
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For context, you place it against the S&P 500 or the Dow. To me, that could just as well reflect the tech boom/bust of that period, and the resulting recession. Did she underperform or overperform with respect to other tech companies and the market?
Aw come on now…you mean you don’t want the team of Whitman and Fiorina running California? Carly can run it (further) into the ground then when she’s done with it, Meg can sell the state on ebay!
The Palin Effect.
“Palin’s backing pays off for pals”
You think Fiorina being the nom is a *good* thing for your virtual girlfriend? You just gave Boxer the seat.
I’m no closer to California than you are; I didn’t give Boxer or Fiorina anything. When Palin wrote a nice word or two on her Facebook page for Angela McGlowan on the actual day of her primary in Miss., you blamed her loss in large part on Citizen Sarah. I’m just wondering if she’s making a resurgence now after causing McGlowan to give up the lead she must’ve had on that last day of the campaign but lost by 35 points.
Carly should’ve known better than to ascend to one of the largest tech companies in the world just before a tech bubble, and as a woman no less. If she had known she was going to run for the Senate, she’d have been much smarter to have been a community organizer.
Hmmm, I wonder how the community did during the time our nation’s most famous community organizer was the community organizer for.
Look at Apple’s, Microsoft’s, Amazon’s stock prices during that same period. See anything familiar?
But … those companies have male CEOs, so Oliver loves them. Why must you be so sexist?
Dennis, as a CA resident, I can tell you that Fiorina is probably the worse of the possible Republican candidates to run against Boxer this year, especially if she tries using her demon sheep commercial that she deployed against Tom Campbell.
Oh, and unlike Fiorina, Obama wasn’t ‘released’ from his position they way Fiorina was, but thanks for playing “Dumb, Inaccurate Analogies”, Denise the Menace.
Same folks who thought the former President ran baseball, was an oil magnate and a grew up a cowboy. Failure is applauded.
The Boxer Effect:
A $5.9 Billion surplus vs Boxer’s $38.5 Billion DEFICIT.
http://emergentfool.com/2009/05/19/disgusted-with-the-california-budget/
The Boxer Effect:
Boxer’s $38.5 Billion DEFICIT.
http://emergentfool.com/2009/05/19/disgusted-with-the-california-budget/
How many community organizers get “released” from their positions as community organizers as a result of poor performance in their communities, DA? Talk about “Dumb, Inaccurate Analogies”. We’ll see how he fares in 2012 as far as what the people think of his performance in the job he has ascended to, but so far, like Fiorina as HP’s CEO, he hasn’t met the expectations people set out for him. You’ll still vote for him regardless of his performance. But as a voter in Cali who wouldn’t vote for Fiorina even if she were more liberal than Boxer, you’ll blindly point to her former company’s stock chart as a reason other people shouldn’t vote for her.
If performance running a company truly mattered to you, you’d be endorsing Mitt Romney to run for President and you’d endorse him over Obama. It’s a complete joke for you or Oliver to think that executive experience and company performance are high on your list of requirements for a Senate position. Just laughable.
Yes, it’s so unfair to point out that, unlike Jobs and Gates, she was fired by a majority of the board of HP, those goddamn sexist, scapegoating bastards!
Funny how the Right prates about the efficiency of the marketplace, until someone they like has a record of having been tossed out of the marketplace on their ear, then it must have been because of those sexist bastards at HP, not because of Fiorinas’ job performance or anything like that.
You’re the one doing the prattling here, DA. I said she didn’t perform up to expectations. Like Obama, against long odds she rose to a very high position and during a time of crisis, did not do well. I never said anything about sexism having anything to do with her dismissal, I’m just saying it’s nothing but concern trolling, to borrow a favorite nutroots colloquialism, for you to place such a great weight on her prior underperformance as a CEO of HP, when you defend to the death Obama’s lackluster performance as a community organizer and his almost non-existent prior executive experience, especially as it becomes more and more glaring every day now with the Obamatrina (TM) crisis.
Denise the Menace, the point isn’t finding a candidate who succeeded in business like Romney.
The point is that Fiorina has a demonstrated track record of running at least one company in the ground, and she wants to start her political career at the top, like Norton Simon, Roger Huffington, and a number of past Senatorial candidates in CA.
Any sensible Republican in CA will tell you that Tom Campbell(who I’ve seen in person once at a public forum, he’s a good speaker) would’ve been a better pick than Fiorina to run against Boxer because of his greater political experience(he’s actually run for and held public office in the past, unlike Fiorina), but then that’s like telling a blind man about color for Sarah “Starburst” Palin supporters such as yourself, isn’t it?
Oh, and I’d appreciate it if you’d stop stalking my comments, Dennis, unless you want to be known as Dennis the Pervo.
But as a voter in Cali who wouldn’t vote for Fiorina even if she were more liberal than Boxer, you’ll blindly point to her former company’s stock chart as a reason other people shouldn’t vote for her.
Nope, I point to her ‘reward’ from HP for the stock performance in that chart, unless you think she was terminated unfairly for factors beyond her control.
Actually, I was responding to SF, who used the word sexism, not you, Denise the Pervo, who thinks the world revolves around you.
Community organizer? Wow, that’s a great slam. Add in William Ayers and you guys might have the 2008 elections locked up, Dennis.
The point is that Fiorina has a demonstrated track record of running at least one company in the ground, and she wants to start her political career at the top, like Norton Simon, Roger Huffington, and a number of past Senatorial candidates in CA.
Exactly right. She should wait until she has run at least three companies into the ground … and then run for Governor.
The sexism charge is totally fair. At least, it is on this blog where anyone deemed insufficiently supportive of Obama is branded an irredeemable racist.
That canard might apply remotely if you hadn’t been the first one to comment to me, DA. As it is, you’re sadly imitating Quaker and fafaroo. Not only sad, but pathetic. I take on 15 guys at once, gladly, but all 15 guys seem to think if they say ‘photoshop’ enough, then they’ve won whatever argument it was they were previously losing. If you feel bad about getting your lip bloodied after venturing outside on the playground, stay inside your classroom during recess from now on.
Fiorina also illegally wiretapped the H-P board members and sent every American job she could overseas….she’s an ideal Republican….
They’re right, Denise the Menace, even I took you seriously enough to correct your ‘observation’ of the photography of the teabag-hatted gentleman and then when you said “I was kidding” you just went down in history as the doofus who cried ‘Photoshop’!
You’ll find something to bitch and moan about Olivers’ posts here daily while you have neither the initiative nor the ability to start your own blog, so give it up, go back to surfing Palins’
Facebook page one-handed or whatever other pervo things you do in your ‘gated community’.
PHOTOSHOP!
PHOTOSHOP!
PHOTOSHOP!
PHOTOSHOP!
PHOTOSHOP!
Wow… so let me see if I have this straight.
Working under the regulatory fabric created by his predecessors, BP causes a huge natural disaster, in part because Republicans *hate* it when regulations can force business to take safety precautions.
And because Obama can’t wave a magic wand and fix the damage done by a greedy, foolish business that had acted in an egregiously dangerous manner, he’s incompetent – because, after all, if he wasn’t, you and rightwingers in general would be shown off as the kind of people whose hope for success is to fling dung at their enemy, and then claim to smell better.
Because, after all, the right wing had their own President who couldn’t be bothered to end his vacation while waters rose and people died, slowly and horribly, during a critical time when Presidential action could have accomplished something. The shame of having supported such an uncaring, inept bungler is so great that you have to try to find a flaw in someone else.
But let’s talk Katrina for a moment, shall we?
If Obama handled this the way Bush handled Katrina, the deaths of sea life would be excused as how Aquaman, king of the sea, hadn’t ordered a general evacuation, and scorn would be heaped on the fish for not having accepted the aid of a local fishing boat that promised to take a good number out of the danger zone. When people pointed out that the fish don’t have any place to live on dry land (much like those who stayed behind in New Orleans because they didn’t know where they’d be able to stay), they’d be roundly ignored, and pictures of flooded out school buses would be used to pretend that you can just transport the fish out of the danger zone, and *voila* – everything is fine.
Unfortunately, the remainder of the comparison isn’t apt – there weren’t people dying in a situation in which federal action (combined effectively with local and state resources) could have provided assistance. People weren’t slowly dying as Obama sat on his ass, with his staffers afraid to break the news to him and cut short a vacation.
But please, keep reminding us of how your hero, George W. Bush couldn’t live up to the commitments he made to the country – and let’s add in how he kept us safe, because thousands of members of our armed forces were killed, and many thousands more were maimed, in a pointless war.
Fiorina’s victory just shows you that you don’t need to be good to win an election. You just need lots of money. In this case, she even had to spend lots of her own because she couldn’t get enough donations.
Nah, not being a fanboy of Obama doesn’t mean one backs into racism, just as supporting a failed CEO as a political candidate who is of the female gender doesn’t make one a feminist.
However opposing Obama by calling him a raghead(as someone did in S.C. recently, using the same term for the now Republican nominee for Governor there) was clearly racist, if you are dumb enough to need this issue explained to you in the terms I just used.
Of course, Dennis uses sexist language all the time in his comments here, funny how conservatives scream sexism at liberals but not their fellow conservatives when it suits their purpose………….
I don’t recall Obama being fired from any of his past positions, ‘lackluster’ as his performance may have been or not.
It’s risible how you seek to underplay the fact that ‘lackluster’ is definitely understating Fiorinas’ performance that got her fired from HP, she’s probably more suited for an assistant manager at the local HOP that for the Senate given her track record.
Obama managed to get himself elected into office a couple of times before tackling a Presidential run. Too bad Fiorina can’t say the same thing about her record before running for the Senate, eh?
Did you need another bitch slap today, Denise the menace?
Why do businesspeople think that their experience translates to government?
Carly would probably like to outsource our military to the Barbarians. Worked for Rome.
They’re right, Denise the Menace, even I took you seriously enough to correct your ‘observation’ of the photography of the teabag-hatted gentleman and then when you said “I was kidding” you just went down in history as the doofus who cried ‘Photoshop’!
I didn’t say “I was kidding”. That is a misquote. I didn’t claim I had expert knowledge of photoshop, DA, that’s why I asked you knowing you were an amateur photographer what your opinion was. You only offered your opinion because I asked you for it, which should have been a clue to you and everyone else here still squawking over it like nervous macaws 5 days later that I wasn’t making it a definitive claim. You see, DA, if I thought I had the goods on it being a photoshop, I would’ve linked to them instead of asking you what your opinion of the lighting was, which looked off to me. It looked off enough for me to type ‘photoshop’ in order to make the ninnies here go scrambling to find out if it really was or not. I gave you that opening for amusement, and now 5 days later, sadly, you act like it’s your supreme moment of triumph, like it was your expert input that turned the tide that day.
I hope it last 5 months if it lasts 5 more days.
“I went down in history…”. Good Lord, you actually believe this is something historical in the hallowed halls of liberal lore.
Funny, I didn’t realize Boxer had anything to do with passing state laws.
Actually Fiorina underperformed her peers and the stock indices. More importantly in that period, MSFT and AAPL didn’t endure a shareholder revolt or fire their CEOS.
Why are you playing the race card and bringing race into it?
See how easy that is?
Boxer will eviscerate her in November. Carly will be lucky to lose by single digits.
“Carly leads Boxer by 97 points”-Scott Rasmussen
I don’t recall Obama being fired from any of his past positions
I don’t recall Obama ever holding a real job. Who’s in charge of “firing” a community organizer anyway?
The democratic legislature has done a perfectly fine job of doing just what you said without any help from so-called republicans.
Fiorina and Whitman will both lose as they should. They’re both sorry excuses for “republican” candidates and California will slide further into the debt abyss.
I didn’t say “I was kidding”. That is a misquote. I didn’t claim I had expert knowledge of photoshop, DA, that’s why I asked you knowing you were an amateur photographer what your opinion was.
Here’s the direct quote, which seems to imply that you never thought it was Photoshopped in the first place:
If you wanted to see who would dig up the photo from another angle, that would imply that it wasn’t Photoshopped in the first place.
Are you following this so far, or am I using language that you find hard to understand?
You only offered your opinion because I asked you for it
Because your basis for saying it was Photoshopped was the following:
Tell me the shadows and the sunlight angles aren’t inconsistent in that photo with regard to the teabag. Why isn’t there even a speck of sunlight on that dude’s face, when the way the teabag is illuminated is consistent with the guy looking right toward the sun?
Which I did, and I thought your description was the result of poor visual ability, not sheer jackassery, as you seem to implying now.
still squawking over it like nervous macaws 5 days later that I wasn’t making it a definitive claim.
Like you squawked “bitch-slapped” in a comment to me like a nervous macaw?
Good point.
You see, DA, if I thought I had the goods on it being a photoshop, I would’ve linked to them instead of asking you what your opinion of the lighting was, which looked off to me.
I go back to my original conclusion, you can’t see for shit, if you seriously think that someone who has the sun directly in front of them would have half his coat on one side in shade without anything apparently in front of it looks ‘off’.
Carry on, that’s all you ever do around here most of the time on Ollies’ dime.
Did they?
timmy was the only one who bothered to find a picture of the same gentleman at another angle, otherwise, this was the reaction from the other ninnies here:
That’s just funny
Photoshop. You wish.
You forgot to mention the kerning on the label.
After timmy’s post:
I gave you that opening for amusement, and now 5 days later, sadly, you act like it’s your supreme moment of triumph, like it was your expert input that turned the tide that day.
Well, it sure worked for amusement for not just me but the other ninnies, see above.
I neither proved nor disproved that it was Photoshopped, only that you didn’t have any valid arguments for making such a claim in the first place based on your ‘description’ of the picture.
And here we are, 5 days later, and you still have to frantically explain yourself about how you’re the smart guy who set us up to take you seriously in the first place.
Right now, Denise the menace, your credibility is so low that if you said the sun rose in the East, 90% of the commentators would get up extra early to test out your pronouncement, except for Frank, who would say that liberals say the sun rises in the West because they aren’t patriots.
I hope it last 5 months if it lasts 5 more days.
“I went down in history…”. Good Lord, you actually believe this is something historical in the hallowed halls of liberal lore.
“The doofus who cried Photoshop.”
Live up to your accomplishment, doofus.
So, now Palin is a major player?
DA, the first time I get bitch-slapped on here, I’ll let you know, but you’re always welcome to give it your best shot. Any time any of you guys say anything, no matter how trite or obviously canned the response is, you will think it’s a bitch-slap.
Just like Bill Maher or one of his moonbat guests saying something on his show and his audience roars with approval, some liberal blog will pick up the video and say whoever he was talking to or about got bitch-slapped. Standard operating procedure and right out of the liberal handbook. Kid stuff, DA.
He did a lot in a position that wasn’t a ‘real job’, SF:
and working for a law firm isn’t a real job in your world either?
Gersh, he got mentioned favorably in a business magazine, what an utter failure he turned out to be!
Thanks for allowing me give you the Denise the Menace treatment, that ringing in your ears should go away in a few minutes……….
How unfortunate for Ms. Fiorina that she didn’t invent the Ipod, Oliver.
DA, the first time I get bitch-slapped on here, I’ll let you know
You already did the first time you parroted it back at me, it’s all just a matter of arithmetic after that, isn’t it?
Any time any of you guys say anything, no matter how trite or obviously canned the response is, you will think it’s a bitch-slap.
3
As opposed to canned or trite responses about how Obama is running the country into the ground, or how you have to bring him into a thread, along with your gal-pal Palin, that is ostensibly about the Republican nominee for the CA Senate race this year?
Just like Bill Maher or one of his moonbat guests saying something on his show and his audience roars with approvail
Or just like Glenn Beck or one of his wingnut guests says something on his show and fanboys like you repeat it everywhere on the Internet, like 3rd graders scrawling obscenities on a bathroom wall
some liberal blog will pick up the video and say whoever he was talking to or about got bitch-slapped.
4
Yep, because liberal blogs aren’t those citadels of tolerance like RedState, FreeRepublic, etc.
Standard operating procedure and right out of the liberal handbook. Kid stuff, DA.
Yep, and with folks like you who mindless repeat something in an effort to disprove the charge, you’ve fallen into my fiendish trap.
Your chain is easy to pull, Denise the Menace, even when you’re behind the walls of your gated community………
Dennis: DA, the first time I get bitch-slapped on here, I’ll let you know
Dark Avenger: You already did the first time
you parroted it back at meyou ever posted on this blogFixed that for ya.
You vowed never to talk to me again, springchicken. You’re either weak-willed, have a lousy memory, or don’t mind making hollow promises just as long as they’re coupled with childish outbursts.
Actually, come to think of it, all three of those characteristics apply to you.
But do tell, was it a bitch slap when you denied having ever called Joe Biden a racist and I provided your quote where in no uncertain terms you called him exactly that very word? I know you would never stop calling it a bitch-slapt had I completely denied calling someone a racist when I had, but I don’t recall saying I ever bitch-slapped you, even if ever there was a call for it, that one surely was it.
Your chain is easy to pull, Denise the Menace, even when you’re behind the walls of your gated community………
DA, dude, don’t let that one get to you. I just have a major dislike to kids driving by with their infernal boomboxes blaring out their windows, and moving where I did seemed like the logical alternative. I honestly never considered that an added benefit was that I wouldn’t have to worry about internet stalkers like Pervis.
Worked for Bush too. Remember Blackwater?
Don’t forget to include the fact that Obama is a Kenyan usurper. Or that he’s a secret Muslim. Etc.
As a California resident, I look forward to seeing Fiorina (and Meg Whitman) get crushed in November. Unless there’s some major scandal or catastrophe, I don’t see how either can win. And I thank the GOP for continuing to support terrible candidates. More, please.
Blogger please, every tech company took a beating around the .con bust.
HP took a bigger hit because their advertising sucked.
And how unfortunate for you that your single counterexample proves absolutely nothing.
Except, of course, that “They didn’t invent the iPod” can now be added to the list of Dennisisms…
As running a business is a task that should largely have fundamentally different outcomes in mind than does legislating, that is the real issue here, in my view. It speaks volumes about her personal integrity. Or lack thereof…
ONLY 97 points? Has Scotty lost his touch?
On the plus side, we might see the return of DEMON SHEEP(!) during the election.
Are you serious, Prodigal? Do you really think that had HP invented the IPod, or an Mp3 player equally as successful, instead of Apple inventing it, that Oliver’s graph would look just the same?
Do you really need more specifics in order to understand that concept?
Except, of course, that “They didn’t invent the iPod” can now be added to the list of Dennisisms…
Well, it’s true. You know, like the Celtics would have defeated the Lakers last night if they had scored more points. Or the antagonist in a given Scooby Doo episode would have gotten away with it had it not been for Those Meddling Kids. Or if a frog had wings it wouldn’t bump its ass a-hoppin’. Sheesh!
I’m sorry, Indeed. You’re opinion on the matter simply can’t be taken seriously because you once posted something somewhere that I must now pretend is relevant. Unless you didn’t. Then I’m just pretending.
Indeed, it’s not necessary to expound on what an idiot you are.
Outside of informing you that it was Oliver who gave us a graph of three very different tech companies with three very different core business lines to somehow prove that Fiorina underperformed her peers, I’ll let your idiocy here speak for itself. You do a much better job of it than I ever could anyway.
I just have a major dislike to kids driving by with their infernal boomboxes
Jeepers, where’s this gated community located? 1983?
[-1 to me for topic relevance]
Here it’s morons with bass speakers in their cars that give you the “feel your internal organs vibrate” vibe when they drive past you.
One idiot was so loud my wife accused me of having the window open when it was closed when she heard him/her drive past.
Get serious, Indeed. It’s a known fact that the only possible path to success is to invent the iPod.
Madrassa!!!!!
And Hello President McCain and VP Ellie Mae.
It’s a known fact that the only possible path to success is to invent the iPod.
That’s how I win at poker, actually.
Them: “I have a full boat, aces over jacks.”
Me: “I have queen-high. But I invented the iPod, though.”
Them: “Oh, in that case, you win. Nice hand.”
I owe my eternal gratitude to my awesomeness in having invented the iPod.
Gosh, Della, that was exactly what was I saying. In your mind only, but pretty much your were dead on.
You’re so fond of putting words in other people mouths but you seem afraid to answer why you made the wild-ass claim that race was an issue with regards to Obamatrina.
Or in other words, you speak for others but not for yourself.
I prefer to call her Caribou Barbie, but it’s good either way.
Them: “I have a full boat, aces over jacks.”
Me: “I have queen-high. But I invented the iPod, though.”
Them: “Oh, in that case, you win. Nice hand.”
———-
Them: springchicken, do you think Carly Fiorina is qualified to be Senator?
You: No, no I don’t.
Them: Really, why not?
You: Because, dumb bunny, Apple’s stock price did better than HP’s while she was CEO.
Them: But, those two are completely different companies and one big reason is that Apple struck it big on the Ipod, a business line HP never explored. That makes no sense, springchicken.
You: Stop it. It doesn’t matter. Besides, I read it on Oliver Willis’ blog so it makes sense to him. If it’s good enough for him it’s good enough for me.
I did not speak to you. Hush, fool.
Obamatrina
Please don’t ever scold anyone for using pat phrases again.
Thank you.
Even when you’re not addressing him, too, huh? What a creepy stalker.
Also, too: They didn’t invent the iPod. Obviously.
I do believe you just got served, william.
During the primary, Fiorina’s opponents were able to spend very little attacking her, and she was largely able to define herself. Boxer spent next to nothing, and still, the more people saw of Fiorina, the more she trailed Boxer in polling match-ups. Fiorina will lose by 8-10 points in November.
Meg Whitman might have a shot against Jerry Brown, but she’ll have to spend another 80 million to make it close.
Carley Fiorina — #19 on the href=”http://www.cnbc.com/id/30502091/Portfolio_s_Worst_American_CEOs_of_All_Time?slide=3″>list of the worst CEOs in history.
I mean,
Carley Fiorina — #19 on the list of the worst CEOs in history.
If Apple was the only company that HP underperformed against, then you bleating out “She didn’t invent the iPod!” might have meant something. Unfortunately for your attempt at framing a coherent argument, however, Apple was not the only company that HP underperformed against.
It’s almost as if I was responding to someone’s question about how HP did compared to Apple and Microsoft. Ah, wait, there it is.
Furthermore, no HP didn’t come up with the iPod. HP hasn’t innovated on anything in a long time. They certainly didn’t innovate when Carly Fiorina was the company’s CEO.
a business line HP never explored
Actually, this is totally wrong too.
Yes, Carly Fiorina managed to botch the iPod.
Prodigal, again, I honest believe you wouldn’t be able to differentiate your ass from a hole in the ground, much less a computer hardware and printer company from a software company. Maybe you can explain why OW chose MSFT, a giant software company to compare against HP, because I’m at a loss. Or why he chose the NASDAQ for a benchmark, when HP then was a Fortune 20 company and listed on the NYSE.
With Apple, despite being completely different companies and not peers, at least the both sold computers. Now, if you want, we could go into all sorts of analysis about who the more appropriate peers are, which co. outperformed who and when, like Dell, Accenture, or IBM, all vs. the DOW Jones, but for a one-liner to Oliver to indicate that AAPL, MSFT and the NASDAQ were odd companies and the wrong index to list as a peer group for Fiorina and HPC, mentioning the Ipod was a pretty apt one in responding to a guy who’s far more of a tech geek than he is a stock guy.
That one’s pretty much hot off the presses, fafaroo. Even you had to google it, undoubtedly.
Portfolios’s list, Jerry.
No irony there, huh?
Good get there, bud. Thanks for sharing.
Now there’s a novel name.
Cutting edge you guys are.
Apple came out with the Ipod in 1999. HP tried to piggyback on the Ipod in 2004. That might’ve helped their business if they had been able to pull that off, but nowhere near as as much as the Ipod helped the company who invented it. That stock graph might’ve looked slightly different, but AAPL’s would’ve still been heading northward, and HPC’s still eastward.
tbogg reminds us: How about all you naysayers lay off Cali’s next Senator! It’s not as thought Ms. Fiorina doesn’t have a history of making money for people, even if she didn’t invent the
hand axe lever printing press combustion engine integrated circuitiPod:All she had to do is walk away to finally generate a profit (which would seem, on its face, to be even simpler than inventing the iPod). So when she’s elected, we should short California (and the U.S.), then buy just before she’s tossed out at the earliest opportunity. It’ll be just like Trading Places!
There’s also Bible Spice, the Snowbillie, the Wasilla Grifter,
her family was labeled “The Wasilla Hillbillies” by people in the McCain campaign, and the all-time favorite, Caribou Barbie:
Oh, and PHOTOSHOP!
Wow, Dennis’ attempt to move the goalposts wasn’t predictable at all.
“All she had to do is walk away to finally generate a profit…”–Indeed
—————————–
Only you, Indeed, would equate a one-day jump in the stock price of a company with that company having generated a profit.
I’d say that it looks like everything you know about high finance you learned from watching “Trading Places”, but even that movie had more of a clue than you do.
Bonehead.
Did tbogg remind you that HP’s rise in their stock price that one day meant they generated a profit, Indeed?
Or did you just surmise that one all on your own?
Prodigal, your cluelessness is apparent.
You come in late, butt in, have no idea what you’re talking about, keep digging, and then reduce yourself to some trite phrase out of complete shame and embarrassment at not having anything else for which to explain yourself.
You just Zython’ed yourself.
Fiorina’s departure certainly boosted the value of the stock, and generated a profit for anyone who sold it that day.
Dark Avenger, did your elementary school grammar teachers ever explain to you what quotation marks are and how to use them?
Or do you think they’re supposed to be used to describe text as you think you understand someone else’s true meaning?
Fiorina’s departure certainly boosted the value of the stock, and generated a profit for anyone who sold it that day.
Well sure, I guess that would be an example of “making money for people.” But a larger point stands: it’s not as though any of those profit-making investors invented the iPod.
That would be true if they had bought the day before, DA. Or at a lower price any time before. Most longer-term investors in HPC wouldn’t have had generated any profits at all. Indeed didn’t say that, though, did he? And even on the one in a million chance he might’ve even meant that, do you seriously think he’s whooping it up for the day traders back then?
Not even a nice try.
Shorter Indeed: I think I’ll double down on stupid and maybe they’ll forget my first stupid.
Also.
Actually, DA, scratch that. Indeed said ““All she had to do is walk away to finally generate a profit…”
Bold on the word “finally” is mine. He couldn’t have been talking about day traders or expressing his happiness for anyone who had bought the stock recently enough that having sold it the day of her departure made a profit on it. And all his yammering on this topic means he obviously saw Oliver’s graph of the stock price decline over the duration of her heading the company enough to know that scant few long-term investors in HPC generated a profit on the stock, therefore that excuse of yours for him goes out the window. So he did think a price jump in the stock that one day meant HPC generated a profit. Or, I should say he meant it “finally generated a profit”, whatever that means.
The both of your are clueless. The both of you will keep digging, though.
Upon further reflection, Dennis isn’t guilty of trying to move the goalposts. What he’s actually guilty of is just making whatever excuse for HP’s underperformance under Fiorina proves convenient at the moment.
Because seriously, how is it fair of us to compare a major tech corporation to other major tech corporations. Have we no shame? At long last, have we no shame?
Dennis, you do an invaluable service, teasing away the lays of illogic and falsity to Indeed and my taunts.
Like the raccoon given a sugar cube to eat which he then washes as is its’ habit, you are left with nothing at all but your frantic and futile efforts at “No! You’re a poopyhead without a clue!”.
Such inchoate screeds would be purely amusing if one weren’t sobered by the fact that as other commentators have mentioned, you’re on this site more often than the proprietor.
Get a life outside of here, Dennis, you really have a low self-esteem if you think your intemperate rants here demonstrate you to be a loser when it comes to interacting with others.
It’s no skin off of my nose whether you continue your prolonged hissy fits with Zython, QIAB, farafoo, etc., but I’m sorry you can’t find a more productive use of your time, like volunteering in a homeless shelter, rather than defending your self-image in a battle that you ultimately lose each day despite the lines of dreck posing as thought that you leave here every day.
It’s just a suggestion.
Oh, and PHOTOSHOP!
You actually got through elementary school, Dennis?
Or do you think they’re supposed to be used to describe text as you think you understand someone else’s true meaning?
You’re right, Dennis, the exact quote was:
An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as “Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast,” and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.
So my use of “The Wasilla hillbillies” was incorrect, and I thank you for your attention to detail.
Oh, and PHOTOSHOP!
She even talks with such fun phrases like:
“I’m a pitbull with lipstick!”
“My family is off-limits!”
“What is it the Vice President actually does?”
——————————————-
Where did you get these ‘quotes’, DA?
Seriously, in an effort to post less here I should probably just let Quaker and fafaroo grill you with questions on your ‘quotes’ because I just know they would if I didn’t first. I’m just saving you from their wrath.
Where did you get these ‘quotes’, DA?
Uh, Dennis, did you happen to notice a link I made at the words Caribou Barbie?
Click on that, and you’ll have the answer to your question.
Seriously, in an effort to post less here I should probably just let Quaker and fafaroo grill you with questions on your ‘quotes’ because I just know they would if I didn’t first. I’m just saving you from their wrath.
Unlike you, they probably learned how to click on a link when they were elementary school………
My apologies, DA. I didn’t realize you were quoting a fictitious doll and not Sarah Palin.
Sorry, forgot how upset you get when we talk about your girlfriend who says stupid things.
I didn’t realize you were quoting a fictitious doll and not Sarah Palin.
I’m sorry, Dennis, I didn’t realize how hard it would be for folks like you to tell the difference.
Fiorina’s departure certainly boosted the value of the stock, and generated a profit for anyone who sold it that day.
Indeed, The Dark Avenger, that much is obvious to anyone with half a scintilla of an iota of a brain cell. I would add that even though Ms. Fiorina did not invent the iPod, she did show the shrewd business sense to allow herself to be fired and trigger the stock uptick (finally “making money for people”). I suspect it’s her extensive knowledge of theology and geometry, not to mention a keen understanding of “several tenets of the Laffer Curve”…and the Mendoza Line.
Funny thing, not only did I not say “several tenets of the Laffer curve” as you incorrectly quoted me, misquoting being a common theme of yours, there was no one here posting by the name of “Indeed” when Oliver and I mentioned it. You didn’t change your name, did you, because when I asked you if you did, you completely denied it.
And if you had even a modicum of sense about economics and the stock market, you’d know that the one-day boost in the stock price of HPC in the first day of trading after her departure, you’d know, apparently unlike your hero tbogg, doesn’t mean jack shit. Look at the stock price for the next two months here, and you’ll see the stock trend right back down to where it was, and even lower. So you and tbogg are claiming a lot of people made a lot of money, and neither one of you has the first clue what you’re talking about. The only money she made for people, and you still don’t get it, are the active traders, and I know for a fact you don’t give a rat’s ass for traders.
Keep digging, Indeed. This is fun.
Dennis now: Funny thing, not only did I not say “several tenets of the Laffer curve” as you incorrectly quoted me, misquoting being a common theme of yours,
Dennis then:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/01/23/gop-made-up-cbo-report-on-stimulus-to-try-and-derail-it/#comment-134240
No doubt: Photoshop!
Photoshop!
You liberals will believe anything.
Look at the stock price for the next two months here, and you’ll see the stock trend right back down to where it was, and even lower.
I’m no stock expert but looking at the graph you linked to this what you find:
On Feb 8, 2005, HPs stock price was 20.14.
On April 8, 2005 it was 21.64.
On May 12 it was back down to 20.15.
Then on June 22, 2005 it was 24.50.
On Dec 19, 2005, it was at 28.87.
One year after Fiorina left, on Feb 13, 2006, HP was trading at 34.07.
That’s a pretty steady increase in value over the 12 month period after Fiorina left the company, isn’t it?
Yes it is. tbogg and by extension his lemming lover Indeed might’ve been able to make some kind of a valid point if they mentioned HP’s stock performance for the following year after she left, and that’s if they wanted to go into the new ventures and changes made after Fiorina left, since undoubted some of her decisions would still be effecting the company even a year out. But neither one did, fafaroo. They both made an issue out of the stock price the next day, a one-day spike up of a $1.50 or so, and then made it out to be some huge bonanza for all involved. And just one week later the stock was right back down to where it was. So it was a ridiculous point they both made.
There could be a hundred reasons for a one-day spike in a company’s stock price on the announcement of a CEO departure. tbogg couldn’t name more than one, obviously.
There could be a hundred reasons for a one-day spike in a company’s stock price on the announcement of a CEO departure.
So you’re suggesting that the 6.9 percent increase in HP stock the day her resignation was announced could have been due to some other development that day?
Or are you suggesting that there’s no way tell what investors felt about Fiorina based on the 6.9 percent spike?
The fact is the value of HP stock steadily increased in the 12 months after she left and has not yet returned to the low just before she resigned, not even during the insanity at the end of 2008/early 2009.
So Fiorina’s tenure HP happened at the same time HPs stock crated and it steadily rose after she left.
You really want to defend Fiorina’s stewardship of the company?
From the 2005 article about Fiorina’s departure that Tbogg linked to:
http://money.cnn.com/2005/02/09/technology/hp_fiorina/index.htm
You really want to defend Fiorina’s stewardship of the company?
That all depends. What was your position again?
So you’re suggesting that the 6.9 percent increase in HP stock the day her resignation was announced could have been due to some other development that day?
I didn’t say that. One reason was because the company had been pretty much stuck in the mud from all the shenanigans being played with the board of directors. Speculation on who the next CEO could’ve been another. Having one element of the reason the company was going through so much turmoil out of the way and now being able to move forward could’ve been a big reason too. No matter what all the reasons were, they were all pretty much nullified just one week later. I could’ve just as well picked the day of the next week and said the stock price was lower, therefore investors weren’t happy about her departure.
Or are you suggesting that there’s no way tell what investors felt about Fiorina based on the 6.9 percent spike?
No. The guy reporting that story and tbogg are no more certain of the exact reason as you or I are, though. You could poll every investor that traded stock that day, both buys, sells and shortsells, and asked them what all their reasons were behind their decisions, and then multiply by the number of shares they held. If you want to do all that. be my guest. Or you could just read tbogg’s explanation and be like Indeed and probably everyone else in here now hanging on your every word.
The fact is the value of HP stock steadily increased in the 12 months after she left and has not yet returned to the low just before she resigned, not even during the insanity at the end of 2008/early 2009.
So Fiorina’s tenure HP happened at the same time HPs stock crated and it steadily rose after she left.
You really want to defend Fiorina’s stewardship of the company?
I stated my opinion on her performance already up above. You read every word I ever write on here, I’m sure more than once, and you google every sentence, but if you want to read it the third time again to be sure, here you go:
You and Della both have your own distinct ways of dishonest brokering. This again is yours. You keep asking different questions, you make a related point that is agreeable but not the point I made, and then you make suppositions like “So, what your saying is…… Do you really want to argue that?”
You’re very common, fafaroo. You’re very much a complete bullshitter.
After becoming the first CEO of a Fortune 20 company, no small feat, she did underperform vs her peers. Her peers weren’t AAPL or MSFT, though, and the day of her departure didn’t make a lot of people a lot of money like tbogg and Indeed said, or cause a lot of people to finally make a profit.
I hope that’s not too nuanced of a position for you that someone could agree that she underperformed, but then defend her from some of the completely idiotic things said about her that weren’t at all true.
What is your conclusion here? Do you think Fiorina was the sole reason for the lower P/E multiple? HPQ is currently lagging behind Dell in trailing 12 P/E; should the current CEO step down? Or should he just never seek a political office again? Or more pertinent, Republican office?
You know what’s really hilarious, faf, is that you’re having this argument with a guy that was posting hourly numbers from the Dow back in December of 2008 and claiming that the shaky market was singularly due to Obama’s election.
Could you put that in layman’s terms, Dennis, cuz it sounds like your changing the metric to something else.
Sigh. You’re right. This is just pointless, isn’t it?
Well, I said Fiorina underperformed. And Obama has also underperformed. That won’t matter to you, but somehow the underperformance of the first woman to become a CEO for a Fortune 20 corporation, it does. The fact that she rose to such a lofty position that no woman had achieved before doesn’t matter. Her executive experience doesn’t matter. Obama’s lack of executive was immaterial you said. And his lack of experience being highlighted as he underperforms every day won’t matter one bit.
That is the crux of your argument, fafaroo.
You’re just a partisan hack. And not a very good one.
I didn’t write anything in any more technical terms than the passage you just copied and pasted. Why did you post something you don’t have a clue about?
You guys seem to be doing that a lot lately.
Per tbogg, the bottom line (literally):
Ah, I see P/E = price earnings ratio. Check.
And Dennis, Hps current P/E is 13.18 is it not? And Dell Inc is 16.24, is it not?
The difference, if so, is much less than the difference in 2005, correct?
And yes, Dennis, if that means the current HP CEO is doing a shitty job, that person probably shouldn’t run for office and touting his or her business experience as the CEO of HP as a prime qualification.
Why did you post something you don’t have a clue about?
Dennis, as Mambo pointed out, you’re currently arguing that a one day spike in a company’s stock value could mean anything — despite the specific announcement of the CEO resignation — while previously arguing that hour by hour changes in the entire value of the Dow could be unequivocally laid at the feet of Obama before he was even officially sworn on.
Some of us are fast learners, Dennis, others are simply stuck on stupid.
The bottom line for tbogg is that the only person he can claim to know more about the stock market and economics is you, Indeed.
mambo is lying, fafaroo. Go back and show me hour by hour changes in the DOW in December of 2008, before Obama was sworn in. Don’t just take the word of someone you know to be an idiot and a cowardly liar.
Go back and show me hour by hour changes in the DOW in December of 2008, before Obama was sworn in.
So when you were blaming hour by hour changes in the DOW on Obama in early 2009 that was reasonable?
But in when the value of a company changes the day its CEO resigns, the reason for that change is a complete mystery?
Oh and Dennis, I guess maybe you’re right. Maybe you weren’t calling it “hour by hour” but here you are not even two weeks after the election:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/11/12/could-president-elect-obama-be-more-awesome-than-we-thought/#comment-127167
So it’s possible to blame Obama BEFORE HE WAS EVEN SWORN IN for a two week slump in the market but it’s wild speculation to blame the steady drop in a company’s stock price over several years on the company’s ACTING CEO.
Great.
No matter what all the reasons were, they were all pretty much nullified just one week later. I could’ve just as well picked the day of the next week and said the stock price was lower, therefore investors weren’t happy about her departure.
Yeah, you could have said that but that would clearly indicate that you didn’t bother to even read the 2005 article that Tbogg linked to which included this:
You don’t think that actually reinforces the idea that the primary reason the stock responded positively to the immediate news of her departure and then slumped again on the realization that her policies were still in place?
More dishonesty and hackery from you, fafaroo. First of all, it was a light-hearted post of Oliver’s on Obama’s awesomeness because he likes Spiderman comic books that I responded to. You fail to mention that. You also fail to print my entire post, which was linking to an article in the WSJ.
A Barack Market
A response of mine pointing to an article in which I highlighted a passage that didn’t blame Obama, fafaroo. It pointed out that part of the market decline could be attributed to investor nervousness about his proprosed economic policies, fears that were proven later to not be unfounded. And that was my point all along even into the spring of 2009 when I posted market updates in the precipitous DOW declines, that he was saying things that was adding to an already very nervous investor base, further compounding the problem. You idiots will never understand that- you’ll just keep repeating that I blamed Obama for all of the market decline and then never gave him any credit when the market recovered from lows that were probably lower than they should’ve been.
Quite a bit different than you agreeing with the idiot liar mambo that I posted hourly updates in December 2008 blaming him. And the market at that time had been off 14%, also quite a bit different than the mountain out of a molehill you’re defending of the bigger idiots Indeed and tbogg of a 6% one-day rise in the stock price of HP.
Hack, fafaroo. No wonder you use that word so often. It’s your trademark.
You have to love how it was Dennis himself who requoted the part of the article he originally linked to which stated that Obama bore at least some responsibility for the downturn when it said “But there’s little doubt that uncertainty, and some fear, over Barack Obama’s economic agenda is also contributing to the downdraft” just before Dennis denied that he was trying to blame a downturn that took place before Obama’s inauguration on Obama.
Dennis usually isn’t as efficient in contradicting himself. Maybe Dennis was just sad about his iPod being Photoshopped, d’you think?
Prodigal, once again you display your complete ignorance. I just said that idiots here won’t be able to tell the difference, and what do you know, you show up and prove me correct. Here, maybe this might help a little bit…
fafaroo’s hack description:
My highlighted passage from a post of mine on a thread about Obama’s awesomeness for reading Spiderman comics:
Do those two statements look the same to you?
Rhetorical question, of course they look the same to you. You’re just the type of idiot who would.
Key passage above being “We also don’t want to read too much into short-term market moves.” Does than statement register with you in any way, Prodigal. Do you have a clue as to what that statement might possibly mean? Did you ever have any kind of economic tutelage, even a grade school instructor who occasionally broached the subject from the angle of current events? Even if not, surely you can’t be that dense.
—————-
Dude, you seem to have this huge ax to grind, like you had dirt rubbed in your face and you have this burning desire to somehow even the score. Like John Wooden said “Be quick, but don’t hurry.” You’re running around like a chicken with it’s head cut off. Wait for your right opportunity and maybe some day it will present itself. Sometimes less is more.
Dennis, as usual, denies what he wrote, denies what he meant, denies what he repeated over and over.
You linked to a Wall Street Journal op ed that opened thusly:
What you are now suggesting was just some aside in the article by not highlighting it, is actually, the thesis of the whole piece:
What does the phrase “little doubt” mean to you, Dennis? Above you suggest that there’s all kinds of doubt about how Fiorina’s departure may have impacted a one day spike in HPs stock price. But two weeks after Obama is elected with the entire economy in a tail spin? Well, clearly there’s no doubt Obama is too blame, as well.
The rest of the op ed piece is devoted entirely to Obama’s impact on the markets, or rather, the perceived impact of Obama’s possible policies on the market by Wall Street Journo op ed hacks:
Nothing else in the article at all about “hedge fund deleveraging,” or ” dreadful corporate earnings reports” or “pessimism that the recession will be deeper than many had hoped.” It’s all laid at the feet of Obama.
So please, Dennis. You can fudge, hedge it, deny it all you want: You were attacking Obama for the downturn in the stock market before the guy was even sworn in.
fafaroo- At least you admitted that mambo was an idiot and a liar and that you were being a sloppy hack to just take his word for something that normally you would google the shit out of before you did that.
This is all you need to know about that post, all your hyperventilating and idiotic verbosity aside- It was in response to Oliver gushing about how AWESOME Obama was because he read Spiderman Comic books.
My response? Maybe not so awesome.
Go back on another vacation now. Or better yet, go argue above thread with Ben and Sean D. Hannity on the merits of using Ben&Jerry’s pay model for the public educational system. At least you probably have at least a journeyman’s knowledge of that as opposed to being freakishly clueless about stocks.
It was in response to Oliver gushing about how AWESOME Obama was because he read Spiderman Comic books. My response? Maybe not so awesome.
Yes, Obama was “maybe not so awesome” based on the fears and anxieties of a bunch pissy pantsed investors as described in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece months before Obama was even sworn in as president.
Brilliant.
And Dennis, you were clearly blaming the stock market dive on Obama before he was even sworn in.
There’s really no denying that so why continue?
fafaroo, that’s weird – I didn’t see where you called me a liar and an idiot. Could you point me to that passage? Because I think that our resident troll-king is just making shit up again.
Dennis: mambo is lying, fafaroo. Go back and show me hour by hour changes in the DOW in December of 2008, before Obama was sworn in. Don’t just take the word of someone you know to be an idiot and a cowardly liar.
fafaroo: Oh and Dennis, I guess maybe you’re right. Maybe you weren’t calling it “hour by hour”.
—————
Do you see that, mambo? He said I was right. He agreed that you lied, that you are a liar and that you are an idiot. He admitted that he was a sloppy hack for believing what you wrote was true without checking it out first.
Unless maybe you have hour by hour posts of mine that attest to your claim, aside from the one I made in the Obama is Awesome Because He Reads Spiderman Comics thread that fafaroo the amateur psychic rooted around to find already.
And Dennis, you were clearly blaming the stock market dive on Obama before he was even sworn in.
There’s really no denying that so why continue?
This is so boring for a Friday afternoon, fafaroo. Once again, from the top, very slowly.
Part of the blame for part of the stock market decline goes partly to Obama.
My claim was that Obama couldn’t be as awesome as Spiderman and I wrote in on, you know, the Obama is Awesome blog thread.
Just like part of the very temporary uptick in HP’s stock price was due to Carly Fiorina’s departure that day.
The concept of partial blame, significant blame, 100% blame, all these seem to be giving you trouble. But guessing at what I meant by what I actually said doesn’t give you any trouble at all.
fafaroo, the Amazing Kreskin.
Yes, Dennis. This has gotten boring.
You no longer amuse me.
fafaroo, that’s weird – I didn’t see where you called me a liar and an idiot. Could you point me to that passage?
You said “hour by hour” when it was more like bi-hourly. You big fat liar! That must be a million lies for you on this very blog!
You know the rules here: Everything in comments may be taken literally. Unless they aren’t. Apparently, certain designated trolls have blue sky authority to interpret comments under ultra strict standards of literalness or as though they are entirely meant as a joke. And the same Designated Trolls, evidently, have the power to read minds.
Examples from this very thread:
I mentioned “several tenets of the Laffer Curve.” Designated Troll, for some reason, believes I was referring to him and wrote, “I not say “several tenets of the Laffer curve” as you incorrectly quoted me, misquoting being a common theme of yours.” Then fafaroo tried to nail the Troll by easily finding that phrase in a blog comment by the very same Troll. Now, you may think that faforoo nailed him, but carefully note what transpired. Troll never did say “several tenets of the Laffer Curve. He wrote it. It doesn’t take Rene Magritte to figure that out. At least by the Rules of the Designated Troll.
Troll also writes, “I know for a fact you don’t give a rat’s ass for traders.” without attribution. But Troll doesn’t need no stinking attribution! Troll can read minds! It’s a fact!
I also, apparently, “completely denied” changing my name. I have no recollection of that and looking it up is pointless, because Designated Trolls have the power to selectively alter time and space within the context of these blog comments. Do you get it now, liar mambochicken23?
Now if Designated Troll cries (not literally) “Photoshop!” then it’s a joke, and definitely not meant to be taken at face value.
I hope I’ve cleared this up for you. If you have any questions about the Mendoza Line, please don’t ask me. The only thing I know for absolute 110% certain is that 20% is way below the Mendoza Line. As some baseball person once said, you could look it up!
Schmidt?
Congrats Indeed/mister ed, you’ve actually managed to make fafaroo look almost sane and not like a deranged psycho stalker by comparison.
As to your denial of having changed your name, yes, you most certainly did. When you left for a couple months as mister ed and then came back as Indeed, it was as obvious to me as the day was long because you were the only guy here to go on and on about Rush Limbaugh and Jim Adkisson and the Southern Strategy, all the while obsessing over me….oh, and tenets of the Laffer Curve. I remarked that you, as Indeed, sounded an awful lot like mister ed who used to post here, and you said “Huh?” and denied it. That was until you couldn’t deny it any longer and I called you a sockpuppet.
You’re not only a liar and a fake, you have a really poor memory.