There’s a difference between “didn’t answer” and “I didn’t like the answer”, Frank.

As fafaroo said, it would go by the guidelines of punishment for manslaughter, specifically vehicular manslaughter.

Oh, and Parthenon? Some of us don’t belong to the school of thought that says that as soon as you make something illegal, people run out and do it. EVERYTHING isn’t Prohibition.

Frank, I may think you’re a tad slow, but I know you’re not THIS fucking stupid. The point is that women in general don’t take abortion lightly, and if they think they need it, they’re going to get it whether or not it’s legal. Of course, if it’s illegal, it will be alot more dangerous. Do you honestly believe that abortion didn’t exist before 1973?

I have answered this question before — in this blog — but I will answer it again.

Frank, in your worldview, how is abortion NOT synonymous with contract killing?

4) It would not be difficult to demonstrate the duress of the patient, if that were the case (I suppose a zealous prosecutor might be trying to demonstrate that the abortion was willful and cold blooded, but then again, maybe not)

So you’re arguing that women are stupid and don’t know what an abortion actually is?

1) I didn’t ask about the doctor. No answer so far.
2) I think it’s safe to say that most anti-choice people think an unborn fetus is exactly the same as an already-born baby, right? Same “value”, same rights, etc., right? In that case, if ending the life of an innocent, defenseless fetus/baby/child doesn’t rise to the level of murder, then what would?
3)How on earth could you argue that intentionally “killing” a child could possibly be merely “negligent”? (See #2)
4)Why would the “duress” of the patient matter? Aren’t we talking about “killing” a defenseless child? That’s namby-pamby bleeding-heart thinkin’
5)WAAAA?
6 and 7) Again, We’re not talking about the Dr. We’re talking about the woman’s culpability for orchestrating/soliciting/abetting the “killing” of an innocent child for the sole purpose of terminating an unwanted pregnancy. Why are you willing to consider letting her off easy for such a “killing”?

Again, I’m just trying to make sense of this from the standpoint of those who would claim, “Abortion is murder! (or killing), Stop the 2nd Holocaust! All life is sacred!” You can’t credibly claim that abortion is literally the murder/killing/whatever of innocent babies; then be so wishy-washy about the consequences of those who engage in it should it ever be criminalized.

It isn’t enough to say, “Well, it depends on the circumstances.”

Yes, it does depend on the circumstances, but then you have to give clear cut guidelines for how to determine punishment based on the circumstances.

In your example of the car accident you are describing a case of manslaughter. What degree of manslaughter depends on the circumstances: involuntary, voluntary etc.

Once the degree of the crime is determined judges assign punishment within the sentencing guidelines provided for in the law. There are minimum and maximum sentences for various degrees of manslaughter which can differ from state to state or between state and federal courts.

When it comes to sentencing for crimes, the law can provide a maximum sentence, a minimum or a range. A sentencing scheme designed as a range is said to be indiscriminate, and the judge is at his own discretion within the parameters of the law. To assist his determination, and help maintain impartiality, sentencing guidelines can provide more specific sentences for variations of conditions of a crime.

http://www.ehow.com/way_5185339_involuntary-manslaughter-sentencing-guidelines.html

If you want an exact answer to your car accident question, here’s an outline of the sentencing guidelines in California (it’s going to differ from state to state):

Penal Code §192(c) Vehicular manslaughter is punishable as follows:
With gross negligence is punishable either by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by imprisonment in the state prison for two, four, or six years.
Without gross negligence is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year.
Penal Code §191.5(a) – Gross Vehicular Manslaughter While Intoxicated
punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for 4, 6, or 10 years.
If priors – state prison for a term of 15 years to life §191.5(d)

Penal Code §191.5(b) –Vehicular Manslaughter While Intoxicated – Ordinary Negligence
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months or 2 or 4 years.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080129104829AARQrkr

With regards to abortion, all you’ve done is provide a list of mitigating circumstances, but you have not yet provided your favored sentencing guidelines.

Do you understand the difference now?

Nothing?

What do you expect me to say?

Don’t the circumstances I presented to you suggest that there is no definite answer to the question?

If you are trying to “corner me” with some unpleasant answer, don’t even bother.

I’ll ask you the same question that I asked Zython, and he didn’t answer it, either: You see a car driving down the street. It screeches to a halt at a red light, and runs over the child. You don’t know whether the driver knew if he hit a child or not. What should the driver’s punishment be ?

You’re wrong on every count, Frank. How surprising.

ROME, Oct. 11 — A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it.

Moreover, the researchers found that abortion was safe in countries where it was legal, but dangerous in countries where it was outlawed and performed clandestinely. Globally, abortion accounts for 13 percent of women’s deaths during pregnancy and childbirth, and there are 31 abortions for every 100 live births, the study said.

The results of the study, a collaboration between scientists from the World Health Organization in Geneva and the Guttmacher Institute in New York, a reproductive rights group, are being published Friday in the journal Lancet.

“We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive,” Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. “What we see is that the law does not influence a woman’s decision to have an abortion. If there’s an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.”

But the legal status of abortion did greatly affect the dangers involved, the researchers said. “Generally, where abortion is legal it will be provided in a safe manner,” Dr. Van Look said. “And the opposite is also true: where it is illegal, it is likely to be unsafe, performed under unsafe conditions by poorly trained providers.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?_r=1

Frank, if your previous answers were anything like the one in this thread it’s pretty clear why people keep asking you the question: You didn’t actually provide an answer.

You presented a list of potentially mitigating circumstances in determining punishment but you you forgot to mention the actual punishment.

What, in your opinion, should be the punishment that is being mitigated? Jail time? A fine?

You don’t have to be bleeding to die of a septic abortion:

In Bangladesh, each year about 20,000 women die from pregnancy related causes. At least one-fifth of these deaths is caused by induced abortion, a problem that could be tackled quite significantly through good quality reproductive health care. Needless to mention, in Bangladesh abortion complications have adverse effects on public health in terms of premature deaths, illness, injuries, and impaired fertility, on the one hand, and on economic conditions of the affected families in terms of cost of emergency treatment, purchase of medicines etc., on the other.

Link

1) The Doctor and the patient have two different roles in this.
2) The taking of a life is not always murder , even in the third, second, or first degree
3) An abortion can be manslaughter, or negligent homicide.
4) It would not be difficult to demonstrate the duress of the patient, if that were the case (I suppose a zealous prosecutor might be trying to demonstrate that the abortion was willful and cold blooded, but then again, maybe not)
5) There would be issues about how many babies – and / or abortions – she had had before
6) The Doctor, since he would not be the one having the baby, or the abortion, would have more trouble finding mitigating circumstances
7) Parenthetically, the Doctor would be fighting to keep his license

If you were expecting “hang ‘em both from the nearest lamppost”, I’m sorry to disappoint.

And Tim : I was making no such comparison, except in thinking. Parthenon answered me fairly, although inaccurately, IMHO.

I have made the point before that women showing up in ER’s bleeding from “coat hanger abortion” bordered on the mythical, and may never have occurred at all.

Don’t suspect anyone does, Frank. My argument would be that people do certain things at close to the same frequency as before though they find alternate means of doing so. Alcohol consumption is one of those things, and abortion is another. As has been pointed out to you numerous times over the past several weeks, the numbers don’t bear you out re: self-induced abortion.

And you’re reading Ms. magazine?

It’s fairly obvious to most readers that the idea of a miscarriage being illegal is shocking, while the idea of deliberately killing your unborn baby by taking drugs, throwing yourself against a chair, or paying someone to punch you in the belly is much less shocking. Oliver’s choice of words is similar to reporting that someone was thrown in jail because their house burned down, when in fact they were thrown in jail for burning down their house.

Whether or not deliberately killing your unborn child should be illegal is certainly open to debate, surely the debate would be more honest if the law was described accurately in the first place.

And comparing this to drinking? Real classy.

A. An abortion.

Oh, and Parthenon? Some of us don’t belong to the school of thought that says that as soon as you make something illegal, people run out and do it. EVERYTHING isn’t Prohibition.