Conservatives Intentional Obtuseness On Right Wing Militias
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Cenyk Uygur of The Young Turks had a hard time not having his head explode talking to this rightie Joy Tiz who tries to minimalize radical Christian terror in order to make Islamic terrorism the only terror around.
All religious extremists are bad.
Conservatives often seem pathologically unable to talk about rightie terror.
33 Responses to “Conservatives Intentional Obtuseness On Right Wing Militias”
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In every group McVeigh attempted to join, he was shunned as a wacko .. The Young Turk is wrong. Whatever is ideology might have been, McVeigh did hot belong to any group that would have encouraged his actions.
Try as you might, equivalence = -0-
Whatever is ideology might have been, McVeigh did hot belong to any group that would have encouraged his actions.
Except he was part of the militia movement that said and encouraged the same sort of anti-gov’t views. The same movement on the fringe of the teabag movement.
McVeigh received only moderate amounts of direct support in his terrorist anti-government endeavors, most particularly from Terry Nichols. But if you’re going to talk terrorist ideologies, then it’s probably worthwhile to believe Timothy McVeigh when he cited the Turner diaries as his Bible. And he personally generated much of his ideology, in his view, in his time spent at the Waco compound and the gun show circuit.
So clearly he was on the extremist individual end of an ideological, primarily right-wing radically anti-government, anti-federalist movement, but not receiving lots of direct institutional support of a larger movement, outside that movement’s media systems.
Shorter Frank: Say what you like about the tenets of Stormfront et al, but at least it’s an ethos.
I loved how she couldn’t make up her mind if she wanted to talk about Muslims in America or out in the world every time Cenyk Uygur disputed her agreement.
You can’t say someone was part of a movement, if they didn’t belong to an organizaation. I am not a part of the Conservative movement to get conservative politicians elected in New York State , because I am not even in the Conservative Party. If I went out and shot someone, or blew up a building, would you call me a member of the conservative movement?
I think it’s a good question to ask about what someone’s definition of “movement” is, but I think it’s absurd to demand that upon your orders no one consider people like Tim McVeigh part of any ‘movement’ because his membership was based mostly upon scattershot attendings of events and deep absorption of movement literature and broadcasts.
During the very time that the militia movement was building, I read their literature; I listened to their shortwave broadcasts.
If you assumed as certainly many listeners did, that the shows were serious rather than simply money-grubbing performances to sell gold and investment schemes and survivalist crap and bullshit alternative ‘cures’ like colloidal silver and other horse-shit, they were just as much trying to prompt the sort of murderous, criminal activity McVeigh finally engaged in as radical Islamic broadcasters suggesting that a good way for Muslims to work for a future Islamic state would be to look at the writings of those who urge people to practice suicide bombings.
But as to whether or not that can be used to say McVeigh was a ‘member’ of a ‘movement’ (as opposed to an accusation that he was part of a particular organization, which presumably is different that ‘a movement’), it’s a good question, and it has to do with how people use those terms, ‘movement’, and ‘member’.
So, for example, I was very clear that in my personal opinion, McVeigh was part of no institutional organization which planned acts of violence, but was very much part of a movement which urged both the need and the utility of imminent acts of violence and rebellion against a federal government against whom daily they exhorted people to rise up, given the short amount of time we had left.
Otherwise you just need to issue a command by blog poster fiat that no one can speak of such a thing as a 1990s anti-federal-government militia ‘movement’ because they weren’t all members of each others’ organizations and not everybody that supported them or shared their ideology was an organizational member.
I’ll admit I haven’t been keeping up to date about ever development in the Hasan case, but was he actually part of the “jihadist” movement in the sense that he was in contact with and taking orders from people?
You’re not a member of the Conservative Party, but you are clearly a member of the conservative movement (as I am clearly a member of the liberal/progressive movement).
Let me ask you this, Frank, can the same be said for Eric Rudolph?
“You can’t say someone was part of a movement, if they didn’t belong to an organizaation.”
Nonsense. Example: I can be part of, and a contributer to an ‘eco-friendly’ movement by personally recycling, not littering, etc., but I wouldn’t have to also join or be a member of a formal org (say, GreenPeace or the Sierra Club) to affirm that connection.
If I went out and shot someone, or blew up a building, would you call me a member of the conservative movement?
Frank, you are a member of the conservative movement. Do you not consider yourself a political conservative? You may not be a part of the capital-C Conservative party, but you are a part of the conservative movement.
Your posts just get more and more nonsensical over time. Is your brain okay?
Cons are violent by nature, hence the increased gun sales since Obama took office. How many con blogs have “Planned Parenthood exposed!” stories? They are fueling the Roederite fire. They won’t admit there’s a problem because they know most militiamen have redstate, Fox News and Instapundit in their favorite places folder
::snicker::
Frank: But, but, but he didn’t have the Teabagger ID card!?!
You lefties define the terms; then you decide who fits in the definitions. I thought the point here was that the woman was deflecting questions about right wing terrorists…
She was not there to talk about McVeigh, and there was no journalistic imperative to bring up his name (just like it is pointless to bring up the name of Eric Rudolph).
She was not trying to minimalize right wing terror; I thought she was trying to point out that it was inappropriate to the interview. I agree.
If believing the same thing as other people makes you a part of their “movement”, then McVeigh was an extreme member of an extreme group with some right wing views.
Perhaps someone could explain to me what that has to do with the fact that the Ft Hood shooter has known connections with al Qaeda, which are being downplayed?
An update on what liberals seemed to be quite sure was definitely a case of right-wing terrorism fueled primarily by Glenn Beck and Michele Bachman, but in which their interest seems curiously to have died down to almost nothing.
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Dennis, are you actually saying that he taped his hands and feet together, got naked, scrawled “FED” on his chest, and hung himself?
..
That has got to be the most retarded thing I have ever read.
There’s not much to say about the incident until the police complete their investigation.
And you wing-nut assholes still blew up Oklahoma City, regardless.
You know, Dennis, this is just further evidence… you know what, never mind. This is just too fucking retarded, I’m not even going to bother.
has known connections with al Qaeda
Really? You know this? For a fact? And I don’t mean b.s. from Fox News or the nonsense Brian Ross peddled. I mean, actual stuff.
I’m not saying anything, Zython,except the fact you guys don’t seem to give a shit about something every lib blogger on the planet was screaming about it being just another example of right-wing Eliminationatist terror and vowing to keep the pressure on the MSM to cover the story.
Now….not so much.
Fort Carson murders
I wonder if Frank knows all the secret conspiracies behind this case too… There must be a secret Christian terrorist group behind these right Frankie?
Gee I wonder why conservatives are ok with these men being nutcases and not the other one… I wonder why…
The greatest terrorist plot uncovered since 9/11 was the Tyler, TX poison gas plot, in terms of materials that were ready to go:
Link
On this one I would be more than willing to admit my surprise and wrongness if suicide ends up being the most reasonable theory. It would certainly represent quite an unusual amount of preparation by the suicider himself.
I disagree — I think Uygur was saying something he thought non-controversial, than the interviewee objected strongly at the notion that anything other than Islam could be seen as a terrorist ideology or motivation.
I don’t understand it, unless she was just dumb, and on a robotic, repetitive routine without the capability of comprehending what was said, then she could have effortlessly acknowledged Cenk’s point but then argued (pretty much as she later did) that though such other dangerous ideologies and extremists could represent a problem to be investigated that in her view of the context the right wing extremists and ideologues represented a minor threat compared to Islamic extremists and fundamentalist ideologues.
These men are nihilists, there’s nothing to be afraid of.
Yeah, Denise…and in the immediate aftermath of OKC the entire right-wing machine was calling for Gulf War 1.5. I vividly remember Les Kinsolving demanding that Libya be nuked.
If McVeigh et.al. had done that during a GOP administration, they’d have gotten away CLEAN. Fortunately, Janet Reno and the Clinton White House kept their heads and collared the actual perps.
The greatest terrorist plot uncovered since 9/11 was the Tyler, TX poison gas plot, in terms of materials that were ready to go:,
Well, that and the anthrax thing, which, incidentally, the right-wing likes to forget about. I wonder why?
So, basically, he was too right-wing extremist for right-wing extremist groups, therefore he wasn’t a right-wing extremist?
No, Frank, I’d call you a right-wing extremist.
I’m not going to say it was the work of Obama/Fed haters until the investigation is completed, but suicide seems highly unlikely.
They also like to ignore the fact that no one had to get tortured to break up that plot, and good old fashioned police work broke it up.