’)Some shots I took from the annual meeting of Fear Of A Black President:
Conservatives demonstrate the respect they have for the American flag.
Birthers, HOLLA
This woman was explaining to this man that we need to be praying for the rapture. I am not joking.
This picture says EVERYTHING about this protest.
I’m sure Oprah is taking notes.
I will report this wheelbarrow to Party HQ.
This slogan does not roll of the tongue.
Alexander Hamilton can GO TO HELL
This guy was all about Sarah Palin nailing stuff
When your book recommendations are Beck and Levin, you got problems.
Christian Nation sign, signed by Jim Demint. No Muslims or Jews in South Carolina, I guess.
To these people, white privilege is a myth.
In case “look” wasn’t clear enough, he drew eyes.
“Don’t Back Down” + A Bee = Most Unclear Sign Of The Day
They want so much to be left alone they joined several thousand others to say so.
Its all about the hats.
Here’s hoping Fox News integrates the rainbow style into their motif.
Our secret, uncovered.
An Obama supporter tried to reason. I overheard some young conservatives making fun of his disability.
For some reason, an anti-Gore sign.
End scene.
RELATED:
This man is my HERO: Skins + Obama.
Well I’ll be damned. I’m disappointing there were no ropes, hoodies or burning crosses in sight.
Remember when the wing-nuts routinely dismissed anti-Iraq protesters?
So I’m going to take these people as seriously as they Right took someone like Cindy Sheehan.
What a pack of racist buffoons. And how sad that they hold the office of the presidency in such contempt.
Honestly, if they have so many problems with America they should leave.
Alexander Hamilton had nothing to do with the creation of the Federal Reserve system. He did create the first US Bank which Andrew Jackson de-chartered during his presidency.
“I overheard some young conservatives making fun of his disability.” No you didn’t – where’s the audio? That’s ridiculous – keep trying to paint us as haters/racists.
No you didn’t – where’s the audio?
In fact, I did hear them. They laughed at the man because his sign said “stand up for health care” and he had a disability.
LOL,
So it’s all about the racism? It sure is cute the way you guys use the term reality based.
So it’s all about the racism?
If they were having these protests when the bailouts came – under a white president – they might have more credibility.
“Honestly, if they have so many problems with America they should leave.”
It was kind of you to do so. It’s funny how the teacher’s union has made it almost impossible to fire even the most incompetent of teachers but you can’t even get hired. South Korea’s loss and our gain.
love the skins jersey!
Ha – good shit Oliver.
“So it’s all about the racism?”
Yes. Bush spent like a drunken sailor and routinely violated the rights of American citizens re: unlawful detention and spying on citizens.
How many teabagger parties were there between 2001-2008?
95% of this is all about your racist outlook, AO. Deal with it.
“It was kind of you to do so.”
Bush and the GOP ruined my country, especially its economy. So I left. I’ll be happy to return when the time comes and Obama has fixed all of the many catastrophes you racist clowns caused.
And I’ve never been a member of a union.
“Obama has fixed all of the many catastrophes you racist clowns caused.”
Wow, there is a disconnect from reality. As bad as Bush was for spending more money than he should have Obama makes him look like a miser. Are you aquainted with the monetary phenemenon known as inflation? Do you know how it is caused?
PS. Most of the time you have to get hired before you join a union.
btw, What does “Keep pressure on Alinsky” even mean?
It means that the American right is pissed off enough to
emulate leftist tactics. We’re all community organizers now. Remember dissent is the highest form of patriotism. Unless of course you are dissenting Obama policy, then it goes instantly from patriotism to racism.
Jaim, wow, Bush and the GOP didn’t ruin my country, so where are you from, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Oliver, “Don’t Back Down” + A Bee = Most Unclear Sign Of The Day. Yea, sorry could only afford my old high school football banner since Obama only left me with change. Go Hornets!
Oliver, can you change the heading for this section to “Some shots I took from the annual meeting of Fear Of A Black President with a teleprompter:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb-VjuZ3p5g
Why is their a Black man on the stage, did you happen to see him there? Is he Clayton Bigsby, oh wait his not blind.
I notice that the flag is not burning — that would be a demonstration of the left wing attitude towards the flag. I don’t see any injured policeman, broken windows , or burning vehicles : yep, a right – wing demonstration, all right .
That’s not what they’re about, Jaim. Just because bailing on the country when you don’t like things here is your solution doesn’t mean it should be theirs.
I’m surprised you’re not telling liberals here to leave the country like you did since these things piss you off so much.
And I am still waiting for a plausible connection between these demonstrations and racism — besides , “Oh, you just know they’re racist”.
My bet is that many of these people voted for Pres Obama, and they now realize they bought a pig in a poke, and they are pissed.
A freezing cold wet rain in April and you take the day off work to go down and mock tea party protesters for their futlility, and now a beautiful late summer Saturday 5 months later that is much larger with the movement frustrating liberals to no end that you take a full day to go downtown and take pictures on your day off.
Seriously, you guys kill me. 30 years old, no kids, no real responsibilities, girlfriends? I don’t know, but C’mon, you don’t live forever like that. Surely there’s more interesting things to do than take such delight in mocking people you disagree with that it’s worth a whole Saturday for.
Get a life, libbies. Jaim sitting in his 500 sq ft. apartment in Korea fapping over these pictures is the perfect ending to his perfect day after attending his boss’ party….his weekend excitement. That’s what he left the USA for.
It takes no thought or imagination to make that charge, Frank. It simply means they have no argument. The charge means nothing any more, save for the tiny spark it gives the one saying it, merely from the memory of days past when it did get a rise out of someone.
Hal Turnerites being Hal Turnerites
The fact that there were no teabagger parties between 2001-2008 isn’t about racism (there were African-Americans at the rally today), as much as it is about the fact that the first letter of the political party Obama belongs to starts with a “d” and not an “r.”
“…keep trying to paint us as haters…”
Right, Brian, comparing Obama to Hitler AND Stalin and implying that Obama, through his health plan, would kill granny (“Save Granny. Defeat Obamacare”) involves no hate. None whatsoever.
“…they now realize they bought a pig in a poke…”
You’re comparing Obama to a PIG? Stay classy, Frank.
And your anti-war protesters, daniel.
Where are they now?
Why is Cindy Sheehan shunned by you now?
No you didn’t – where’s the audio? That’s ridiculous – keep trying to paint us as haters/racists.
PFFT–even if Oliver had a tape you’d claim it’s a lie and he’s just trying to “smear” good Americans.
Save your phony outrage for people that care.
My bet is that many of these people voted for Pres Obama, and they now realize they bought a pig in a poke
Yeah, you just keep repeating this to yourself and one day maybe it’ll become the truth.
Seriously, you guys kill me. 30 years old, no kids, no real responsibilities, girlfriends
Funny thing Dennis…we could easily say the same thing of your “ilk” in these photos. Pretty obvious many of them have no lives aside from being Glennie’s foot soldiers against a more “colorful” America.
Aside from the colorful language, polls confirm it, durablend. Independents are bailing.
They’re not leaving the country, as Jaim advocates for when one is unsatisfied with life, but they aren’t happy with the current leadership.
And if all this is phony outrage, why so much interest from all you guys? Why would someone take a whole day to go downtown and take pictures to report on why he hates so many people?
Makes no sense at all.
Funny, I don’t remember any conservatives demanding audio when Edward Klein alleged that Edward Kennedy liked to “joke” about Chappaquidick; of course, that didn’t stop several of them (like Joseph Farrah from the sewer that is the wnd.com site) from treating the allegation as fact and bashing the now-deceased Kennedy.
Yes, you could say that, but you’d be wrong, durablend. Don’t know if you mean Glenn Beck or Glenn Reynolds, but if you look at Reynold’s site, you’ll see many protesters are parents. Many of them are there for their children.
And soemday, maybe, yours and your “ilk’s” children.
Yes. Bush spent like a drunken sailor …
How many teabagger parties were there between 2001-2008?
You’re giving a bad name to drunken sailors everywere.
The Bee: maybe they were from Utah?
Rotter: Could you possibly be any stupider ? (I suppose you could — surgery maybe, toxic fumes)
a pig in a poke
Something that you buy or accept without first seeing it or knowing what it is like, with the result that it might not be what you want
Assume the position
There’s audio of Ted Kennedy’s good friend and biographer, Edward Klein, saying this was true, daniel. Why don’t you accuse him of being in the sewer for starting the whole thing or question why he’d just make that up when, by the way he said it, he was actually trying to praise Kennedy? With Katty Kay, no less.
95% of this is all about your racist outlook, AO. Deal with it.
So anywhere from 60,000 to 80,000 people show up for these protests and Jaim math says that 57,000 to 76,000 people showed up simply because they hate black people.
Please stay in South Korea so American children are not subject to your ravine deep stupidity in the classroom.
Interestingly, I don’t see any anti-war protests despite Barack Obama ramping up operations in Afghanistan. Using the same pretzel logic we see here that says 95% of these protesters are just racists, it means all of those anti-war protesters were a bunch of fakes and it was all about hating on President Bush.
It’s just amazing how the attitudes change when the parties change.
Before: Dissent is the highest form of patriotism!
Now: Dissent is wrong racists!
Before: We deserve to be heard!
Now: Shut up and sit down racists!
Before: Protesting is an example of Americans exercising their rights as Americans!
Now: You protesters are all a bunch of un-American, McCarthyite racists!
Pretty soon we’re basically going to be down to this:
Person A: Do you agree with Obama about ___________ ?
Person B: No, because —-
Person A: RACIST!!!!
And, of course, comparing the President to Hitler is something you guys on the Left would never dream of . [It may take a while to load , there are so many examples].
We’re pretty much already there, Jay. Used to be that people would pause and reflect a bit before making the accusation, now it’s that folks like Keith Olbermann, Janeane Garofolo and Bill Maher have made it such that it’s almost automatic for anyone to just throw it out when they can’t verbalize a coherent argument.
There’s really no reason to pay attention to it anymore.
“Why don’t you accuse him of being in the sewer for starting the whole thing…”
Okay, Klein is in the sewer for starting the whole thing.
“…or question why he’d just make that up…”
Because I have no idea whether Klein’s allegation is true or not. That’s not the point. I was responding to Brian’s “If it’s not on audio, it doesn’t exist” reply to Oliver’s allegation that the latter personally witnessed a teabagger mocking a wheelchair-bound individual’s disability. I was pointing out that Brian’s ideological brethren didn’t apply the same standard with regards to Kennedy’s alleged “joking” about Chappaquidick.
daniel,
In one case you have a close personal friend and biographer who described Kennedy in passing and was trying to show his complex side, not trying to hurt his reputation. He had no reason to make it up, and to my knowledge, no one has questioned his credibility on it. In the other instance, you have someone with apparently little better to do and a very pleasant summer Saturday and a very huge ax to grind, as he admitted by declaring how much he hates these people.
See the difference?
Where were these morons when Bush squandered our money and thousands of our kids’ lives? Where were these imbeciles when the Bush administration made up laws and shredded the Constitution?
Words don’t exist that can accurately describe the lows of ignorance and sheer stupidity these people have attained. These folks listen only to their masters. They don’t want to read, they don’t need to read, and those who do know how to read probably have the reading comprehension of a soap dish.
They simply believe the people on the ol’ Fox tee-vee, whose pay is based on their viewer-draw, as the gospel – no questions asked.
“Interestingly, I don’t see any anti-war protests despite Barack Obama ramping up operations in Afghanistan.”
That’s because most of the anti-war protests during the last administration dealt with the war in Iraq. If Obama were to ramp up operations in THAT country, then I’d see your point.
“He had no reason to make it up.”
You know this how?
“…and to my knowledge, no one has questioned his credibility on it.”
Maybe because after his hatchet job on Hillary Clinton, Klein doesn’t have any credibility left for people to question.
Cindy Sheehan vehemently disagrees with your logic, daniel. Our men are still coming home in caskets. She used to be a hero to the anti-war Left; now she’s ignored and shunned. She now says that most of the protesters before weren’t anti-War as much as they were anti-Republican. Judging from the coverage and the dialogue here about Iraq and Afghanistan now versus then, I’d think even you would have to agree with her on that.
“She now says that most of the protestors before weren’t anti-War as much as they were anti-Republican.”
Even if she did say this (and you didn’t provide a link in that regard), since when did Sheehan do a poll of the motivations and attitudes of “most of the protestors?”
“And if all this is phony outrage, why so much interest from all you guys? Why would someone take a whole day to go downtown and take pictures to report on why he hates so many people?”
Um, some of us actually live downtown or close enough to a metro stop that it only takes a few minutes to get there. i usually take interest in any large event taking place in my back yard.
Dennis: Yes, far better to spend hours upon hours every day on a website arguing. You spend more time on this site than I do, and my name is on the marquee.
In April I stopped on my way to work to look at a spectacle. Yesterday I took a couple of hours to check out some lunatics. All of this basically within my backyard. I happen to live less than a stone’s throw away from this crazy, so I go. I only exert energy to go to stuff I really care about, like driving all the way out to Virginia to watch Redskins training camp.
Jay: Liberals protested against the war of choice being fought wrongly. We changed the commander in chief to one who wishes to fight terrorism. There’s nothing wrong with protesting (though as I said when Bush was in power, its largely a waste of time) but these people insist that their gripe is spending and takeovers, but they somehow stayed home until the President changed races. Liberals protest against policies that they feel strongly about, and don’t check the party affiliation (“Hey hey LBJ how many kids did you kill today”).
I will just say this: most times I see these teabaggers they are: older, appear to be lower-middle class(Could definetly be wrong on this) but most definetly WHITE. Why is it that these audiences are not filled with hispanic,asian,black, etc…? So I am guess this is only a coincedence? Nothing upsets conservatives more than a charge or suggestion of racism/bigotry but when your audience is SOOO lily white(and your base) I have to question alittle. I would love to be proven wrong(maybe Oliver saw a vast array of diverse people) but the only thing proven is their hate.
So, there’s a photo of a sign asking where their white privilege is, signs saying Obama is Kenyan, and elsewhere I’ve seen a shot of the Confederate flag, and for some reason there are people who can’t believe that there was an element of racism in that crowd?
Or do I misinterpret the point of that sign? Is it suggesting ironically that they don’t have any privilege, so the concept that there are white privileged males anywhere is somehow a false charge of a minority illegitimately claiming power? Is that the hidden meaning of the odd punctation and syntax? He’s so unprivileged that he never learned grammar? Or was that syntax intended to ridicule black speech, in which case it becomes racist again? So confusing.) Like so many of the signs I’ve seen in pictures of the rally, it’s very hard to understand what the sign-creator’s message really was. I was similarly confused by the man in the Gone Galt shirt who clearly had not retreated to a mountain settlement with the rest of his productive geniuses, and left the rest of us bereft of his abilities until we learned the error of our ways. (If only they really would go, these Galters!) In what way had the man gone Galt, actually, by appearing at a protest in Our Nation’s Capital?
Though obviously it’s hard to tell if the mainly racist were a larger element of the protest than the Ayn Rand Fans, the hard currency fans, the Christianists, the tort reformers, the isolationists (or was he a Libertarian – I couldn’t tell who was supposed to leave him alone, exactly), the Birthers, the anti-communist/czarist/socialist/fascist crowd, the small government/less taxes crowd, the oak tree haters (oh, not that acorn?), the anti-carbon-tax folks, or the just-plain Fox News viewers. Message discipline or clarity is not apparently a virtue for these people, even within their own minds. They are against, apparently, a great many somethings, for a great many confusing reasons.
Since the theme of the rally seemed to be so open to personal definition, you’d think they could get more people out on a sunny weekend in DC, particularly with a big cable news promotion and months of planning. Sheesh, a week ago we got 3000 in Seattle on a work day with next to no promotion at all, just in favor of one issue, health care reform.
“Nothing upsets conservatives more than a charge or suggestion of racism/bigotry but when your audience is SOOO lily white”
LOL,
It’s a matter of values not identity. Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn’t really get you much. Hating whitey is more a function of insecurity than injustice in this day and age. Blatant bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance is quite noticable here in Ollieland amongst the left set.
“a week ago we got 3000 in Seattle on a work day with next to no promotion at all”
It’s easy to rally the left to protest on a work day. They have a lot of spare time. Just one more benefit of a welfare state, work doesn’t get you much so why bother.
AO,
Except by PURE COINCEDENCE the audience is white. Its a matter of values huh? So another coincedence that only white folks have the same values? A lecture on race from you is laughable at best.
“So another coincedence that only white folks have the same values?”
No Moby Dick, sharing common values appears to be a universal trait amongst different demographic groups. It’s not absolute by any means. Just because blacks vote for Democrats with 90% compliance doesn’t mean that every black votes for Democrats as an example.
The DC protesters assembled because they held common values mostly regarding liberty, freedom, and mistrust of the ever increasing power of the govt. to meddle with more and more aspects of daily life, not racism.
The best sign I saw…
“It doesn’t matter what this sign says
You’ll just call me a racist anyway”
The difference is, AO that if a “We Hate White People” rally were to be held, all the sane colored people would know to stay home. The people attending these rallies are referred to by Republicans themselves as ‘normal’, ‘law-abiding’, ‘average citizens’ etc. So if your normal demographics are straddling the apparently thin line between “blatant hate and racism” and “free speech concerning their political ideals”, then I’d hate to know where your REAL Kooks stand.
“No Moby Dick, sharing common values appears to be a universal trait amongst different demographic groups. It’s not absolute by any means”
Obviously I agree with this statement, but still, why does crowd not have more diverse faces? If this “teabagging” thing is so huge and the pulse of America, why is it old, white, and lower middle class? Common values of comparing Obama to Hitler(a man who murdered millions of Jews and despised the black race) should cross the racial spectrum, right? The real problem is this is the fringe, lead by a man who has openly stated his fear of black people, and made up of folks who probably have his same irrational fears.
I believe that the bee in the Don’t Back Down sign refers to The Bees Boys’ song of the same name from the All Summer Long lp.
the Repulbican righthas spent the last 40 years ridiculing protests, protesters and anti-government agitators and lo and behold look who protesting now?
Now they have come full circle. They have become dirty f*cking anti-government types they have always loathed.
Welcome aboard, hippies!
-G
Christian Nation sign, signed by Jim Demint. No Muslims or Jews in South Carolina, I guess.
This says a lot. I was hoping there would be some sort of “Christians Against Health Care” a la “Billionaires For Bush” (and now “Billionaires Against Health Care”). But what’s the point? These people are beyond parody. If there were signs saying “Read the Bible: We are NOT our brothers’ keepers!”, would the woman in this photo disagree? Doubtful.
A sizable chunk of the Teabagger set is really opposed to the notion of any health care (or any other perceived “handout”) going to any Other. It’s the latest incarnation of the Southern Strategy (“Welfare Queens” and what have you).
For these unfortunate characters, Health Care and any other American Institutions are only for Christians, specifically, only the Right Christians, if you know what I mean and I think you do.
There’s really no reason to pay attention to it anymore.
Incredibly huge cop out. Go find some photos of this event and read the signs. Spend some time with it. Pretend you have some empathy. You might learn something.
The best sign I saw…
“It doesn’t matter what this sign says
You’ll just call me a racist anyway”
Why? Are you suggesting that he protest was racism-free? Really? Want to take a better look at the signs? Have you forgotten the Sarah Palin rallies from last year? Ever see those videos? Are you serious?
The best sign I saw…
More here from National Treasure tbogg. Heh.
The DC protesters assembled because they held common values mostly regarding liberty, freedom, and mistrust of the ever increasing power of the govt. to meddle with more and more aspects of daily life, not racism.
Right, I remember these Patriots loud protest to the “Patriot Act” and it’s violation of rights. And their loud objections to the Bush administration running roughshod over the 4th amendment reverberated throughout the land. When Bush went to war (twice!) without gathering the constitutionally required declaration of war, these patriots spoke up and made Bush stand down. These Patriots were so concerned about their rights that they even objected to Bush violating habeus corpus by confining our enemies without due process. When Bush bailed out corporations, Patriots screamed “No!” and stood against him.
Wait, never mind, I was thinking of liberals, not these teabagging whiners. But that’s if these “Patriots” gave a rat’s ass about “liberty, freedom and mistrust of govt”, they would’ve stood next to those liberals. Too bad they were so busy listening to Rush and Fox News..
Error 404.
Pretty much sums up the sockpuppet, Mr. ed
I know a good immigration lawyer if anybody’s interested.
More here from National Treasure tbogg. Heh.
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2009/09/13/dc-teabagging-crowd-estimate-pegged-at-8675309-because-it-has-a-good-beat-and-you-can-dance-to-it/#comments
Liberal Media!!!
http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909130006
Even after the disappointing crowd showed up, nutwingers claimed numbers approaching a million. Why did they lie about something so easily disproven?
This crowd that could have fit in the visitors section of a college football stadium had been whipped up for months by a national network, but that was the best they could do after months of organizing and busing people in from xseveral nearby states.
I couldn’t have called the anti-war protests in 2003 “organized.” No national TV network was running ads for them a dozen times a day and the only talk show host opposed to the war was fired for his position on it, but participants numbered in the millions nationwide, and in San Francisco alone, ten times as many showed up to oppose the war as showed up in DC yesterday.
Yet the anti war protesters like my then 83-year old mother, a former Liberty Ship worker, were marginalized and dismissed as unpatriotic hippies. I need AO or Frank or Dennis to explain why a far more spontaneous protest a hundred times the size of yesterday’s and which took place in every major city in the country and which included an actual cross-section of America rather than being overwhelmingly white and old was so unimportant compared to this one.
The message I got from yesterday was that the size and composition of the crowd showed how far removed the teabaggers are from mainstream American thought, and how pathetic their numbers really are. After months of hype, the protest was the sound of one hand lighting a wet firecracker.
That was the best they could do? If we wait a few more years, most of them will die of old age, but at least they will have Medicaid until that happens.
It is false to say that the antiwar protests raged until Obama’s election, then vanished because a Dem is now at the helm. The antiwar protests pretty much ran out of gas after the 2004 election, which was, despite the protestors’ best efforts and the seeming salience of the Iraq War as an issue, pretty much a referendum on gay marriage and the merits of the Vietnam War (re-litigated via the proxy of John Kerry’s involvement in it).
Here’s the link to tbogg, one of the funniest bloggers alive. Every day he surgically dismantles these clowns.
That was the best they could do? If we wait a few more years, most of them will die of old age, but at least they will have Medicaid until that happens.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/09/entitled.php
Could anything be more ridiculous than presuming that if many non – whites are not in attendance , the remaining people of pallor must be racist?
Could anyone even demonstrate that diversity contributes to right thinking in any regard?
For example, can a black man, a chinese man, a hispanic man, and an American Indian do a better job of unraveling the Pythagorean Theorem than four white people ? Or vice versa?
More signs:
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=09&year=2009&base_name=signs_of_the_times_photos_from
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=09&year=2009&base_name=does_size_matter_thoughts_on_t
Could anything be more ridiculous than presuming that if many non – whites are not in attendance , the remaining people of pallor must be racist?
Indeed. But the racist signs and people supporting them are quite troubling, don’t you think?
Repack,
Your bewilderment is quite believable. The Bay area is not representative of the nation as a whole. Fewer people share your values nation wide than in your own local environs. Perhaps that is why California is known as the land of fruits and nuts.
Crusty Dem,
“But that’s if these “Patriots” gave a rat’s ass about “liberty, freedom and mistrust of govt”, they would’ve stood next to those liberals.”
The funniest part is you’re serious. Liberty and freedom are the polar opposites of the liberal Democratic agenda. The welfare state where the people look to the govt. instead of to them selves for solutions is the antithesis of individual freedom and liberty. But you don’t get that.
Could anyone even demonstrate that diversity contributes to right thinking in any regard?
I wouldn’t begin to suggest that, but it seems indisputable that this crowd did not represent the mainstream of America, which is diverse as opposed to yesterday’s monochrome.
So Frank, what’s your BEST GUESS as to why the crowd was so unrepresentative of the population we all wander about in every day? Why were Black, Latino and Asian demographics, which collectively approach half our population, invisible in this crowd?
The Bay area is not representative of the nation as a whole.
We seem to have quite a few more demographics than yesterday showed us.
AO, would you agree that an all white crowd is not representative of the nation as a whole either?
Frank,
Like AO, you are purposely blinding yourself to the most obvious pattern of this “movement”. I don’t suppose all of these folks are racist, but you willfully ignore that this crowd is lilly white, old, and lower-middle class. This country is SOOOO diverse yet this false movement only makes up one very small sect of the population. AO argued that this was about values and that values stretched across racial and socioeconomic lines(which I agree), yet lo and behold, this group doesn’t even come close to representing his thesis. Even by dumb luck the crowd should be more diverse but it is not. Aside from the obvious signs and comparisons of Hitler(a racist if there ever was one) you must wonder what older white fear most: Health Care reform or fear of something different-A black president- which is more representative of a changing America. I heard this somewhere and it make perfect sense:These folks see thier neibhorhoods being populated by Asians, Latinos, Blacks etc.., businesses being owned by Indians and Middle Eastern families, and its doesn’t fit thier 1940’s myth of America…oh and its racist!
I think there are almost certainly a much higher percentage of full-bore racists in that crowd than in the general population, but for most of the teabaggers I’d wager that individual, conscious racism is not an big issue.
A bigger issue is just plain ignorance: ignorance about fiscal policy, ignorance about what the various versions of the health bills actually say, ignorance stirred to a frothy boil from the bad actors -from Beck and Limbaugh to Palin and Wilson to the insurance corps – who profit from it.
And added to that ignorance is just plain garden variety selfishness. A lot of those people don’t really hate government expenditures, they hate that government expenditures on _me_ might be reduced to give more to somebody else. It’s not so much anti _them_ so much as it’s pro _me_ and anti-people-who-are-less-pro-me-than-me. This is understandable: it’s very human. We’re all selfish. But our best leaders -our Washingtons, our Lincolns our Roosevelts, our Kennedys have called us beyond our natural selfishness and America has survivied and grown stronger as a result. That sort of leadership has been singularly absent from the right. Instead, once again, the right’s leaders make a profession of enflaming that selfishness for their own short-term gain.
Of course for a lot of these people the fact that Obama is so conspicuously not-me in many ways (not just race, though the race thing is there) doesn’t help. It’s probably the main factor moving them from grumbling at the TV set to breaking out the sharpie pens and construction paper and hitting the streets.
Indeed,
I only clicked through to your first posted Tapped link. The signs I saw did not appear to be racist. Perhaps you might explain your troubles.
Repack,
Again your urban liberal reality does not mirror the nation as a whole. You might ask your self if the demographic whose absense you wonder about have a higher than average support for Obama and if so is this based on ideology or identity? Are they benificieries of legalized racism in the form of Affirmative Action? That could go a long ways towards explaining support for increased socialism, redistribution of wealth and a corresponding lack of support towards a more limited govt.
Jay: Pretty soon we’re basically going to be down to this:
Person A: Do you agree with Obama about ___________ ?
Person B: No, because —-
And if you stop right there, you’re right. Nothing follows the “because”.
“…of Death Panels.”
“…it’s Socialism.”
“…he isn’t legally President.”
“…it will force me to drop my current plan.”
“…I want him to lose.”
or any of the other completely ficticious “reasons” are nothing.
(OK, that last one isn’t a fiction. But it isn’t a rational argument against specific things that are in the actual proposals.)
“But our best leaders -our Washingtons, our Lincolns our Roosevelts, our Kennedys have called us beyond our natural selfishness and America has survivied and grown stronger as a result. ”
Those were all leaders but they were not all great ones. Washington and Lincoln have very little in common with the Roosevelts and Kennedys, America has survived despite not because of the latter’s leadership. We are still paying the price for FDR’s leadership and the coward of the Senate did far more harm than his brother but he had a much longer time to practice his mischief.
These folks see thier neibhorhoods being populated by Asians, Latinos, Blacks etc.., businesses being owned by Indians and Middle Eastern families, and its doesn’t fit thier 1940’s myth of America…oh and its racist!
That’s the bottom line–they’re desperately looking to go back to a 1950s-sitcom era society (which never existed in the first place)
I only clicked through to your first posted Tapped link. The signs I saw did not appear to be racist. Perhaps you might explain your troubles.
Jesus Fucking Christ, do you need a fucking roadmap?
Seeing as how a disproportionate percentage of our healthcare dollars are tied up treating chronic diseases that are generally the result of obesity– I think it’s worth noting that there are a TON of fatties in those pics.
Seriously, porkers: you have no right to complain about paying for anyone else’s healthcare until you put down the twinkies and get on a treadmill three or more times per week. These hypocrites have no problem forcing the rest of us to foot the bill for their complete lack of self control. Typical.
‘As bad as Bush was for spending more money than he should have Obama makes him look like a miser’
Are you out of your mind? Obama has spent MORE in less than one year than Bush spent in 2 reckless terms?
The unnecessary and botched Iraq war alone, which Dumbya kept OFF the books for 7 years, has cost over a trillion dollars, NOT including the cost of the Afghan debacle which he ignored for 7 years.
And you want to talk about reality based?
You don’t even know what it means.
‘My bet is that many of these people voted for Pres Obama, and they now realize they bought a pig in a poke, and they are pissed.’
That’s so ludicrous it’s laughable.
‘Blatant bigotry, ignorance, and intolerance is quite noticable here in Ollieland amongst the left set.’
You’re insane.
What’s with all the guessing, all of a sudden?
If these people are pissed off and vocal, and willing to get off their duffs to gather together and commiserate, then that is significant.
I find characterizations like “lily white, old, and lower-middle class” to be repellent, and significant of a serious divide in this country. It just so happens that I answer Census questions as “white”, when, in fact, I have little in common with most of the white people who live in my city. I am offended when people call me “old”, as if it is a stigma; and there was a time when lower middle class and working class were the same things.
This has to end — you guys won an election, you did not take over the United States. After bailing out people who were already rich, your team slapped a near trillion deficit on the American people to cover the asses of the last Democrats who screwed up, who are still in office. How you want to increase that deficit by nearly a trillion dollars to impose upon people who neither want it or need it, a health care system that offers the worst of all HMO’s.
Are you that blind? These people are not racists… They are not rich people, selfishly clinging to their wealth. They are frightened , they have been deceived , and they are PISSED OFF !
Wanna whistle past the graveyard , and call them “old, lily white, and lower middle class” [code for "who cares about them , anyway?"]
Remember this : elections are won and lost on the shores of the Mississippi , not on the Atlantic and Pacific.
Any word yet on how much they were paid to attend?
Frank DiSalle:
“September 13, 2009 at 7:47 am
Rotter: Could you possibly be any stupider ? (I suppose you could — surgery maybe, toxic fumes)
”
I think you missed a joke. It seemed to be a pretty obvious reference to the faux outrage over Obama’s use of “lipstick on a pig.”
I see Jr hasn’t been paying attention to the details from his observation post to the north.
Re: Govt. Spending
See stimulus package, passed; cap and trade, proposed; healthcare nationalization, proposed.
Re: blatant racism and intolerance etc.
See typical comments here and on other liberal venues filled with hate, anger, and ignorance
about conservatives, Reublicans, middle America, etc.
Indeed,
I saw some disrespect but nothing racist. There was a sign I recall about Obama being undocumented, while the validity of the sign may be debated it is a natural to have questions regarding the birth place of individual whose father was a forigner, who went to school in a maderass in a forign land and whose grandmother appears to assert her grandson was born in her native land. Refusal to provide transparency on the issue does little to dispell questions.
The idea of watchdogging tax dollars is always a good one.
But the wingnuts have a lot to prove after so many of them have continuously proven themselves incapable of doing this rationally and without bias. They are in desperate need of a leadership which is competent. But sadly, competent government leadership is an oxymoron for them. Quite a pickle, I’d say.
As for the photos, a great idea. Meets and beats anything at Zombietime.
“old, lily white, and lower middle class” [code for "who cares about them , anyway?"]
Old-60's and older. It was indicative of my point. At what point is someone old? when they are 90? If 2/3 of your life is lived then I think it is fair to say OLD.
Lily white- Would white suffice? I am white and have no problem with their race so much as this movement is made up of predominetly if not entirely older white citzens. It doesn't mean that everyone in this group is a racist, but you STILL can't explain this phenomena nor explain the signs, comparisons to Hitler(a racist)etc... I think you CAN understand this but REFUSE to accept my observation or the simple fact of the crowd makeup.
Lower Middle Class- Have family that fits this mold. I hold ZERO scorn for thier jobs. Dare I say I may care MORE for this class because I see thier children each and everyday in the classroom and want them to succeed and have a great future. "Working Class" supposes that they "work" as opposed to other economic classes sit on thier ass. By defenition of thier salary using "Lower Middle Class" is appropriate. Nobody is more important than another in my eyes. The janitor is just as vital to my school as are the secretaries, speech teachers, and administration. Honestly, both Democrats and Republicans will never DEFINE middle class because they are probably both wrong.
Oliver lives in DC. All he has to do is go down there and observe. Virtually all of the attendees are European Caucasian. There’s a lot of grey hair and middle aged paunch. Hair and clothing styles are conservative and/or uniformly weekend casual. No tattoos. Definitely no rock star hair.
Nobody would say these pics came from a black pride event, or a gay pride parade. This was obviously not a labor union rally, or a Redskins victory celebration, or even a teachers convention.
Sorry folks, but if you think you’re looking at a complete representation of real America, you’re not getting out enough.
FDS, the next time you eat spaghetti, you may want to consider that tomato cultivation originated with South American Indians, and the noodles were invented by the Chinese. Beyond that, diversity of character and intellect are absolute requirements for successful progressive human civilization. Whoops, I said “progressive”.
Obama = John Riggins? Time to push through health care reform like the Diesel would ram through the Dallas D-line.
Lee Atwater had it right. “You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Nigger, nigger, nigger,’ ” said Atwater. “By 1968, you can’t say ‘nigger’ — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.”
In 2009, you just demand to see the president’s birth certificate.
Viewed thru that lens, it makes perfect sense that so many belligerent, lower-middle class aging white folks wouldn’t WANT something that would actually, you know, HELP them. Socialism my ass. It’s because it might help them dirty brown folks too.
derF: I have heard all that “we got this from them” and “that from them”, all my life. I know all about it .
The idea that noodles came from China is a myth. Pasta was made and eaten in Roman times .
And what makes you think I’ll be eating spaghetti? Maybe I hate spaghetti, you bigot!
What a jerk you are! Trying to school me on diversity with a remark like “The next time you eat spaghetti”. What did you think ? “Tuesday night is Prince spaghetti night in the DiSalle household”?
God, you guys are pathetic!
“The next time you eat spaghetti”
ZOMFG!
The idea that this has anything to do with “fear of a black President” is such a monstrous accusation, that you should , if you possessed an ounce of intellectual honesty, feel compelled to provide some evidence that it is true – not just meandering speculation based on ludicrous speculation about the elderly as bigots and racists. These people you call racists and bigots, may have worked and lived alongside non-white minorities all their lives; may have hired blacks and Hispanics under tremendous societal pressure; fought wars against racial supremacists like Hitler and Tojo;faced dogs and fire hoses in the South, and you label them as racists because they are OLD?
You should be ashamed of yourselves, if that were possible.
You disgust me. I pray to God you never experience the bigotry and prejudice that has stunk up this thread today… You phony fucking bastards !
Oliver, I’m beginning to view your website comments threads as flypaper that keeps dangerous, obsessive morons like Dennis, Frank and the Jays off the streets and incapable of doing anything truly harmful.
They could be actually out there, advancing their wingnut agenda but the spend a ridiculous amount of time here posting talking points and spreading FUD to a very small audience that they’ll never sway. So thank you for that amoung the other things you do.
Ah, nothing like phony sanctimony lobbed fresh from the belch hole of a troll to warm the cockles of my little rat heart.
I also enjoy how he assumes we don’t know who we’re dealing with here, as if we’ve never met any of these people in person, nor read about their organizing on Stormfront, nor even perhaps experienced a little of their bigotry ourselves.
NonoNOnono, the bigotry is all ours, you see. And it is poor widdle innocent ignoramuses like Frank who are the real victims.
Because it is Obama’s fault that Bush sunk us into the deepest deficit of all time, launched two unsustainable wars, drove dump trucks of money over to all his corporate cronies, legalized torture, spied on us, etc. etc. etc.
And now, worst of all, Obama wants to make sure everyone in America has access to health care.
Tremble before Frank’s moral authority. For some reason the words “Lying, vicious, callous goat-fucker” come to mind.
Umm… are you sure these pictures were taken at a Teabagger’s rally? It looks more like a convention of Weight Watchers.
Well, let the “Beckerheads” have their day, there’s not a lot of fun in their lives from the look of it, obviously they really like to eat and they never did have time to learn spelling or English usage. They are a sad bunch, I wish there really would be a rapture and it took them all away, what a wonderful world it would be!!!
I see the comment:
Could anyone even demonstrate that diversity contributes to right thinking in any regard?
For example, can a black man, a chinese man, a hispanic man, and an American Indian do a better job of unraveling the Pythagorean Theorem than four white people ? Or vice versa?
So I answer at 2:37 pm, in polite rational fashion. I get back:
you bigot!
What a jerk you are!
God, you guys are pathetic!
You should be ashamed of yourselves, if that were possible.
You disgust me.
I pray to God you never experience the bigotry and prejudice that has stunk up this thread today.
You phony fucking bastards !
Get help Frank.
AO:“The funniest part is you’re serious. Liberty and freedom are the polar opposites of the liberal Democratic agenda. The welfare state where the people look to the govt. instead of to them selves for solutions is the antithesis of individual freedom and liberty.”
Your ability to read is rather limited. You will notice that I didn’t mention what’s happening today, I think it’s a joke, but that’s not what I referred to. I said if they were concerned about “liberty, freedom and mistrust of the ever increasing power of the govt. to meddle with more and more aspects of daily life”, you would’ve been protesting during the Bush years. I gave examples. Your response? Ignorant distraction. To quote a lousy coach, “You are who we thought you were”.
for all the people who doubt that the teabagger movment is racially motivated, I would like to offer these observations.
1) Joe Wilson ignored the words in the bill Obama was promoting and interrupted his speech. something never done before. Wilson was (allegedly) a member of Sons of Confederate Vetrans. I am pretty sure Confederate veterans did not like Black people.
2) Pres. Bush lied repeatedly about the reasons to invade Iraq. This war has cost thousands of lives and bankrupted our nation. no protest from the Right. Obama proposes to offer affordable healthcare to millions of Americans. suddenly the Right is filling the streets
3) Pres. Bush signed the bank bailouts. the financial crash happened before the election. if you recall, the candidates debated this very issue. the auto industry bailouts were set up by Pres. Bush. Federal Deficit; also Bush. Recession, stock market crash, record levels of unemployment: the Republican Party has been running the show for 6 of the last 8 years. And yet, how many times have we heard the term “Obama Recession?”
4) Senator McCain is a foreign born citizen. he is from Panama. Yet conspiracy theorists invented the claim that Obama is foreign born, and when he was gracious enough to present his birth certificate, the wingnuts chose to believe their own fantasy over the reality.
couple this with the very real vitriol directed at Obama for being black, the racist remarks, the crude comics. its not hard to connect the racist fringe with the illogical political fringe. It would be something if the Teabaggers had legitimate concerns (beyond a hatred of taxes) but its the desperate grasping at hilariously false lies like Death Panels that make me, and others, wonder where this hate is coming from
I have no problem with people protesting against specific policies (this is what the anti-war protesters did). But the Obama=Hitler=Stalin=noncitizen nonsense is irrational and comes off wacko and yes, racist.
Bush kidnapped, tortured, created Soviet-style gulags, spied without warrants, harassed journalists, and gave billions to Abramoff-linked shell companies. Where were the teabaggers?
W squandered a big budget surplus, tanked a bull market, and spent drunkenly on things that in no way represented an investment in the country–it was all just a give-away to war profiteers and people who are already billionaires and who had no intention of creating jobs here at home. Where were the teabaggers then?
Where were the 1st Amendment screamers when progressive protesters were getting arrested for their t-shirts, when they were being thrown out of Bush townhalls for their bumperstickers, and when they were caged into “free speech zones” miles away from events? Why didn’t teabaggers scream when Bush townhall attendees were required to sign LOYALTY OATHS?
That’s why nobody believes teabaggers now.
Obama’s spending has been in an effort to clean up W’s mess, help people left behind, and re-invest in the nation. Not many progressives agreed with Obama giving money to the banks, but the ‘cons didn’t say a word when W did it.
That’s why nobody believes teabaggers now.
Most teabaggers I’ve tried to argue policy with CAN’T argue policy, because they’ve been so misinformed by the FOX News contingent. They scream and call names because they have no facts.
Also, this “left/right” construction is silly. Many of us are still against the war (though Obama didn’t lie us into a war or attack an unarmed nation, like W did. Obama inherited a war). Rachel Maddow, for example, has been very aggressive in her criticism of Obama’s escalation of the war in Afghanistan.
Many of us progressives have been against many things that Obama does, and we speak up. But we’re arguing policy. And we didn’t paint Bush as Hitler, though he kidnapped and tortured and murdered people by the thousands, just as Hitler did. And the teabaggers call Obama “Hitler” for wanting to give people the same decent healthcare that every other peaceful industrialized democracy already offers? Nuts, dude. Nuts.
But keep it up. GOP numbers remain in the tank. Keep letting Glenn and Rush lead your party over a cliff.
Frank,
Oliver’s pictures tend to support his notions that conservative teabaggers are very much white, elderly, ideological and wingnutty. His noting that Michelle Malkin was off by a factor of at least 28, supports his notions that popular conservative pundits will grossly inflate claims of conservative populism. Your uncontrolled namecalling, supports my notion that most regular conservative commenters here are hopelessly wingnutty. As for noodles, eat this: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1481004.htm
The Klan comes to DC. The trailer parks must have been deserted this weekend.
They’re Xenophobes and Bigots…No racist!
Racist have power to inflict harm (like police or judges or your boss), these people have no power! Just Fear and Hate and Lies!
I’ve seen more color in a bowl of RICE than I saw in that CROWD yesterday!
So YES its about race!
Frank DiSalle: The idea that this has anything to do with “fear of a black President” is such a monstrous accusation, that you should , if you possessed an ounce of intellectual honesty,
I always break out laughing when I get to that part. Frank, of all people, accusing someone of lack of intellectual honesty. (Or honesty of any kind, for that matter.)
and you label them as racists because they are OLD?
No, Frank. If you weren’t as lacking in intellectual capacity as you are in intellectual honesty then you’d recognize that the many have already explained the racist tag is used not because they are old, but because their objections suddenly arise when there is a non-white President and actually respond to that point.
I pray to God you never experience the bigotry and prejudice that has stunk up this thread today
You’re utter lack of self-awareness is awesome, Frank.
canadian bacon, “Any word yet on how much they were paid to attend?” Nope, no Union or Acorn brown shirts at this event, surprising though I would have thought that the Union had more power.
Jody, “For some reason the words “Lying, vicious, callous goat-fucker” come to mind.” The intellectual capacity of this blog still makes we weep for our future. But at least jody admits to having, “a little rat heart” perhaps Obama Care could help here get a human one.
Repack Rider (AKA Bender), What Bender is saying about the Demographic, of Marin County, is it is the land of Boxer, where she started out, I remember watching a (live, I was there) debate between her and a true American, Col. John Kern, and I watched in awe and amazement, as she stated to cry on the stage.
Oh and the other thing Bender fails to Mention, the Democrats feeling sorry for blacks, created a little piece of underfunded crap called Marin City, a little haven where the rich democrats could go and do their “duty” to help the poor, without crossing a bridge, (they are lazy this way) , the whole time making sure the Sausalito, and Mill Valley police, had the Black “guests” under control, Yep the land of Boxer, kiss the black baby to get elected, but make sure their out of the neighborhood by dusk.
Oh and Bender sounds like you grew up there as did I, are you going to tell the crowd here that the KKK (democratic membership committee) was active there until the mid to late 70’s. Now you don’t have to believe me, you can contact Prof. Walter Turner, in the African Studies Department of College of Marin, or call his radio show on KFPK. He is a friend of mine, and one of the finest people I have ever had the pleasure to know. When discussing issues he never has to call people names (sans Bender) he is interested in solutions. As am I.
Oh one other thing Bender is the Fairfax Theater still open?
So Sayeth the Impaler!
freD: FDS, the next time you eat spaghetti, you may want to consider that tomato cultivation originated with South American Indians, and the noodles were invented by the Chinese.
Frank DiSalle: And what makes you think I’ll be eating spaghetti? Maybe I hate spaghetti, you bigot!
What a jerk you are! Trying to school me on diversity with a remark like “The next time you eat spaghetti”. What did you think ? “Tuesday night is Prince spaghetti night in the DiSalle household”?
Now this is interesting. Because derF choose to use spaghetti in his example Frank immediately assumes it’s a dig at his ancestry and takes extreme offense at what he sees as the use of an Italian stereotype.
But use watermelons on the White House lawn in a comment on Obama and that’s not a racist-based remark. No, sir. Not at all.
Alexander Hamilton created the (first) Bank of the United States. The charter was allowed to expire in 1811. A Second Bank of the US was chartered in 1816. Jackson vetoed its recharter in 1832.
The reason race plays a part in this is because of the staggeringly obvious double standard these idiots apply to a black, liberal president.
When bush was in power, his tax brackets were patriotic. Fox News was very clear that criticizing the president in a time of war was tantamount to treason. It emboldened the enemy and killed American soldiers.
Suddenly, an educated, successful black man wins the presdency, and every backwater asshat with a gun rack is screaming about small government and executive overreach.
Where in the fuck were you with your hitler comparisons when Dear Leader Bush was signing orders to torture an American citizen, or was just signing away his responsibility to the rule of law?
Well, he was a saved white man, chosen by god, so it was all good, I guess. Now everyone’s a fucking watchdog.
It’s as if 50,000 libertoon internet trolls converged on one spot, mated, screamed and threw their feces, and then patted each other on the back about it.
/golfclap
This is interesting. I used spaghetti because I was eating it at the time (I often blog during meal times). I guess I could have used a hot dog as my example, but I might have offended Randy Brown, who’s a big fan of frankenfurter.
Frank, Don’t let those small of mind make you mad, lets break down Sean’s argument (for lack of a better term), somehow “Diversity” to some in this blog means “group think, or lack of mental diversity”, Example of the way some people think here.
“You don’t think like we do, so you must be racist, we believe in Diversity, but in only as deep as the skin, never ideas”
Frank, a lot of Democrats think this way, so I choose not to interact with them, or keep it to a minimum. What I am looking for is that small percentages in both parties, than can actually articulate a point, not just mimic Olbermann, or Hannity, but people who are smart enough to back their positions with fact.
Now as to the lack of Blacks at the Rally yesterday, they did have black speakers, and two, 97 percent of the Black vote went to Obama, Assuming the crowd was 250,000 over the day, then mathematically there would be 1,461 Blacks in the crowd over the day, the assumptions would be that 3 percent of Blacks for voted Republican. For Jody I’ll make this even easier for you, this means that for every 171 White people there was 1 black man. Now I did the math fast, and going off very rough numbers, but I would say its close. It was not about racism, it is about election mathematics, any questions class?
So lectureth the Impaler!
Did you see any “Keep the government away from my Medicare” signs?
Absolutely Frank. Don’t stop posting here. It provides us with endless entertainment and more than likely keeps you from going postal.
Besides, everyone knows that if a black guy appears at a rally then there’s no prejudice at all among the people there. That’s why Log Cabin Republicans enjoy such prominence within the big tent that is the GOP.
Also, 60-70 thousand is the new quarter million, but only if the people represented are right wingers. It’s sort of like the old 3/5s of a man, but in reverse. Each wingnut shall now count as at least four votes, depending on their race, creed, and body weight. Which is why Palin/Wilson/thePlumber is going to win by eleventy billion percent in ‘012. Bank on it, libs!
Republicans hate being called liars and bigots for the same reason cockroaches hate it when you turn the light on.
Jody, still showing up to battle unarmed is see, okay, I will do this one more time for you my dear, at 70,000 people (your figure) there would be a roughly, 409 Blacks in attendance, this again is not racist, unless you want to discuss the fact that one race voted 97 percent in favor of a man that looked the same?
So Sayeth Jody’s math tutor!
Car Detailer:
Oh and the other thing Bender fails to Mention, the Democrats feeling sorry for blacks, created a little piece of underfunded crap called Marin City, a little haven where the rich democrats could go and do their “duty” to help the poor, without crossing a bridge, (they are lazy this way) , the whole time making sure the Sausalito, and Mill Valley police, had the Black “guests” under control
Everyone who works for me comes from Marin City, and everyone who works for me is Black. I’m the only white guy I have ever seen in what they call the 2-lot there who doesn’t carry a badge and a gun. I went to high school with the kids from there and I am often the only white person in a fairly large crowd there.
Law enforcement in Marin City is conducted by assholes. I have been stopped there by the sheriff for “driving while white,” a badge of honor if you ask me. Because I am known to associate with the locals, I have been made an “honorary Black man,” subject to the same harassment by the sheriff’s deputies that my friends are subject to, an eye opener for a white guy who has never been arrested.
The reason I hire my people from there is A) they are American citizens B) they speak English C) I can find six-foot tall, 200# guys there, D) because unemployment is high there, I have no trouble finding hard-working, motivated, smart guys.
Marin City is a pocket of poverty because it is a place you move out of as soon as you can afford to. When I was young, there was de facto segregation in Marin County, and every Black resident lived there. Those days are gone, and our neighborhoods now reflect the true diversity of America.
The Fairfax Theater is still open, and even screened “Klunkerz,” the documentary about the history of mountain biking in our fair community in which I am a featured player. Nice to see yourself on the big screen while surrounded by your friends.
Liberty and freedom are the polar opposites of the liberal Democratic agenda. The welfare state where the people look to the govt. instead of to them selves for solutions is the antithesis of individual freedom and liberty. But you don’t get that.
That’s just moronic. “Liberty and freedom” does not mean “every man for himself”. If that’s what you want, an every-man-for-himself country, fine, then move to Iraq. Here’s some news for ya, the government solves just as many of your problems (that you’d be pissed off about if they didn’t solve) as they do for anyone on welfare.
Millions of Americans have died to supply you your freedom. Tens of millions have lost loved ones to supply you with your freedom. And you’re going to whine because you’re required to help provide someone with a meal? Because you might be required to help someone go see a doctor? Since i’m an atheist, I guess i’ll see ya in hell.
AO – “Diversity for the sake of diversity doesn’t really get you much.”
You can’t pick and chose, diversity is what real life is. You can choose your gated community if you like, but here in the real world, it’s all about diversity. It’s not a choice except the decision to deny it.
.03 x 250,000 = 7500
171 x .03 = 5.13
@ impaler, without diversity your little Darwinian world would never exist. There’s no evolution without diversity. Without diversity, we’d all be picking a banjer on the Mississippi River, squealing like pigs.
70,000 x (1.00-.97) = 2100
Repack,
Yea, I helped Walter Turner in the early 80’s in Marin City, as a young white guy it was an experience, never any problems, they respected the Professor.
I am glad things have changed for the better there, Oh, and by the way, I was the Manager of the Fairfax Theater while going to College of Marin, and made my first millions with a small software company there called Autodesk, you may have heard of it. I was the 13th employee hired at the company, when our offices were two condos located behind the HoJo’s in Mill Valley.
Repack, you sound like a good guy, may not agree on politics, but, that is not everything, So sayeth the Impaler!
60-70000 was the crowd estimate by the DCFD. DC park Police stopped doing official estimates.
Organizers always wildly multiply the number of people actually there, no matter who is rallying on the Mall.
I like how the official wingnut tally has dropped from 1-2 million to a modest 250K, which is still laughable. Just the fact that they ever tried to say, look at all 2 million of you, when we all saw what almost 2 million looks like when Obama was inaugurated shows how fucking lame Freedumb Werks is.
Oh, and tons of photos coming out of all the ‘patriotic’ garbage and trash and American flags just thrown down and left behind. But at least they all paid their own way, by god!
“Don’t Back Down” + A Bee = Most Unclear Sign Of The Day.
It’s not a bee, it’s a WASP. As in Don’t back down, wasps.
fredD, yea I actually started writting a complicated algorithim on my white board, take into account pop density, voting patterns, and of them whom if voted would actually get involved, all of this before I stated “rough”, then I had to stop and say why am I going to do two hours worth of work for a blog post.
But congrats, oh by the way, can you show Jody how you arrived at the answer, simple mathmatics is a stepping stone. Thanks. Oh and BTW I will stick to my number as a closer estimite to the true number.
So Sayeth Prof. Impaler!
Oh, and tons of photos coming out of all the ‘patriotic’ garbage and trash and American flags just thrown down and left behind.
Obviously put there by the left to make the good Republican citizen protestors look bad.
Right Dennis? Jay?
Burn, “Assuming the crowd was 250,000 over the day”.
You fail at reading comprehension.
So Sayeth Prof. Impaler!
Impaler,
LOL! Autodesk programs are shiny marketed crap. I recently used Inventor at a job and after the thing proved it’s inherent instability and crashed repeatedly, for all users, our poor struggling IT guy proclaimed that compared to Catia, Solidworks, Unigraphics and ProEngineer (all of which I’ve used) that Inventor was garbage and Autodesk support was the worst he’d ever seen. I agreed completely. You can’t even do math at the second grade level. And you were a part of that mess?
What are you need complex algorithms to figure percentages for?
“I actually started writting a complicated algorithim on my white board, take into account pop density, voting patterns, and of them whom if voted would actually get involved, all of this before I stated “rough”, then I had to stop and say why am I going to do two hours worth of work for a blog post.”
Translation: “The math is really simple and I’ve already done some internal crunching that gave me unflattering outcomes I weren’t expecting. Therefore, I’m going to respond by pretending that it’s a waste of time figuring out something I just found out because the true answer doesn’t help what I’m arguing.”
durablend, maybe they were tring to help the union street sweepers keep their jobs? Besides do you know how much they make! Let them do there job.
So Sayeth the Environmentalists!
Impaler: Frank, Don’t let those small of mind make you mad, lets break down Sean’s argument (for lack of a better term), somehow “Diversity” to some in this blog means “group think, or lack of mental diversity”, Example of the way some people think here.
Danged if I can figure out just what argument, “argument” or comment of mine regarding Diversity you think you’re “breaking down”.
12:50 – Made argument that folks opposed to health care reform don’t give actual reasons for their opposition.
4:34 – Made observation that Frank’s a dishonest idiot who fails to address the arguments actually being made.
4:48 – Made observation that Frank demonstrates some hypocrisy again.
Care to clarify what it is I said that you’re rebutting? And care to make any actual rebuttal to it?
Whew, here in Houston we’d call this a Klan rally. I haven’t seen that many white people assembled in one place in years. It’s not representative of my world. Thank God!
See guys? Again, the presence of any minorities at all expunges the taint of racism from any and all attendees.
Everyone, bask in the wisdom of teh impaler. For after centuries of racism, he has discovered the formula to defeat it for all time is to simply have a few token black folks show up. Ta-daa!
So really, when Rob McCain suggested that Jews be “relocated” to rural districts traditionally hostile to them, it was so the racism would vanish from those districts like a fart in the wind.
Wow. I guess we really ARE the racists!
Impaler: unless you want to discuss the fact that one race voted 97 percent in favor of a man that looked the same?
Sure. Let’s discuss that. Let’s break down your argument.
You’re stating it’s a fact that the reason 97% of black voters voted for Obama is because of his skin color.
Not because of his policies. Not because they believed he would do a better job. But only because he is black.
And you didn’t say this was the reason for the majority, or some, or even a portion of the 97%. But this was the motivation for all 97%.
Making pretty broad statement there about an entire group of people, but explain to me how that isn’t racist.
chow shark, I knew someone would respond to this, first why would I want to make the number of Blacks who attended lower? You would think by the posts I would want it higher.
Now to the math, 3 percent of Blacks did not vote for Obama, let’s assume they all voted for McCain, based on your math if applied to Whites how voted for McCain then 10’s of millions of white people would have been there, we know this did not happen, so you have to take into account what we call “variables” that affect the outcome of this equation.
After I took into account “ROUGH” variables, I came to what I consider a very rough estimate, but better that freD’s simple math, which I applaud because he did better than most.
So Sayeth Prof. Impaler!
Detailer, there were not even close to 250K people being there yesterday over the course of the whole day. Laughable. And please just give up your stupid So sayeth crap already. It’s so lame and stale and flat. Just like right wing humor.
Impaler,
pop density, voting patterns, and of them whom if voted would actually get involved
Factors which would impact white voters differently?
[...] Oliver Willis went above and beyond in capturing the colorful mosaic that is Glenn Beck nation. I like this pic best: [...]
What is wrong with you people?
The democrats have had their boot on the throats of Blacks and Latino’s for years!!!! Are they better off? Why is race important?
First you say, “don’t see skin color people” then as soon as you can use it in your favor, you pull the race card!! What a bunch of morons!! Defend Acorn, defend SEIU, defend Code Pink! I defend the American flag! Why is a health-care even political? Why? This country is diving even more…I thought Obama was going to unite, but all I see is division and hate, and name calling! Before you say a word, yes!! Some of the signs are inappropriate, but that’s freedom of speech, I did not see you guys crying foul when Code Pink had Bush’s head on an aborted baby now did I! So relax on the hate, compromise, that’s what America is about!!!
I don’t think everyone is racist. I do believe that they are only now getting that their standard of living is shot to hell and want to blame everyone but themselves. If they admit that the Republican and Conservative policies of the last thirty years that they have supported so much have left them with little to show for their hard work they have to admit that they bought a ‘pig in a poke’ to quote someone earlier.
Don’t get me wrong, there are big problems in this country. Most of it being that our politicians, no matter their party no longer work for their constituents but for the biggest lobbyists on the K Street. But few in that crowd understood that even if they got everything on their wish list, things aren’t going to get better for them.
Sean, when one group by ethnicity, votes in a pattern in what can only be described as a statistical anomaly, then obviously there are some serious issues, and Racism is just one factor. And, yes I lead you here by my previous question; damn this is just too easy. I am going to love blogging.
We agree though that Racism is a factor in the 97 percent, I believe when mathematically compared to other ethnic groups that the number on racists in the Black demographic will be shown to be substantially higher, on average than other racial demographics. Now am I a racist, No. is Mathematics racist No. so can we just agree to the Chris Rock theory of race and be done with it.
So Sayeth the Impaler!
Oh, please. What’s so hard about it?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#USP00p1
Obama didn’t get 5% of the black vote
Obama didn’t get 55% of the white vote.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/voting/cps2008.html
32,267,000 blacks voted (of which Obama failed to get 5%)
218,200,000 whites voted (of which Obama failed to get 55%)
.05 * 32,267 = 1.6 million blacks not for Obama
.55 * 218,200 = 120 million whites not for Obama.
1.6 / 121.6 = .013
That is, 1.3% of those who didn’t vote for Obama were black.
So in a crowd of ~70,000 non-Obama supporters, you’d expect (70,000 * .013) ~910 blacks.
Jay says “It’s just amazing how the attitudes change when the parties change.”
We certainly agree on that.
Counting Reagan, GHW Bush, GW Bush and Obama there have been 20 years and eight months of deficit spending in the last 30 years.
There have been protests about deficit spending in the last eight months.
Claims that the administration’s politics have nothing to do with it are laughable.
fredD, as the above post says, Blacks vote in a statistically skewed way, this does throw the number off of simple mathematics. No, Factors that would affect Black turnout. Would most blacks feel comfortable amongst whites, or what I call the NASCAR effect. Even if Blacks supported the views in larger numbers, they would watch it on T.V. before, attending, or as for me, I hate crowds, so I won’t attend those events. But you get the idea. Getting close to a true number is complicated.
So blah blah blah the Impaler!
Impaler,
If you were ever into programming or any kind of engineering, KISS is Rule #1. Frank has obviously never been there because he gets emotionally mired in nitpicky details and minor faux pas, instead of staying focused on the bigger picture.
I never said the teabaggers were all racist, or that Frank was a “spaghetti eating wop” (and NO, I did not insult Frank there either but explained myself), but simply noted that from the pics, they do not appear to represent “crowds that look like America..” (as OW notes in the post right before this one).
The people in the pics look more like the suburban/rural conservative demographic (with all their own separate sets of issues and concerns) than they do the more liberal urban demographic.
Imponator,
Egotism is the anesthetic given by a kindly nature to relieve the pain of being a damned fool. – Bellamy Brooks
I love how in a round about way you admit this is truly a Republican issue(97% of blacks voted with Obama, so how could ANY of them agree with teabaggers?LOL). I appreciate your honesty of knowing that your party is lily white. You fail to address how the crowd isn’t largely hispanic, asian, middle eastern etc… I will just assume you also know that this movement just isn’t for anyone else but: older lower middle class white folks.
You can crunch numbers all you like, the fact remains this movement compares Obama to Hitler…again the most Notorious racist ever, and I should discount that racism doesn’t play a large part to this group? Even from a historical standpoint, it begs for the crowd to be littered with feelings of ill will towards a black president. These goons are the same who raise hell about the president speaking to school children. It is a viseral and irrational response to Obama.
You seem to love math alot and being a nifty keen inventor I’ll give you a simple math problem:
You have two butt hurt conservatives whining about thier beloved movement being labeled as racist. Then you get one more conservative whose inflated ego and comic strip sayings further prove everyone’s point. How many conservatives do you have?
Answer:
3 and one of them REALLY needs to get laid.
Sean, Congrats, you have the second best math skills here I will give you a B+, so what was the number I gave 409, Ok Sean, I believe we have an offical consence at oliverwillis.com,
Oliver, if you could make this official: The Tea Party held on September 12th, 2009, between 409 and 910 Blacks attended the rally.
So Sayeth the Impaler and Sean D. Martin!
So sayeth crap already. It’s so lame and stale and flat. Just like right wing humor.
No, no, keep it up please. Pompous and nerdy at the same time, es ist eine ausgezeichnete Verkörperung Ihrer Flügelnüsserei
White Whale, I just like being your Moby-Dick.
Impaler,
Do you believe Obama was born in the United States?
Wilbur
“ausgezeichnete” I love it! By and far one of the best words in the German language. Also up there in my book is langwielich. Makes me miss Germany alot:)
Oliver, if you could make this official: The Tea Party held on September 12th, 2009, between 409 and 910 Blacks attended the rally.
Doesn’t this assume that 100% of blacks who voted for someone other than Obama share the teabaggers’ level of wingnuttery?
Wilbur, seriously I am just having fun, aren’t you. I have yet to call someone a name, except “bender”, I have yet to answer every other blogger a racist, so some do not think I am funny, so some think my sarcasm is annoying, sure it is.
All I am trying to do is get people out of their comfort zone a bit, and see things a different way. After all this is what education is suppose to be about, free exchange of ideas, oh and I have a very thick skin, and enjoy a little give and take. So do you.
Danke -Impaler
See guys? 409 blacks=0 racists among the other 69,591 people there. Simple mathematics!
Wilbur, yep, there is a lot of variables.
Jody, ausgezeichnete, keep working the problem. Now come on Wilbur, am I really being snarky to Jody?
Amused Observer wrote: “As bad as Bush was for spending more money than he should have Obama makes him look like a miser.”
According to the accounting of the deficits for the next four years, Bush owns 70% of the current deficits (Iraq War, Afghanistan War, Tax Cuts, Increased Non-War Military Spending, among others). Thats even if you tack in Obama’s health care reform proposal.
I probably shouldn’t be surprised that the right is so disconnected from the facts that they want to pretend their Fearless Leader didn’t put us in the deficit hole we are in today.
As for the racism, its worth noting that in the 1960s, we were told by the American South that the Civil Rights Act contained provisions which would enslave white people. One teabagger held just such a sign, with “Civil Rights Act Plan” replaced with “Obama’s Plan.” There’s a photo of Arkansas protestors who insist that “race-mixing is Communist.” As most people, especially the birthers, know by now, Obama’s mom is white and his dad is black. This is reflected in the signs at teabagger protests accusing Obama of being Communist.
That’s ridiculous – keep trying to paint us as haters/racists.
Yeah, it’s so hard to portray conservatives as haters and racists. There’s just so little to work with there.
Yeah, come on Wilbur. He’d have to have a cogent point beyond “blacks are the real racists” to be snarky.
Between you and me, I think he believes math is somehow linked to snark. He keeps going on about it.
Either that, or he’s trying to find something to distract from the original point, which is that when tens of thousands of white folks showed up in DC, demanding to see the president’s birth certificate, and insisting he’s from Kenya, that there’s a darn good chance that more than a couple of them were there solely because they din’t want no brown guy in the WHITE house. And the presence of a few hundred blacks among them doesn’t change that fact.
But that would indicate a degree of intellectual dishonesty. Trolls never exhibit that, do they?
I remember watching a (live, I was there) debate between her and a true American, Col. John Kern
Are all other Americans fake?
I’ve never understood why conservatives think they can best prove their love of America by shouting loudly about how they hate so many Americans.
We get it. You all hate the liberals, and the blacks, and the gays, and especially the uppity women, and you’re hoping that America gets attacked again so all those people will learn a lesson. Just go ahead and enlist with Al Qaeda and make it official.
These dimwits finally protest because of, of all things, health care reform?
Down here, in the AZ boondocks, we’re tryin’ to figger out what’s wrong with a guy that’s tryin’ to fix stuff. Be pretty hard not to improve on the present situation re: health and taxes. Seems like he’s on our side. Mebee next time we’ll elect a green man, see what he’s got to say.
I still find it hard to believe guys like Impaler, Jay, AO, Frank, and Dennis don’t get paid for trolling this site, given how many hours of their day they slavishly spend here.
derF: As for noodles, eat this: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1481004.htm
Just because Chines had noodles first , doesn’t mean that there would be no spaghetti without Chinese noodles. But you knew that, didn’t you?
And as for your disingenuous “When I said spaghetti, I didn’t mean Italians”, do you think that would fly, if I had said a similar thing about “rice and beans” and Sotomayor, or as another commenter pointed out, watermelon and Pres Obama?
the racist tag is used not because they are old, but because their objections suddenly arise when there is a non-white President and actually respond to that point.
Have you ever heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy? — I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
I couldn’t have called the anti-war protests in 2003 “organized.”
This is such a huge steaming pile of horseshit. OF COURSE the anti-war protests were organized. What, did thousands upon thousands of people just suddenly APPEAR at certain places to protest the war? Give me a freaking break.
The message I got from yesterday was that the size and composition of the crowd showed how far removed the teabaggers are from mainstream American thought
And this kind of thinking is wrong. The anti-war protests in 2003 were very large but had utterly no representation of what mainstream American thought was at the time (65% of Americans supported the Iraq war at the time). It’s just plain IDIOTIC to measure the pulse of Americans and their thoughts about a particular issue based on the size of protests.
It’s stupid. And yet the left continues to whistle past the graveyard thinking that because the protests don’t number in the hundreds of thousands that somehow the sentiment of tens of thousands of protesters is not shared by millions of people at home.
And Oliver, ALL WARS are wars of choice. The war in Afghanistan was a war of choice. And if people are truly ANTI-WAR. they’d protest the WAR. It was not a war of choice, but a protest of choice. Anti-Bush hatred largely fueled it.
White Whale, your conclusion that the protesters were racist because the crowed wasn’t “diverse” is insanely dumb. Obama still has 92% support in the black community so I wouldn’t expect a sea of black faces at the protests. But you go ahead and make it all about racism because that’s basically all the Democrats have left in the tank at this point.
And this kind of thinking is wrong. The anti-war protests in 2003 were very large but had utterly no representation of what mainstream American thought was at the time (65% of Americans supported the Iraq war at the time). It’s just plain IDIOTIC to measure the pulse of Americans and their thoughts about a particular issue based on the size of protests.
It’s stupid. And yet the left continues to whistle past the graveyard thinking that because the protests don’t number in the hundreds of thousands that somehow the sentiment of tens of thousands of protesters is not shared by millions of people at home.
Would someone please call the paramedics? Jay seems to have twisted himself into a knot.
Holy cats, Jay. Liberal protests, no matter how big, don’t represent the voice of the people. Conservative protests, no matter how small, reflect the will of the majority.
Is there any way you could make your double standards a little more blatant?
All I am trying to do is get people out of their comfort zone a bit,
If you have a coherent argument, make it. Save the dumb performance art bullshit for your family. They hate you, but they’re obligated to hear you out.
It’s pretty clear from these teabag protests that they’re basically full of a bunch of confederate-flag waving birther lunatics just finally coming off their high of ranting about how hillary killed vince foster. They really don’t represent anyone with any intelligent or valid arguments. They’re a bunch of dickheads who feel like they need to blow off steam because they still can’t get over having lost the 2008 election. And these people are a bunch of loser scum of the earth who were too lazy to get off their asses and oppose the bush administration. Not sure why they have any moral or intellectual credibility. They are not worthy of my attention or respect. They failed at life in a huge way over the past 8 years, so it’s pretty surprising for them to expect me to lend any credence to them now.
Impaler – “The intellectual capacity of this blog still makes we weep for our future.”
Hey dude, you’re the guy who still believes in social Darwinism. Don’t forget to wear your seat belt next drive or you might prove it to be true … in your case.
btw, What does “Keep pressure on Alinsky” even mean?
Since Alinsky’s been dead since 1972, I’m assuming that some psychic somewhere is making a killing by holding seances for really stupid conservatives.
freD: hey do not appear to represent “crowds that look like America..”
Actually, what does “America” look like?
I would think it really, really depends on what part you are looking at. America is, yes, diverse. Rural Vermont is not anything like southwest Texas is not anything like Seattle is not anything like Newark in not anything like ….
I still want to know where the protesters’ acid wash sweat pants are. What, it being a special occasion and all.
Impaler: Sean, Congrats, you have the second best math skills here I will give you a B+
…
So Sayeth the Impaler and Sean D. Martin!
Given I actually did the math you balked at I could take offense at “second best”.
And don’t be so presumptuous ass to declare anything for me.
Frank DiSalle: , or as another commenter pointed out, watermelon and Pres Obama?
Seriously, can anyone here be counted on to miss the point more than Frank?
Have you ever heard of the post hoc ergo propter hoc logical fallacy? — I saved you the trouble of looking it up.
Yes, I have. And if these folks are so upset over levels of gov’t spending, where were they during the Bush years? If they were so upset over gov’t intrusion into the lives of citizens, where were they during warrantless wiretapping? If they were so upset over gov’t (supposedly) threatening the 2nd Amendment, where were they when it was ignoring the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th and 8th?
Yes, Frank, I’m familiar with post-hoc and correlation/causation differences, too. You familiar with how to stay on point?
Quaker iaB: Holy cats, Jay. Liberal protests, no matter how big, don’t represent the voice of the people. Conservative protests, no matter how small, reflect the will of the majority.
Seriously! That is one for the record books.
Holy cats, Jay. Liberal protests, no matter how big, don’t represent the voice of the people. Conservative protests, no matter how small, reflect the will of the majority.
Once again your reading comprehension skills are suspect. Show me EXACTLY where I wrote that the conservative protests reflect the will of the majority. I didn’t. What I did point out is that the thought process which leads one to conclude that because the protest had ‘only’ 75,000 people, it only represents some fringe element of the American electorate and not a larger portion is STUPID and so is the assertion that large protests represent the vast majority of the electorate.
Please learn to read for content Quaker.
It’s pretty clear from these teabag protests that they’re basically full of a bunch of confederate-flag waving birther lunatics just finally coming off their high of ranting about how hillary killed vince foster. They really don’t represent anyone with any intelligent or valid arguments. They’re a bunch of dickheads who feel like they need to blow off steam because they still can’t get over having lost the 2008 election.
Quaker, see what I mean? Case in point.
Next.
Just to be clear, “millions of people” does not mean “majority” because I suspect that is where somebody is going to PROVE BEYOND ANY DOUBT that I asserted conservative protests reflect the will of the majority.
Jeebus H. Christmas.
Speaking of reality…
Last I heard, a majority of people favored the public option, a vast majority favored major reform in health insurance.
I don’t know how many have a serious question about the president’s citizenship, but I suspect the percentage is pretty minuscule.
In some polls – not all – I understand that the president is scoring below 50% job approval which means – horror of horrors! – he only outscores congressional republicans by 250% or so. But in any case I think its likely that a pretty small percentage of those who disapprove of his job performance would agree with the characterization of his as “socialist”, “nazi”, “fraud” or any of the other majik-marker epithets one sees in profusion at teabag rallies.
In short, these wackoes don’t represent anything like a groundswell of public sentiment, they represent a wacky minority of bitter, angry soreheads.
Nevertheless, in a populace of 300,000,000 give or take, even a tiny minority can equal a whole season or two of capacity crowds at the Rose Bowl. It’s conceivable that with a lot of preparation, organization, and publicity, the fell forces behind the teabag events could draw a million or two to the mall. Didn’t happen this time, but it’s conceivable. Even if they did, though, they would still represent a wacky minority of bitter, angry, soreheads.
Do I paint with too broad a brush? Perhaps. I’m sure there are at least some teabaggers who are genuinely concerned about what they see as imprudent government policies, who are then antithesis of racist, who are even black or a member of another minority themselves, who only want to, who see the president as honorable and well-intentioned but misguided, who only want to express their concern forcefully, but respectfully.
How big a percentage of the crowd is that kind of teabagger? I have no idea, really. But if you consider all the different nutjob groups that frequent these things: the ax-handle racists, the birthers, the Larouchites, the Ron Paulians, the Randians, the Libertarians, the dittoheads, the Beckbots, the folks with the swastika signs, the folks with the hammer-and-sicle sign, the folks who are still bringing up Bill Ayers and Saul Alinsky, etc. etc…..
Even if each of these groups is only a teeny tiny part, what they all add up to together is a container-ship’s worth of wack, and it doesn’t leave much room for the sane ones.
Wilbur, in short, the same could be said of the anti-war protesters where a lot of them consisted of IndyMedia freaks, ANSWER dorks, CodePink nutjobs, truther wackos, MoveOn.org left wingers, Not In Our Name leftists, etc.
Again, a visual guide to remind people of the history:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=612
But now we can get back to reality instead of relying on asinine stereotypes that require little intellectual thought.
Wilbur says:
Last I heard, a majority of people favored the public option, a vast majority favored major reform in health insurance.
In short, these wackoes don’t represent anything like a groundswell of public sentiment, they represent a wacky minority of bitter, angry soreheads.
Really? One of the reasons why people were protesting was because of deficit spending (WHAT ABOUT BUSH?!??! – There I did it for you guys) which has gone into the stratosphere with President Obama. President Obama said his proposals would not add ONE DIME to the federal deficit. Yet polls, so 52% of Americans don’t believe it can be accomplished without deficit spending.
56% of Americans have a negative view on how Obama is performing on deficit spending. 50% have a negative view on how he is performing with regard to taxes. He also has negative marks on the economy and a majority have a negative view on how he is handling the issue of health care.
Are you really going to sit there and seriously argue that these protesters represent only a small tiny fraction of Americans?
your conclusion that the protesters were racist be…”
Didn’t say anything about not enough black faces= racism and its rather simple minded that no black Obama voters have different thoughts and concerns. They are just all mindless zombies who follow dear Leader, right? If you actually cared to read, I said that NOBODY but white folks seems to be represented, not just black people. Nice try though. I also pointed out that comparing Obama to Hitler probably puts you in that racist camp. I also made the point that the country itself(makeup wise) is changing and its scaring the shit out of these folks. Its not all white anymore and thier neibhorhood is more diverse, UNLIKE this crowd. The population is no longer stuck in the 40’s utopia myth. I could go on endlessly about how much you have missed but like Frank and AO, your really not interested in addressing the older, white, lower middle class that are the staple of these crowds. At least the Imponator admits this is a purely Republican issue which begs the question: Is this really what the Republicans are all about? About as dynamic as a pet rock.
What I did point out is that the thought process which leads one to conclude that because the protest had ‘only’ 75,000 people, it only represents some fringe element of the American electorate and not a larger portion is STUPID
And yet you’re quick to say that a protest that drew many more than 75,000 “respresents some fringe element of the American electorate.”
It’s just amazing how you can assert something in one breath and refute it in the next.
And yet you’re quick to say that a protest that drew many more than 75,000 “respresents some fringe element of the American electorate.”
I did? Where?
I did? Where?
Right here:
The anti-war protests in 2003 were very large but had utterly no representation of what mainstream American thought was at the time (65% of Americans supported the Iraq war at the time). It’s just plain IDIOTIC to measure the pulse of Americans and their thoughts about a particular issue based on the size of protests.
You seem to be arguing that if 100,000 people protest something, it’s not indicative of a larger movement, but if 70,000 people protest something, that’s proof that a “larger portion” of people support it.
Wilbur, in short, the same could be said of the anti-war protesters where a lot of them consisted of IndyMedia freaks, ANSWER dorks, CodePink nutjobs, truther wackos, MoveOn.org left wingers, Not In Our Name leftists, etc.
Thanks for the link, Jay, I clicked through them and you’re right, some of those signs are way over the top, some of them silly, some of them offensive and some of them just plain wrong.
A handful of those signs are completely indefensible. In the defense of all the others (and, as a side note, let me point out that in contrast to the typical right-wing MO here, I did condemn the excesses before speaking a word of defense), what they were protesting was a war that had already been shown to be an utter fraud and an utter failure, and had already cost the lives of thousands of Americans and allies, and countless tens of thousands of Iraqis.
In contrast, what are the teabaggers protesting? A president who has, in seven months, got the economy moving in the right direction, kept the banking system from collapsing, saved some of the country’s largest corporations from annihilation, committeed no obvious major fuckups in foreign affairs, gotten closer than any president has before to genuine reform of our malfunctioning health care, and, what else? what else? oh, right, ushered in a regime of deficit spending unmatched (as a percentage of GDP) since the latter days of WWII when, as we all know, massive government spending absolutely destroyed the US economy (that last bit is sarcasm, Jay, in case you can’t tell).
Those war protestors were excessive, but the line between righteous outrage and excess is exceedingly fine.
The teabaggers – they’re just soreheads. Pathetic, ignorant soreheads.
Photos like this make me sooooo happy I left a hillbilly state and moved to Manhattan where 90% of us went for Obama.
I don’t have to see or ever converse with low-class AmeriKKKan GOP trash like these low-budget middle-aged cretins since it is completely void of that demographic. But sometimes I like peeking out of my bubble and visiting blogs like this to amuse myself.
Now regarding those defending of the lack of blacks in the crowds and attributing it to the low African-American GOP voting block…..where were all the Asians? Hispanics? Sure, they all voted for Obama by large numbers but when combining the non-Obama voting minorities we should at the very least see more than one non-Caucasian faces this a sea of whites! Come on now.
In any case, I love these photos! These signs made my day. LOL, the hillbillies of West Virginia invade Washington!
XOXO,
Liberal Elite
You seem to be arguing that if 100,000 people protest something, it’s not indicative of a larger movement, but if 70,000 people protest something, that’s proof that a “larger portion” of people support it.
Hmm. Fair enough. That wasn’t my intent. I merely meant to emphasize that public sentiment cannot be measured by the size of protests whether they are large or small.
SO WHAT ARE ALL THESE D-U-M-B GOPers GOING TO DO WHEN THE BILL PASSES?
,….you know it will pass, right? And nice try boosting the turnout numbers to 2 Million when you only had 50,000 in attendance.
What a joke. Racist idiots.
Obama has had seven months to correct that massive clusterfuck that was the Bush administration. So far? He’s doing a great job. And to use Republican logic, he has kept America safer longer than Bush did.
Obviously I think that’s a silly metric to use, but it’s the one dutifully screamed out by wing-nuts almost every day after 9/11/2001 — BUSH IS KEEPING US SAFE, EXCEPT FOR THOSE 3,000 DEAD CIVILIANS!
But Teabaggers have every right to show us what racist clowns they are, both by their silly protests and by the fact that when Bush was running up the biggest deficits in history, they didn’t lift a goddamn finger.
BTW, DOW 9,600. Dennis? Dennis?
LOL,
This racism thing sure seems one sided. Over and over again I see people making comments about how the protesters in DC are older and white as if that were a bad thing. It’s pretty funny how the perpetually annoyed can find racism everywhere yet seem oblivious to their own bigotry. We see these crowds described as lily white. Imagine the outrage if I described a crowd of black socialists as coal black and pointed out that they were bad for the country. LOL it’s the socialism that’s bad regardless of color but I disgress.
The protesters are the people who realize that they are going to get screwed after Obama turns our medical system into an inferior model. Impaler was kind enough to give a few basic statistical lessons to the illnumerate among us that give a plausible reason for a lack of blacks.
Are you guys serious in that you don’t understand the bee flag?
““Don’t Back Down” + A Bee =”
If I were to take a guess at it I would think the bee stands for African killer bee which I would guess stands for President Obama who’s half African, and for these pass few months have been accuse of going to kill old people.
So the sign is saying(from my guess)is “Don’t Back Down from the African killer Bee i.e Don’t Back Down from President Obama (who’s half African and what’s to kill us).
I do believe these people are being racist because if they were truly against government takeover then where were they for 8 years when we had a President doing exactly that.
How do people feel about knowing that Bush spent 950 million dollars to help Iraqis to have universal health care that WE the taxpayers paid for…….where was the outrage for that? I should make it more clearer than that. Where was the outrage(besides coming from the left) while Bush was giving OUR tax money away to another country so they could have health coverage for all not doing it for this country?
And yet the left continues to whistle past the graveyard thinking that because the protests don’t number in the hundreds of thousands that somehow the sentiment of tens of thousands of protesters is not shared by millions of people at home.
-Meaning they were too lazy or too stupid to make it there. Thanks for helping prove that.
Now about those Death Panels…
I don’t think there’s been a crowd of black socialists in America since the 1970’s.
But the racism thing? I ask a simple question: When Bush was blowing holes in the US budget, where were the teabaggers?
This racism thing sure seems one sided. Over and over again I see people making comments about how the protesters in DC are older and white as if that were a bad thing.
Being old and white are not bad things per se, but given the current demographics of the country it is worth pointing out when a “popular movement” seems to consist overwhelmingly of old white people.
Thing is, and what a lot of the teabaggers seem to be having trouble getting used to, is that “old, fat and white” is no longer the default setting for an American in public life (anywhere except the republican congressional caucus, republican conventions, and teabag parties). Take the example you provide:
Imagine the outrage if I described a crowd of black socialists as coal black and pointed out that they were bad for the country.
If you say “coal black” then yes, people might object, but if a newspaper headline were to describe such a rally as “Black Socialists Rally at Pet Cemetery” would anybody object to the headline? Forget the “lily white”, if a newspaper described the teabag rally as “Elderly White Tax Protesters Gather on Mall” would that be objectionable?
Wilbur,
You are making my point for me. The same people here that would be upset if I described a crowd as coal black and irrelevant because of it use the term lily white and make ignorant bigoted statements about people because they are white. What’s sauce for the goose etc. etc. etc.
The same people here that would be upset if I described a crowd as coal black and irrelevant because of it use the term lily white and make ignorant bigoted statements about people because they are white.
Wait wait wait. So when my friends were calling me “sharkbait” at the beach, I was supposed to scream at them for being racist and then walk off in a huff? Because being called “sharkbait” is just as bad as calling someone “spearchucker”?
Will someone please show me the memo that says we’re not allowed to make fun of our own ethnic group any more? Because according to Wilbur I’ve got a lot of mafia and drunken Irishman jokes I’m going to have to delete from my repertoire as being “racist” when told by someone of Italian and Irish descent.
‘See stimulus package, passed; cap and trade, proposed; healthcare nationalization, proposed.’
Gee, didn’t Dumbya pass one of those stimulus packages with no accountability whatsoever? How did that work out?
‘See typical comments here and on other liberal venues filled with hate, anger, and ignorance about conservatives, Reublicans, middle America, etc.’
Not that Right wing sites have anything similar or anything.
‘I saw some disrespect but nothing racist. There was a sign I recall about Obama being undocumented, while the validity of the sign may be debated it is a natural to have questions regarding the birth place of individual whose father was a forigner, who went to school in a maderass in a forign land and whose grandmother appears to assert her grandson was born in her native land. Refusal to provide transparency on the issue does little to dispell questions.’
Way to keep aiming low.
Because according to Wilbur…
I think you mean according to amused observer, ya dumb wick mop!
‘this again is not racist, unless you want to discuss the fact that one race voted 97 percent in favor of a man that looked the same?’
As opposed to the other 70,000 times a White candidate runs for office in the US and doesn’t get more support among Whites than other races?
Wilbur, You are making my point for me…
No, I’m not, but thanks for playing.
If there were a gathering of 70,000 blacks, or hispanics or hindoos, or antipodeans, you would not hesitate to comment on the racial and/or ethnic makeup on the crowd, and I dare say that unless they were marching for something you agreed with or against something you disagreed with. You would also resist the suggestion that your mentioning race was at all “racist”.
Similarly, when a gathering of 70,000 is composed disproportionally of whites I will not shrink from mentioning it.
My mentioning it does not mean I think that there’s anything wrong with being white or middle aged — I’m white and middle aged myself, and I like myself pretty well — but that the movement is not representative of the diversity of the population.
As for “ignorant bigoted comments about people because they are white”, maybe there are some up there in this thread (side query: how long does a thread have to go on before it becomes a rope?), but I haven’t seen them, nor have I made any. As for “lily white”, I take that in the context not to be a refernce to the objectionable whiteness of an individual, but the disproportionate whiteness of the crowd’s composition.
This guy’s sign sums up this blog quite nicely:
http://twitpic.com/hg0gm
So I’ll ask again, when Bush was spending us into the ground, where were the teabaggers?
The difference is that when one of theirs did it, it was A-OK. But an uppity black man having the nerve to become president?
The few teabaggers who aren’t racist are definitely hypocrites at best.
My favourite sign by far was “More Czars than the USSR”. This just proves how uneducated in history so many of these people are. They proudly wave these signs thinking “if czars are ruskies and USSR is ruskies” I can put it on the same sign. Look how smart I am!” Oh the beautiful irony. Kinda like the “Get a brain, moran” signs. I am not claiming the left wing protestors are immune to such inane signs but I’ve been seein’ me a whole large crop of them lately since the righties took over the asylum
Where were these same people when Bush was spending like a mad man? ($1 Trillion dollar tax cut)
Where were they when Bush signed in Medicare D (that is costing seniors more in prescriptions and Pharmaceuticals cashing in billions)?
Where were they when Bush spent 950 million in helping Iraqis get universal health care(single payer) on American taxpayers’ dime? Also Bush’s people help write the Iraqi Constitution that says that ever Iraqi will have universal health care i.e singer payer coverage….isn’t that socialism?…From a Republican President?
Where were they when Bush’s Patriot Act(which allows wire tapping: telephones, e-mail communications, medical, financial, and other records; eases restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States) went into affect?
It’s funny to me that all these things and more that people are afraid President Obama will do has already for 8 years during Bush’s presidency.
But clearly there is nothing racist going on, is there?
Jaim, wow, I you are right, I have had time waiting for my manufacturing plant in China to re-tool for 3 new electronic products that go to beta test, Oct 1, since my company has excellent management, I do not have to be everywhere at once, I will not always have this time. But thank you for your concern.
First, I would like to ask people to read the US Constitution, after all this is a political blog. This will help reduce a bit of the drag here, thanks.
Now as to the Constitution and how the budget is past and whom actually spends the money, The congress has the power of the purse, they pass the budget, they decide who gets what, the president can influence this but has no real power, but the Veto pen. For six of the eight years, President Bush’s political party was in power, but because they spent like drunken sailors, (independent tea partiers, voted democrat) a lot of Republicans stayed home out of frustration, and a major push from the Soros Democrats, they Regained control of the House and Senate, Now, I will chart out for you the mess we are in and the dates that they occurred, I use the Feds numbers, I hope everyone is good with that. The fiscal year starts on October 1st of each year.
2000 5.674 Trillion – Republican congress – Clinton
2001 5.807 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
2002 6.228 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
2003 6.783 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
Skipping to:
2006 8.506 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
2007 9.007 Trillion – Democrat congress – Bush
2008 10.024 Trillion – Democrat congress – Bush
2009 11.795 Trillion So far (09.10.2009) Democrat congress – Obama
So as you can see, even with the war, the Republicans spent around 3.2 Trillion during President Bush’s eight years in office.
Then Democrats get in after a long time out of power, but a Republican President to try and keep them in check, 1 trillion first year, and the last the Democrats would not sign, a full budget deal hoping a democrat would get elected so they could get more money for their pet projects, wait, “Impaler are you saying the Democrats didn’t send a full budget, just a stop gap bill during an economic crises hoping for a political win!” yes that is factually what happened.
Well you can read the Obama Number yourself; the Democrats in congress with the complicity of the President have now added an additional 1.771 Trillion to the debt this fiscal stub year.
So in two years in control of congress, the people who drafted, pork-up, and pass the budget have spent 2.7 trillion so far and the fiscal year is not over yet. Or to put this in percentages, The Democrats have spent 84 percent in two years of what the Republicans spent in the previous 6 years. Or to look at this another way, since the Democrats have had control of congress and the White House, Democrats have spent 55 percent more of what Republicans spent in the first 6 years of Bush.
Yep, then everyone wonders what the tea parties are about. Just to make this clear, Republicans and Independents either stayed home or voted Democrat thinking wow could they possible be worse with our money, Bam, tea party city man. No its not about race, its about being pissed about run away spending.
Jaim, I hope this covers it for you.
Riiiiight. The teabaggers are not at all motivated by racism in any form. They simply had had too much, and everything came to a head on January 20th of this year.
Like I said, not all teabaggers are bigots, just the ones who aren’t outrageous hypocrites.
Liberal, I have been trying to stop the race baiting the KKK is not was not ever an arm of the Republican Party. Here are some bits if knowledge you are in desperate need of:
In 1871, a Republican-led Congress passed the Ku Klux Act, authorizing President Ulysses Grant to use military force to suppress the terrorist group.
yep, those racist Republicans, he liberal of the 4700 people lynched in the USA, how many where Democrats, 0. all where Republican or trying to register as a Republican, of the 4700, 25 percent were white, trying to help Blacks to vote.
Can’t revise this history, just because Republicans won on “tough on crime” platforms, 1968 Nixon, 1980 Reagan, not to mention Racism waning as more Republicans won, in the south because of Nixon’s policy’s.
No the Democrats OWN racism. They where the party of intimidation, and violence, and legislation to get their way (card check) to eliminate a basic freedom, the secret ballot, if this passes then the Union, and ACORN thugs will know who you are, and where you live. But the NEW Democrat party doesn’t just use race any more to get votes and support, it uses class warfare, and blaming the “majority” (silent racism) to advance there goals.
Yea, I could never be a member of a group that lynched people, and continues the worst traditions that have germinated in this country, but I believe they have a name for it “The Chicago Way”.
So sayeth the Impaler
Why do you think non-whites overwhelmingly vote Democrat?
Or have you ever heard of Strom Thurmond?
‘Racism waned in the south because of Nixon’s policies.’
Further, ‘because the GOP was not racist over a century ago, they’re clearly not chock full of racists today, because political movements never shift in ideology.’
There is no facepalm epic enough to capture the sheer barking stupidity of those assertions.
The worst part is, he thinks he scored points rhetorically. It’s positively Goldbergian in it’s hypocritical, willful stupidity. I’d swear it was a joke if he didn’t take so much time to rebut everything, again and again and again.
Nothing you can say or do is ever going to sway such a deluded person, guys. I’d be genuinely amazed if this guy doesn’t eat paint chips.
Brilliant, Inhaler, brilliant impersonation of a braindead fuckwit!
If I thought for a minute you were serious I’d tell you that Dan Quayle called and he wants his stupid back.
“No the Democrats OWN racism”
Not since the 1960s. The Republicans of Lincoln’s time are the Democrats of today. Guess what Republicans were the party of big gov’t and social programs in Lincoln’s time while the Democrats were the party of limited gov’t, no social programs, and state’s rights and were the party who were buttbuddies of the religious reich.
See in the 1960s a freaky friday event happened in which the Republicans and Democrats switched sides with only a few Dixiecrats remaining.
You see racist Democrats got pardoned by the NAACP because they acknowledged they were racist and did things to make amends or the racist Democrats went over to the Republican party.
Sorry Nixon’s tough on crime act just drasticaly increased crime it didn’t decrease crime at all. Same with Reagan.
The KKK of today and other out and avowed racist groups overwhelemingly vote Republican in fact a Republican offical when the elections were underway went out in public in KKK garb and his affilation was made public. You then had the Republican offical who not only was invited by Neo-Nazis to a party to celebrate Hitler’s birthday but also went to it and praised Hitler. Funny how in both cases the GOP didn’t kick these guys out and apologize.
oh btw Obama’s stepgrandmother said she never met him till he was in his 20s when he first visited Kenya. The audiotape has the translator’s saying he was born in Hawaii in the US and that she was in Kenya at the time. So she yeah she was present in Kenya when he was born according to how the question was translated through three languages and two translators since the birthers couldn’t find one guy who spoke English and the language of Obama’s stepgrandmother instead they got a person who spoke English and Swaili then another translator who spoke Swaili and the correct language. Funny how birthers leave that part of the audiotape off were the two translators realize a miscommunication occured and were repeatdly correcting the minister responisble for a whole slew of lies about Obama.
Btw Obama never went to a Madrassa even Fox admitted the story was nonsense. It was a secular school that had Christians and many children of foriegners attending. Obama also attended a Catholic school there.
“As for “lily white”, I take that in the context not to be a refernce to the objectionable whiteness of an individual, but the disproportionate whiteness of the crowd’s composition.”
This would appear to be obvious and I even clarified earlier but the intellectual dishonesty of conservatives on this page knows no bounds. I almost used the exact same words but they won’t listen because it will get in the way of their bogus arguments.
Here’s another picture from the demonstration
I think all of us would be happy to carry that sign.
“Like I said, not all teabaggers are bigots, just the ones who aren’t outrageous hypocrites”
Another ignorant biased gem
Sorry Nixon’s tough on crime act just drasticaly increased crime it didn’t decrease crime at all. Same with Reagan.
Please, please, tell me you have some source for that assertion.
[...] these photos aren’t “representative” of what was actually going on… or so they [...]
So MobyDick,
So no problems describing say the Million Man March crowd as coal black? Or noting that an event had nary a white man there so it is suspect? Or describing a crowd as black, young, and lower class? Or my personal favorite, describing a protest about rampant runaway govt. spending and destruction of our healthcare system as “Some shots I took from the annual meeting of Fear Of A Black President”
That’s all cool, right?
The most disturbing thing about your photo essay is that the people whose signs you captured on film – OK, I’m showing my age; you captured them on disc – are allowed to own checking accounts, sign contracts, own passports and have children.
Wilbur, I’m hoping you’ll use my favorite view from the New York Times : Tougher law enforcement doesn’t stop crime; it just fills the prisons
Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
I know the guy with the “where my white privilege males at?” sign — he was a college leftist counter-protester who thought his sign would be over-the-top enough to be an obvious parody, but apparently these folks are beyond parody.
“Where were these morons when Bush squandered our money and thousands of our kids’ lives? Where were these imbeciles when the Bush administration made up laws and shredded the Constitution?
” Carlos
Where are you now? If it was wrong then for Bush to spend like crazy money we don’t have, why is it OK for Obama to spend even more money now that we don’t have? I understand people reaching a tipping point as the deficits go up and up and up – everyone’s tipping point is different. (My tipping point was the bailouts last Fall under Bush and the democratic congress) I don’t understand people who were against deficit spending under Bush being ok with it when the deficit spending under Obama is dwarfing anything Bush did. Obama’s policies are going to double the National Debt in only ten years to $20 Trillion!
So as you can see, even with the war, the Republicans spent around 3.2 Trillion during President Bush’s eight years in office.
Impy, if you’re a businessman, I hope you have a good accountant. Mr. Bush started with a debt of 5.6 trillion and ended with 10 trillion at October 2008. A couple of observations:
1) No matter what math you’re using, the difference between 5.6 trillion and 10 trillion is not 3.2 trillion.
2) The increase in the debt is not the amount the government spent under Mr. Bush’s leadership. It’s how much the government borrowed. The total amount spent over Mr. Bush’s 8 years in office would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $20 trillion.
Special bonus observation: All of the new debt added between October 2008 and October 2009 was added by Mr. Obama? Hahahahahahahahahahaha!
In 1871, a Republican-led Congress
And nothing has ever changed since.
Tush sayeth the Impy.
So as you can see, even with the war, the Republicans spent around 3.2 Trillion during President Bush’s eight years in office.
I call BS on the math..Seems closer to 4.4 trillion added to the deficit. Secondly, consider the fact that Bush kept some pretty expensive costs off the books (like Medicare-D, which Obama has decided to actually, you know, track.)
“Sorry Nixon’s tough on crime act just drasticaly increased crime it didn’t decrease crime at all. Same with Reagan.
Please, please, tell me you have some source for that assertion.
”
The war on drugs is a prime example. Much like prohibition it didn’t decrease crime at all. Illegal drug prices decreased drastically compared to what they were before Nixon. Lots of nonviolent people arrested and then rearrested then rearrested again. Putting them in jail didn’t decrease the amount of drug offenders.
Programs that actually work to curb drug offenses don’t treat the people as criminals nor have them have an arrest record. A lot of the people in our jails are in there for drug possession charges therby having violent criminals be paroled and police resources wasted on arresting drug buyers rather say finding rapists and murderers.
Oh btw next time a teabagger talks about the czars state that George Jr had 35 czars which is several more then Obama and that 46 people filled those 35 positions since a number of them only lasted a year before being replaced by Shrub. As well as that Hurricane Katrina recovery czarCzar is shorthand instead of saying for example Federal Coordinator of Hurricane Katrina Recovery Effort
Obama was President in October 2008? Wow, I could have sworn that we voted on Nov 4 to decide on who would be our next president, but who knew that Obama was president already by then no wonder he looked so confident when he won.
The “Where all my white, privileged makes at?!” was intended ironically. I know b/c it was one of the posters that my girlfriend and I made for the protest. We were trying to make fun of the crowd without it being completely obvious.
Fox News … You LIE!
No, CJ, When Sen Obama saw the Press he was getting, he knew he was gonna be elected President in November .
Tired, 1968 Nixon election platform, I agree with you as to the way that all administrations (state & federal) handle this issue, putting people in prison for this is a huge waste of money, I prefer treatment and counseling programs for first, or even second time offenders, and if they complete treatment it should be removed from their records. Republicans and Democrats should get together on this, to stop the election cycle rhetoric, where one party tries to out do the others as to tough on crime legislation. The whole time treating the symptoms with out dealing with the problem.
So Sayeth Bruce Henry’s ass.
Brian, It would seem from your response that you are one of the demonstrators or at least a sympathizer/ supporter of the 9-12 demonstrations. No one has to try and paint you or the assembled group as ‘haters/racists,’ the messages painted on your signs exposed that fact better than anyone could possibly have done. These clearly demonstrate the hate-filled, twisted logic,ignorance and allusion to violence as a solution behind your message.
http://www.slate.com/id/2228208/
How many of the protesters are avid listeners of Glenn Beck?
How many agree with his assessment of the President?
Tired, really freaky Friday, that is at least entertaining. no the Republicans haven’t changed I agree to a point that the Goldwater wing of the party, (lost to Nixon) tried to join with democrats in the south, (southern strategy) but this widely failed, and a Republican emerged that was not racist, and led this country into a new age.
The Democrat party position did change, and evolve after the passing of the 1964 Civil Rights act. Pres. Johnson believed that he would lose the South (pissed democrats) but would be able to make gains in other parts of the country, which has largely turned out to be true. My father is a Republican, and so was my grandfather, I can tell you our positions as a family haven’t changed much in three generations.
But I will add the Freaky Friday theory, next to the one on global warming.
- Impaler
Brian,
No need for trying. You ARE haters and racist.
[...] batshit crazy views. This is the United States of America and they are pretty much free to say whatever they want (short of actually threatening the President). I also think it’s wonderful they can protest [...]
Quaker, yea the numbers are tough because of the way the appropriations process works so you can’t blame the whole of 2009 year on Bush since Obama and congress has added more than 1.2 Trillion FY2009 in this cycle, so normally I would have just added Bush, but the 2010 budget has over another 1.5 Trillion in it, this should be concern to anyone worried about the effect on the dollar. This is what the Tea Party protests are about.
I understand the theory of Geithner and Obama, on the “temporary” devaluation of the dollar, home prices will increase and hopefully take the pressure off the Banks and the Mortgage Industry, my home value has shown the increase in this theory, imported products will increase over time, then as the theory goes, once the banking system is out of trouble, they can start to work on increasing the value of the dollar over the long term, if this doesn’t work, I fear a further collapse in the manufacturing sector, (my company) this will add to further job losses that will push our fragile economy over the cliff.
One this issue I truly Hope the President succeeds. For all of our sakes.
So hopeth the Impaler!
Unless of course you are dissenting Obama policy, then it goes instantly from patriotism to racism.
Not at all, it just goes from patriotism to HILARIOUS!
Where were you pathetic sheep when Bush was cutting taxes while spending hundreds of billions of dollars on an elective war and Medicare part D?
Your definition of freedom is skewed beyond recognition.
You wouldn’t want to live in a world without government. I promise you. Poor, nasty, brutish, and short…as the saying goes.
The economy is bad. We’re stretched too thin internationally. Sadly, the fact is that since Nixon, the GOP has deficit spent more than the Democrats. And most of it went directly into the pockets of the wealthy. George Bush handed your tax dollars to billionaires. Bill Clinton’s administration had budget surpluses for years. We were on track to begin paying down our debt until Bush. Now we’re in a situation where, as proven historically, the government has no choice but to spend too much to boost the economy again. I’m angry, too. But believe me, your solution and rescue is NOT in the hands of Glenn Beck. The guy is an entertainer. A movie star by a different name.
Instead of ripping into big government (made bigger more by the GOP than the Dems in the past 2 decades,) you should be ripping into the corporate conglomerates that control EVERYTHING. They got us into this financial mess along with the neo-cons and if not held accountable, would gladly take the american people for every dime we have.
Hate the government? Opt out of its military protection, fire and crime protection, health and safety standards, Medicare, Social Security, public water facilities, and environmental protections and we’ll see how far you get.
I think that lady has the right idea. I’m praying for the rapture myself. Then all these fuckwits will truly “Go Galt” and we’ll be free of them.
Obama and congress has added more than 1.2 Trillion FY2009 in this cycle
Really? Let’s see the details.
I’m praying for the rapture myself. Then all these fuckwits will truly “Go Galt” and we’ll be free of them.
And we can take their stuff.
You need some help finding that $1.5 trillion, Impy?
Here ya go.
NYtimes a reputable source would be good. Besides I just bought a treasure map off of ebay.
NY Times beats no source at all, Impy.
Where’d you get your $1.5 trillion?
Mr. Bush’s proposed budget for FY2009 was $3.1 trillion. That didn’t include supporting troops in Iraq or Afghanistand and it didn’t include an AMT patch.
The latest CBO estimate is that we’ll spend about $3.6 to $3.7 trillion for FY2009. There are a couple of things you can definitely charge to Mr. Obama: the continuation of Bush’s tax cuts and this year’s portion of the stimulus bill. Even giving you the benefit of the doubt, you’re still missing more than $1 trillion that Mr. Obama and Congress supposedly added to the Bush budget.
Chop, chop, Impy.
Sorry, sb “Where’d you get your $1.2 trillion?”
yea, sorry, I am using the debt number not incuding the revenue offset, that would be waaay to time consuming for a simple point.
yea, sorry, I am using the debt number not incuding the revenue offset, that would be waaay to time consuming for a simple point.
Too time consuming? How’s this?
The Bush budget missed revenue projection by $600 billion. There’s half of your $1.2 trillion right there.
Peedro, is that you again?
Quaker, the 1.2 Trillion is my number, off the top of my head, it would be stimulus, plus contingent liabilities with it. plus other smaller approved appropriations, didn’t check the number but I am sure its close.
Perhaps we could agree to an audit of our government? I am pretty conservative on my forecasting (guessing).
So guesses the Impaler!
ok, here is the debt number from 21Jan2009 to 10Sep2009 last day available 1,169,992,436,126.21 increase in the debt over the dates listed above.
No that number is to the penny, well dollar any how.
Quaker, the 1.2 Trillion is my number, off the top of my head, it would be stimulus, plus contingent liabilities with it. plus other smaller approved appropriations, didn’t check the number but I am sure its close.
You’re “sure” but you have nothing but the top of your head to back you up?
Here, I’ll tell you where you get your $1.2 trillion number.
The Bush budget for FY2009 projected a deficit of (roughly) $400 billion. (Don’t believe me? Google it!) The components of the deficit were $2.7 trillion in revenues and $3.1 trillion in outlays.
The latest estimate from the CBO for FY2009 is a deficit in the neighborhood of $1.6 to $1.7 trillion, or rougly $1.2 trillion more than the proposed Bush budget.
So did Obama and Congress spend an extra $1.2 trillion? Not by a long shot. We’re not getting $2.7 trillion in revenue. The latest CBO projection puts it at $2.1 trillion. Effect: +$600 billion to the deficit.
We’re also spending money for Iraq and Afghanistan–about $140 billion. That wasn’t included in Mr. Bush’s $3.1 trillion.
Congress is fixing the Alternative Minimum Tax. That’s about $100 billion according to these people. Mr. Bush would have done this, and Mr. McCain promised to do the same during his campaign.
So there’s about $840 billion of your $1.2 trillion. I’ll venture that my sources are far more reliable than the top of your head.
Quaker, “The Bush budget missed revenue projection by $600 billion. There’s half of your $1.2 trillion right there.” that why I don’t use projections from politicians, if I wan’t fiction I go to Barnes & Noble.
here is the debt number
That’s the deficit, Impy. Not the debt. They’re not the same thing. Please refer to the post above to understand why the delta is not spending that (as you asserted) Obama and Congress added to the Bush budget.
Oh, I see what you’re doing. You’re using the delta in outstanding debt. My apologies.
Fine. The delta is still not attributable to spending added to the Bush budget. Analysis above still holds.
Quaker, “FY2009 projected a deficit of (roughly) $400 billion.” I have never mentioned the Deficit, All I have said, is about spending and debt, which is accurate. That Obama has spent more in FY2009 which we are still in, so the number is believe I said get “skewed” the point is people want to blame Bush, it’s a mantra here, I am just pointing out that for FY2009 the Democrat controlled congress leashed Bush, once victory was probable. Bush would not let Pelosi spend more so the said fine we will do a supplemental and what for Clinton or Obama to spend money, My point is unlike FY2001 this was not a clean transition, because the new President new he would have spending authority early on.
People questioned why I added Obama’s name to the list, I am not complaining about the situation. Just saying what happened.
Quaker, “Congress is fixing the Alternative Minimum Tax.” you mean another yearly stop gap, not fix.
you mean another yearly stop gap
Indeed I do.
the point is people want to blame Bush
No. Not people, a person (specifically, you) want to blame Obama for the FY2009 deficit. You’re full of old shoes.
you can’t blame the whole of 2009 year on Bush since Obama and congress has added more than 1.2 Trillion FY2009 in this cycle
The FY2009 portion of the stimulus is about $50 billion. Where’s the other $1.15 trillion, Impy?
2001 5.807 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
That’s the end of Mr. Clinton’t management. $5.8 trillion is the debt Mr. Bush started with:
2002 6.228 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
2003 6.783 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
Skipping to:
2006 8.506 Trillion – Republican congress – Bush
2007 9.007 Trillion – Democrat congress – Bush
2008 10.024 Trillion – Democrat congress – Bush
2009 11.795 Trillion So far (09.10.2009) Democrat congress – Obama
No, you don’t get to give 2009 to Mr. Obama. That’s Mr. Bush’s budget. If you want to knock off $50 billion for stimulus money spent in 2009, fine. Mr. Bush ends with a debt of $11.7 trillion.
$11.7 – $5.8 = $5.9 trillion in debt added during the Bush administration.
Ok, Quaker I use the actual debt number as they happen not projections not estimates and it takes time for the CBO to get adjusted number to the market that are closer to accurate. These we do not have yet, but the Debt number the amount borrowed to pay the bills is an easier number, why, because its real, the number won’t move its currency and debt instruments issued.
The Deficit is the amount of difference between income and spending. I couldn’t tell you what the Deficit is today, but I do BTW take you at face value, you don’t have to say trust me.
So are you saying Obama hasn’t spent money or are we arguing over the amount? But if I said that since Obama was sworn in the national debt has increased by 1.2 trillion it would be factually accurate, or will be by the end of the month.
But this is again one of the reasons I support the tea party movement, the US is on an unsustainable course at some point we are going to fail the acid test more than we are today.
But if I said that since Obama was sworn in the national debt has increased by 1.2 trillion it would be factually accurate, or will be by the end of the month.
You would be factually accurate. However, you would be wrong to suggest (as you did) that Obama and Congress have added $1.2 trillion in FY2009. Why? Because our government doensn’t budget spending on a make-it-up-as-you-go basis. The 2009 budget was written by Mr. Obama’s predecessor.
The $1.2 trillion added to the national debt in FY2009 is Mr. Bush’s legacy.
5,728,195,796,181.57 Bush takes office in January 2001
10,626,877,048,913.08 Bush leaves office in January 2009
Delta 4,898,681,252,731.51 Total Term in office Bush
This would be way of looking at it, And also factual. Bush did not sign the supplementals Obamba did, during FY2009 this was the point I was making, Bush for instance did not sign the Porkulus bill, Obama did, as one example.
Bush did not sign the supplementals Obamba did, during FY2009 this was the point I was making,
Had 2008 not been an election year, Mr. Bush would have certainly signed the supplementals for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. This is not spending that Mr. Obama added to the debt.
The portion of the stimulus bill that one could reasonably include in the current debt figure is ab out $50 billion. Crediting Mr. Bush for the actions of his predecessor and excusing him for the impact of his policies after his departure both misstate his spending record.
Quaker, You cannot go off of a Presidents proposal, there are over 12 parts to the appropriations process, and it can coninue to change all year, especially this year, no blame at the executive level, just the way the house handles money. Hell do you remember when Clinton raised taxes and the house and senate made those changes retro active, they my have done the same thing on the tax cuts under bush, (not sure), but it plays havoc with private industry not to mention the CBO.
If you took over my position as CEO for my company, and i was removed as a signer on January 20th for you to take over, and you bounced a check for 1 trillion dollars, you would still blame me by saying, “hey impaler was CEO during FY2009″, so he is responsible, well you would be laughed out of court.
See my point?
If you want to use your method accurately, the debt clock starts for Mr. Bush on September 30, 2001 and ends September 30, 2009.
On that basis, he doubled the national debt.
and you bounced a check for 1 trillion dollars, you would still blame me by saying, “hey impaler was CEO during FY2009″
If you negotiated and signed the contracts and committed for the goods and services, you bet I’d blame you. And the apt comparison wouldn’t be “bounced a check,” it would be “borrowed the money to cover your spending.” As your successor, I don’t get to tell suppliers, “Sorry, we’re not paying.”
And though I might be laughed out of court, I would be telling the board of directors the truth.
Well, I think we are on the same page, just going over semantics, a supplemental is such a contract, not a check, but that works for me.
Been entertaining Quaker, thanks. We will see where the budget goes from here and see the adjusted number for the truth in the budget, I don’t know probably around April of next year would be my guess for FY2009.
So…Impaler
Jay: Hmm. Fair enough.
OK, if Jay is going to admit he was unclear, especially after we took him a bit to task for it, I’m going to have to recognize that he did that.
It’s playing havoc with my sense of the way things are in the Universe, but sometimes that happens. Tip o the hat to Jay.
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” Bush for instance did not sign the Porkulus bill, Obama did, as one example”
So the largest amount of tax cuts for the middle class in history is pork to you conservatives?
Funding for volcano and other disaster monitoring that has been demanded for over a decade by numerous agencies both private and public is pork?
Money spent on roads to repair or improve them is pork? Notice the amount needed to actually repair the US road system is basically a trillion dollars and wouldn’t cost that much if Republicans hadn’t blocked money to repair them instead of just trying to put rubberbands on it.
I could go on and on about how none of this is pork.
Tired I bet you could, but I could do the same, and wait the “largest tax cut for the middle class in history” ok you got me forget everything else, How on G_D’s green earth did you come to that conclusion.
” How on G_D’s green earth did you come to that conclusion.”
Because 40% of the stimulus was tax cuts and people who keep track of stuff like that you know economists, journalists stated that it was the largest tax cut in history with the majority of the cuts in it affecting the middle class in a positive light since a number of them were credits instead of rebates.
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