For all their faults both in structure and execution, mainstream religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are pretty open with followers and the outside world when it comes to what the religion is all about. In Christianity, for instance, its all there in the good book – how the earth was formed, how Jesus came to be born, what his role is, and what will happen when the world ends and what you should be doing on earth in order to get a good seat in heaven. It’s all there for you to believe or disbelieve.
But in a kooky cult like scientology, the origins are all hidden or denied. The idea that the religion is descended from space aliens hidden in a volcano is not something scientologists like to talk about an apparently when church reps are asked they quit interviews.
I’m not really into making judgements about whose religion is the bestest, but I think its a good rule of thumb that if your entire framework of life, the universe, and everything can’t stand up to the questioning of a tv reporter whose biggest claim to fame was a wacky documentary with Michael Jackson it’s probably a giant pile of crap.
Amen. $cientology exists for the sole purpose of keeping L. Ron’s wretched, plagiarized fiction in print.
Want to piss of $cientologists? Just start saying “Xenu” out loud. The Elron Hubbardites will actually cover the ears of newby cult members like parents of small children exposed to foul language.
See, they don’t tell you about Xenu until at least level three, at which point you are fully invested — in every sense of the word.
To be fair, if you really start questioning the framework of any of the major religions, they’re all pretty much full of shit.
For example: so…thousands of years ago the almighty creator of everything spoke directly to a small tribe of nomadic desert-dwellers, and decided that the MOST IMPORTANT THING EVAH was to intervene directly in every affair taking place in a radius of about 500 miles. Then he laid down some weird, vague prophecies, told everyone they were going to hell, and disappeared for a couple thousand years.
Then, weirdly, a guy showed up who EXACTLY fit the prophecies that had been lain down long ago, and were completely coincidentally read or spoken of by everyone in that area. And because he was executed, we won’t go to hell if we believe in him strongly enough. This was mankind’s salvation…
And thus God vanished for several thousand more years, deigning to appear every once in a while in toast and to speak to a crazy and/or drunk person.
Yeah, way more sensible than Scientology.
Wow. Way to reduce thousands of years of history to a “People Magazine” worthy blurb. You don’t have to believe anything you don’t want to. However, something began life- and if you believe in the Big Bang Theory, you have to have a stronger faith than any believer in Intelligent Design. The fact that the Bible predicted the birth of Jesus thousands of years before it happened- and predicted exactly how it would happen- then goes on to tell us- albeit somewhat cryptically- how this earth will end. Nothing in recorded history has ever contradicted the Bible, but you go ahead and believe what you want. That’s the beauty of faith. You have a free will. And, if you choose to ignore Christ during your life, He will ignore you in death.
if you believe in the Big Bang Theory, you have to have a stronger faith than any believer in Intelligent Design.
Can you offer any actual support for this?
Wow. Way to reduce thousands of years of history to a “People Magazine” worthy blurb.
I thought it was an admirable summation. The Bible is claptrap and nonsense when it comes to natural history. Philosophy? It’s passable.
You don’t have to believe anything you don’t want to.
Um, thanks?
However, something began life- and if you believe in the Big Bang Theory, you have to have a stronger faith than any believer in Intelligent Design.
Stupid, stupid comment. First off, it’s just wrong. Secondly, it conflates the big bang theory (e.g., the origins of the universe) and intelligent design (e.g., the origins of species). Stupid. The Big Bang did not create life, it created the universe – life came much, much later. Also, intelligent design is wacky nonscientific creationist bullshit.
The fact that the Bible predicted the birth of Jesus thousands of years before it happened- and predicted exactly how it would happen- then goes on to tell us- albeit somewhat cryptically- how this earth will end.
You read the Bible with a motive and desire to interpret it in a certain way. You’re not objective.
Nothing in recorded history has ever contradicted the Bible, but you go ahead and believe what you want.
Right. Which is why there are unicorns, and incontrovertible scientific evidence that the Earth is 6000 years old, and that dinosaurs never existed, and that people can turn into pillars of salt, or that a manmade ark can hold two of every type of animal on Earth, or that the Sun goes around the Earth…
That’s the beauty of faith. You have a free will. And, if you choose to ignore Christ during your life, He will ignore you in death.
Looking forward to being thrown in the lake of fire from this all-loving and caring God you speak of.
Idiot.
Wow, your comment actually made me LOL.
Firstly, you confuse the sciences of cosmology, physics, abiogenesis and evolution in one sentence; that has to be some kind of record. Then you commit a major logical fallacy where you claim that the fact that the written depictions of Jesus’ birth match those written thousands of years previously means that his birth fulfilled some kind of prophecy.
Uh-huh…
It couldn’t possibly be that Jesus’ followers wrote the story of his birth to match the prophecies after the fact, could it? That would make a lot less intuitive sense than that miraclezzz!!11!
Then, to add a stupid cherry on your stupid sundae, you claim “nothing in recorded history has ever contradicted the Bible.” You sincerely cannot be this dense, can you? Geology directly contradicts the account of the flood, as there is literally no evidence anywhere on earth; physics and geology point to the age of the universe greater than 6,000 years, as well as there being more planets, stars, etc. than one; genetics points out that we can’t get striped sheep by having them face a striped stick; physics points out that the world can’t just stop all of the sudden; genealogy points out that human beings actually originated in Africa, not the Middle East; etc. etc.
And the New Testament is contradicted by other non-canon material like the Gnostic Gospels.
So yeah, actually, the Bible’s basically like a really long-winded children’s book, and only intellectual midgets would take it seriously.
Damien, you forgot the other bit. This guy decided to mainstream his religion with the ruling empire of the day, so he added a load of crap to the book (in contradiction to some of the other bits), and turned the death of the second beardy guy into the basis for persecution, whilst playing down the empire role.
Later on, everybody decided to forget one of the contributors, because his stuff about forgiveness, not judging and wealth were a bit too hard.
All religions start off as cults. The idea that some poor carpenter’s son from a pissant town like Nazareth was actually the son of god was just as radical at the time as the Xenu stuff.
But I’ll grant that there’s a lot of moral edification to be found in the teachings of Jesus — turn away from material wealth, care for the poor and the sick, don’t embrace anger. In Hubbard, not so much.
But claiming you’re the son of God is plain wacky no matter when you do it.
Actually there really is nothing in the Jesus mythology that did not appear in previous religions in the region. The claims made by early Christians where really was not that unusual.
The Messiah cults weren’t unusual relative to themselves, but to the Pharisees and the Romans they presented a bit of a problem.
I assume this was prompted by the letter where directory Paul Haggis quit the group. It includes a link to some great footage where two of the leading Scientology admins admit to a lot of stuff going on in the organization that they lied about before. http://www.movieline.com/2009/10/paul-haggis-renounces-scientology.php
I think you guys are slightly missing my point. Its possible to poke holes into any religion, but here’s the difference: if a priest was in a tv interview and the interviewer asked “so, when you die, if you’re good, you ascend above the clouds to some nether region where a guy with a long list of people checks to see if your name is there in order to let you in?” the priest wouldn’t storm out of the room like the scientology people. The priest would probably just say “Yes”.
Mainstream religions are packed to the gills with all sorts of flaws, but at least they largely aren’t about secret levels open only to the rich willing to pony up.
‘…if a priest was in a tv interview and the interviewer asked “so, when you die, if you’re good, you ascend above the clouds to some nether region where a guy with a long list of people checks to see if your name is there in order to let you in?” the priest wouldn’t storm out of the room like the scientology people. The priest would probably just say “Yes”.’
Well, without even belonging to his church, I’d hope the priest wouldn’t say quite that. If he’s a Jesuit, he certainly won’t. I don’t know exactly what he’d say, and Jesuits are better than I am at this sort of thing, but it would probably be on the lines of “Let me explain why that’s a serious misunderstanding of what the Church teaches, even though the elements of what you say are very like some of our teachings.”
Which, as you say, is waaay above what you can get from Scientologists. Maybe they need to go out and hire some Jesuits.
Porlock +1. Pax tecum, frater.
Dude, I’m pretty sure that the rep from Scientology knows the mocking (justifiably) that his church gets from the media and average Americans.
If, as I one day hope, all religions get the kind of stifled giggle treatment that Scientology gets, I would be surprised if more representatives don’t walk off rather than talk about their faiths.
Hell, I’d like to hear a reasonably intelligent rep of Christianity explain how over 70% of the stupid, stupid American population actually believes in angels. Then let the subtle mockery begin, and let’s see how long the interview lasts.
Oliver Willis says:
I think you guys are slightly missing my point. Its possible to poke holes into any religion, but here’s the difference: if a priest was in a tv interview and the interviewer asked “so, when you die, if you’re good, you ascend above the clouds to some nether region where a guy with a long list of people checks to see if your name is there in order to let you in?” the priest wouldn’t storm out of the room like the scientology people. The priest would probably just say “Yes”.
No. Different sects are all over the map with different answers to the question you just posed — among many others. None of these different sects can even agree on what their own dumb book says. If you actually sit there and pick apart the dumb shit that is in the Bible, the way Martin Bashir did to the Scientology guy, a lot of church apologists WILL storm out of the room, or have a hissy fit. Look at Bill Donohue having a stroke any time Christopher Hitchens farts.
Yes, Scientology is retarded, but that’s as far as I go in agreement with this post. It’s definitely NO better than Christianity, and truthfully, it’s not nearly as harmful as Christianity is. That’s because Scientology doesn’t have this false veneer of respectability like Christianity does, that prevents us from making fun of it. We can mock Scientology all day long and rightly so, but Christianity deserves the same mockery, and yet this is considered unacceptable in our society, as your post demonstrates. Scientology is a silly joke, but Christianity is a dangerous virus.
The Xenu story isn’t any dumber than the Jesus story; at least it was written by someone who was a professional writer, and not a bunch of delusional sheepherders in the desert, with no understanding of science or cosmology, contradicting each other every third paragraph.
Mainstream religions are packed to the gills with all sorts of flaws, but at least they largely aren’t about secret levels open only to the rich willing to pony up.
Actually, that’s exactly what they are about. Ever hear of tithing?
Scientology isn’t a religion it’s a business.
Kinda like Catholicism.
The Church of the Latter Day Saints is Scientology with a hundred years’ more experience. Of the two, I would say that uneducated Joseph Smith was the better writer.
To paraphrase Churchill: all religions are the worst form of religion, except for Scientology.
While I agree with the general assertion here that all formal religious dogma is pretty much ridiculous bullshit, Scientology deserves a special brand of venom. Not for what they believe so much (hey, it’s America, we’re all free to believe whatever crazy-ass shit we want), but because of the despicable tactics they employ against people who criticize them, and especially against apostates. I can’t think of any other religion the hires private detectives to spy on people, and has whole branches dedicated to playing Gestapo and ruining lives. Just google “Scientology” and “fair game” if you don’t know what I’m talking about.
You stole the words right from my mouth.
I saw the Nightline piece. It’s a shaky religion, even compared with the flimsy foundations for all religions. The marketing plan of bringing in celebs was smart, up to a point. But the representative of the cult walked out when the interviewer merely mentioned the word ‘volcano’ in a question.
‘We want to spread our religion but we refuse to talk about its basic tenets’ is not much of a strategy for growth.
I will not stand by and watch religion be insulted by you heathens…
It’s my turn now – just for fun read Leviticus! Chapters 1 through 6 or 7 are all about how to hold a barbecue for your Invisible Spaghetti Monster (honest no shit) – most of the next dozen or so chapters are about who you should stone to death – GREAT STUFF! Interestingly queers should be stoned to death BUT you can’t eat shellfish or rabbits. Great news if you’re a bunny!
Mainstream religions may have some troubling doctrines, but people are at least able to live normal lives for the most part with only modest demands on their time and money. Groups like Scientology demand all your time and all your life-not just the professionals, but laypersons as well. A person who converts from Catholicism to say, Episcopalianism is for the most part left alone after they have made the change. They may even say their previous associations were in error-and the Church leaves them alone. Not Scientology, and not a lot of other cult groups. The fact that you have changed your mind is considered betrayal of a sort that demands harassment or worse.
Scientology has earned its special odium with the harrassment of ex-members, the financial ripping off of families, the denial of medical care, and its abundant lack of concern for anyone outside of it.
Once again, I have to ask how exactly what you described is unlike any of the other major religions?
Hey, just for fun, let’s talk about the Catholic church! Dunno if you heard about the former Catholic Italian comedian who was almost thrown in jail after mocking the pope? No? Well she was almost imprisoned for 20 years for calling the pope gay, essentially.
Hey, weird how the Catholic church demands tithing, donation, collections, and a host (pun intended) of other costs, especially if you want to move up in the church.
You want to talk about denial of medical care? There are millions of people dying in Africa right now because a pompous billionaire douchebag says that condoms do nothing to combat the spread of AIDS. Who was said douchebag? I’ll give you two guesses.
Abundant lack of concern for anyone outside of it? I have yet to see a Catholic charity that was not explicitly Catholic, and when they were asked politely to stop trying to convert Muslims in Sudan, they pulled out instead.
Yeah, waaaaaaay better than Scientology.
Look, I in no way want to be construed as defending Scientology; it’s a stupid, expensive and ludicrous waste of time for everyone involved in it. But I also want people to stop thinking that any religion is good, because they’re not.
Whether you’re a Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslims, or miscellaneous, you are just as stupid and deluded as the followers of Scientology, and as a certain shyster once said, “take a look at the log in your own eye before commenting on the speck in your brother’s.”
Carol(Aquariusmoon) says:
Mainstream religions may have some troubling doctrines, but people are at least able to live normal lives for the most part with only modest demands on their time and money.
Sure they are, as long as they consciously decide to ignore the actual crazy tenets of religion, and pick and choose what parts they want to follow, the parts which don’t offend 21st Century societal standards.
That’s not ‘being religious’, that’s being ‘pseudo-religious’ and a phony. The real Christians are the Fred Phelps, wacko racist homophobic Christians. Everyone else is doin’ it wrong.
Scientology has earned its special odium with the harrassment of ex-members, the financial ripping off of families, the denial of medical care, and its abundant lack of concern for anyone outside of it.
Scientologists are amateurs when it comes to harrassment of ex-members, compared to Christians. After Scientology burns hundreds of thousands of people at the stake over the next thousand years for not being Scientologists, we can compare the two.
For the record, I am not defending Scientology, I am just amazed by the claim that Christianity is any better than Scientology.