Homeland Security: Arizona Immigration Law Could Stretch Resources
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As usual, Republicans think nothing of actual financesk
Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says Arizona’s new immigration law could siphon federal money and staff needed to go after dangerous immigrants.
Napolitano says Immigration and Customs Enforcement fears it will have to use its stretched resources to deal with those arrested under Arizona’s new law. She testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on Tuesday.
GOP: We only get things done about fake things.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
“BIG SIS SHOULD STOP ARRESTING SO CALLED MILITIA MEMBERS AND START ARRESTING THE INVADING ARMY OF MEXICANS. THEY WON’T STOP UNTIL THEY GET YOUR DAUGHTER PREGNANT AND WATCH LUCHA LIBRE ON YOUR TELEVISION SET. YOU’LL BE SAYING I SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO MATT WHEN YOUR KITCHEN IS OVERFLOWING WITH GOYA PRODUCTS”-Matt Drudge
Please: in the age of Obama, there is no such thing as “stretched resources” at a federal agency.
Dangerous illegal immigrants? Considering 83% of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegals, I think that qualifies.
I’d love to see what the left things we should do about illegal immigration.
Oh wait. We won’t see anything because they never propose anything because proposing anything about illegal immigration is RACIST!
Considering 83% of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegals, I think that qualifies.
Such fucking bullshit. This lie is making its way around the wingnutosphere, with ZERO in the way of any official state data.
Care to provide your sources for this lie? FBI? State of Arizona? Maricopa county?
Yes, Jay, a link to the actual source of this stat would be appreciated.
I guess if Alex Jones says it, it MUST be true.
Maybe you need to tell your Republican reps to start allowing up/down votes on Obama’s appointees then.
Now now Burn, how can you distrust such a reputable website as the Immigration Reform Examiner? (Jay, do you have to be taken to the woodshed AGAIN?)
why aren’t the teabaggers screaming about the government interferring in their lives over this?
If you guys would ignore Jay and his ilk, they’d go away.
t
Let’s suppose that the factoid “83% of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegals” is incorrect.
May I ask what percentage of homicide warrants being issued in Phoenix would be acceptable for people who should not have been here in the first place, and who should have been deported upon discovery?
And a second question for the lefties: Can you name for me any person, or type of person or persons, or class of persons, who you feel it would be legitimate to deport – besides Sarah Palin?
Another question we might ask is how much racially charged hysteria, fueled by purposefully misleading “factoids,” would be acceptable to you in the interest of pushing reactionary and racist policies?
If someone isn’t a citizen and they commit a serious crime they’ll be deported. Happens all the time.
Actually comprehensive reform has been proposed, but when it happens conservatives have a hissy fit.
Define “serious” crime. You do know that for a non-citizen, just being here without a valid visa or green card is in fact, illegal, don’t you?
Please tell us at what point between the crime of being here illegally and committing a “serious” crime that we are allowed to actually arrest and deport someone.
And I know it will be a real challenge to you, Oliver, but let’s see if you can respond without using the word “racist” or its equivalent.
If someone is found to be an illegal they’ll probably be detained and sent back, nobody’s arguing that that isn’t the case beside hysterical cons.
Alternate (but more factual) headline to that story:
“New Arizona immigration law forces federal government to expend resources enforcing existing federal immigration laws”
If someone is found to be an illegal they’ll probably be detained and sent back,
How’s the weather there on Planet Delusional, Oliver?
You really think that’s happening now? If you seriously believe that the existing immigration law is being enforced and illegals are being deported, why do you think that AZ felt the need to pass this law which does nothing more than require AZ law enforcement to enforce existing federal laws?
What wasn’t being addressed before that IS being addressed under this new law?
What exactly do those evil, racist, brown-person hatin’ conservatives get out of this that they aren’t already getting under federal law? Was there a requirement in the new law I missed that allows rightwingerz to kick illegal immigrants in the nuts before they’re deported? Or that they get to drag ‘em around behind their rebel-flag-waving pickup truck?
But hey, if nothing else, at least we have established that you ARE in favor of deporting people who are here in this country illegally.
Which I guess makes you a racist h8er of brown people, doesn’t it?
I live in Tucson and the policy of the local cops and sheriffs office of Pima county is to deport anyone caught in a crime if they cannot prove their legal status. Duh.
They do it every day of the week. You can sit on Congress street near downtown and you’ll see the INS bus with the wire mesh over the windows head south to Nogales.
deport anyone caught in a crime if they cannot prove their legal status.
And being here without “legal status” is in fact a crime. Which you can be deported for and under existing federal immigration law, are supposed to be.
Duh, yourself.
You know, it’s just like those Liberal Fascists to oppose a Common Sense Law like this very reasonable Show Us Your Papers Act.
Dave, I know you’ve spent a lot of time obsessing over the crimes that illegal aliens commit in this country on top of the heinous crime of being here illegally.
I’m curious, however, as to your feelings about the fact that this AZ law will drive otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens further underground as they refuse to seek the help of AZ law enforcement officials or emergency medical care for fear of being deported.
Because that’s what this law will do. People who come here illegally to work will be at even greater risk of being targeted by criminals who will prey on them knowing that their victims will be reluctant to report crimes to the authorities.
Let’s also not forget that these people will be less likely to cooperate with law enforcement in helping to solve crimes committed against others, thus making it harder for AZ police to track down those illegal aliens who are, in fact, committing serious crimes in the state.
If your concern, then, is secondary crimes committed by illegal aliens, this law will actually exacerbate that problem by creating a large group of ready victims with no recourse to protection while making it harder to actually solve those crimes illegal aliens commit.
On top of that, you’re also going to see a lot of law abiding, American citizens getting stopped and interrogated by AZ cops for no other reason than because the color of their skin makes them “suspects” for being illegal.
What good do you think this law is actually going to accomplish?
Yes, it’s a crime to be here illegally. The laws are not being enforced and the border is literally wide fuckin open down in some parts of Santa Cruz country, and on the Tohono O Odham reservation, south of here.
But in a state with 30%+ population that is Hispanic, what are you going to do? Go house by house and demand to see everyone’s papers? Send out cops to stand on street corners to profile anyone with brown skin to ask them to see their papers?
Good luck with that.
I’m also curious about the source for this one:
Dangerous illegal immigrants? Considering 83% of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegals, I think that qualifies.
Googling this leads to a large number of links, all of which seem to point to this blog. Which, itself, is simply a link to this blog.
On this page, we’re presented with the following “facts”:
-95 percent of homicide warrants in Los Angeles are issued for illegal aliens. Additionally, 67 percent of the 17,000 outstanding fugitive felony warrants in that city are issued for illegal aliens.
-83 percent of homicide warrants in Phoenix are issued for illegal aliens.
-86 percent of homicide warrants issued in Albuquerque, New Mexico are issued for illegal aliens.
-In Operation Predator, ICE arrested and deported 6,085 illegal alien pedophiles. There have been many studies which suggest that each pedophile molests and average of 148 children over their lifetime. Considering that estimate, the deportees alone could have accounted for 900,580 victims.
-29 percent of the U.S. prison population is comprised of illegal aliens, at an annual cost to the American taxpayers of more than $1.6 billion.
And, a grand total of 0 sources.
Now, just looking at the final item on that list, let’s compare to the info at this link, which takes Lou Dobbs to task (and manages to cite things like, I dunno, the DOJ) for peddling the same “factoid”.
For starters:
Here are the facts, according to the Department of Justice:
In 2000, 27 percent of the inmates in federal prisons were noncitizens. Some of these noncitizens were illegal immigrants, and some were in this country legally. In 2001, this percentage dropped to 24 percent, and it continued dropping over the next four years, falling to 20 percent in 2005.
So, obviously our linked linked sourceless link may be using some creative tricks- I mean, illusions, to skew the stats favorably for their cause. Hence, the sneaky shift from “noncitizen” to “illegal”. Bet he stops there, right?
The share of state prison inmates who are noncitizens is much lower. (This is largely because immigration violations themselves are federal crimes.) In 2000, 4.6 percent of inmates in state prisons were noncitizens. This number remained quite steady over the next five years, right around 4.6 percent.
Over all — combining federal and state prisons — 6.4 percent of the nation’s prisoners were noncitizens in 2005. This is down from 6.8 percent in 2000.
Note, in his “fact”, he made no distinction between federal and state prison. I suppose you could argue that he assumed that people would just figure that out, since, as stated above, immigration violations are federal crimes. But given his already shifty track record, and his reluctance to source any of this data, I’m not super inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Look, I’m not here to lionize people who are in this nation illegally. They’re certainly not all fine upstanding citizens. And I certainly could be wrong about these stats; but again, the fact that there aren’t any sources makes me think there’s some tricky accounting going on.
But an inflated reactionary, alarmist attitude certainly doesn’t help things- or is that only bad when you accuse Oliver of this?
I’m curious, however, as to your feelings about the fact that this AZ law will drive otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens further underground as they refuse to seek the help of AZ law enforcement officials or emergency medical care for fear of being deported.
Every Friday night there are lots of robberies because the illegals get paid in cash at those ripoff check cashing joints, so they are carrying a few hundred bucks with them and are easy targets from locals because they know the victims won’t cooperate with police if they get jacked.
But your points are spot on. The real danger now is that the local Hispanic community that are citizens won’t talk to cops either because they think the cops are going to automatically profile them.
I cannot believe I heard Andrew Napolitano say this, the Fox News legal analyst, and I agreed with him word for word…
Napolitano: Ah, Hispanics — who have a natural home in the Republican Party because they are socially conservative — will flee in droves. She’s (Gov Jan Brewer) also gonna bankrupt her state, because no insurance company will provide coverage for this. And for all the lawsuits that will happen — for all the people that are wrongfully stopped — her budget will be paying for it. Her budget will be paying the legal bills of the lawyers who sue on behalf of those that were stopped.
This will be a disaster for Arizona — to say nothing of the fact that it’s so unconstitutional that I predict a federal judge will prevent Arizona from enforcing it as soon as they attempt to do so. That will probably be tomorrow.
Dave, I know you’ve spent a lot of time obsessing over the crimes that illegal aliens commit in this country on top of the heinous crime of being here illegally.
Not really. And don’t consider it “heinous”, but it is in fact a crime.
People who come here illegally to work will be at even greater risk of being targeted by criminals who will prey on them knowing that their victims will be reluctant to report crimes to the authorities.
As opposed to the businesses who prey on illegals today, because they can pay below market wages and know their illegal workers will be reluctant to report labor law violations to the authorities?
Why do you support the exploitation of low-income workers, fafaroo?
And if the existing laws were enforced (especially on businesses that hire them), wouldn’t there be far fewer illegal workers here to be victimized in the first place? Which pretty much eliminates or minimizes the rest of your arguments.
Look, if you want to make the argument that illegal immigrants are just poor people who are coming here to try to support their family and take advantage of opportunities that don’t exist in their own country, then hey, I’m right there with you… so let’s have a discussion about expanding and streamlining the legal immigration and guest worker processes. That way, the ones who just want to come here and work for a while (while sending money home) before retuning to their own country can do it legally, and if some like it here and want to become citizens, they have a streamlined process to do it.
Or you can keep banging the “if you’re against illegal immigration you hate brown people” drum and we’ll get nowhere. No doubt you’ll feel better about yourself, but we still haven’t addressed the problem.
On top of that, you’re also going to see a lot of law abiding, American citizens getting stopped and interrogated by AZ cops for no other reason than because the color of their skin makes them “suspects” for being illegal.
Which is why I expect AZ will likely be extremely careful in how they actually implement this law (note the Gov’s executive order to require LE personnel to be trained in how to NOT engage in racial profiling or discrimination).
Enforce existing immigration laws, focusing on businesses who employ illegals.
Employment of illegal workers falls off to almost nothing.
Businesses forced to hire American workers at market wages.
Unemployment rate starts to fall.
With no work, illegal workers self-deport and go home.
Problem 95% solved.
Link please.
Employment of illegal workers falls off to almost nothing.
And what happens to the employment prospects of people who are citizens or in the country legally who just happen to look the wrong way?
Enforce existing immigration laws, focusing on businesses who employ illegals.
Well, right there I can tell you, this ain’t gonna happen. Businesses, most of them at least, are amoral scumbags who do anything to help cut costs and boost profits, whether their actions illegal or not. You really think business give a shit about following the law?
Why hire an American that you have to pay taxes for when you can hire someone who will do the job faster and better and you can pay them less?
I’ve seen it first hand. You want concrete poured, your house rewired and bricks laid? I’ll find you a crew that can do it all in 10 hours and they don’t even ask to take a bathroom break! Seriously.
And these business people have powerful lawyers and friends and lobbyists in Phoenix. I’d wager just about all business from Raytheon to state universities to small businesses, in one capacity or another, employ undocumented workers. Construction? Forget it. Show me a house being built in AZ, and I’ll show you an entire labor crew that is undocumented. Child care, service industry, anything except government work will have someone illegal working.
I know lawmakers get off on trying to sound tough by repeating the same thing over and over about ‘we need to go after the businesses that employ illegals’, but the reality is the state economy would fucking collapse if it wasn’t for that undocumented labor force.
Businesses forced to hire American workers at market wages.
Which would cause price spikes that would make your head spin. Businesses would fold and go home if they had to rely solely on legal workers. Having to replace workers that you paid $8/hr to $15/hr and now you have to insure, offer benefits, pay taxes, pay Social Security? Please. Are you that naive?
As opposed to the businesses who prey on illegals today, because they can pay below market wages and know their illegal workers will be reluctant to report labor law violations to the authorities?
There is actually a distinction that needs to be made between employers that look the other way at a fake social security card and higher illegal immigrants for the prevailing minimum wage or higher and sweatshop employers who are looking to exploit people by paying them below the minimum wage without workplace health and safety laws.
At the same time, illegal immigrants, once they’re hired, are still entitled to many federal and state legal protections as employees, regardless of their citizenship status:
http://www.nossaman.com/showarticle.aspx?show=968
The AZ law would actually discourage illegal immigrants from seeking protections under the Federal law that they are LEGALLY ENTITLED TO for fear of being deported by AZ law enforcement officers.
So once again, the law will actually be increasing the likelihood and opportunity for employers and others to exploit illegal aliens.
Dave, I would love to have a discussion about work permit programs, amnesty and the like. But that seems impossible as long as Conservatives are dead set on first further criminalizing a huge class people and driving them deeper underground and beyond the protection of the law.
Ok, let me ask the the conservative here (Frank, Jay, Dave, etc.) a simple question. Why do you think having an anti-immigration law enforced by Joe Arpaio is in any way, shape, or form a good idea? I mean, really?
Any Law that allows the Police to “check and see” if someone is an illegal immigrant, stinks on ice. But then , I don’t trust the police.
If that’s actually the core of that law, it’s a goner.
will drive otherwise law-abiding illegal aliens
Exactly how is one who is breaking the law, law-abiding?
Fair enough. I should have dug a little deeper (though those bleating like stuck pigs calling it a LIE don’t know either) to determine if the stat is accurate.
On top of that, you’re also going to see a lot of law abiding, American citizens getting stopped and interrogated by AZ cops for no other reason than because the color of their skin makes them “suspects” for being illegal.
This is such nonsense and it’s been highlighted by so many people. It’s fear-mongering. Nothing more. The text of the bill says the following:
This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens
People are not going to be allowed to just be plucked from a store or their car and asked to produce proof of citizenship just because the cops want to.
I was gonna mock Jay for having no credibility, but credit where it’s due: he admitted a mistake, which is rare for Righties in these parts. But the mewling parenthetical is 100% horseshit. The 83% stat is fucking lie. You know, like “Al Gore said he invented the Internet,” “We know for a fact that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction,” and “George Allen Jr.’s ‘macaca’ slur is so not racist.” So half credit (50%).
Otherwise, Jay, otherwise. As in people who obey the law other than being here illegally.
People are not going to be allowed to just be plucked from a store or their car and asked to produce proof of citizenship just because the cops want to.
Well that’s a relief.
Holy crap, Jay. Did you just accuse someone of fear mongering?
I’m sure if I went to all the right wing sites, including StormFront, still pushing the totally non-fear mongering “factoid” about the 83 percent of homicide warrants in Phoenix, that you mindlessly cut and pasted here, we’ll see you right there in the comments section scolding them for their “fear mongering.” You’re a complete douche, Jay. But not because of that. But because of that. because of this:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/scarce/az-truck-driver-forced-show-birth-certifica
Yup. This is not a sign of things to come.
Jay, you’re completely incensed over the issue of no knock warrants, going even so far as to argue that we can’t trust “rogue cops” with such sweeping power, but here, you quote the language of the bill and say, “We can trust the police to enforce this law according to the strict Constitutional care written into the bill.”
What a fucking hypocrite.
Jay, you’re completely incensed over the issue of no knock warrants, going even so far as to argue that we can’t trust “rogue cops” with such sweeping power, but here, you quote the language of the bill and say, “We can trust the police to enforce this law according to the strict Constitutional care written into the bill.”
No you stupid jackass. Once again, you start fantasizing in your own tiny little mind what the motives of people are. Do you get some kind pleasure out of doing that? It’s a condition and you need to cure it.
What the bill says is that there is an obvious REMEDY for civil rights violations (And please don’t start blubbering about civil rights violations. If our legal system was perfect there would be no such thing as civil rights violations. It happens. It sucks, but it does.) Clearly, in the case that you provided (I’m not sure what authority in AZ controls weigh stations. In FL it is the FL DOT), the man produced a commercial drivers license and that should have been sufficient. In my view, the man can file a very large lawsuit against the agency that first detained him and he’d probably win big. The official involved should be disciplined for his actions up to and maybe including his termination.
That’s how the system works.
The real problem here is that a state law such as this would not even be necessary if the federal government would do their freaking job. But they can’t and when a state says, “Well, we can’t sit around and wait for you anymore” and does something on their own, THAT the feds are quick to respond to. Unreal.
I’m actually somebody that favors an open border policy. It would do wonders to reduce the ridiculous bureaucratic mess people have to wade through in order to live here. But until that changes, people should live by the laws we have in place.
You know, as in otherwise law-abiding burglars. Or otherwise law-abiding check-forgers. Or otherwise law-abiding identity thieves. And so on.
Businesses, most of them at least, are amoral scumbags who do anything to help cut costs and boost profits, whether their actions illegal or not. You really think business give a shit about following the law?
And that, in a nutshell, is the Democratic party/liberal philosophy on business in America: Businesses? Lying, cheating, scumbags, the lot of them.
Businesses would fold and go home if they had to rely solely on legal workers. Having to replace workers that you paid $8/hr to $15/hr and now you have to insure, offer benefits, pay taxes, pay Social Security? Please. Are you that naive?
What do you care? If businesses are scumbags, why do you care if they fail? Don’t you want to hold them accountable? What are you, some kind of evil conservative or something?
the reality is the state economy would fucking collapse if it wasn’t for that undocumented labor force.
And I see that you’re content to keep the status quo, with low salaries and often poor working conditions for that undocumented labor force.
Why do you hate brown people so much, burn?
I’ve seen it first hand. You want concrete poured, your house rewired and bricks laid? I’ll find you a crew that can do it all in 10 hours and they don’t even ask to take a bathroom break! Seriously.
And when you find out later that that crack crew of undocumented workers screwed up the job, what do you do? Go back down to the Home Depot parking lot and see if the same guys are still hanging around? Hire another crew to fix the mistakes of the first crew?
Why do you think having an anti-immigration law enforced by Joe Arpaio is in any way, shape, or form a good idea?
First of all, I am not “anti-immigration”. I am anti-illegal immigration. I know you understand the difference but are obligated to try anyways.
Second of all, rather than any of us tell you why I think Sheriff Arpaio enforcing the law is a good idea, maybe you can tell us why him enforcing it is a bad one. After all, the DOJ has been investigating him and his department for well over a year now and I haven’t seen any indictments issued. If he was such a blatant h8er of brown people, violating their civil rights left and right and racially profiling until the cows come home, I would have expected to see SOMETHING come out of the investigation.
Link please.
Link to what? I’m responding to burn’s question of “what to do?” with my suggestion.
Link to what?
To anything that might prove you aren’t living in a complete fantasy land where “enforcing existing immigration law” will lead to any of this:
Well, just for being a gentleman I did some digging for you. Using the ‘Phoenix 83′ fact I tracked down, among others, a freeper post sourcing a whole mess of similar statistics to an official… sounding… document known as the ’2006 (lst Qtr) INS/FBI Statistical Report’, which doesn’t… uh… seem to exist.
Go ahead and Google it- you’ll have to wade through a metric shit ton of conservative blogs quoting and gloating about it, and mentioning the doc, but not a single one has a link- except a few pointing to alink on kerrywilliamslive.com, which has also disappeared.
*shrug*….Seems kind of similar to this.
Again, I’m certainly not trying to offer up some blanket defense against illegal aliens (yay, these facts look a bit suspicious so that means they’re all super duper people!), but if we’re going to have a rational debate on this we can certainly ask both sides of the fence to pull the “Well, they’re not actual facts… but they should be!” lists our of their arsenals.
Well that was the shackling story that you got a kick out of. Let’s see…
this
this
this
Or hell, just google him, you can’t take two steps without finding some constitutional violation on his part.
This bill gives him more power, when he deserves none.
[...] the party losing large blocks of voters on several different issues. Recently, the decision by the State of Arizona to treat all Mexican and Latin people as potential criminals has crippled the Republican National Committee with the Mexican community, [...]
So it’s fantasy land to think that if existing laws which prohibit companies from employing illegals are enforced, companies will be less likely to retain or hire illegals?
It’s fantasy land to think that if there are fewer jobs available, many illegals will just go back home?
It’s fantasy land to think that if businesses let their illegal workers go, they will either have to hire American workers who will demand market wages or close down?
It’s fantasy land to think that if more American workers are hired, unemployment will go down?
If I’m living in fantasy land, you’re living on Planet Full-On Batshit-Crazy Denial. As I have long suspected.
As I recall, you were the one stroking yourself over that story, Zython, not me.
So you’ve got nothing? Gotcha.
Dave, please provide a link to a study or a program that proves tougher enforcement is effective, or STFU.
Yup, Dave. People sneaking across the border to work are just like common criminals. Nice. I’m sorry but you people are just assholes. Plain and simple.
Dave, please provide a link to a study or a program that proves tougher enforcement is effective, or STFU.
Seems to have the intended effect
Didn’t think a “study or a program” was needed when common sense should suffice. But then I forgot who I was dealing with.
Would you like me to find a study or program that proves that if I drop a rock, it will fall to the ground and not fly off into space instead?
What part of “being in this country without a valid visa or green card = breaking the law” do you not comprehend?
The core concept, it appears.
And how about the fact that unless they are planning on hanging around Home Depot to get work as a day laborer, most businesses will require them to provide a SS number. If they do provide one (someone else’s, likely a total stranger), they have just committed identity theft. That’s also a crime, in case you can’t figure it out.
And let’s not forget that your insistence that we just leave them alone means the status quo, and that they continue to work for below market wages and often poor working conditions with little or no recourse. Which you support. Asshole.