Senior Vatican Priest Compares Scrutiny Over Abuse Scandal To Jewish Persecution
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Just when you thought the church couldn’t go too far or debase itself further.
A senior Vatican priest speaking at a Good Friday service compared the uproar over sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church — which have included reports about Pope Benedict XVI’s oversight role in two cases — to the persecution of the Jews, sharply raising the volume in the Vatican’s counterattack.
The remarks, on the day Christians mark the crucifixion, underscored how much the Catholic Church has felt under attack from recent news reports and criticism over how it has handled charges of child molestation against priests in the past, and sought to focus attention on the church as the central victim.
Even worse when you consider what the church did during the holocaust.
Pope Pius XII’s (1876-1958) actions during the Holocaust remain controversial. For much of the war, he maintained a public front of indifference and remained silent while German atrocities were committed. He refused pleas for help on the grounds of neutrality, while making statements condemning injustices in general. Privately, he sheltered a small number of Jews and spoke to a few select officials, encouraging them to help the Jews.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
“The libruhl mediuh made the priests molest the boys”-Catholic Church
And this is any different than loons comparing ObamaCare to the Civil Rights movement how again?
Well first off, the Democratic party hasn’t systematically hidden and protected child rapists for 40+ years.
For one.
try again mrgg. that made no sense at all. the worst look over there ever!
Worst. Church. Ever.
If a organization doesn’t care about the methodical and continuous abuse and molestation of little children, why would we think those same grown men (and I use that term with great reluctance) would care about offending a few jews?
Sickos.
The catholic church is an expert in identifying persecution because it’s carried out enough of it to know, especially to the Jews and a bunch of other people.
See, Oliver… You almost had me on your side. Just for a moment , I was willing to believe that you weren’t driven by an anti – Catholic bias , and then you pull out the Pope Pius XII Holocaust BS
I was going to say that this is an interesting link and real food for thought.
But you have finally shown your true colors.
And you tried to say that I was barking up the wrong tree, when I had you pegged all along.
And it’s most likely true of the rest of you, as I suspected. Scratch a liberal, you find a racist / bigot.
I’ll bite—and take a (minor) role as apologist….
remember that these are crimes of the Institution, as well as by Individuals… In this, please try to avoid tarring *all* priests for the crimes of a relative few.
The vast majority of the Clergy (and all I’ve ever known through my childhood) were upright men, if in a few cases somewhat eccentric.
I’ll happily sling mud at the Church *as an Institution*….there’s a BIG wall at which to sling that mud, and a LOT of mud to sling. When it comes to the members of the Church, I’ll be a little more selective, and call for Lay prosecution of those offenders only, and those who hide then, again, Only. I would hope that those Priests that are out there can continue to do the good works they’ve done all their lives, but begin to gain a new understanding of the Church and its role(s) in Secular society.
Unlike the Middle Ages, the Church no longer enjoys a privileged position, allowing ti to get away, literally with murder, because its members acted as Intermediaries with the Almighty. With this in mind, these Priests should then relearn how to act as responsible Citizens, wherever they live, and adhere to the relevant Laws that exist to protect them and other Citizens. The Pope, of *ALL* people, should be the one with this most clearly in mind, given his past involvement in Nazi Germany and its Wermacht (if not politically, then passively as a witness to the horrors). That he seems more interested in protecting the institution and the Criminals it houses shows me that he’s lost touch with Secular society, and should be removed and placed in senior care, with a more dynamic and responsible Pope selected to replace him.
After all, the Pope is literally the Father of the Faithful, and their High Intermediary—he needs to act the role, with the appropriate dignity and responsibility…
In April 1939, after the submission of Charles Maurras and the intervention of the Carmel of Lisieux, Pius XII ended his predecessor’s ban on Action Française, an organization described by some authors as virulently antisemitic and anti-Communist.[119][120]
In 1941, Cardinal Theodor Innitzer of Vienna informed Pius of Jewish deportations in Vienna.[150] Later that year, when asked by French Marshal Philippe Pétain if the Vatican objected to antisemitic laws, Pius responded that the church condemned antisemitism, but would not comment on specific rules.[150] Similarly, when Philippe Pétain’s puppet government adopted the “Jewish statutes,” the Vichy ambassador to the Vatican, Léon Bérard (a French politician), was told that the legislation did not conflict with Catholic teachings.[151] Valerio Valeri, the nuncio to France was “embarrassed” when he learned of this publicly from Pétain[152] and personally checked the information with Cardinal Secretary of State Maglione[153] who confirmed the Vatican’s position.[154] Yet in June 1942 Pius personally protested against the mass deportations of Jews from France, ordering the papal nuncio to protest to Pétain against “the inhuman arrests and deportations of Jews”.[155] In September 1941 Pius objected to a Slovakian Jewish Code,[156] which, unlike the earlier Vichy codes, prohibited intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews.[157] In October 1941 Harold Tittman, a U.S. delegate to the Vatican, asked the pope to condemn the atrocities against Jews; Pius replied that the Vatican wished to remain “neutral,”[158] reiterating the neutrality policy which Pius invoked as early as September 1940.[151]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_pius_xii
Guess which country, under whose leadership, did this?
On the other hand , guess which Pope and future Pope made this possible?:
Amen, Oliver! And amen again.
I admit it. I am totally bigoted against people that rape kids and institutions and others that help them. Guilty as charged.
Do you think the church could have come out, publicly, and condemned the ethnic cleansing? Their actions were clearly laudable, but it would have helped to have the Catholic Church condemn Hitler, no?
Frank, nobody believes that you were “almost willing” to believe anything positive about OWillis, gimme a ***** break.
That said, if you want to find out the real nastiness of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust, you don’t look at Pius XII’s handling of Hitler as much as the Vatican’s support of the Ustase in Croatia. Pius XII was no profile in courage but people may overestimate what he really could have done. On the other hand, what the Catholic Church committed and tolerated against Serbs and Balkan Jews is unspeakable.
The Ustase – an explicitly pro-Nazi, chest-thumpingly Catholic, explicitly theo-fascist Croatian terrorist group, were so obscenely brutal in their extermination efforts against Jews in the Balkans that the German High Command actually stepped in to tame their “excesses.” Look them up, read the history. It will make you judge subsequent genocides in the Balkans in later decades with a broader perspective. And it may make you puke the next time you pass a Catholic Church if this persistent, seemingly world-wide pedo-career-protection business doesn’t.
Makes me so proud to be atheist. I have never heard of a molestation taking place under the cover of an atheist teaching people to be skeptical of authority.
The structure of the church is set up to allow abuse with no repercussions, which may be somewhat short of encouraging it, but does not in any sense discourage it. The insistence that certain people have ultimate, unquestioned moral authority over others offers a tempting corruption of power. The congregation must confess their sins to the priest, allowing him to identify future victims. Since the priest isn’t allowed to publicly express physical love, this is as good a means of creating and collecting potential abuse victims for abusers as any ever designed. Scientology and Latter Day Saints are pikers by comparison.
The nature of the celibate clergy, both male and female, is that these people labor all their lives out of love and devotion for less than minimum wage, and leave no offspring to inherit their estates, so the product of their life’s labors is all collected by the church. Who ever thought that anyone could sell the idea of voluntary slavery and no sex?
Brilliant.
Once someone has accepted the tortured theology and ridiculous ritual it takes to be a Catholic, I can see why it isn’t much more of an effort to talk the supplicant into anything desired by his or her moral master. They will believe anything you tell them.
A potential child abuser who was raised Catholic would know that he could find any number of victims if he were granted the power of the priesthood, so why wouldn’t the job attract that type? If the structure wasn’t specifically intended to promoted sexual abuse, apparently it was just a lucky accident for the cleric abusers, who must feel like Donald Duck’s Uncle Scrooge rolling around in his three cubic acres of money.
These attempts to answer historical questions without data are meaningless. If you had read the link I posted it clearly stated what the Pope’s thinking was on this.
I don’t know why, or even if, Cardinal Valenci was embarrassed.
Bruce, speak for your self , and I will speak for myself. On the basis of Peggy Noonan’s article , I was willing to accept Oliver’s outrage as valid, if overwrought.
But dragging that historically revisionist crap about Pope Pius XII collaborating with the Nazis was the last straw.
Whether you believe that or not, does not concern me.
Bruce , I went and looked up the Ustase and , as I suspected , they were tied into the Archbishop Stepinac story. The source I used said that, for the most part , the Church’s role in this was “in dispute” (quelle surprise!), and also named a few archbishops as guilty, but indicated that Archbishop Stepinac’s role in this was questionable.
Of course , you have changed the subject because it suits you, but it accomplishes nothing. You want me to look up something , why don’t you look up all the hospitals and schools built and run by the Catholic Church; look up all the families fed, alcoholics, and other kinds of addicts straightened out. Look up the marriages saved , the teenagers diverted from lives of crime. When you have looked at all the good work the Catholic Church has done for the last 2000 years, and weigh that against these current accusations, then you can tell me how horrible the Church is.
As I said, I speak for myself, who do you speak for?
Frank, the second link you posted is to an article at the Institute for Historical Review. Does anyone know why that name sounds familiar to me?
Also, Frank, I at least am not claiming that the Church has done _no good whatsoever_ in its history. That is not the point.
Again, THAT IS NOT THE POINT.
No number of orphans fed or elderly people cared for negates what the Church has done to the children abused by priests. Do you see this?
It might have helped, but I won’t condemn Pope Pius. I will freely admit that I have no idea how much courage I would have in such a situation. Probably not a lot. You have pointed out that the US did not enter the war to save Jews. If the US, with all the resources at our disposal did not enter the war to save Jews, should Pius have? Of course, Christianity calls people to moral courage. He didn’t make himself a martyr, but he acted very much within the boundaries of normal human behavior.
Nice guys you quote from, Frank:
It’s an somewhat ironic comparison to make, since Catholicism and Christianity in general is anti-Semitic in their theological implications (i.e., if only Christians get to go to heaven, as the New Testament states, then, by definition, all Jews are hell-bound).
The Catholic Church, under the pontificate of Pius XII, was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000 Jews
I have seen this figure put up for years in defense of Pius XII. I have no way of knowing whether it is true or not. Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Pius XII and the Church did save 860,000 Jews. What still troubles me (and troubled my late father who was baptized a Catholic and was an adult during World War II) is that Pius XII and the Church never specifically denounced and spoke out against the efforts of the Nazis and their allies to exterminate every Jew in the world. They only succeeded in killing a third of the world’s Jews and the 860,000 that Pius XII and the Church allegedly saved were assuredly blessed given the carnage that did occur but the failure to speak out cannot be excused or passed over lightly.
was the last straw
How many last straws has that been for the last 4-5 years?
I’m asking you to do something simple: condemn the church’s actions with regard to the repeated hiding and covering up of pedophile priests. I don’t ask u to condemn the church overall or your faith, just concede that they’ve done wrong.
It’s called “selective outrage”, something OW has proven to be an expert on.
So Oliver should be outraged disabled children will now get insurance and not be denied it because of preexisting conditions? But he shouldn’t be outraged that Catholic church officials covered up the rapes of children?
Oh–I get it. Thanks Grey.
OPEN LETTER TO REV. CANTALAMESSA
Rev. Cantalamessa, you really messed up today. I know you didn’t mean to insult anyone when you compared the current attacks on the Catholic Church and Pope Benedict with the persecution of the Jews, but you did, and you did it big time. It seems that you are ignoring a few important points: first of all, there is no comparison because the Church persecuted the Jews for no other reason than their Jewishness, which the Church found intolerable, while the current attacks on the Church and the Pope—I wouldn’t quite call it “persecution”—are well deserved as the Church seems to have an endemic child abuse problem compounded with on obstruction of justice problem. This is not the first time this happens. It’s best to not even talk about the Middle Ages. Hopefully the Pope will make use of his power and swiftly remove any offenders from the Church and hand them over to the civil authorities for prosecution, as would be the case with any child molester. The attacks on the Pope are well deserved too. He was responsible for some of these cases before he became pope and he not only did not punish these priests, he moved them to other places where they were able to molest children again! So, it’s hard to feel sorry for the Church or the Pope these days. You also seem to have forgotten that of the 365 days of the year, this is the least appropriate day to make such comparison with the persecution of the Jews. Should I remind you of the forced conversion of the Jews, instituted by the Church centuries ago? Should I remind you of the incitement to violence in the faithful every Good Friday after sermons and Passion Plays? Should I remind you of the accusation of deicide which prompted countless acts of Christian violence toward Jews? Or the Good Friday prayer which asked God to lift the veil of the blind, perfidious Jews?
It makes me wonder about your boss, Pope Benedict, too, because one needs to ask oneself the uncomfortable question of why he didn’t stand up as you were making this innapropriate comparison and distance himself and the Church from your comments. But then, maybe one should not be so surprised about this given his recent track record regarding the sexual predator priests, or his treatment of the whole Bishop Williamson affair, or his reinstating the Good Friday prayer referenced above, or his rush canonization process for the problematic wartime Pope Pius XII. In a way, seeing Pope Benedict looking at the floor today as you uttered those words reminded me of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who also stood silently by the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad in 2001 as Assad let loose an antisemitic rant that was broadcast in the entire Christian world. Assad, like the Catholic Church before him, presented Jews as enemies of God. Also like Christians before him, Assad used the Christian blood libel of Jews as Christ-killers. Pope John Paul II did not see fit to stop him right then and there and thus appeared to implicitly accept Assad’s vitriolic statements.
Perhaps this issue of silent popes is also endemic in the Church. After all, Pope Pius XI and his successor Pope Pius XII both stood by silently as the Nazis slowly and inexorably dehumanized, demonized, and exterminated millions of Jews during the Second World War.
To wrap it up, Rev. Cantalamessa, as the sole and direct preacher to the pope I think you yourself need some advising. I would encourage you to think about these things, and next time you sit with Pope Benedict advise him better.
Gabriel Wilensky
—————————————————————————————————
Author
Six Million Crucifixions:
How Christian Teachings About Jews Paved the Road to the Holocaust
http://www.SixMillionCrucifixions.com
Follow me on Twitter at http://twitter.com/sixmillionbook
Become a Fan on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/SixMillionCrucifixions
—————————————————————————————————
The holocaust is just the exclamation point at the end of a long tale of persecution of Jews by Catholics.
It is too easy to throw the words “Hitler” and “Holocaust” out there. The so-called “nazi-bomb”. But in reality, nothing that has happened since then, no matter how distasteful, no matter how severe, can even compare.
To compare criticism of the roman catholic church and Pope Benedikt XVI to the slaughter of 6 million jews and 5 million non-jews from around 1941-1946 (yes, I wrote 1946, there were still pogroms in Poland as late as 1946) is just nuts.
Finally having the start of a decent health care system is not a holocaust.
Rescuing the economy before the entire world jumps off the cliff is not a holocaust.
Forcing corporations who defaulted and got a huge handout to actually pay their debt back is not a holocaust.
911 was not a holocaust. It was a terrible, horrible, evil thing, but it was not a holocaust.
Only a holocaust survivor can give us a partial picture of what it is like, and we can only the horror out of his eyes.
So, if some numnut starts to drop the “nazi-bomb”, let him know how utterly stupid he is.
That’s just like THEM! People need to wake up and don’t fall for the oakie doakie. This ain’t nothing NEW! What is new is that a STOP needs to come to this.
Well Frank, since you brought up the “last 20000 years,” here’s how horrible the catholic church has been. Don’t worry, it’s a quick read.
http://medievalhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/religious_antisemitism
OK, if those Catholics would just stop comparing abortion to the Holocaust, I for one would stop disparaging Pius XII’s silence.
Bitter Scribe : Hold your breath and wait for that to happen. (BTW, I’m pretty sure you’re the only one cares about your criticism of Pope Pius XII).
a) Pius XII was not silent, or inactive
b) Anyone have a clue as to what the mainstream Protestant denominations were doing between 1933 and 1945?
c) If the pogroms continued into 1946 , they were authorized by the Russian communist occupiers.
So, if some numnut starts to drop the “nazi-bomb”, let him know how utterly stupid he is.
Surely you don’t include the topic of this thread (hectoring us about Pope Pius XII’s purported inaction) , as dropping the n-bomb, do you?
Pius XII was not silent, or inactive
Again:
In October 1941 Harold Tittman, a U.S. delegate to the Vatican, asked the pope to condemn the atrocities against Jews; Pius replied that the Vatican wished to remain “neutral,”[158] reiterating the neutrality policy which Pius invoked as early as September 1940.[151]
b) Anyone have a clue as to what the mainstream Protestant denominations were doing between 1933 and 1945?
Did you ever hear of Pastor Niemoller?:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niemoller
The Dark Avenger , if I had written “except for Pastor Niemoller”, I suppose you would have had nothing to say. Pastor Niemoller was one protestant minister. Do you have any idea how many Catholics and Catholic priests ended up in concentration camps – about six million.
Catholics hid Jews – have you ever heard of Anne Frank?; the Catholic Church provided Jewish people with nearly a million falsified Baptismal certificates. Anyone else from the mainstream Protestant denominations , or is that it?
Again: Did Pius XII Remain Silent?
It is remarkable how liberals lack, in fact, often scorn, a historical perspective: The corridors of history are strewn with the debris of failed liberal and socialist attempts at government – from an ailing once great Britain, to the economic wreck that is Zimbabwe – yet they try, and try again, to impose that failed ideology on us. But how quickly they race to the history books to criticize conservatives and their most cherished beliefs!
The Dark Avenger , if I had written “except for Pastor Niemoller”, I suppose you would have had nothing to say. Pastor Niemoller was one protestant minister. Do you have any idea how many Catholics and Catholic priests ended up in concentration camps – about six million.
Not really, most of the Catholics who ended up killed or imprisoned by the Nazis were because they were Polish:
The White Rose movement was multi-denominational:
Have you ever heard of Dietrict Bonhoeffer?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonhoeffer
So Pastor Niemolle wasn’t the only Protestant to speak up against the Nazis.
Catholics hid Jews – have you ever heard of Anne Frank?; the Catholic Church provided Jewish people with nearly a million falsified Baptismal certificates. Anyone else from the mainstream Protestant denominations , or is that it?
Anyway, your attempt to make the Catholic Church “holier than thou” when it comes to WWII doesn’t negate the fact that Pius perhaps could’ve saved even more Jews by speaking out earlier, but chose to “remain neutral” according to the historic record.
I’m sure that there were individual cases of Protestants helping Jews as well.
Here’s an example:
Remeber the old saying, Frank:
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt.
Here is one big difference between the Holocaust, and any current efforts to find justice for abused children: Hitler wanted EVERY SINGLE Jew exterminated. Even if they were non-practicing, German-speaking, patriotic-to-Germany, converted-to-Christianity, they were still Jewish, and so eligible for death (often after a bit of slavery).
The Catholic hierarchy (and its staunch supporters) thinks it is above our secular legal system, so when you try to hold them accountable for any crimes, they are baffled, and can only assume that unreasing hatred is involved. The cynical take on this, is that they of course know that punishment is merited, and are pulling the Holocaust card in a desperate attempt to garner sympathy while evoking guilt in their opponents.
Nobody here thinks that every Catholic should be rounded up and shot. The only Catholics who should be punished are those who participated in, covered-up, or neglected to report the cases of child abuse. That’s just how the law is followed. And it isn’t based on hatred. At its root, it is about protecting human rights and well-being.
Also, most countries where these abuses have happened don’t apply the death penalty (and if they do, rape isn’t likely to be a capital crime). That can’t be compared to Nazi Germany.
Comparison to the Holocaust is uninformed at best, and cynically dishonest at worst.
I think that the Priest’s sermon was not designed to imply that the ever growing animus against the Catholic Church is like the Holocaust .
In fact now that the media is making news ” All Catholic Child Abuse. All the Time ” there will come the inevitable anti-Catholic nuts out of the woodwork , but they, of course , will either be overlooked , or forgiven once found, because , after all, the Catholic Church has made them SOOO mad !!
Oh, and Dark Avenger , I don’t have to scavenging all over the Internet to find evidence of Catholic resistance to the Nazis … Across the street from me is a Catholic Church ,it’s internal lanes named after prominent Catholics . One of them is Father Maximilian Kolbe who offered up his life for a Jewish prisoner at Auschwitz.
Better not be thought a fool , if you aren’t one …
The second largest group of prisoners to die in Concentration camps ?
Roman Catholics…
Now, shall we get back to the abused children, who have been all but forgotten in this rush to prosecute Catholic “higher ups”.
Frank;
If evidence shows that a higher official was aware of a felony committed by a subordinate, but decided not to report it to police, don’t you think he should be prosecuted?
Comparing the unjust persecution of the Jews throughout history to the justifiable prosecution and apprehension against the leadership of a Church who failed to heed the words of their own prophet is, of course a valid defense:
Oh, and Dark Avenger , I don’t have to scavenging all over the Internet to find evidence of Catholic resistance to the Nazis … Across the street from me is a Catholic Church ,it’s internal lanes named after prominent Catholics . One of them is Father Maximilian Kolbe who offered up his life for a Jewish prisoner at Auschwitz.
Neither did I have to scavenge across the Internet to find the examples I listed of Rightous Gentiles who helped Jews who weren’t Catholic. It literally took me a couple of minutes to use Google and find the examples of non-Catholic resistance, if you couldn’t do the same, that’s not my problem.
I met your challenge about Protestants helping Jews, by listing several individuals who did so. Deal with it.
I didn’t deny that Catholics individually did help save Jews from the Holocaust, and I knocked your assertion of how many Catholics died from Nazi persecution into a cocked hat as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi_Germany
The second largest group of prisoners to die in Concentration camps ?
Roman Catholics
As Christopher Isherwood said when he was talking to someone about the Holocaust and they stated that more Jews died in the camps than homosexuals, “Are we talking about real estate or what?”
I also explained to you earlier, the Nazis killed Poles because they were Poles, not because they were Catholics per se.
Do you have a link to back up your statistic?
László Teleki applies the term “Holocaust” to both the murder of Jews and Romani peoples by the Nazis.[27] In The Columbia Guide to the Holocaust, Donald Niewyk and Francis Nicosia use the term to include Jews, Gypsies and the disabled.[28] Dennis Reinhartz has claimed that Gypsies were the main victims of genocide in Croatia and Serbia during the Second World War, and has called this “the Balkan Holocaust 1941-1945″.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
Funny, nothing about Catholics being #2 on the Holocaust list, perhaps you have a source for your assertion that Catholics were #2 on the Nazi Concentration Camp hit list.
As you used to tell the girls during recess, “I’ve shown you mine, now show me yours”(references in this case)
Better not be thought a fool , if you aren’t one …
I’m probably being a fool by attempting to have a discussion about this subject with you.
Try reading this : The Catholic-Bashing Telephone Game, all the way to the end.
Before the insults start, because you are losing your argument.
Remember the iron-clad rule of political debate: The first personal to launch a personal attack or insult will be a leftie.
Try reading this : The Catholic-Bashing Telephone Game, all the way to the end
Except that Olivers’ characterization of what was said was accurate.
Frank DiSalle, my actual experience of the Catholic Church formulates my opinion of it.
I was baptized and made my First Communion as a Catholic. I went to parochial school until it was discovered that the teacher beat me with her aluminum cane in the 2nd grade, for which I don’t blame the Catholic Church, BTW.
Before the insults start, because you are losing your argument.
Don’t think you’ve made a case that the people in the hierarchy of the church are under a malignant attack that has nothing to do with how they handled child molesters in the past, Frank DiSalle.
Remember the iron-clad rule of political debate: The first personal to launch a personal attack or insult will be a leftie.
Yes, that’s proven by this remark:
have you ever heard of Anne Frank?
No, Frank, I never heard of her, my mother was a prisoner of the Japanese Army for 2 years in Shanghai, China under conditions that were slightly better than those that caused Anne Franks’ death, but I never bloody heard of Miss Frank until you brought her up in this thread.