Not A Party Problem
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A new poll seems to indicate that Chris Dodd’s senate seat still leans pretty strongly Democratic, and the weakness there is from Dodd and not the Democrats.
The biggest mistake the Democrats have made since 2006, and especially since President Obama’s election, has been not being progressive enough, and not the line of bunk the MSM is selling (if the press had their way they’d push both parties to just right of Mussolini, and the GOP is almost there).
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
It has nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with typical BS politics.
The healthcare debate is a perfect example. President Obama has been showing promising no less than EIGHT TIMES that any final healthcare negotiations would take place in public and actually be broadcast on C-Span. What are we seeing instead? A process that will take place in secret and will completely shut out Republicans in the final negotiations.
It’s crap like that which has Democrats in trouble and it started like that right out of the gate in 2009. It took less than a year for the Democratic party to piss away the good will they had with the public. It might be a record.
I think Bush wins – twice – for his post-9/11 nonsense, and for his brilliant post-re-election plan to privatize social security. Obama’s mistake was believing that the opposition party wasn’t a bunch of fringe lunatics.
That’s being a little disingenuous on a few counts Jay. For one, and I could be wrong here, but I think the moment President Obama left the Senate for the White House, he sort of forfeited any ability he might have to invite C-SPAN into legislative negotiations. If anything, the fault is not in failing to televise the negotiations, but instead in making what was probably an unkeepable promise in the first place.
Having said that, this has still been perhaps the single most transparent example of bill making we’ve seen to date. Indeed, I would think that self-styled “progressives” would have a bill far more suitable to their tastes had this bit of sausage making gone on behind closed doors as opposed to splashed across memeorandum on a daily basis.
It’s also laughable to even mention Republicans in the context of the health care debate. You have in the Senate right now so few moderate Republicans that they can be counted on one hand with fingers left over. they are the only members in the Senate to come close to negotiating in good faith and after having Democrats bow and scrape to these few (Olympia Snow, I’m looking at you), they still voted against it. Take them out, and the sanest argument from Republicans you get is mumblings about tort reform that are greatly drowned out by “death panels”, “nazism”, “socialism” “you lie” and pretty much a broad spectrum of scare tactics and mud-slinging politics.
No. After nearly a full year of debate on this topic, the one thing Republicans managed to prove is that they have no place in adult negotiations.
the moment President Obama left the Senate for the White House, he sort of forfeited any ability he might have to invite C-SPAN into legislative negotiations.
They don’t call it “The Bully Pulpit” for nothing. You don’t think Obama could use his *VAST* oratory skills to publicly browbeat Pelosi and Reid into submission?
You’re kind of selling your guy short there. Is buyer’s remorse finally settling in?
Cmon Kyle. That’s kind of weak. You’re claiming that because he’s President, he doesn’t have any power to do these kinds of things? He’s got the power of the bully pulpit. He’s on television enough. Get on there and make an announcement he wants the negotiations done in public and C-Span cameras to be allowed in. At that point it will be up to Pelosi and Reid, but at least at that point, the onus would be on them. But he hasn’t said a word. If he knew he was merely playing to the audiences when he made such promises, he shouldn’t have made them.
As for the final negotiations, regardless of whatever you think the GOP did or didn’t do and your snark about “adulthood” , it’s just really bad form to leave the minority party locked out of the final negotiations.
Finalizing legislation behind locked doors and in secret.
Change we can believe in…..
“A process that will take place in secret and will completely shut out Republicans in the final negotiations.”
And the Republicans have demonstrated their willingness to be constructive how, exactly? When the very first draft of the house bill was released what was the Republican response? Death panels.
In other words, they passed on an opportunity to have to a serious policy discussion about a bill out in the public in order to push an outright lie.
Maybe when the Republicans grow up they can be invited back to the adult table.
It took less than a year for the Democratic party to piss away the good will they had with the public. It might be a record.
Yeah, if they keep at it for another few years they might be even less popular than congressional republicans!
Of course, at this rate it will take Obama another twenty years to reach Bushian levels of unpopularity. But don’t worry, I’m sure Instaputz can find a few more snaps of him looking uppity to speed things along.
and will completely shut out Republicans in the final negotiations.
Good. Fuck ‘em.
Is that all you got Jay?
The GOP has contibuted absolutely zero to the entire process to this point other than pigheaded obstructionism. And your big gotcha moment is that the conference negotiations won’t be on the teevee?
Jay: regardless of whatever you think the GOP did or didn’t do and your snark about “adulthood” , it’s just really bad form to leave the minority party locked out of the final negotiations.
The Republicans have shown, repeatedly, that they have no interest in participating in any negotiations. Their goal, which several have baldly stated, is to prevent any significant legislation from happening. Not because they object to the provisions of the legislation, but because the Dems are in the majority.
“Death panels” and “socialism” are just the two most obvious lies and misdirections that the Republicans have chosen to engage in rather than honest debate.
When the other side insists on having a food fight, you don’t let them sit at the grown-ups table. No matter how much they pout about it.
Elections have consequences, remember?
I love it when the conservatives get a taste of their own medicine then they cry like little girls about it, acting as if they didn’t plow all over the Democrats for the last 8 year when they had the majorities.
Or do you have a case of Selective Republican Amnesia too?
So far, the Republicans haven’t shown they are remotely interested in working with Obama on anything. Their idea of compromise is for him to give in to all their demands, or else he is being the big meanie.
Well, if you act like a spoiled little brat, you deserve to be treated as such. With idiots like Boehner and Cantor leading the charge, no wonder they are getting bitchslapped left and right by Obama, as they deserve to.
I’m mad at Dorgan for quitting
An “outright lie” that Democrats implicity admitted was true when they stripped the provision from the original bill.
Aww…the poor wittle Democrats can’t handle some over the top rhetoric so their response is to develop a secret knock that only other Democrats are told about? That’s real mature.
I haven’t posted here in awhile and see much hasn’t changed. It’s the same crap. I’m old enough to remember when Democrats were talking about the GOP “starving children” when they wanted to consolidate wasteful school lunch programs in 1995 or the fear-mongering about Grandma being thrown out on the street to eat cat food out of cans when any mention of Medicare waste was mentioned. So please people…stop pretending like this is new.
And I remember posting on this blog somewhere a bunch of links to proposals, ideas and submitted legislation from Republican office holders that was immediately dismissed simply because it didn’t have the Democratic National Committee seal of approval on it. So spare me the crocodile tears about “death panels” and “socialism.”
Obama is breaking promises at the speed of light and this is just another one. And there has been no gift more giving to the GOP than the absolutely pathetic “leadership” of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi. I know the hacks (like so many here) are slapping high fives and getting giddy over the GOP being locked out of the conference committee with negotiations being done secretly, but the public isn’t going to like it and the Democrats will have nobody to blame but themselves.
Save, from the article you linked to:
So Palin was, in fact, lying her ass off.
The only thing Democrats “implicitly” revealed was that they haven’t the stomach or the skills to combat conservative lies.
You’re using the same pathetic excuse that Dennis tried to pull when this first went down: Our liar succeeded in scaring democrats so that means it must be true!
You’re a fucking idiot.
What? Implicitly admit…!?! Holy catfish.
Is there someone who feeds you everyday? Because based on that comment, I’m guessing you can’t handle the job on your own.
Ms. Palin claimed that Mr. Obama planned to set up panels of bureaucrats who would decide who gets medical treatment and who does not based upon their preceived value to society. Nothing like that was ever taken out of the bill because nothing like that was ever in the bill.
And I remember posting on this blog somewhere a bunch of links to proposals, ideas and submitted legislation from Republican office holders that was immediately dismissed simply because it didn’t have the Democratic National Committee seal of approval on it.
I remember that too, Jay, because I took the time to read your links. They weren’t dismissed because they didn’t have the DNC seal of approval. They were dismissed because they didn’t have the approval of Republican Congressional Leadership! You linked to a collection of vague, half-baked rehashes of “let all the insurance companies be regluated by the state of South Dakota,” with practically no support even from other Republicans.
Meanwhile, we’ve gone almost a year waiting for the Gang of Six to hammer out a “bipartisan compromise” in which the Republican participants had no intention of voting for, no matter what.
You want to talk crocodile tears? Let’s talk about the “poor wittle Wepublicans being shut out” crock.
Dodd’d problems have always been particular to him. Obama used him as a scapegoat, pressuring him to keep AIG bonuses in tact and then letting him twist in the wind due to the fallout. Dodd’s career has been over since then.
Rasmussen: GOP Has Nine Point Advantage Over Democrats on a Generic Ballot
This is not a party problem for Democrats.
Ben Nelson: “We should have waited on health care.”
Ya think, Ben?
This is not a party problem for Democrats, either.
Dodd’s eviction gives me a *little* bit of hope that our electorate isn’t completely hopeless after all. I’d prefer him going to prison, but this is better than nothing. Now if we can get Frank out, we’ll all be better off.
it’s just really bad form to leave the minority party locked out of the final negotiations.
Oh, you mean like [R]‘s with Medicare Part D?
If it’s good for the goose, take a gander at this….
What happens when you factor in Tea Party candidates?
Ben just doesn’t have an ounce of self-awareness, does he?
Ben spent the entire year shoving his way into the middle of health care battle, positioned himself to commit the most embarrassing sort of legislative extortion, and now he comes along and says none of it ever should have happened?
What’s more is he thinks the Obama administration would have been better off spending the time on the economy? Well. Let’s just look up all of Sen. Nelson’s economic initiatives that have gone ignored, shall we?
Um.
Tell you what. I hope a real Republican actually takes his seat. At least then the trusting fellows in Democratic leadership might know to expect this kind of dishonest b.s.
I’d prefer him going to prison,
On charges of being a Democrat?
Seriously, I keep hearing wingnuts natter on about what a crook Dodd is, but all they ever seem to offer as evidence is that he got a mortgage rate that was a fraction of a point lower than the average rate offered to all customers. (The fact that he undoubtedly has very good credit never figures into the calculation.)
What would you send him to prison for, Buzzwell.
What’s more is he thinks the Obama administration would have been better off spending the time on the economy?
The other problem with this statement is that Obama has always, from the beginning, pitched health care reform and lowering health care costs as an essential part of his economic recovery strategy.
‘Trusting fellows in Democratic leadership’?
He he. Good one, Quaker.
Oxymoron of the year so far.
So the Democratic leadership aren’t trusting? Dennis, do you know what trusting means?
And, by the way, you are correct. Ben Nelson is a party problem, as in the party would be better off without “Democrats” like him.
You gotta give me a little more to work with, Den’. So far, I see no evidence you comprehend any of the words involved here.
Obama has … pitched health care reform and lowering health care costs as an essential part of his economic recovery strategy.
So essential that those countries with Universal Health Care (Spain, Greece, Japan, Germany, France, Great Britain) are just BURSTING with economic growth recently.
Obama can pitch it all he wants. But the inconvenient facts show that the recession would have occured with or without healthcare reform. It’d make just as much sense for him to lobby for Immigration reform as a way to end the Palestinian/Israeli tensions.
Save, health care reform is one factor among many, not the silver bullet that’s going to restore economic growth on its own. But when health care costs are rising faster than inflation and wages, they do create a significant drag on the average American’s ability to spend and save:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/09/AR2006010901932.html
And that was in 2006. Read the whole article. Health care costs are directly related to health of the economy, Save. This statement of yours:
…is so stupid on its face it makes me wonder how you ever figured out how to turn on your computer, let alone find the internet and type something out on the keyboard.
The intellectual dishonesty of the rightwing posters on this board never fails to amaze me.
Really? I’m never amazed by the intellectual dishonesty of rightwing posters, myself. I pretty much expect it as par for the course.
Jay: Aww…the poor wittle Democrats can’t handle some over the top rhetoric so their response is to develop a secret knock that only other Democrats are told about? That’s real mature.
So, you respond to a winger’s comment with a clear explanation that they’re not being included in the process because they’ve been acting spoiled children and the winger responds by… acting like a child.
I’m old enough to remember when Democrats were talking about the GOP “starving children” when they wanted to consolidate wasteful school lunch programs in 1995 or the fear-mongering about Grandma being thrown out on the street to eat cat food out of cans when any mention of Medicare waste was mentioned. So please people…stop pretending like this is new.
Really, Jay. You’d think after a sabatical you’d come back with something new. Instead it’s more “look over there”.
Folks here have been critical of the Dems and I’ll agree that they should be called out and criticized when they go too far. So are you able to actually agree Republicans have been lying and obstructive on the healthcare debate, or is your only trick “But look what the Dems did.”? Surely if it was wrong of the Dems, uh, 15 years ago it’s wrong of the Repubs now.
And there has been no gift more giving to the GOP than the absolutely pathetic “leadership” of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi.
As many here, from our host (repeatedly) on down, have already said. And a similar argument could be made for the naked obstructionism we-will-block-anything-you-propose-just-because-and-no-we-don’t-have-any-of-our-own-why-do-you-ask coming from the Repubs has been a gift to the Dems.
SaveFarris: An “outright lie” that Democrats implicity admitted was true when they stripped the provision from the original bill.
Bullshit. Removing the provision shows only that the Dems have no backbone and cave easily.
The “death panels” nonsense was demonstrably false. There never was anything at all in the proposed bill anything like “death panels” and all anyone had to do to see that was actually read the 2-3 paragraphs in that section. “Death panels” is bald lie.
Which is exactly what the Dems should have proclaimed loudly and repeatedly every single time someone like you brought up this utter crap. Instead, being the weak cowards they are, they said “Well, if you’re gonna lie about it we’ll just take it out, OK?” proving their cravenness.
But “death panels” remains a lie and you remain an idiot for continuing to believe it.
On the contrary, I’d be amazed by any intellectual honesty from the right.
I’d honestly welcome it and relish the idea of actively debating with someone who has a different point of view and is able to maturely challenge opinions I may have.
But I’m not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.
Hey, every party has their problems. Currently I’d take those of my party over the alternative any day of the week:
ABC News’ Aaron Katersky and Rick Klein report: RNC Chairman Michael Steele is lashing out his critics, with a series of blunt messages for prominent Republicans who have blasted him over his leadership for the Republican Party.
“I tell them to get a life. That’s old Washington, that’s old ways, and I don’t represent that, and that kills them,” Steele told ABC News Radio in an interview today.
“I’m telling them and I’m looking them in the eye and say I’ve had enough of it. If you don’t want me in the job, fire me. But until then, shut up. Get with the program or get out of the way.”
Please, Sean. Right or left, you can’t keep from getting into a pissing contest no matter what you’re arguing with, entertaining as it is when it’s with one of your fellow moonbat lefties.
“to maturely challenge”
Not surprised you didn’t understand that part, Dennis.
The only reason he’s saying this is because his constituents are angry at him for not getting on board with the better plan. So, of course, like any good conservative, he’s blaming everyone but himself.
Rasmussen writes that in the U.S. Senate race in “heavily Democratic Masachusetts”, Democrat Coakley holds “just” a nine-point lead over Republican Brown. How come he doesn’t write in his headline “GOP has Just Nine-Point Advantage Over Democrats On a Generic Ballot,” even though, by definition of it being a “generic ballot,” he had to factor in “heavily Republican” congressional district (House races) and states (Senate races) to get to this polling date(after all, the obvious reason that he used the word “just” in front of the mention of Coakley’s nine-point lead over Brown in Mass. was the fact that the state is “heavily Democratic”)? Could it be…pro-Republican/pro-conservative bias? Nah.
2008: Kerry wins by 35%
2006: Kennedy wins by 39%
2002: Kerry wins by 62%
2000: Kennedy wins by 60%
1996: Kerry wins by 8%
1994: Kennedy wins by 17%
1990: Kerry wins by 14%
1988: Kennedy wins by 31%
1984: Kerry wins by 10%
1982: Kennedy wins by 22%
1978: Tsongas wins by 11%
1976: Kennedy wins by 40%
1972: Brooke (R) wins by 29%
1970: Kennedy wins by 25%
1964: Kennedy wins by 49%
1962: Kennedy wins by 13%
Only once in the last 38 years has it been that close. I’d say that’s “news”.
Charlie Cook: Dems Could Lose the House
This is not a party problem.
Rasmussen knows how to make his main audience salivate like dogs at a deli case. For example see SF’s and Dennis’s posts below.
the GOP would have to win every single race now thought to be competitive to reach 218, the barest possible majority.
Good news for Republicans!!
Charlie Cook: Monkeys Could Jump Right Outta My Butt
So, tell me qheiourhiowaghe;oi, where’s the DOMA and DADT repeal? Where’s the ceasing of torture? Where’s the
most would rather they not do ANYTHING to health care
Most what? Millionaires? Retards? Because polls show that most Americans support changing it. I’d say “nice try”, but it really wasn’t.
and we’re giving civilian trials to terrorists.
Why do you hate the American justice system so much?
The American justice system isn’t for enemy combatants.
Define “enemy combatant”.
In 2010, you’re going to get stomped.
Considering the track record of conservative predictions, I take this to mean another landslide victory for the Dems.
“The American justice system isn’t for enemy combatants.”
An American airplane with unarmed civilians isn’t a “combat zone.”