Bible Sights To Be Removed
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Michigan company that manufactures combat rifle sights for the U.S. military that carry Bible verse citations said Thursday it would send kits to remove the inscriptions, NBC reported.
Trijicon Inc. also said it would take off Biblical references from all U.S. military products that are still in the company’s factory and ensure future items do not have any inscriptions on them.
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I would say that it’s a good start, except that it’s not even a good stubbing-the-toe-before-the-start.
While it might be true that there are no athiests in foxholes when the shelling starts, it doesn’t mean those foxhole-occupants should proselytize as they march on.
Nobody likes men with guns telling them to convert….
I wonder if they had a Deuteronomy 21:18-21 sight
Religion and war have always been a bad mix.
How about those Bible verses where Joshua was instructed to kill every remaining living thing during the conquest of Palestine?
Speaking of religion and war, my favorite Christian crusades are the fourth, where a mission to retake Jerusalem morphed into the sacking of Constantinople instead, and the Children’s crusade where the kids were never heard from again (probably sold into slavery). Onward Christian Soldiers, eh?
Religion and war have always been joined at the hip.
All the verses referred to light, a reference to the improved vision provided by the sight.
There isn’t even a hint of government “forcing religion” on anybody.
And, in their attempt to create secular societies (and abolish religion as a competitor for the minds of men), Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were responsible for more than 100,000,000 deaths, or more people than were ever killed in all the religious and religion – related wars in all of history.
It was not the government because it was a company, though maybe the government should have reacted faster.
Oh, and about your Godwin, you know Hitler was a very religious man, leading a very religious regime. No question mark here, that’s not a question, I’m sure you do know, lying little Frankie.
Frank, when will you realize that there are religions other than Christianity?
LOL,
If only all the historically impaired liberals that pose as sages on religion and war could explain the large numbers of humans killed in warfare precipitated by Godless communism in the last century. No God, no religion, lots of war, millions of deaths.
Until modern times, religious wars were a major cause of deaths but not the absolute worst. For all times the top three have been:
1. A single guy (usually a psychopath) tries to, or does, dominate everybody else: Stalin, Mao, Genghis Khan…
2. Smaller more technologically advanced groups try to dominate or exploit larger ones: slave trades, annihilation of the American Indian, consequences of British conquests…
3. Civil wars and rebellions.
The smaller the concentration of power the worse the disaster. I say it’s mostly because of who it is that the unchecked power game rewards – the most cunning and ruthless control freak.
The decision to remove the verses regardless of what they say is a good one. After an estimated 100K deaths and 2M wounded or displaced, it doesn’t seem wise to give any disgruntled Iraqis out there more reasons to hate us.
Timmy,
You act as if on the whole the Crusades were a bad thing.
I think it all depended on who was in charge, not what that person claimed to stand for.
What would the Cappadocian Fathers have thought about the crusades? Did they ever suggest that initiating war against a “bastard child” of their own religion was been the right thing to do?
scratch the “been”
Zython, when will you realize that all the other religions get a pass from the “separation of Church and State” crowd, but the Christians…?
And if you can find similar animus directed towards another religion in this country, bring it, kid.
Frank, there is a serious animus directed at Muslims and has been for some time. Were you not around during the aftermath of 9/11? And Jews still receive a fair amount of abuse. Are you saying paganism gets any respect in America?
Let me put it in a different context – there was a billboard put up by a local atheist group, just saying “if you don’t believe in God, you aren’t alone.” And soon enough, local Christian groups all declared that it should be taken down. And it was. Meanwhile, I can pass by any number of billboards not only telling me to be Christian, but a creationist to boot. So, yeah – I think there IS an animus towards other religions in America.
Timmy,
You can’t seem to differentiate between religious and political motivation. The Crusades were “religion based” around the concept of liberating Christendom from the INVASION carried out by the Muslims. But it was the physical invasion that was the catalyst. Conquering territory is a hostile political move regardless of what reasons you may cloak those actions in.
The Muslims attacked and conquered Christian and Jewish territory. It took hundreds of years to push the bastards out of some of that land. They still hold some of it. War breeds atrocity, it’s actually more of a feature than a bug. Certainly brutal things were done in Christ’s name and from time to time innocent parties, usually jews, suffered as Crusaders sometimes settled for venting their frustration on “Christkillers” rather than Muslims despite papal directives to the contrary.
But as directed towards Muslims the only bad crusade is an ineffective one. The Muslims were the initial aggressers and had it coming to them. Wholesale slaughter of Muslims driving them from their appropriated ground was a good thing. There is very little that can surpass the lie that Islam is the religion of peace.
Frank, when was the last time that you saw a Torah in City Hall, or the Sh’mah printed on money, or how about “One nation, under Vishnu”, or when was the last time the post office and banks were closed for Rosh Hashonah?
If this is how you act under fake persecution, you would probably cry like a littler girl from the real stuff.
Why don’t you list the positive results?
Zython, and abanterer , after 9/11 there was a certain animus directed towards Muslims , but was it institutionalized in government , the Media or in organizations of any kind that already existed?
Nope.
Why are there no other religious symbols in government buildings? Because until the 1960′s , the United States was perceived to be a Judaeo – Christian nation founded on Biblical principles. That changed when a concerted effort was made to drive religion (the ones that were there) from the “public square”.
Unlike you, I don’t pretend that Fundamentalists, Catholics or Jews are trying to convert America. They are trying to prevent atheists from converting America.
And, Zython, I have defended my faith in more situations than you have facial hairs. Continue to insult me, and I will simply ignore you.
They are trying to prevent atheists from converting America.
Converting America to what? The First amendment already says we are religiously neutral, and what could be more religiously neutral than an atheist, who finds all religions identical, with none deserving any more favor than another?
Hmmmm…we have Trijicon sights on our pistols. Just examined mine, and there appears to be something imprinted on the rear sight just over the model designation. Wonder if its one of those verses? I’d need a loupe to read it though.
It never ceases to amaze me that when those of us try to point out and enforce the Constitutional principle of no state established religion, that we’re somehow persecuting Christians. Look, put up your cross, display your Christmas creche, just do it on your own lawn or at your own church. I really don’t care too much if you put it up on the public square either, so long as the square is open to ALL points of view.
CHambersburg PA used to display a nativity in the town square. They decided to remove the display rather than allow an atheist group to post a message honoring atheist veterans. WHat Christians really want is an exclusive right to the public square, and then claim persecution when they can’t have it.
http://www.atheistnexus.org/group/pennsylvaniaatheists/forum/topics/chambersburg-city-council?xg_source=activity
Zython, and abanterer , after 9/11 there was a certain animus directed towards Muslims , but was it institutionalized in government , the Media or in organizations of any kind that already existed?
First off, you must not have been watching Fox News much. I think they’d be considered a media outlet, and they had plenty of nasty things to say about Muslims. Secondly, please tell us where “animus” towards the Christians is institutionalized in government. Good luck, show your work.
Because until the 1960’s , the United States was perceived to be a Judaeo – Christian nation founded on Biblical principles. That changed when a concerted effort was made to drive religion (the ones that were there) from the “public square”.
Progress. Good. I’m glad that we’re working on correcting the misconceptions of the past.
They are trying to prevent atheists from converting America.
You are full of shit. We atheists tend to not care what kind of crazy nonsense theists tend to believe, until they bother us with it. Keep it to your goddamned selves. The atheists are not on any mission to convert the country. You’re an idiot.
I have defended my faith in more situations than you have facial hairs. Continue to insult me, and I will simply ignore you.
OOOOOOH, threats! Oh noes!
So right. Because it’s not as though we (a supposed “Christian nation”) have been involved in lots of wars or anything. Nope. We are a peaceful people, who don’t go abroad and kill large numbers of foreigners, and this is because we are one with Christ. Yep. Oh, those godless communists – it was precisely because of communism that so many died. Yep, a direct connection between godlessness and death.
Good call.
It’s not as though there are other factors at play. No, that would be crazy talk. It’s a direct line between godlessness and killing. Hell, I’ve already murdered two people today. I blame my atheism.
Oh, and as you know, the least-religiously minded countries in the world are the most warlike. Always. Like most of Western Europe for example – those fucking Swedes just cannot stop invading other countries and killing brown people.
In other words, and without sarcasm: Shut the fuck up, idiot. You don’t know shit.
What can be more ridiculous than an athiest using the term god damn?
You. Saying anything.
See, spring chicken mambo, a more mature, objective thinker would just gloss over said comment and ignore it if he didn’t agree with it. At the least, he wouldn’t let it upset him as it does you. One gets the impression when you watch a news show, and when the conservative voices his opinion, you just sit there and yell at the TV and say the F-word twenty times, just like you do here. What is it about any random comment that you think merits your disgust like it does? I’m not going to tell you to grow up, because you’re pretty much the norm for a young college professor who thinks he carefully considered both sides of the political spectrum and chose the liberal side. You don’t need to grow up- you’re right about where you’re supposed to be. The time for growing up for you will come later.
Are you taking Psych 101 this term, Den’. What’d you get on the midterm?
The Muslims attacked and conquered Christian and Jewish territory. It took hundreds of years to push the bastards out of some of that land.
Oh heck! All this time, I thought AO wanted to re-fight the Civil War. Turns out I was off by several hundred years.
See, spring chicken mambo, a more mature, objective thinker would just gloss over said comment and ignore it if he didn’t agree with it.
First off, it’s rich of you to be lecturing me on maturity. You, a person who routinely gives his political opponents stupid nicknames as a way to marginalize or discredit them. You, a person who so rarely engages with the topic at hand that every regular poster here knows what it means for me to ask you, “So, Dennis… Schmidt?”
What makes you think that you would know what a “more mature, objective thinker” would do in that spot? I’d like to point out that being mature and objective does not mean being neutered, and not saying anything, when somebody spouts idiocy like AO does above.
At the least, he wouldn’t let it upset him as it does you. One gets the impression when you watch a news show, and when the conservative voices his opinion, you just sit there and yell at the TV and say the F-word twenty times, just like you do here.
Yep. Let’s see… I said “fuck” twice and “shit” once in that post, Dennis. Yep, sure seems like I don’t have a handle on my emotions. Are you such a precious delicate flower that you can’t handle any profanity? Or, more likely, do you think that you can make a play to discredit my remarks simply because I use a naughty word or two?
What is it about any random comment that you think merits your disgust like it does?
Not random comments. Decidedly nonrandom, stupid comments. Comments from you, Frank, and AO in particular tend to fall into this category. You and your ilk say things that are often stupid, repugnant, and lacking any sense of reality. That is what disgusts me.
I’m not going to tell you to grow up, because you’re pretty much the norm for a young college professor who thinks he carefully considered both sides of the political spectrum and chose the liberal side. You don’t need to grow up- you’re right about where you’re supposed to be. The time for growing up for you will come later.
Yeah, yeah. Keep on infantalizing me, a grown man, simply because I disagree with you and continually point out that you’re a fucking clown. What do you say to the elder liberals on here that agree with me? Can you possibly infantalize them in the same way, so as to marginalize their views? Another thought – is it tough for your self-esteem being constantly shown up intellectually by a know-nothing child?
I should also point out that it’s sadly hilarious the way that conservative dolts fear and distrust highly educated people. It’s as though they realize that education is an enemy of their political philosophy. Funny, that.
but was it institutionalized in government , the Media or in organizations of any kind that already existed?
Nope.
Uh, what the hell are you talking about? Abu Ghraib? Torture memos? 24? I’m going to pray, for the sake of my sanity, that you just weren’t paying attention.
Because until the 1960’s , the United States was perceived to be a Judaeo – Christian nation founded on Biblical principles.
Actually, this is one of Leo Strauss’s famous “noble lies”. Fascinating stuff, but I’m sure you’re familiar with his work already.
And if this nation was “founded on Biblical principles”, then why is there no mention of God anywhere in the Constitution. You would think that the most important American document would at least give a mention to the most important figure in the Bible.
I also love how you talk about Judaism in great peril, when you yourself couldn’t care less about us.
Huh? So those 100,000,000 deaths from the, you claim (incorrectly) religion hating Hitler et al, weren’t “religion – related”?
That’s our consistently inconsistent Frank!