Senate Health Care Bill Advances
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Senate health care bill has advanced, Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln vote “aye”. 60 – 40.
Senate Democrats won a milestone victory early Monday in the health-care debate, approving a procedural motion to move the reform legislation to final passage later this week, and without a single vote to spare.
The 60-40 tally, taken shortly after 1 a.m., followed 12 hours of acrimonious debate and required senators to trek to the Capitol in the aftermath of a snowstorm. The vote was the first of three procedural hurdles that Democrats must cross before a final vote on passage of the measure, now scheduled for Christmas Eve.
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Number of Republicans voting “Aye”: 0
You’re not counting Lieberman?
Number of Liebermans voting “Lieberman”: Lieberman!
Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins once again vote with Norquist but get “moderate” billing in the media
The Senate voted and took Ironic Times’ advice:
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the shameless sellout.
What all Republicans oppose is by definition good.
“Senate Health Care Bill Advances” or more appropriately “Thieves in the Night”.
Oh *snap*! Good one!
OH NOEZ! Now we are all going to be enslaved under the Soros/Moveon/Socialist/Ayers Forced Abortion Death Panel! Buy gold! Buy gold! I want my country back, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
That was used for the Patriot Act.
Yep. Congratulations on taking a jack-hammer to your political base in order to pass a Bill with a 30% approval rating. I’m sure losing 5 seats in the Senate and 30 in the House will be awesome for achieving Obama’s political goals. Of course, since he clearly doesn’t care about Unemployment, won’t fire Bernake (and yes, he could. I don’t care what the rules actually say, if he came out against him, Bernake would be toast), doesn’t seem to thin any constituencies by bankers and blue dogs matter, he was always going to lose at least 2 dozen seats anyway.
Good luck with that.
Yay!!!! Let’s all be grateful for a big, steaming shit sandwich!
Oh you guys are being such downers. After all the point of passing this bill is to be able to get more and better reforms later on. At some unspecified date. Through unstated plans to adapt this bill for the future. Over possible decades.
And we can be sure that will get accomplished while we have these brave, bold, fearless Democrats who have shown what strong backbones they have throughout this entire process, lot letting themselves be pushed around by individuals with petty agendas or greedy requests, keeping control of the political narrative so its not hijacked with, to pick a term at random, talk of nonexistant “death panels,” or somesuch other nonsense. I know I’ll sleep soundly knowing these stalwart defenders of their ideals will fight to the last to do what is unequivocally and vastly best for the American people.
It’s kind of funny that supporters (supporters!!!) are saying if nothing passes now, “We’ll have to wait another generation”, but if we get this specific bill passed today, “We can come back next year and get more, better reforms”.
All you’re doing is increasing the perception that there’s some NASTY stuff in this bill that wouldn’t hold up to scrutiny were this actually being debated in a transparent and forthright manner instead of being passed in the dead of night 72 hours before Christmas.
Rex, I’m as upset with this as you are (maybe a bit less), but try to keep in mind your alternative to the Democrats is a band of braying Malkinites.
Remember, every single Republicans ALSO voted against Clinton’s Deficit Reduction Act, which reduces the deficit and started an economic boom.
Remember, every single Republicans ALSO voted against Clinton’s Deficit Reduction Act, which reduces the deficit and started an economic boom.
Didn’t know that. Will remember it the next time somebody credits Newt for the 90s.
[[[Remember, every single Republicans ALSO voted against Clinton’s Deficit Reduction Act, which reduces the deficit and started an economic boom.]]
Didn’t know that. Will remember it the next time somebody credits Newt for the 90s.
Actually, Newt had this to say at the time:
“The tax increase will kill jobs and lead to a recession, and the recession will force people off of work and onto unemployment and will actually increase the deficit…Stay tuned for the next 60 days. I think we’re frankly now living on borrowed time.” – Newt Gingrich, August 1993.
Congratulations! You PROGRESSIVES now own it. You drafted it. You shaped it. You twisted arms to get the votes, and now under cover of darkness and without the public being able to review the bill, you are going to pass it. I can’t wait for the signing ceremony in the White House. Won’t that be a great photo-op!!!1
So the distinction is in how obvious their destructive idiocy is? Marvelous. By all means let us delide ourselves into seeing this as nothing but positive and a gateway to eventual, actual medical care for people. I mean sure, most of the reforms won’t even hit until 2014, but I’m sure every single sick person and everyone who ever will be sick can afford to sit around and wait, because one day, maybe, eventually, they’ll be able to make a slightly more freeing and knowledgeble about what insurance options are being made available for them to purchase. That’s just as good as seeing a doctor, right?
Serious question: anyone know of any nuanced, thoroughgoing examination of the way the health care lobby works to intimidate a congressperson so that he/she works for the lobby instead of the electorate? And in so doing defies the expressed wishes of that electorate (e.g, the 70% who wanted the public option). Is there a known process whereby lobbyists fund an incumbent’s opponent, finance a smear campaign, etc. to oust someone who advocated something they didn’t like?
Is that pretty much it? Or is there more? In any case I haven’t seen this process detailed on any blog or network. If congresspeople are puppets, I’d like to see how the strings get pulled, exactly.
DOW JONES:
Jan 1, 1993-Jan 1, 1995: 9% annual Increase (3300 to 3900)
Jan 1, 1995 -Jan 1, 2001: 29% annual Increase (3900 to 10600)
All that “explosive growth” you remember from the 1990′s? It all happened AFTER the Contract with America.
Clinton does deserve some credit for the economic boom (NAFTA & GAAT in particular). But the statistics clearly show that it was Republicans coming in and showing some fiscal responsibility is when the economy really took off.
Rex, you seem to think that the alternative to passing this bill was passing a different bill. The way I see it, the alternative was passing no bill at all.
If you think this bill is a big win for the insurance companies and the GOP, standing on principle and watching the bill fail would have given them an even bigger victory.
Keep playing that same old song.
See, to me the choice was between changing the rules regarding a filibuster or not, which would have only required a simple majority, or letting Lieberman embarass himself by reading a phonebook in order to try, and fail, to prevent a piece of legislation that the majority of Americans, and his constituents, support, and will pass when he’s done anyway, effectively replacing him for good come next senatorial election.
In my ideal fantasy surrealistic magical fairytopia, Harry Reid calls Lieberman’s bluff and forces him to hold the floor for the duration. In my way-out fantasy, we have the democrats standing united against being pressured to compromise the welfare of the American people for bullshit political expediency. In my bizarre, crazy dreamings, the Democrats outlast Lieberman’s petty bickering bullshit, strip him of his committee chairmanships, let him, and the American people, know that they’re taking a stand for something, and other such things that demonstrate that they have a fucking spine, in other words.
And now, I’m just supposed to expect that after watching this spectacle, that I should be trusting these people to lead the charge in the future with even more reforms, when most of these take full effect for the next few election cycles?
The way I see it, this might be the only bill that passes for the next decade, and what the public thinks of it will effectively decide when, if ever, we bother with it again. With as comparatively little as this bill will accomplish, passing an unpopular bill is, to my mind, drastically worse than failing to pass a popular bill.
Yes, what remains in the bill is significant, and it is positive, and it is necessary, and it is grossly, grossly insufficient, and insanely disheartening after all the posturing done over all this time. Practically a year on this, and I still don’t know when I or my fiance will ever actually be able to go to a doctor and be treated.
The second I do know, I’ll reassess my opinion of the situation. Until then, for the while that the Government is effectively telling me that I’m supposed to stay sick, I beg thee to forgive my lack of support here.
If you think this Democrat version of Health Care “Reform” is unpopular now (still over 50% disapproval, please note), wait until the first 20-something Obama supporters start getting notices from the gov’t that they are required, under penalty of law , to spend a big chunk of their income to either (1) buy one of the new pricey policies being offered by the insurance companies (now much higher because of the gov’t-mandated “everything but the kitchen sink must be included” coverage and “no-prior conditions excluded” law) or (2) pay a $700+ yearly tax/fee to the gov’t for the privileged of not having health insurance (but staying out of jail).
Or how about when the 85% of Americans who currently have coverage find that their rates have now skyrocketed (again, thanks to the broader coverage and “no-prior conditions” changes).
And don’t forget those people (again, the majority of Americans) with employer-provided coverage who are unceremoniously dumped from their plans when the employers find that the required taxes are far lower than the (again skyrocketing) cost of covering their employees.
What about when the federal gov’t stops picking up the tab for higher Medicaid costs and already overburdened states are left holding the bag? Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
I’m quite sure the Democrats will be able to ride the resulting wave of public dissatisfaction and anger to reelection in 2010, 2012 and beyond.
In my ideal fantasy surrealistic magical fairytopia, Harry Reid calls Lieberman’s bluff and forces him to hold the floor for the duration.
Reid can’t force that. All the GOP has to do is keep one Senator on the floor to make procedural motions whenever Reid tries to end debate. The Mr. Smith Goes to Washington version of filibuster isn’t actually how it works.
my way-out fantasy, we have the democrats standing united against being pressured to compromise the welfare of the American people for bullshit political expediency.
That’s out there allright. We’re Democrats. We don’t do the standing united thing so well.
passing an unpopular bill is, to my mind, drastically worse than failing to pass a popular bill
Right. That’s where we differ.
In my bizarre, crazy dreamings, the Democrats outlast Lieberman’s petty bickering bullshit, strip him of his committee chairmanships, let him, and the American people, know that they’re taking a stand for something
Even if that means the vote is 59-41 and the filibuster stands?
Yes, what remains in the bill is significant, and it is positive, and it is necessary, and it is grossly, grossly insufficient,
Won’t argue there. But I’d rather have a small gain than nothing at all. Our system of government–especially in today’s hyperpartisan environment–just can’t muster the will for cataclysmic change. It has to come along incrementally. Does that suck? Sure. But that’s how it is.
But the statistics clearly show that it was Republicans coming in and showing some fiscal responsibility is when the economy really took off.
Only if you don’t understand statistics.
9% growth over 2 years (1993-1995) = 4.4% per year
29% growth over 6 years (1995-2001) = 4.3% per year
You’d best leave the cipherin’ to Elly May.
Oh, you were reporting annual growth. Sorry.
Therein lies the problem. On one hand, the Democrats in congress deserve to have the ultra-cons rule over them. On the other hand, we don’t.
The part that confounds me is just how little shit the GOP is taking for all this.
There was no way they were going to vote for anything, no matter how good it was. And when they had an entire DECADE to work on the problem, they decided it was more important to cut taxes and set fire to the middle east.
And now they’re flinging their poop at the weaksauce bill that managed to squeak thru the Senate.
These people are genuinely mentally ill.
Yup, just like how we own Social Security, Medicare, Women’s Suffrage, and the Civil Rights Movement. I’m sure we’ll be regretting it just like the rest of those.
Why attack the GOP when it’s so much more fun to attack ourselves. You know, there was, for like maybe five minutes one chilly November night that I thought we may unform the circular firing squad.
sigh
I totally love bubbles too.
Just, not that much.
” and now under cover of darkness and without the public being able to review the bill, you are going to pass it.”
LOL,
Just another lie from Obama!
Um, I was able to read the bill. It was on THOMAS and the Senate website since Reid released it basically.
If you think this Democrat version of Health Care “Reform” is unpopular now (still over 50% disapproval, please note), wait until the first 20-something Obama supporters start getting notices from the gov’t that they are required, under penalty of law , to spend a big chunk of their income to either (1) buy one of the new pricey policies being offered by the insurance companies (now much higher because of the gov’t-mandated “everything but the kitchen sink must be included” coverage and “no-prior conditions excluded” law) or (2) pay a $700+ yearly tax/fee to the gov’t for the privileged of not having health insurance (but staying out of jail).
You know, we had a way to avoid that part, but you guys kinda screwed that up. Good going.
What’s really the point in correcting him? He’s just going run away wit his tail between his legs as usual.
Any excuse to show an ABBA video is a good one. Those hilarious outfits just make it better.
Agnetha was a knockout.
The way you all are discussing this reminds me of The World’s Strongest Man Contest on ESPN. A bunch of guys, all of whom are obviously strong, get together and lift, roll or push, random heavy objects to see who is “the strongest”.
This is not a political arm wrestling contest. This is about real people, who avoid getting necessary medical care, because they can’t afford it; people that don’t go to a dentist for years; women that have children with only two or three months of obstetrics care. The Democrats want to replace the Medico – Industrial Complex with the Federal Medico – Industrial Complex. Wow! That’s Progress!
Here is one person’s reaction in a letter to the Baltimore Sun:
Still feel like pulling that bus with your teeth?
Of course, when we point out stories of people who are denied coverage by the Health Care Industry, we’re accused of “personalizing” the debate. But hey, let’s tear it apart anyhow?
I work in the health care field and have not treated one patient in favor of nationalized health care.
This is utterly meaningless without knowing how many people this person has treated. I’m guessing it’s in the single to double digits.
I have yet to meet one person who is in favor of ballooning our national debt so this administration can make political history.
Yet they supported it in March 2003. Guess no price is too high when it comes to killing brown people.
Furthermore, I have spoken to dozens of other health care professionals who are considering leaving the health care field completely should this bill pass.
Good. More room for people who care about treating diseases rather than their pocketbooks.
I am afraid that if this bill passes, we as Americans will suffer global embarrassment
By doing what every other first word country did dozens of years ago? What?
and financial ruin as a result
Didn’t that happen last year?
Finally:
This is about real people, who avoid getting necessary medical care, because they can’t afford it; people that don’t go to a dentist for years; women that have children with only two or three months of obstetrics care.
True, you believe they deserve to die, we don’t.
And when they had an entire DECADE to work on the problem, they decided it… was futile since anything they came up with would have met with a filibuster.
Zython:
Of course, when we point out stories of people who are denied coverage by the Health Care Industry, we’re accused of “personalizing” the debate.
Guess no price is too high when it comes to killing brown people.
True, you believe they deserve to die, we don’t.
Medicare’s Refusal of Medical Claims Continues to Outpace Private Rate
Please note that this would be the same Medicare that the Democrats are planning to shift more and more Americans onto and away from those greedy health insurance companies. While you and your ilk are cheering them on.
Why are you such a partisan asshole who clearly wants more Americans to be denied Medical coverage?
Health care didn’t need reforming. Our medical establishment has the best tech in the world. What needed reforming is the predatory pricing of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, hospitals and doctors. It doesn’t look like that happened (just like with the banksters).
Here are some bits I’ve picked up off the web:
——
The House bill would cap annual out-of-pocket medical expenses at $5,000 per individual and $10,000 per family starting in 2013. New plans offered through new employers, as well as policies sold through the proposed health insurance exchange, a marketplace where consumers can compare plans and prices, would be subject to limits.
——-
The amount of out of pocket expense must be AFTER you pay your premiums….
——-
A family making $50,000 will have to make serious sacrifices to find $10,000 [the amount you're likely to spend for an insurance policy under the new law]. But it’s better–light years better–than finding $25,000 or more [the amount you'd have to find without the new law]. It’s potentially the difference between having to give up your home, get an extra job or declare bankruptcy. Just knowing the bills that could come will be the difference between getting care you need–and skipping it, at grave risk to your health.
——-
So you’ll pay ten grand a year for “insurance” and another ten grand ‘out of pocket’? WTF??? This is reform? I think not.
Enjoy.
Don’t count on that “reform” passing just yet.
Rep. Parker Griffith switches to GOP
Of all the lies Republicans repeat with impunity, this is one of the most annoying.
Parker is just one person. And in the house all it needs is just one person. CAO will vote with us, and the Blue Dogs who voted no because of abortion will vote for the final reconciled bill now that abortion is off the table.
Parker is just one person.
So far.
CAO will vote with us
You may recall that Cao voted yes because he wasn’t the deciding vote. Now he would be.
the Blue Dogs who voted no because of abortion will vote for the final reconciled bill now that abortion is off the table.
Really? You might want to tell that to Rep. Stupak.
Let’s look at this analysis, shall we?
Guess what. They just lost that one vote.
Um, genius. Griffith voted against the health care bill. So, this party switching means absolutely zip when it comes to HCR. So please, STFU.
Gov. Paterson, Mayor Bloomberg and other NY pols: Health care bill is prescription for disaster
Sorry, people of NY. Democrats didn’t need to buy your Senators’ votes so F*** You.
Hey Zython, how many brown people do you think are going to die as a result of those 100 health clinics closing?
Stand proud, progessives!
Again, you’re sort of dumb.
First of all, Medicare had 6,948,431 claims in 2008. Most of any private insurer? 1.1 million. The entire benefit of Medicare (and to an extent, any public option-type plan) is they handle a whole lot of claims, likely for people most likely to need health care. Also, Medicare targets people over 65 – so yes, they’ll likely have a slightly higher percentage of denials because the population within it is going to have a more diverse set of medical treatments.
Of course, this isn’t even going into the facts of the relative systems. For instance, my friend had a $95 doctor visit paid for. And by paid for, they sent her a $1.20 check. Not a denial! Of course, I’m also well aware that what my insurance is far less comprehensive than Medicare.
Plus, in 2009, there’s actually two private insurers whose denial rates exceeded or mated Medicare’s, despite the fact they can screen out unwanted customers unlike Medicare.
If you look at the data a little more closely, you see that “denial” isn’t even denial, it’s a claim that’s allowed, but for which the covered amount is reduced to $0 because of coverage rules. Thank you, Medicare Parrt D doughnut hole. (And the detailed data also explains Aetna’s jump in performance: it refused payment on a smaller percentage of claims, but increased by roughly the same percentage the line items within a given claim that it reduced to zero. Just group the bills a little differently, and presto.)
Plus, another reason for the somewhat, but not really high rate of “denials” is due to the existence of “Medi-Gap” policies, which only cover claims which have already been rejected by Medicare. So, what happens sometimes, that claims that will be rejected in order to then obtain reimbursement through secondary payers, who usually require a denied claim from the primary payer before they will pay.
People with private insurance, on the other hand, usually have no other coverage. A denial from Blue Cross is usually the end of it, unless you successfully appeal. A denial from Medicare, on the other hand, may well be just the first step toward getting reimbursement from supplementary coverage. Does anyone else know more about this?
Finally, I thought in conservative eye’s, Medicare fraud is this massive problem so aren’t you happy they’re denying some claims?
Or ya’ know, they could be overblowing things to get some cash of their own.
Louisiana Purchase And Omaha Stakes
Another proud day for the “Most Ethical Congress Ever”.
And it looks like the wheelin’ and dealin’ ain’t over yet:
Nelson Says More Senators Seeking Special Treatment in Light of Nebraska Deal
Imagine my shock.
Some you guys sound like they’re gonna take your frikkin’ birthday away.
Perspective.
http://zaiusnation.blogspot.com/2009/12/progressive-case-for-passing-senate.html
All of us are anxious to see the final language from the Senate. And a final bill must ensure that the subsidies provided are sufficient to make insurance truly affordable for working families. But based on what we know, here are my top ten reasons for why progressives should support the Senate passing the bill:
1. Largest Expansion Of Coverage Since Medicare’s Creation: Thirty-one million previously uninsured Americans will have insurance.
2. Low/Middle Income Americans Will Not Go Without Coverage: For low-income Americans struggling near the poverty line, the bill represents the largest single expansion of Medicaid since its inception. Combined with subsidies for middle income families, the bill’s provisions will ensure that working class Americans will no longer go without basic health care coverage.
3. Insurance Companies Will Never Be Able to Drop or Deny You Coverage Because You Are Sick: Insurers can no longer deny coverage because of a pre-existing condition. They can’t rescind coverage or impose lifetime or annual limits on care. Significantly, the bill also ends insurer discrimination against women — who currently pay as much as 48% more for coverage than men — and gives them access preventive services with no cost sharing.
4. Lowers Premiums For Families: The Senate bill could lower premiums for the overall population by 8.4%. For the subsidized population, premiums would decrease even more dramatically. According to the CBO, “the amount that subsidized enrollees would pay for non-group coverage would be roughly 56 percent to 59 percent lower, on average than the nongroup premiums charged under current law.”
5. Invests in Keeping People Healthy: The bill creates a Prevention and Public Health Fund to expand and sustain funding for public prevention programs that prevent disease and promote wellness.
6. Insurers Can’t Offer Subprime Health Care: Insurers operating in the individual and small group markets will no longer sell subprime policies that deny coverage when illness strikes and you need it most. Everyone will be offered an essential benefits package of comprehensive benefits.
7. Helps Businesses Afford Coverage: Small employers can take advantage of large risk pools by purchasing coverage through the bill’s state-based exchanges. Employers with no more than 25 employees would receive a tax credit to help them provide coverage to their employees. The bill also establishes a temporary reinsurance program for employers providing coverage to retirees over the age of 55 who are not eligible for Medicare.
8. Improves Medicare: The bill eliminates the waste and fraud in the Medicare system, gets rid of the special subsidy to private insurers participating in Medicare Advantage and extends the life of the Medicare trust fund by 9 years. It also closes the doughnut hole that affected 3.4 seniors enrolled in Medicare Part D in 2008.
9. Reduces The Deficit: Not only would the bill expand coverage to 30 million Americans without adding to the nation debt, it would also reduce the deficit by up to $409 billion over 10 years.
10. Reduces National Health Spending: A CAP-Commonwealth Fund analysis concludes the bill could reduce overall spending by close to $683 billion over 10 years – with the potential to save families $2,500. Even the most conservative government estimates conclude that the bill would reduce national health care expenditures by at least 0.3% by 2019.
thinkprogress.org
The bill already passed the House, Dave.
And it’ll have to pass it again, Zython.
Unless the Senate passes the House version verbaitam. And Lieberman, Landreiu & Nelson have already said “No Dice” to that proposition.
Good point.
You may recall that Cao voted yes because he wasn’t the deciding vote.
I’ll bet that some Dems voted no for the same reason.
Oh, zython, you silly, silly girl. You tickle me with your discussion on important matters, you crazy, zany, delicious little rascal. I love the way you speak as if you are a senator or other important public figure. You yummy, crazy, cheek spreading, progressive, juicy little kitty. I luv it, luv it, you yummy thing. You are so smart it’s making me kinda hot….Oohh…Oh, my.
I remember Cao saying that the reason he did vote for the bill was because of the Stupak bill. Cao is a pro-lifer so I don’t know if we will have his vote if the Stupak amendment is taking out.
Translation, please? I don’t speak fucked-up-ese.
In Lieberman’s fantasy, he’s Jimmy Stewart in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.
was futile since anything they came up with would have met with a filibuster.
OH NOES!!! NOT THAT!!
well, that’s one person with anecdotal evidence. Let’s scrap the whole thing.
It all happened AFTER the Contract with America.
…virtually none of which was enacted.
Points awarded: zero.
Dave, do you win a prize or something if you post enough cut-n-paste GOP twaddle on this site?
Serious question:
Why don’t the Dems craft a proper single-payer bill* & let the repubs do their fillibusting? Then EVERY time a Dem gets asked a question about the “do nothing” congress, the can respond by explaining that Repubs want to deny healthcare for families?
*=The repubs will threaten to fillibust any bill crafted by a Dem. It’s a knee jerk response. Unless the aides to the Repubs show how the bill will enrich their friends & screw over the proles, it is instantly labelled “anti-american”.
Because a significant chunk of the DNC caucus would filibuster a proper single-payer bill as well?