That’s the idiotic conclusion drawn by former regular commenter Jay Tea back at his old digs, Wizbang. He concludes that somehow people paying in to support universal care is just like a draft. That’s right. A few cents on your pay stub is just like slogging through the swap in the ‘Nam. Jeez.
As opposed to the current hero of the left-wing, Congressman Alan Grayson, calling the current system like the Holocaust?
In which he apologized to the dead, like he was in the middle of a seance.
We were uninsured once….and young.
We have to burn this village to save it.
Patiently waiting for Repack to chime in.
Both Grayson and Tea are idiots for their respective analogies.
There is no such thing as a moral conservative. Evil, vicious, child-killing scum, the lot of them.
Hey Dennis: It’s “Yes Or No Question Time” again: So are you saying that Jay Tea’s analogy was idiotic? Yes or No please!
Cons think only white people are human and everyone else should go to the veterinarian because they’re animals.
Give the wingnut his due, the mandate is indeed coercive. The reason it’s justified is because if one of Jay Tea’s young, uninsured, assetless buds breaks his leg snowboarding, and has no money, we aren’t going to let his leg turn gangrene from non-treatment. We are going to fix him up, send him a bill for it, and when he can’t pay, the system is going to swallow it.
You could still say that young, assetless snowboarders ought to be free to break their legs, then die when they don’t have the money for treatment. I utterly disagree, but the important point is that that ship sailed generations ago. Social Security is mandatory in much the same way, and the principle that considers the mandate unconstitional would necessitate the repeal of Social Security as well. No one is free to save nothing for their retirement, then be homeless when they are too old to work. And our country is unambiguously the better for it.
Oh Jay Tea, I’m so glad after you were fired from Commentary you landed on your feet back at your old job. Otherwise, we would be deprived of such gems as this:
Yes, you read that right. Having Swine Flu instead of just a really bad regular flu is what saved this guy from thousands of dollars of debt. And Jay Tea thinks this is a feature, not a bug, so to speak.
So can we add another line to Republican health care plan?
If you get sick, hope it’s a catastrophic illness and not just something really serious that you’ll have to pay for out of pocket.
Fucking brilliant.
I miss the red clay. Will Obamacare have Vietnamese nurses?
Considering JT is only alive because doctors overlooked his uninsured status and treated him anyway just adds to the douchebaggery.
Why bother to even send that moron traffic? He’s always been a disingenuous loser and a hypocrite. Lest we forget, he received government provided health care to save his life.
Guess that isn’t good enough for anyone else. Typical Republican.
what BS that is EL and Jaim… I suppose conservatives should hand deliver all their messages , and forego the use of that well known socialist institution , the Post Office.
LOl,
My but we have some well balanced well centered commentators here. Is this a secret contest to see who can make the biggest ass out of himself? Lots of contenders.
The question is do these guys represent typical liberal values or are these guys unique in some way?
So what say you Jaim, jr,EL, and Mike? Does your course cramped foul way of looking at the world reflect typical progressive values and attitudes or are you guys unique in your crude, ignorant, bigoted viewpoints?
“I suppose conservatives should hand deliver all their messages , and forego the use of that well known socialist institution , the Post Office.”
If you go to the post office and have your mail sent for free then bitch about the post office then yes, you are a fucking hypocrite.
Jay had his life saved by government provided health care since he was uninsured. We footed the bill. And now he bitches about a reasonable public option where people would have access to affordable (not free) health care.
Is this a secret contest to see who can make the biggest ass out of himself?
We bow before the master.
What say we run over to WizBang and see how fast we get banned for pulling the same stunts Mr. Tea used to pull here?
If six of us clicked over to Wizbang we’d triple their daily traffic.
If six of us clicked over to Wizbang we’d triple their daily traffic.
I doubt the site could handle it
Gee, I don’t recall mentioning Viet Nam in that article. In fact, let me check… yup, as usual, Oliver is Making Shit Up to prove his point.
My friend made an error and learned his lesson. I’ve spoken with him since, and he’s improving his coverage for the next year.
And if any of the customary fuckwits and fuckwads want to test my patience over at Wizbang and see what is considered “tolerable,” I can assure you that we put up with a lot of assholes being assholes — unlike Oliver’s new bestest bud at LGF. You gotta really, really work at it to get banned at Wizbang — I believe that commenters’ words reflect on them far more than on the host.
I left here after Oliver used the coffins of American soldiers to make a partisan political point, and the usual crowd of fuckwits and fuckwads all applauded his courage. I see not much has changed…
J.
And, as usual, I see no one wants to rebut my actual argument, that the mandatory public participation by young people is little different from mandatory military conscription of young people…
J.
Oh, and feel free to bring this discussion of my Wizbang article over to Wizbang. I stopped regularly reading this site at the same time I stopped commenting.
There you can see for yourself the major lack of mention of the “swaps” of Viet Nam
Remarkable, Oliver. You only put together five sentences (counting “That’s right.” and “Jeez.”) and you STILL couldn’t keep it accurate. No wonder you spend most of your time writing short-form. Fewer words means (well, ought to mean) fewer mistakes.
J.
Actually, I love the idea of having to have a draft in order to go fight wars. Imagine if there had needed to be a draft in order to go invade and occupy Iraq; do you think we’d still be there?
The possibility of being drafted and going off to die for one’s country would dramatically improve the level of discourse in this country.
As far as paying to support universal care being like a draft, yeah, so?
I stopped regularly reading this site at the same time I stopped commenting.
And yet here you are.
I stopped regularly reading this site at the same time I stopped commenting.
Thanks!
Right, liberal rob : if we asked people off the street to fight for their country , we’d be asking the same people who voted for Pres Obama — people who think every day is either Christmas or Thanksgiving, and the government is the Great Provider , as long as you are suitably subservient.
THey’d never do anything as unselfish as fight for their country — why should they? Even the President thinks we suck.
liberalrob, I followed the trackback. And I’m answering it at length at Wizbang:
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/10/19/like-stupid-to-stupid.php\
J.
I left here after Oliver used the coffins of American soldiers to make a partisan political point,
So Mr. Tea graces us with his presence once again.
Mr. Tea has forgotten that he made one visit here following OW’s unpardonable reference to the martyred dead. He reappeared–albeit briefly–to chide Sean about fact checking.
It was really rather comic. As you might expect, it was Mr. Tea who got his facts entirely bollixed.
Mr. Tea, if using the war dead to make a partisan point is inexcusable, what punishment befits one who denies their very existance?
Hey, Jay Tea, while you’re paying attention….
Was it you that got me banned at Wizbang? Because I assure you I didn’t “really work at it.”
What I did do, repeatedly, was ask the editors to hold conservative commenters to the same standards as liberals. They were pissed off at me half the time, but they let me comment from right after the last election up until….let’s see…the VERY FIRST TIME I commented on one of your posts.
So, was it you? Or did the editors just get tired of me making some of the mouthbreathers look even more foolish?
You guys slosh around a lot of loose talk, don’t you?
Remarkable, Oliver. You only put together five sentences (counting “That’s right.” and “Jeez.”) and you STILL couldn’t keep it accurate.
How did I miss this howler? Mr. Tea lecturing on accuracy? The irony is so thick you could repair potholes with it.
Please, Mr. Tea, tell us how Sean bungled his facts on the bombing of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut and how you set him straight on the facts.
Frank,
My nephew is a 25-year old Lance Corporal in the Marine Corps. He served two terms in Iraq and was then seriously injured in a state side Humvee accident. He very much wants to stay in the Corps but has been given a medical discharge.
He voted for Obama.
if we asked people off the street to fight for their country , we’d be asking the same people who voted for Pres Obama
Sounds like a good idea to me to choose from the obviously patriotic element of the population, rather than the nutwingers who foment revolution against a freely elected government and claim that the CiC isn’t “legitimate.”
Mr. Tea, doing some rigorous fact checking on September 11, 2009:
What Mr. Tea missed:
Why do you dishonor the sacrifice of service members who died at the hands of Hezbollah, Mr. Tea?
I stopped regularly reading this site at the same time I stopped commenting.
If you “stopped commenting,” WTF is this? Do you know the difference between “stopping”? and “suspending?”
The last time we had the mythical draft Jay Tea is talking about was Vietnam. And then he attacks me for not being as long-winded as him. You wound me sir, I demand you resign.
Jay banned me from wizbang a long time ago. I still read the site but it is not friendly to dissent.
Hey, Frank, how are those corperate death-panels working out for you?
I’m a hick: I guess that means the military rank and file opposes the war?
Maybe it means you’re safer in Iraq than you are in a humvee?
Oh, wait!
I just read Repack’s comment…
Here we go: “We’re patriotic, too!” “We love it when it’s got the right President,and the right party running Congress, and they follow liberal policy” But, when they don’t, “THis country is hated by everybody; we’re the unwanted policeman of the world, killers of women and children, spoilers of the planet, arrogant and cruel.” Talk about fickle.
Zython : How wrong can you be ? Let me count the ways:
1) The claimant was not dying
2) There was no “end – of – life advisory – counseling”* involved
3) They must be a small company if they folded up their tent because of one claim.
4) The quote came from one executive. I am sure there are more two executives in the company, so he was apparently overruled.
5) The company cut off their nose to spite their face. So what?
6) The client will be on Medicaid in a few days.
NEXT?
*”end – of – life – advisory – counseling” equals “death panel”
Frank,
No. It means maybe you tend to see things just as black and white as you accuse us of doing. And they aren’t.
5) The company cut off their nose to spite their face. So what?
And everyone they cover.
I also find it bemusing that you have such a huge issue with drafting living wills, but that this doesn’t faze you.
There’s also this, but I doubt you’ll care about that either.
40 comments here (now 41). 11 comments there. Hmm.
Jay Tea, you write this:
then you write this:
Jay Tea, the first statement entirely validates the need for young people to have insurance but then you still insist it’s just like drafting them into the army.
You are the dumbest person on the planet.
I see no one wants to rebut my actual argument, that the mandatory public participation by young people is little different from mandatory military conscription of young people…
Because it’s an insanely stupid point. Do you really want someone to point out how providing health insurance is different from forcing someone into the military?
*”end – of – life – advisory – counseling” equals “death panel” equals “Frank has no idea what he’s talking about”
Sure, Quaker. As long as you cite the specific part of the Constitution that empowers the federal government to require every citizen to possess health insurance.
That one’s been a bit vague to a lot of people…
J.
As long as you cite the specific part of the Constitution that empowers the federal government to require every citizen to possess health insurance.
It’ll be proposed under the commerce clause and, if it became law, be challenged under the same, most likely without success.
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/the-right-the-duty-to-bear-insurance-cards/
Jay Tea, you would look a lot less stupid if instead of typing the first dumb thing that pops into your head as a blog post, you typed it up in the google search field and hit enter.
I mean, do you know how long it took me to find that article after I read your post? Like 10 seconds.
I just googled: “constitutional authority to mandate health insurance coverage”
You could have done the same thing and had an actual answer and substantive argument to make (with supporting evidence!) instead of just another dumb, empty taunt.
But you didn’t. Maybe that’s why you got fired from Commentary.
Isn’t it a bitch having a professional editor who doesn’t want him or herself or their publication embarrassed in print?
Sure, Quaker. As long as you cite the specific part of the Constitution that empowers the federal government to require every citizen to possess health insurance.
Whoa. Weren’t you complaining that no one was willing to debate your comparison of health insurance mandates to the draft…right before you changed the subject?
Beirut embassy?
fafaroo, that’s the INTERSTATE commerce clause. As in, “commerce that involves crossing a state line.” And that’s been stretched well past its breaking point a long time ago.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To stretch it like you cite is a violation of the 9th Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Demanding that every individual buy health insurance is NOT spelled out in the Constitution — not even in the “penumbras.”
How did I know you’d run to the Interstate Commerce clause? Oh, yeah, because that’s the default for all the big government types.
J.
How did I know you’d run to the Interstate Commerce clause? Oh, yeah, because that’s the default for all the big government types.
So you know the answer before you asked your question? Instead of proceeding straight into the the typical conservative claptrap you just regurgitated?
Jay Tea, if the mandatory coverage requirement becomes law, it will probably be challenged in court and the Supreme Court will probably end up hearing many different arguments about what the commerce clause will and will not allow.
Would you like to have that debate now in this thread? Because I’m game if you are.
But you’re going to have to do lot better than citing the clause and going “nyah, nyah, nyah.”
You’re going to have to actually do some homework and present an argument with supporting legal decisions etc. etc.
Do you think you can do that?
So Jay is not only a “tenther,” he’s a “ninther” as well.
Awesome.
55 comments here, 12 there. Hmm. And not one of those 12 is in opposition to the premise. Hmm again.
That’s probably because of the oh-so-liberal commenting policy at Wizbang, where you have to really really work at it to get banned.
Bruce, why don’t you sent them an email and ask to get your IP address reinstated instead of taking it personally?
Unless you’d rather just take it personally.
Demanding that every individual buy health insurance is NOT spelled out in the Constitution — not even in the “penumbras.”
Pig stupid is no way to go through life, Mr. Tea.
You’re engaging in one of your favorite dodges here–telling only half the story. What’s the other half of the “demand that every individual buy health insurance” part of the reform plan, hm?
I don’t have the patience today to try to drag it out of you, so I’ll answer my own question. The other half is: “or pay a tax.” Under the reform plan you can a) buy health insurance or b) pay a tax. The Constitution grants Congress the authority to levy taxes–and to grant exemptions from taxes.
Sorry, Quaker; lost my taste for what is laughingly called “debate” in this particular cesspool.
J.
Sorry, Quaker; lost my taste for what is laughingly called “debate” in this particular cesspool.
Which explains why you’re here. Somehow.
He’s here because the blog owner called him out- out of the blue, Indeed.
Of all the stupid comments you make, that one is close to being the all-time stupidest.
——
Jay Tea, I hope you don’t mind me reposting one of your best posts ever here, of which there are many:
Sorry, Quaker; lost my taste for what is laughingly called “debate” in this particular cesspool.
I see. First it’s “Why won’t anyone debate me?” Then it’s “I want to change the subject!” Now it’s “I’ve lost my taste for debate.”
Go away, Mr. Tea. Go back to WhizBag and tell your little friends how much smarter you are than everyone else. Anyone undiscriminating enough to visit there might actually believe you.
Wow!
Dennis trolls on behalf of another troll by reposting an earlier post accusing someone of trolling on behalf of the site’s host.
It’s like a freakin’ hall of mirrors.
Sorry, Quaker; lost my taste for what is laughingly called “debate” in this particular cesspool.
Hilarious. Jay Tea, you truly are one of the internet’s great morons.
Thanks for the advice, Dennis. Gee, why didn’t I think of that?
Oh, yeah, I did.
So I got banned. No big deal. But when Mr Tea claimed here that you “have to really really work at it,” I decided to, you know, call bullshit.
Oliver’s is the only site I know of with such a tolerant policy. You could never get away with dissing Mr Tea’s boss like you do Oliver.
Sorry to veer off-topic. Please carry on.
Lol. That’s pretty good, too, Quibs. Not as good as Jay Tea’s, but quite witty. Touche.
Bruce, gimme your IP and I’ll un-ban you. I didn’t do it, but I think I can un-do it.
Quaker, you wanna discuss my article with me, feel free to discuss it on my article. Here, I’d rather hear someone defend Master Economist Willis’ plan to cover health insurance on “a few cents on your pay stub.”
That’s downright hysterical.
J.
Here, I’d rather hear someone defend Master Economist Willis’ plan to cover health insurance on “a few cents on your pay stub.
So “lost my taste for debate” is already inoperative? I can’t keep up, Mr. Tea.
I think we’ve come full circle now. When I offered a comment on OWs post (and your loony reaction to it) you decided you wanted to discuss Constitutional issues. When commenters answered you on that score, you suddenly “lost your taste for debate.”
And now you’re back to wondering why no one takes your point seriously?
Go away.
Quaker, you wanna discuss my article with me, feel free to discuss it on my article.
What? You want me to come over to your place to give you a spanking?
Say “pretty please” Mr. Tea.
Dennis trolls on behalf of another troll by reposting an earlier post accusing someone of trolling on behalf of the site’s host.
Dennis is quite the stalker. That’s for sure.