Kooks on the march
Launched in March by Las Vegan Stewart Rhodes, Oath Keepers bills itself as a nonpartisan group of current and retired law enforcement and military personnel who vow to fulfill their oaths to the Constitution.
More specifically, the group’s members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities. By refusing the latter order, the Oath Keepers hope to prevent cities from becoming “giant concentration camps,” a scenario the 44-year-old Rhodes says he can envision happening in the coming years.
It’s a Cold War-era nightmare vision with a major twist: The occupying forces in this imagined future are American, not Soviet.
“The whole point of Oath Keepers is to stop a dictatorship from ever happening here,” Rhodes, a former Army paratrooper and Yale-trained lawyer, said in an interview with the Review-Journal. “My focus is on the guys with the guns, because they can’t do it without them.
Yeah…. this will end well.
“pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful”
Funny, because that’s the very definition of the term “unlawful.”
All military and peace officers should absolutely refuse to obey illegal orders. That situation only occurs, though, when the Supreme Court says something is illegal but the executive branch does it anyway. Soldiers and cops don’t get to decide what is constitutional and what isn’t. If their conscience prevents them from carrying out a lawful order, they can always resign.
Of course they are hallucinating/projecting: unlike the last administration, this one isn’t claiming that the commander-in-chief power of the executive gives them the right to disobey any law they choose in wartime (which we obviously and sadly are still in). I wonder where these guys were when the Bush administration was making those claims.
I wonder where these guys were when the Bush administration was making those claims.
I don’t know, but if I had to wager, I’d bet on labeling anti-Iraq Invasion people as dirty fucking hippies who hate America, burning Dixie Chicks CDs, and noshing on delicious Freedom Fries.
AMEN! Now let’s bring the troops home- we need them in D.C.
In honor of the late great Patrick Swayze, Wolverines!
Keepers of the Oats.
I wonder if a Yale trained lawyer, an ex military man, who is obviously a patriot has a better handle on this then kth?
Sounds like a fine group of Americans. They claim to be nonpartisan and probably are from an active political perspective but I doubt they trend Democrat or liberal.
They want to prevent the cities from being turned into “giant concentration camps”? Odd- with their attitudes and beliefs, aren’t they the ones who think that the cities are full of people who should be rounded up and shot? If folks like them would actually overthrow the government, wouldn’t “turning the cities into giant concentration camps” be one of the first likely actions by them?
Sounds like a fine group of Americans.
Amused, this Yale trained lawyer should know that this kind of talk:
is borderline treason.
How the fuck is this idiot going to know that the American people have “decided” it’s time for a violent overthrow of the government?
When Glenn Beck says so?
They’re morons.
Why do I get the feeling that these aging, white weekend warriors probably wouldn’t last ten minutes in any major American city without breaking down in fear at the sight of so many non-whites?
Sorry, but American cities are doing just fine without help from people in the sticks. The jobs, the capital, the culture, and the spirit of America come from our cities. And the country is great and beautiful and all, but New York and LA contribute more to America than many of the Red States of the 2008 election.
Fafaroo,
You’d have a hard time hanging a charge of treason on these stalwart defenders of the Constitution unless they actively took up arms against the country. It doesn’t appear that barring an actual revolution they’re going to do that. You could make a better case for giving aid and comfort to our enemies against Jane Fonda, John Kerry, or quite possibly Jack Murtha if treason is on your mind.
Jaim,
Once again you border on the ridiculous. Where do you get these flights of fancy.
“white weekend warriors probably wouldn’t last ten minutes in any major American city without breaking down in fear at the sight of so many non-whites?”
Did you actually read the article? Who do you think police interact with? What do you suppose paratroopers do for a living after they jump out of the plane? You don’t have much confidence in our military if you think they’d only last 10 minutes in the big city. What a dolt.
I’m not quite sure why you included your rural/urban theory but it shows you’re hopelessly detached from reality and helplessly ignorant about and alienated from many of your fellow Americans. Pretentious doesn’t even begin to describe your opinions. You’re just a young pup who’s learned to bark, Jaim. Full of vim and vigor but foolish, still ignorant, and poorly trained, tearing up the flowerbeds in the backyard. LOL
I’m a fan of rural America. But let’s not pretend that without our big cities, industrial centers, and research hubs (i.e, universities) we’d be a quarter of the country we are today. And we certainly don’t need any help from these McVeigh types.
Haha. So few words, but so true.
I can’t help but think a professional coach or a mentor of his told him it might not be a bad idea for him to get out of the country for a while; that he probably tore up too many flower beds to advance any further.
Dennis, as long as you keep up with the ungrounded personal shit, I’ll continue to remind everyone that you’re a fucking coward that backed down from an offer to have me beat your ass down in person. The moment I accepted your offer to meet you in person, you chickened out like the miserable little pre-dawn, all day troll that you are.
Just shut the fuck up, OK? “Professional Mentor”? What does that even mean?
And again, if you keep bringing up my career I will continue to ask if you even have a job.
Go die in a fire you failed human being. Or feel free to buy a ticket to Seoul so I can pound your sorry face into hamburger.
The “Oath Keepers” didn’t care that Bush has concentration camps in multiple countries in the War on Islam
These “Oath Keepers” are anti-American scum, just like Dennis and AO.
Jaim, let me tell you about the rural areas:
You know where the “ground pounders” come from? The rural areas.
You know where the snipers come from? The rural areas.
You know where the Spec Ops guys come from? The rural areas.
The veterans from the rural areas would make mince meat of those urban pussies who, if they ever even went in the services, were cooks and clerks, in a New York Minute.
Dammit, Jaim, quit shooting from the lip! Read a book, get some life experience, or ask questions.
I’m not worried about these guys. These are guys who will bitch and moan about whatever Glenn Beck or Rush is crying about this week, have a few beers, and then go back home. They’ll get in the teabagger groups, wave some signs, and get mad. Then, in about 2 years or so, you’ll see the ambitious members of this group start infighting for authority, especially over who has control of the money. The group will start dissolving, losing the less activist members on one hand, and then internal frictions will shoot off their own splinter groups. The FBI will have infiltrated them fairly well at this point, and the second they step out of line, we’ll see another story on page B-6 about how another domestic terrorist group was discovered and arrested. And in 5 years, they might rank a Trivia question, but that’s about it.
Where do I join up ??
The veterans from the rural areas would make mince meat of those urban pussies
Wow, that’s some top notch prick waving. I can only think of Chris Rock now- you honestly think these midwest militias can take over a damn country? These guys wouldn’t last a day trying to take over South Baltimore.
Frank, if these rebels ever did anything more aggressive than walking away from their posts, they would most have to fear their ex-fellow soldiers, the vast majority of whom love their country enough to eagerly put down such a mutiny with extreme prejudice.
BTW, if Obama were to suspend elections for any reason, I would take up arms myself (though I’d have to buy a rifle and learn how to operate it). But there isn’t a glimmer of a shadow of a reason to suspect he intends anything of the sort. Anyone who thinks otherwise, given the utter lack of evidence, is a lunatic, Yale-educated or not.
Have any of you liberal, (read COMMIE bastards), read anything at all about the Constitution ?? The oath includes, ‘to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL Enemies both foreign and domestic…..’ Bunny-ears Obonga, the Congress, the Senate, and the Supreme Court have almost all turned traitors against the USA and her people.
We the people have every right, even the DUTY to expose and to overthrow these enemies who are hell-bent on destroying the Constitution and our beloved country. Sign me up !!
Obonga
Careful there, Rumple Stiltskin, your agenda is showing.
Rumple Stiltskin, your beef isn’t with the President, Congress, or the Supreme Court, but with the vast, thronging, overwhelming majorities of your fellow citizens who elected them. You may certainly disagree with your countrymen, and urge them to vote differently in the future.
But you cannot love your country, and yet believe that a government elected by comfortable majorities is illegitimate. If you do, you are a traitor. There is no other world for such a person.
Indeed pretending he doesn’t know what a bong is or that Obama doesn’t either.
The veterans from the rural areas would make mince meat of those urban pussies who, if they ever even went in the services, were cooks and clerks, in a New York Minute.
Fail, again.
You know where the “ground pounders” come from? The rural areas.
Do you know where all the meth in the US is manufactured and much of it used? The rural areas. Do you know where the job situation is so desperate that a hitch in Iraq looks like an improvement? The rural areas.
The veterans from the rural areas would make mince meat of those urban pussies
Not exactly my experience from 40 years ago, but the “urban” GIs definitely took all the “rural” soldiers’ money in games of poker, dice and “In Between.” The great thing about a rural soldier was that as soon as he got paid, he would be back to give it away to the same guys. This characteristic helps to explain their voting patterns.
“Jaim, let me tell you about the rural areas:
You know where the “ground pounders” come from? The rural areas.
You know where the snipers come from? The rural areas.
You know where the Spec Ops guys come from? The rural areas.”
Where does most of the money that pays for those guys and their training and their equipment come from?
“The veterans from the rural areas would make mince meat of those urban pussies who, if they ever even went in the services, were cooks and clerks, in a New York Minute.”
Ok, once you’re done with that, good luck trying to keep maintaining the world’s strongest fighting force with the GDP of the rural areas.
Repack : If there is rioting in the cities , they won’t be playing poker in Best Buy.
And you were in a different army than I was … We were all in cliques — city white, city black, rural white, rural black, hispanics , and “everyone else”
Hmmm…most of the veterans I know come from the urban areas, but that’s probably because I live in a city.
Ah, a few years ago these guys were taking potshots at Mexicans from their lawnchairs set up in the Rio Grande, now they’re a bunch of would-be Mcveighs and, no doubt, Oswalds (or more accurately would-be John Wilkes Booths). Funny how these guys only get concerned about the government’s power when a Democrat is in office. No doubt they’ll make good Sturm abteilung for the Sarah 2012 campaign though.
More specifically, the group’s members, which number in the thousands,
Thousands? Malarkey.
pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities.
Well, allright! I fully appreciate that these whackaloons will never obey an order to blockade American cities. Thanks very much, patriots!!
I fully expect they shall also refuse to obey any orders that require them to build a bridge to the moon or eat all the uranium in the U.S. aresenal.
Sounds too much like the Promise Keepers.
The group’s Web site, http://www.oathkeepers.org, features videos and testimonials in which supporters compare President Barack Obama’s America to Adolf Hitler’s Germany. They also liken Obama to England’s King George III during the American Revolution.
Here we go again…cant these people think of something new for once? At least try and be creative. How about Genghis Khan?
One member, in a videotaped speech at an event in Washington, D.C., calls Obama “the domestic enemy the Constitution is talking about.”
He is the One, don’t forget it.
Rhodes, a former firearms instructor, said he easily could have started Oath Keepers during the Bush administration, but his focus during those years was first on getting his law degree and then volunteering on the 2008 presidential campaign of Texas Congressman Ron Paul, a libertarian Republican in whose office Rhodes worked during the 1990s.
so when Blackwater security teams were taking guns from private citizens during Katrina, he was cool with that. Ron Paul Evol!
What Rhodes terms “the rise of executive privilege” during the post-9/11 years of the Bush presidency will in his opinion only accelerate with Obama in office. What’s worse, he said, is that “gun-hating extremists” now control the White House.
How many gun owners in the US have been victim to the great Obama gun seizure, please step forward?
Funny how these guys only get concerned about the government’s power when a Democrat is in office
That ought to tell you something, but of course, it doesn’t.
I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys. Using the amount of thought you usually apply to important “big picture” issues, you probably summed it up as “Obama’s black” , when you read the headline.
“More specifically, the group’s members, which number in the thousands, pledge to disobey orders they deem unlawful, including directives to disarm the American people and to blockade American cities.”
Okay~….Only a few thousands? Surely they know they will need at least 50 to 150 million to take over the United States since there are 305 million people and counting, plus millions in the military.
Also who will decide which laws are unlawful? What if some American citizens took up arms to fight against them? Would they disarm them even though that’s unlawful in their eyes?
I wonder if they really thought though this plan of taking over America.
‘You could make a better case for giving aid and comfort to our enemies against Jane Fonda, John Kerry, or quite possibly Jack Murtha if treason is on your mind.’
Kerry and Murtha, decorated war veterans are ‘enemies’ and treasonous?
That’s just insane, you know that right?
‘I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys.’
I’ll take a stab; a Black President and a Democrat majority Congress?
Gee, Jr, I never would have thought of that…
“you probably summed it up as “Obama’s black” , when you read the headline.” Frank DiSalle (see above)
Apparently, no sooner was Pres Obama elected than did millions upon millions of Republicans turn into racists.
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
Here is how riduculous you sound.
I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys.
No, treason isn’t a regular line of thought for people on the left the way it has been for the Bircher wing of the right.
You misunderstood me, Oliver. I meant that 1) You couldn’t imagine what might motivate people to suspect that their rights might be taken away, in part, because of reason 2) Since you expect inerrancy and nothing benevolence from the government, you can’t imagine yourselves involved in an effort to overthrow a government that does what you think is everything you want it to.
That also happens to be why — I think — you have reasoned (if that’s what you call it) that opponents of Pres Obama could only oppose him because he is black — what other reason could there be?
You’d have a hard time hanging a charge of treason on these stalwart defenders of the Constitution unless they actively took up arms against the country. It doesn’t appear that barring an actual revolution they’re going to do that.
Stalwart defenders of the Constitution who are prepared to overthrow the Constitutional government of the United States should enough Glenn Beck viewers sign some petition.
Awesome.
@Frank-”1) You couldn’t imagine what might motivate people to suspect that their rights might be taken away”.
Funny how these people weren’t so afraid when this very thing DID happen under a Republican President, but yet they they find this President somehow more dangerous than his counter part.
I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys.
You’re right, Frank. I can’t imagine what motivates these guys to talk seriously about the overthrow of the duly elected government of the United States.
“‘to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL Enemies both foreign and domestic…..’”
What if YOU are deemed a domestic enemy? Any thoughts on that? Or are you going to decide who the enemies are over a glass of lite beer at the local pub?
Would they disarm them even though that’s unlawful in their eyes?
Cj just nailed the fatal flaw in this plan: The first time they had to disarm a fellow American who didn’t want to overthrow the government all their heads would explode. End of revolution.
There is a word for someone who would substitute his own or anyone else’s personal opinion of what is or isn’t constitutional for the duly considered collective judgment of the lawfully elected and appointed officials of all three branches of “a government of the people, by the people, and for the people” — and that word is TRAITOR! Moreover, where were these courageous self-styled patriots while Bush and Cheney were stretching, twisting, and otherwise perverting the rightful constitutional powers of the Executive Branch into something that even Pol Pot and Idi Amin would have found perfectly adequate for maintaining their infamously brutal tyrannies?
So…
Who gets to command this “army” and how does he/she get the job? Who is going to enforce discipline among people who don’t believe in an organized society?
The way I see it, the “army of revolution” would break down into roughly n-1 factions, with n representing the number of people in the group. They would kill each other before they got around to the normal people.
I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys.
We’re narrowing it down. We have eliminated the desire for a constitutionally elected government as one of the possibilities.
Treason is still on the list.
@fafaroo-”Cj just nailed the fatal flaw in this plan: The first time they had to disarm a fellow American who didn’t want to overthrow the government all their heads would explode. End of revolution.”
It’ll be like the secret weapon in “Mars Attack”…..the weapon of contradiction. *BOOM*
Shh~ keep this under wrap till the time comes.
I know why you lefties do not possess the mindset to be suspicious of an all powerful government. When you thought that Uncle Sam might hear you calling your local weed dealer, you were up in arms, but now that your government threatens to raise the price of transportation in three different ways, and hijack the healthcare system to “fix” it, and join in international efforts to hobble our industry and trade, you couldn’t care less.
And the people who fear that these things might ruin this country – why, they’re just traitors or(more laughably) racists.
As I have said before, conservatives understand liberals much, much better than liberals understand conservatives.
I know why you lefties do not possess the mindset to be suspicious of an all powerful government. When you thought that Uncle Sam might hear you calling your local weed dealer, you were up in arms, but now that your government threatens to raise the price of transportation in three different ways, and hijack the healthcare system to “fix” it, and join in international efforts to hobble our industry and trade, you couldn’t care less.
And the people who fear that these things might ruin this country – why, they’re just traitors or(more laughably) racists.
As I have said before, conservatives understand liberals much, much better than liberals understand conservatives.
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Same old bullshit from the interweb’s biggest manure salesman. Don’t you ever have anything new to say, Frank?
Frank, there’s a difference between being suspicious of a government that taps private communications without notice, and one that openly debates policy. The people who fear open debate on infrastructure spending will ruin their country to the point of gathering to prepare for an armed insurrection against a government democratically elected by a nice cushy margin are over-reacting at best. At worst, they are a threat, just like the militias were a threat in the 90’s.
I don’t consider these guys a threat, personally. I think this Rhodes guy will make some quick cash, maybe even make a run for public office. I see the luster on this Oath Keepers group turning a light grey in about 2 years, and people dropping out through disinterest. Either that, or some of the recruits will glom on to the movement, try to push their way into a position of authority, start a nasty round of infighting, and break off into inconsequential splinter groups. Either way, these guys will be tagged like a deer by some variation of law enforcement, and watched for any sign of trigger happiness.
So, Promise Keeper ending, or Minutemen – take your pick.
@Frank- Yea fixing health care is just like being thrown in a prison on a island while not being able to have access to a lawyer or due process. Or having our phone or emails be wiretapped without a warrant, or having a President that feels that he doesn’t need “congressional authorization” to do things he wants to do.
One question what rights of yours have been taken away since President Obama came to office?
CJ : exactly the same rights as were taken away during the entire Bush administration. None.
And if you even think that, for a moment, I care about those guys in Guantanamo, forget it. If it stops one terrorist from joining up, if it gets us one item of information, they can stay there forever, if it means there will never be another 9/11.
I guess you don’t remember it: 8 years ago, September, and Pres Obama has turned it into Adopt – a – Highway …
Sure, Mambo. Here’s a new one : THat “Everyone who doesn’t like Pres Obama is a racist”? It’s approaching maximum lame-itude
And if you even think that, for a moment, I care about those guys in Guantanamo, forget it. If it stops one terrorist from joining up, if it gets us one item of information, they can stay there forever, if it means there will never be another 9/11.
Shorter Frank: “Fuck human rights! I’m a scared little child who feels more secure knowing that the bad mans can’t hurt me! Fuck due process! Fuck habeas corpus! Fuck everyone in Gitmo, even if they’re innocent. Not that we’ll ever know, because we won’t try them in court! Ha ha ha ha ha….”
8 years ago, September, and Pres Obama has turned it into Adopt – a – Highway …
What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Answer: Nothing.
THat “Everyone who doesn’t like Pres Obama is a racist”? It’s approaching maximum lame-itude
I don’t think anyone has said that everyone who doesn’t like Obama is a racist. It just so happens that racism in this country is not dead, and that race is a factor in why many people do oppose Obama. Sole factor? No. But the way you conservatives talk, it’s as though nothing is ever racially-charged, ever ever ever. And that’s just not true.
It’s exhausting going over the same bullshit, day after day after day, with you guys. It doesn’t matter how logical, how reasonable the argument is – if it goes against your preconceived ideological notions and your loyalty to your party, you refuse to listen to it. It’s fucking tiring.
(cue the conservative trolls with ill-thought-out comments about the irony of my last statement).
@Frank-”CJ : exactly the same rights as were taken away during the entire Bush administration. None.”
My right to privacy was taken away. Under Bush’s Patriot Act they wiretapped peoples calls in and out of the US. I have family in different parts of the world so they probably over heard my conversations with people.
If it stops one terrorist from joining up, if it gets us one item of information, they can stay there forever, if it means there will never be another 9/11.
These dipshits didn’t say shit when the Bush administration was engaging in unconstitutional detention and torture.
Now they’re on the ready to over throw a constitutionally elected government for wanting to provide affordable health care.
You’re not patriots, Frank. You’re buffoons.
“If it stops one terrorist from joining up”
It’s had the opposite outcome.
“if it gets us one item of information”
It might, but at what cost to your country?
“if it means there will never be another 9/11.”
Gitmo won’t do that either. It can’t on any level.
And if you even think that, for a moment, I care about those guys in Guantanamo, forget it. If it stops one terrorist from joining up, if it gets us one item of information, they can stay there forever, if it means there will never be another 9/11.
Even the innocent ones, eh?
You make me ill.
Wow.
Can someone explain to me if it really is ALL Americans that are stuck in a fixed two party linear political paradigm? Both parties (really one party) prop up the candidate their conventions want to see elected through a voting system that does not allow any other political party a chance to run, while the whole way both sides are funded by lobbyists and banksters, and you Americans are arguing about which “side” really stands for democracy and constitution? No wonder the whole rest of the world things you all have the reasoning abilities of a common ground squirrel. Your all being used and laughed at by the small circle at the top who holds the real power as you squabble and divide amongst yourselves
Evolve please
That ought to tell you something, but of course, it doesn’t.
That they’re incredibly paranoid of anyone that doesn’t agree with their agenda? We already knew that.
I am sure none of you lefties could even possibly imagine what motivates these guys.
Hatred of gays, blacks, and women would be my guess.
Apparently, no sooner was Pres Obama elected than did millions upon millions of Republicans turn into racists.
Personally, I go by a simple parameter: IF their whining about Obama mirrors the whining about Clinton, it’s not racist. The fact remains that they’re sore losers.
You misunderstood me, Oliver. I meant that 1) You couldn’t imagine what might motivate people to suspect that their rights might be taken away, in part, because of reason 2) Since you expect inerrancy and nothing benevolence from the government, you can’t imagine yourselves involved in an effort to overthrow a government that does what you think is everything you want it to.
You know, this is the line of reasoning that gives us suicide bombers in Israel.
and hijack the healthcare system to “fix” it
…Look, if you want me to link the articles again, just ask. Don’t beat around the bush.
And if you even think that, for a moment, I care about those guys in Guantanamo, forget it. If it stops one terrorist from joining up, if it gets us one item of information, they can stay there forever, if it means there will never be another 9/11.
By that logic, shouldn’t we lock up everyone in the country, since they might commit a crime at some point in the future. Or does that not hold to white people?
Far be it from me to disturb your fantasies, but there has not been a reasonable comment since mine. I just told you honestly how I felt about putting terrorists in prison. As for how “innocent” they are – tell me which ones you think were wrongfully imprisoned, and why, and I will join the effort to free them.
Until then, it’s war they’ve asked for; it’s war they got.
As for how “innocent” they are – tell me which ones you think were wrongfully imprisoned, and why, and I will join the effort to free them.
Here, Frank.
And then there’s Mohammed Jawad, who was twelve years old when he was sent to Gitmo:
Now, it’s a bit late to join in on the campaign to free these two young me, but I’m sure we can find some other cases for you to work on. Or perhaps you can contribute something to an education fund to help them get back on their feet.
When would you like to start?
‘Apparently, no sooner was Pres Obama elected than did millions upon millions of Republicans turn into racists.’
Actually, that only gave them the opportunity to expose themselves openly.
‘Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?’
Coming from the likes of you, that is a badge of honor.
As for your link, perhaps you can enlighten us as to why no other President in history has been accused of being a foreign born agent of Islam/Socialism/Communism/Fascism?
Are you really saying that racism has played NO part in the demonization of Obama by the Right?
‘I know why you lefties do not possess the mindset to be suspicious of an all powerful government’
You mean a government that would subvert the rule of domestic law, contravene international jurisprudence, invade and destroy a country that posed no threat, illegally detain and torture people for years with no evidence of criminality, co-opt elections and lie their asses off for 8 years?
Is that the all powerful government you fear?
Relax; it’s been banished to the dustbin of history.
‘And the people who fear that these things might ruin this country – why, they’re just traitors or(more laughably) racists.’
Supporting the administration that actually did ruin the country is not a strong position from which to accuse the next administration of doing exactly the opposite but achieving the same result.
‘As I have said before, conservatives understand liberals much, much better than liberals understand conservatives.’
Liberals understand that Conservatives support war based on lies, foreign policy based on fear, domestic policy based on hate and debate based on ignorance.
The GOP is doing absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise.
Far be it from me to disturb your fantasies, but there has not been a reasonable comment since mine.
C’mon, Frank. Don’t be silly. Everyone here knows that you’ve never posted a reasonable comment.
CB2 – The two American parties are what would be coalition governments in parliamentary systems. I don’t really see the major tangible difference. You’ve still got leeway within them to produce a different sort of candidate, even if (and I’m guessing with this) they probably trend towards moderation a bit more than a parliament system.
Parth – A parliamentary system allows through its own laws rival parties through direct democracy to gain seats and voice in parliament in percentage of seating. American system makes it financially impossible for parties to even get off the ground at the lowest levels (voting booth). Lobbyists hold the real power in your system and bankroll the two factions to greatness to influence political direction which takes priority over the concerns of the people. At it’s core, the US’s monetary policy is governed by a private cartel of bankers that are not accountable at all (no democracy) Whoever controls the money controls the country. If the people finally get mad enough, they throw out their PR guy (president – commander and chief who has no say in monetary affairs) and replace him. Sadly, promises are broken, the war continues, and the machine of war never falters, because it’s what the banksters want.
I still chuckle at the irony – now America would have been better off had it not rebelled against England and stayed commonwealth – and enjoyed far more modern liberty than they do now
But continue to rattle amongst yourselves – collect all those nuts!
“I still chuckle at the irony – now America would have been better off had it not rebelled against England and stayed commonwealth – and enjoyed far more modern liberty than they do now.”
Careful, you’re rattling AO’s cage. Clinging … he awakes to a new world order.
Not to mention following your own laws. Your government tramples on your own binding constitution by both parties and everyone breaks down into a case of ADHD musical chairs gone infectious/pandemic. Bush introduces Patriot Act and Obama re-enacts it, both continue troop deployment and each supposed “voting cycle” you all switch sides on the issues depending on who won the soap opera. At least here in Canada our own government actually respects and bowes below our charter of rights and freedoms with our inherited English Bill of Rights that yiour ancestors decided to give up
Take a few steps back from the whole mess, look at the whole picture, and you might actually begin to understand the state of affairs
Here, although most of you will carry on with the simplistic partisan soap opera, at least one of you down there has the right ideas…
learn something from him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpWK21rp_UA
LOL,
Those oath keepers are most likely better patriots and better Americans than all of the naysayers commenting here. Not much horsepower in the rebuttels. Fairly normal for the Canucks to make some irrelevant comments about freedom and the lack there of. Canada is a little too PC to have unfettered freedom of speech and a little too limp wristed to allow an armed citizenry, instead it’s a land of subjects who had to wait for freedom to be given to them.
LOL I see Jaim is a real tough guy. So tough he has been foolish enough to threaten someone in writing over the internet.
“backed down from an offer to have me beat your ass down in person.”
“Go die in a fire you failed human being.”
” so I can pound your sorry face into hamburger.”
Wow Jaim you sure a scary badass. So scary that if a dangerous irrational person such as yourself was to confront me I would, as any prudent man, feel that my person was threatened, my life was in danger, and would be justified in defending myself to the full extent of the law.
Beware the irrational Internet tough guy! It’s hard to believe that someone that irrational can erupt in such impotent rage and still have a job around children. Time for a little anger management assessment and a big chill pill.
…and a little too limp wristed to allow an armed citizenry …”
Lovely as usual, Amusing.
…and a little too limp wristed to allow an armed citizenry …”
Haw haw, librulz are all fags! Good one!
Actually, Canada does allow an armed citizenry. We are just sensible enough to want our fellow citizens background checked and safety trained first before they are allowed to buy firearms – hence why we have 1/100th the crime and homicide rate of the US. Once your licensed you can buy just about anything you want. It helps to do your homework first before throwing out accusations
LOL,
Once again the Canucks have to ask “Pretty please may we have some rights?”
I wonder what else might lead to this country having a higher homicide rate?
I wonder what else might lead to this country having a higher homicide rate?
Answer found here. Thanks for asking!
LOL Indeed,
That’s too funny. The US has a higher homicide rate because we have fat dumbass movie directers who lie a lot? I never knew!
‘Far be it from me to disturb your fantasies, but there has not been a reasonable comment since mine. ‘
That statement alone includes more fantasies than a teenagers’ wet dream.
‘Canada is a little too PC to have unfettered freedom of speech and a little too limp wristed to allow an armed citizenry, instead it’s a land of subjects who had to wait for freedom to be given to them.’
What a joke; since you clearly have no idea what free speech is, you’re in no position to judge whether it exists is Canada, which is certainly does.
As for being limp wristed, we don’t advocate overthrowing a democratically elected majority government by force because we may disagree with its policies, while hypocritically claiming it’s in the name of liberty; we call that treason.
Our freedom was not granted, it was secured, without violence, something the average Conservative conflates with weakness, which it isn’t.
But then if you Right wing gun nuts can’t kill something, it’s just not worth it for you, is it?
‘Once again the Canucks have to ask “Pretty please may we have some rights?”’
You continue to display the unlimited ignorance of Right wing zealotry.
Let us know when Elvis gets here.
I don’t see how these guys will have the longevity of either the Promise Keepers or the Minutemen, AO. These guys are banding together to prevent a takeover that isn’t about to happen. They’ll grow for about a year, until after the 2010 elections, then in 2 or 3 years time, people will drift away from it because they won’t be doing much of anything.
And then there’s the guys in the organization who suggest that states should secede as a form of protest – if that sort of rhetoric gets too loud, you will see the membership drop fast. This is not a long term group, and if Rhodes isn’t careful, he can easily find his organization being used by the Stormfront crowd to forward their message, whether or not he’s aware of it.
But, again, these guys are neither a threat, nor are they much of a political force. It won’t end well, is my point.
‘That’s too funny. The US has a higher homicide rate because we have fat dumbass movie directers who lie a lot? I never knew!’
No, the U.S. has a higher homicide rate than any other country on Earth because dumbass citizens continue to be brainwashed into believing guns solve more problems than they create.
Is there any doubt that you are among them?
JrFunk,
“you’re in no position to judge whether it exists is Canada, which is certainly does.”
The videos of your Human Rights commision were most entertaining in the Levant case. I understand the HRC had a 100% success rate up until that case.
“Our freedom was not granted, it was secured, without violence”
What England started around 1250 or so with the Magna Carta we completed. Our freedom was seized 250 years ago, after which we were no longer subjects.
Be interested in discovering AO’s theory on why America has such a high crime rate versus other nations. Since he brought it up and all.
Is it true that you have over 10 federal agencies to surveillance, monitor, police, and spy on you without regard to law, concent, or due process? Did you know the US feds log and backtrace all IP’s from people with your rhetoric?
Boy that sure sounds like freedom to me… now whats all this now about having rights you were saying?
abanterer,
I’d wager it’s not law abiding citizens having access to arms.
I take it to mean that ‘not letting law abiding citizens have access to firearms’ is your answer, because… that’s probably not a sentence otherwise.
But, all right. If your theory is sound, then why are rates lower in some countries with lower percentage access to firearms?
And what of nations like Canada, where there is access to firearms, but much lower homicide rates?
LOL abanterer,
abanterer: “Be interested in discovering AO’s theory on why America has such a high crime rate versus other nations.”
Myself: “I’d wager it’s not law abiding citizens having access to arms.”
abanterer: “I take it to mean that ‘not letting law abiding citizens have access to firearms’ is your answer, because… that’s probably not a sentence otherwise”
I don’t see where the confusion might come from about my answer. Your perception is 180 out from my intended message. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
Canada’s homicide rate is roughly 50% of ours. Why do you think that might be?
Then, it’s just not an answer. I ask what you thought it was, and you tell me what you thought it wasn’t. And it seems you have some sort of theory on this, because you were the one who started talking up about how awesome an armed citizenry is. So, I am naturally curious. I’ll more curious when I get up in 5 hours though. Take yer time.
That’s not a whole lot of sleep.
AO – “The videos of your Human Rights commision were most entertaining in the Levant case.”
I see you’ve been reading Stormfront Canada?
I’m fairly sure not that many jews post with stormfront.
So am I to understand you stand four square behind your HRC? Not too much of a price to pay, trading freedom of speech for a little PC.
‘The videos of your Human Rights commision were most entertaining in the Levant case. I understand the HRC had a 100% success rate up until that case.’
Which you can prove I suppose?
‘What England started around 1250 or so with the Magna Carta we completed. Our freedom was seized 250 years ago, after which we were no longer subjects.’
And with the help of people like you supporting his every move, Bush was able to piss all over your freedom in a matter of a few scant years.
America, fuck yeah.
JrFunk,
“Which you can prove I suppose”
Do you dispute the HRC conviction rate prior to the Levant & Steyn cases?
‘Do you dispute the HRC conviction rate prior to the Levant & Steyn cases?’
I’m not disputing anything, since you haven’t bothered to post anything that supports your statement.
I would like a liberal to answer, once and for all, what exactly does a government have to do before rebellion is justified?
“I would like a liberal to answer, once and for all, what exactly does a government have to do before rebellion is justified?”
Do you mean an “election is justified” or what you said? Go ahead and answer.
“And what of nations like Canada, where there is access to firearms, but much lower homicide rates?”
Because we don’t have gun shops on every street corner selling assault rifles to kids and gang members. When they are not so readily available, they aren’t as easy to acquire by those who do want to do harm – regardless of if they obey law or not. It’s called common sense.
“I would like a liberal to answer, once and for all, what exactly does a government have to do before rebellion is justified?”
We wouldn’t know up here, as we live in a free country that respects the privacy and rights of it’s people and generally leaves us alone. Since your apparently at odds with how an overwhelming vote turned out, care to enlighten us?
The question, and maybe I should have been more clear, was pointed at American liberals/left.
It seems that no matter what the government does that is unconstitutional, the left insists that fighting against it is somehow wrongheaded. (Let’s not get in a Bush did this, Bush did that argument, as I believe both parties are just as guilty.)
My suspicion is that the average lefty feels that rebellion is NEVER justified, no matter what. That is the tone they set.
So I would like to know for the record, what does our, or any other government for that matter, have to do before rebellion is justified?
Election? Are you insinuating that if the people involved are elected there is no recourse no matter what they do? That mob rule is ok?
We all must remember folks like Hitler that were popular and elected. Does that mean their actions are ok because they were elected?
There must be a point where a criminal government or mob rule cross the line and rebellion is justified.
What is that point? Or, in the eyes of the left, is it never justified?
Thomas Jefferson came up with a pretty good list of justifications.
There must be a point where a criminal government or mob rule cross the line and rebellion is justified.
Suspending the constitution.
Declaring marshall law.
Violating the constitution in an egregious and universally recognized manner (in other words, no, collecting income taxes doesn’t count)
Dismissing Congress and taking unitary executive power
Organizing a military coup
None of which is even remotely suggested by any of President Obama’s actions.
And, I should add, armed rebellion can only be justified when all other legal and peaceful means – such as impeachment – have failed.
“Violating the constitution in an egregious and universally recognized manner…”
This tenet has already been satisfied.
We are waging wars with no decleration of war and have since WWII.
Just for starters.