Win.
(click to enlarge)
IF YOU ARE AGAINST UNIVERSAL CARE YOU ARE AGAINST SUPERMAN, AND IF YOU STAND AGAINST SUPERMAN, YOU STAND AGAINST TRUTH, JUSTICE AND THE AMERICAN WAY AND WITH HITLER AND LEX LUTHOR.
Via, and sent to me by Pete, who so gets me.
Wow, O-Dub, you called in some pretty big chits.
You and the EssMan are buds like him and that Olsen kid?
Looks to me like the hospital is seeking voluntary donations.
I don’t see anyone there demanding higher property taxes or a special assessment from the community to support the hospital.
Supes is calling for people to give generously out of their own pockets, not to authorize the government to take everyone’s money for the cause.
The big guy’s not endorsing ObamaCare here. In fact, he’d be appalled at Obama’s earlier trial balloon about capping the tax deductions for charitale giving.
This one’s a big fail for you, Oliver.
J.
Missed the third panel, JayTea?
Read the third panel for the first time then, jerk.
You and the EssMan are buds like him and that Olsen kid?
Well, I don’t like to brag but I have seen the big key at the fortress.
Jaytea:
As everyone else said: third panel.
Supes is calling for people to give generously out of their own pockets, not to authorize the government to take everyone’s money for the cause.
“…today we help, through taxes and contributions, to support health and welfare services in our communities, so that anyone, rich or poor, can have them available at any time.”
Emphasis supplied for those who are incapable of understanding graphic literature written for a sixth grade reading level.
I knew Jay was illiterate when it came to books, but the dude can’t even read a comic book. Sad.
Adult illiteracy is no laughing matter. Unless it’s Jay, in which case it’s freaking hilarious as always.
Cons always try to see the Thatcherite light at the end of the tunnel
Well, I don’t like to brag but I have seen the big key at the fortress.
Not so sure I would have admitted to that. OT as hell, but Freud could have written his PhD thesis on that panel.
Now back to our regularly scheduled troll bashing…
I saw the third panel. Did anyone else see the first panel?
“HOSPITAL FUND DRIVE”
Supes cited taxes, but that wasn’t the case here. This was a community fund drive, seeking voluntary contributions.
Unlike Obama, I got no problem with voluntary contributions. I’m a seven-gallon Red Cross donor, and I’ll be continuing on towards my 8th in a couple of weeks (gotta wait 8 weeks from the last donation, and that was July 11th — note to self: week from next Saturday I’m eligible again).
According to that Obama trial balloon, he’d tell people that their contributions to the hospital wouldn’t be tax deductible, so they might as well scrap the voluntary part and just pass a tax increase so EVERYONE gets to help out the hospital.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/25/AR2009032503103.html
Toss that in with “Cash for Clunkers,” which took a whole bunch of cheap cars off the market, depriving poor people of potential transportation (the last car I bought, I paid less than $4500 for, and it would have been a great candidate for C4C) and charities that take donations of old cars, and it’s clear that Obama does’t care much for private charity.
Considering that study that shows that Republicans give a LOT more to charity than Democrats, and it’s not surprising.
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1
And Obama’s charitable contributions? Pretty damned weak, until he started seriously running for president.
No wonder he doesn’t trust the American people to do the right thing on their own. He surrounds himself with people who, quite simply, don’t do that.
J.
Why do the opinions of an obvious illegal immigrant weigh so heavily in this debate?
Is there anyone here who received health care services in 1952?
Lemme guess – nope .
There was something called an Accident Room , and an Emergency Room.
Otherwise, you went to your Doctor – who came to your house, if he thought the patient shouldn’t come out. Your Dad paid for it. (Then once a year, he sat down with all the bills he had paid, and filed a claim with Blue Cross / Blue Shield)
There were some people poorer than us , I guess, but not too many, so maybe they saw more charitable doctors.
And Doctors did “pro bono” work. Dentists took care of children’s cavities for free, during the school day . A weird insurance that paid you absurd amounts of money if you lost an eye and a leg, or two eyes and an arm, paid for any accidents you had at school.
Think you can do that now?
Oliver, you are trying too hard to sell this lemon.
Mr. Willis you are awesome
Frank, what you’re describing (patient pays doctor directly) is called “Single Payer.” It’s the system America should have.
What’s funny is your too much of a dumbfuck to recognize it.
Jaim, YOU’RE the “dumbfuck” here.
“Single payer” means “the government is the single payer for everyone.”
What you laughingly call “single payer” is actually “hundreds of millions of payers.”
Oh, and Mr. English Teacher? It’s “you’re” in that context. “You’re” being a contraction of “you are.”
You’re welcome.
J.
“What you are describing here” = “What you’re describing here”
Jay fail English? That’s unpossible!
“Single payer” means “the government is the single payer for everyone.”
Wrong. What it means is a system like England or Korea’s where everyone pays into the system via taxes, and when people need medical help they have to pay a (reasonable) bill out of pocket, with no Big Insurance middle man gouging people along the way.
For God’s sake man, how do you manage to make it out of the house every morning? Or do you even try?
Your stupid burns like napalm.
Your stupid burns like
napalm.Chernobyl.Fixed.
Jay Tea. Just admit you’re wrong wrong wrong on this. You’ve become hysterical. As noted in the comic, the system works via a combination of private and public funding. This libertarian wet dream of charity picking up the gaps does not work.
Frank. Our system of government was devised in the late 1770s, based on the absurd logic you’re trying to push here, there’s no way we could still use a similar system because it was so long ago.
Why is it you cons can’t hold an honest debate on anything? If the topic was the moon you’d be arguing about the rings on Saturn.
“Five Myths About Health Care in the Rest of the World”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/21/AR2009082101778.html
“In some ways, health care is less “socialized” overseas than in the United States. Almost all Americans sign up for government insurance (Medicare) at age 65. In Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands, seniors stick with private insurance plans for life. Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs is one of the planet’s purest examples of government-run health care.”
Jay’s head asplodes yet again.
Oliver: I was born in 1946. Was that “so long ago”?
Why is it you cons can’t hold an honest debate on anything?
You want an honest debate? Fine, then don’t drag 1952’s Man of Steel into it. He was merely recommending that people should be willing – in whatever way – to contribute to public health. He was not suggesting socialized medicine.
When it comes to 1950′ DC , I was buying them off the shelf , for a dime, not paying $20 a copy for mint copies at comic cons.
And , Jaim. if you think a single person paying a single doctor is a “single payer system” , you are the dumb fuck to end all dumb fucks.
I feel sorry for the Koreans under your tutelage (and I use the term incredibly loosely), as their English will undoubtedly embarrass them greatly, thanks to you.
Thank God you are not teaching American students – American illiteracy is already a crying shame.
I apologize, Jaim. I underestimated how stupid you are.
My correction was for this statement of yours:
What’s funny is your too much of a dumbfuck to recognize it.
I so rarely engage in spelling/grammar flames, but for an alleged English teacher to make such an egregious blunder while criticizing someone else for being a “dumbfuck” begs to be called out.
As for “burning stupidity,” here are a few definitions of “single payer” for your enlightenment:
Single-payer health care operates by arranging the payment of services to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers from a single source established and managed by government. — Wikipedia
A system of health care characterized by universal and comprehensive coverage. Single-payer health care is similar to the health services provided by Medicare in the US. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage their medical practices or hospitals. — Medicine.net
of, relating to, or being a system in which health-care providers are paid for their services by the government rather than by private insurers. — Merriam-Webster
Turn in your teacher credentials, Jaim. It’s obvious that you are simply too stupid to be speaking English, let alone entrusted with teaching others what the words mean.
Why don’t you come back to the US and be a “community organizer?” The requirements are virtually nonexistent, just a certain blind, unreasoning devotion to a specific ideology — and your credentials there are solid.
And then you can enjoy the dubious benefits of the policies you so fiercely endorse from afar.
J.
“I feel sorry for the Koreans under your tutelage (and I use the term incredibly loosely), as their English will undoubtedly embarrass them greatly, thanks to you.”
Funny. I’m teaching six year-olds who have a stronger grasp of English than you do, and it’s their second language.
Take your government provided meds and take a nap, Frank.
“My correction was for this statement of yours”
Wow. You get, like, three zillion internet points for that catch Sherlock.
“Why don’t you come back to the US and be a “community organizer?”
Nah, having too much fun here. And if I happen to get sick, I have access to top-quality health-care that won’t bankrupt me. And frankly, there’s nothing American about suffering through the latter end of the GOP/Bush Recession.
“Why don’t you come back to the US and be a ‘community organizer?’”
Why don’t you find an internet publication that won’t fire your sorry ass?
Jaim, go find one of those six-year-olds and have them explain “single payer” to you. You obviously need it.
And what’s Korean for “dumbfuck?”
If they lack that precise term, might I suggest “Jaim?”
J.
A guy incapable of parsing a page from a superhero comic probably shouldn’t talk.
Oh, dear, I’m being “schooled” by an English teacher who can’t distinguish “your” from “you’re” and has his own custom definition of “single-payer” that is 180 degrees from that used by the rest of the world. Oh, the shame of it all…
J.
You know, it’s not just “liberal” that the conservatives have turned into a bad word. Check out the way in which the word “welfare”, which means people faring well; happiness and well-being, has now been turned into an epithet hurled at people, rather than a wish for one’s fellow man.
Buffalopundit, LBJ was a conservative?!?
Oh, so Oliver just wants to hand over all our important American policies to foreign born extraterrestrial magic men. Pffft. No wonder he backs Barack Obama.
Jesus, I like how y’all think this is O’s most seriousest argument about healthcare, his QED. Bunch of humorless twits.
…provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty…
It’s not the people, it’s the indidious nature of the program that encourages generations of dependency and fosters a sense of entitlement, Buffalo.
LBJ did incredible evil to this nation. And worse, he did it while proclaiming it for the highest of purposes.
J.
And what will happen to our national health care system when Republicans find kryptonite, huh?
Actually, LBJ only had to work on welfare type programs since Republicans and Southern segregationist Democrats had opposed the continuation of New Deal era public works jobs.
Had we been able to continue public employment jobs as a way of assisting the struggling instead of, as conservatives knowingly preferred, starting such an easily hated welfare program, then we would have spent far less money, had trillions invested in the public infrastructure of the U.S., and left public assistance a respected program instead of Reagan welfare cadillac bait.
Jay Tea, if we get you to say YOUR name backwards, will you go back to YOUR own dimension?
Sadly, he’s not comic book illiterate, since he bugs Peter David all the time too.
“LBJ did incredible evil to this nation. And worse, he did it while proclaiming it for the highest of purposes.”
Sure, it was him escalated the American presence in Vietnam into a full-scale war, despite the fact that he knew better than that, and proclaimed it as necessary for the survival of freedom against the isidousness of communism (existing in a foreign country thousands of miles away that had nothing to do with America). That’s what you were talking about, right?
Jaim, there’s an old saying: When you’re standing in a hole, stop digging.
Here’s a 2009 update: I can dig that you like being an a**hole.
Oliver: I was born in 1946. Was that “so long ago”?
Yes. It doesn’t preclude you from commenting on issues, but your thoughts are still stuck in ‘46.
Fine, then don’t drag 1952’s Man of Steel into it. He was merely recommending that people should be willing – in whatever way – to contribute to public health. He was not suggesting socialized medicine.
A. I will always drag Superman into it.
B. Superman is clearly advocating here a system where the public and private contribute to health care and the general welfare. It’s as plain as day. But you cons insist on seeing something else, simply incapable of basic honesty.
Oh, so Oliver just wants to hand over all our important American policies to foreign born extraterrestrial magic men.
There is one version of Superman’s origin in which the birthing matrix he’s shipped to earth on doesn’t open until it lands in Kansas, this was decided (in an imaginary story) to be valid in determining that Superman was a natural born US Citizen and eligible to run for president (which he did and then won). Also, not magic. Superman is vulnerable to magic.
Throw in Lana and Lois in nurse’s uniforms, and I’m there.
So where does Hitler come into this conversation? Did he rise from the dead in 1952 to oppose Superman’s views on health care?
And what about Luthor? Dude was opposed to people fawning over the space-ubermensch, but did he make any serious commentary about the welfare system?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Twenty-five years ago, I could go to the Astodome and park on-site for $3, get a mezzanine level ticket for $7.50, and a hot dog and a soda for $5. Those days are gone. My solution is simple. I don’t go to any more Astros games. I remember when I could get a movie ticket for $1.25. Those days are gone, too. But I have the same solution. I don’t go to movies anymore. Health care costs have gone up, but I don’t have the same solution. Even with a hospital plan that covers 90% of costs, that remaining 10% can be a ballbuster.
Well, in comic book world Superman isn’t magic, but gaining an array of super-powers because our Sun outputs a bit more yellow sure as hell ain’t “science”, so you’ll forgive the loose application of the word “magic”.
Plus, even if you could buy a Astrodome ticket for $7,50, it wouldn’t be very exciting, what with Enron Field and all.
Your analogy is instructive though. Obama claims that his plan will “bend the cost curve downward”. But as your argument shows, that is nothing but nonsense on stilts. EVERYTHING gets more expensive as you get older: it’s a fact of life. And if Obama would quit spreading “myths” about the health care plan, maybe we can finally have an honest debate.
“LBJ did incredible evil to this nation.”
Staggering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964
But it’s nice to know where Jay stands on the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
Evil? Really? He actually escalated in Viet Nam, which a chicken-hawk coward like yourself usually appreciates.
You’re so far down the rabbit-hole of your bigotry and hate that it’s kind of funny, Jay. Have fun at the next Klan Rally!
Yeah, Obama’s the one spreading myths about healthcare. *chadeathpanelsough*
Nobody messes with superman, apart from those bad lads in that bit of glass
Oliver, I would gladly turn over our nation’s healthcare to Superman. In lieu of that option, I would fall back on my previous suggestion, which is to continuously expand coverage under Medicare and Medicaid – reducing co-pays, increasing income eligibility requirements, etc; until, just about everybody is covered. It would be far less disruptive and controversial.
I don’t know about other conservatives, but I am not anti – change, nor do I fear it. But “less disruptive and controversial” – me likee.
I would fall back on my previous suggestion, which is to continuously expand coverage under Medicare and Medicaid – reducing co-pays, increasing income eligibility requirements, etc; until, just about everybody is covered.
Frank, that actually sounds pretty good. It also sounds fairly similar to what the Obama administration is proposing.
What you laughingly call “single payer” is actually “hundreds of millions of payers.”
Kind of like “Since the days of the first settlers, Americans have helped each other out when sickness and trouble came.”?
Frank, that actually sounds pretty good. It also sounds fairly similar to what the Obama administration is proposing.
Oh.
Well.
Fuck that, then.
LBJ did incredible evil to this nation. And worse, he did it while proclaiming it for the highest of purposes.
Wow. That’s some industrial bitterness and rage, right there.
I like Frank’s approach. It’s similar to mine, and I’ve heard others suggest it. If it is Obama’s approach, I’d like to hear it framed as such more.
It is NOT Obama’s approach. It is a Progressive approach (one of several) however…single-payer advocates have long been saying that we should just extend Medicare to everyone.
Delete the words “just about,” however. Covering “just about everyone” isn’t enough. Cover everyone. We can afford it.
It is NOT Obama’s approach
No?
Public option. Medicare.
Compare and contrast.
OK, if Pres Obama’s approach is an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid, then why is there a 1,000 page Omnibus bill to create it?
Why is there evidence all over the landscape that many of its supporters see it as the gateway to a “single payer” plan?
Finally, why can’t politicians speak English, and say this health plan will cover more elderly on Medicare , more children on Medicaid, and ease up on the documentation and office visits required for certification and recertification?
Because it is NOT an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid – it is a Trojan horse for socialized medicine. Period.
“why is there a 1,000 page Omnibus bill to create it”
WORDS R HARD
You couldn’t offer a bill called “America Fucking Rules Day” without a 1,000 page omnibus.
Saying a bill is “too long” is dumb, even for you Frankie.
“Because it is NOT an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid – it is a Trojan horse for socialized medicine. Period.”
Medicare and Medicaid are, by definition, socialized medicine, as is the VA system. Not sure what you’re complaining about, but as I’ve suggested you are welcome to rip up the monthly checks you get from the Fed for these things.
LBJ did incredible evil to this nation. And worse, he did it while proclaiming it for the highest of purposes.
Vietnam?
Plus, even if you could buy a Astrodome ticket for $7,50, it wouldn’t be very exciting, what with Enron Field and all.
It’s Minute Maid Park now.
Why can’t we just name stadiums after people like we used to?
Because it is NOT an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid – it is a Trojan horse for socialized medicine. Period.
How the hell are Medicare Medicaid NOT “socialized medicine” already? Is it because YOU benefit from it?
How long was the Medicare Part D law?
O NOEZ!! Teh Medicare Part D was over 400 pages!!
How could a bill reforming all of U.S. health care / insurance be bigger! UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
Jaim , your climb to new levels of a**holedom never ceases to amaze me.
Try this (Did you really go to college?:
If the Medicaid laws, rules and regulations are already in existence, why should it take 500 additional pages to “revise” them ( assuming each program gets half each); if the Medicare program already exists, why would would it take 500 pages to “revise” it ?
Do you realize how ignorant and narrow minded you lefties look when you can’t even suggest a nearly serious answer to an honest question?
Of course not. Once you have parroted the Obermann / Maddow line, you’re played. You have no thoughts or ideas on the subject, beyond what you have been spoon fed by MSNBC.
Answer this one : Why is there evidence all over the landscape that many of its supporters see it as the gateway to a “single payer” plan?
Or this one : Why can’t politicians speak English, and say this health plan will cover more elderly on Medicare , more children on Medicaid, and ease up on the documentation and office visits required for certification and recertification?
Zython: Please stop making a fool of yourself
Is it because YOU benefit from it?
No ,you dick, it’s because I can pay for my doctor, medicine, or health care anytime I want. In a “one-payer” system, there is — wait for it — only ONE PAYER!
The much touted “private option” will disappear as quickly as the promise that the Civil Rights Act will never bring about “reverse discrimination”, aka “affirmative action.”
The reason no “serious” answer is being given to the idiot, plaintive cry that a bill is too long is that there is simply no substance to the question. It is without weight, without value — and anyone actually seeking an answer would look at various bills to see what they contained and answer the questions in such a manner.
But if this is what you want to hang your hat on, go forth.
If you want to take on some particular revising of this or that law or amendment, and dispute the aim or the wording, do so. But simply repeating over and over BUH HA THE BILL IZ TOO LONG is in no way an argument about anything.
You know what the problem with the Constitution is?
tl; dr
You’d of made a shitty Founding Father, Frankie.
The much touted “private option” will disappear as quickly as the promise that the Civil Rights Act will never bring about “reverse discrimination”, aka “affirmative action.”
…Wow…You’re really churning out the crazy lately, huh, Frank?
But really, go ahead and keep saying that the Civil Rights Act was a bad thing, or that the U.S. health care system should remain worse than Costa Rica’s. Be my guest.
Frank’s right about one thing. The public option in the current versions of the bill is similar in concept to medicare and medicaid, but that is only part of the bill. The rest is a hodgepodge designed to keep private health insurers from being driven totally out of the business of profiting off illness. Since the legislature is composed of 40% republicans and 11% democrats with their hands deep in the healthcare lobby’s cookie jar, that’s the only legislation with a public element that has any chance of passing.
Seems to me, though, that the current legislation would be much less disruptive than what you propose Frank: either private insurers will adapt and prosper or they will succumb and the public option will become a universal public system, but in either case the change would be gradual; whereas any significant expansion of medicare and medicaid would put private insurers in an immediate pickle of mammoth proportions.
whereas any significant expansion of medicare and medicaid would put private insurers in an immediate pickle of mammoth proportions.
I suggested a gradual expansion: I have done this before, it is tedious to repeat, but I will do it again.
First, make it easier for the chronically ill people to certify and recertify — go to their homes, if necessary. It would be relatively simple for Social Services and hospital Social Workers to identify those people. If you know that a person has a chronic illness, why are they schlepping documents to the office each year? Is my asthma going to be cured? Will epileptics stop having seizures?
Second, identify “caretaker” families (where there is a sick person in the family at home), and let them be on Medicaid or Medicare, to ease their financial burden – after all, they are keeping this person out of the hospital.
Third, require complete physical examination for every 10 year old child, with a complete check for immunizations, and a dental check for each one. This way, any need for medical care can be detected early. Also, have the same examination when a student graduates from high school, including STD’s. Children in need of Medicaid and Medicare can be certified then. If their families provide Home Care, their families can be certified, too, as above.
Fourth, give all single pregnant women the opportunity to secure Food Stamps and WIC, whether or not they are now eligible. They can pick them up after they attend pre-natal classes. [The Department of Education can set aside funds to facilitate their staying in school, if they have not graduated high school, or if they are in college, so they can complete it]
There is more, but I am tired
Zython, stop, please stop, being a horse’s ass. As usual, you have me saying something I didn’t say.
Secondly, if you are unsatisfied with American health care, please , by all means, go to Costa Rica. I understand it is a beautiful country, cheaper living, and you can play W o W to your heart’s content.
Just leave me alone!
All good ideas, Frank, but they do little to address the two biggest problems of the current system: exploding costs and lack of universal coverage. My shorthand reference to “significant” change was shorthand for that: things that will have a near-term impact in those two areas. While we’re waiting for your small steps to take hold before we take the next round of small steps, the healthcare behemoth is swallowing up more and more of our gdp and getting harder and harder for us to change.
Hey, I have all sorts of policies and fantasies of how I’d like this country to be, but I don’t give a shit about Frank’s silly dreams and nobody does about mine either.
El Cid – That would make us even , except I have ideas, and I can type. You seem to capable of neither.
Wilbur , please tell me how spending a trillion dollars in ten years will “address the two biggest problems of the current system: exploding costs and lack of universal coverage.”
Jaim, there was , and is , only one problem with the constitution: Shitheads like you think that everytime you read a new New York Times editorial, it’s time to amend the Constitution, or worse, work around it.
A shitty Founding Father? I would have prided myself in being a shitty Founding Father, as opposed to being an ass kissing Loyalist like you, 망할놈/년 .
Frank, first of all the trillion dollars is for _providing_ universal coverage. So that’s one half of the issue right there. The bargaining power of a public option plan would go a long way to controlling costs. There are other things that would work in that direction too that, I’m sorry to say, don’t seem likely to make it out of the current legislature because too many people have golden calves that stand to be gored.
People scream about that 1 trillion dollars but they never think to compare that to the additional amount we’ll be paying in future years if health care costs are not brought under control.
Frank, it’s obvious you want socialized medicine. Welcome to the 21st century.
I mean that in a good way. And I’m glad you seem to be for Obama’s plan, as far as I can tell.
I once read somewhere that in India, occasionally people just drop dead in the streets, and people just step over them, and continue on.
That idea was so horrifying, that I thought, “The least we can do is see to it that people can receive medical care, until they can go home.”
There is no way the Obama plan resembles the changes I envision. Knowing as I do the way government rules and regulations work, there are even more dangerous provisions in there than “death panels”. (Which you continue to insist do not exist, because they are “end-of-life advisory groups”, and that’s waaaaaaay different.)
Which you continue to insist do not exist, because they are “end-of-life advisory groups”
Not in the bill, Frank. Not now, not ever.
I once read somewhere that in India, occasionally people just drop dead in the streets, and people just step over them, and continue on.
And of course there’s no reason to question this.
“death panels”. (Which you continue to insist do not exist, because they are “end-of-life advisory groups”, and that’s waaaaaaay different.)
We insist they don’t exist because they don’t exist.
Bullshit. You come to a god-damned liberal blog which isn’t some policy wonk forum but one in which the host posts various quips & comments mainly about right wing lunacy.
I have blogs and fora to go to in which to write about what I would prefer.
Instead, you losers come here, hoping to bore liberals and lefties to death with your bullshit about what you demand, otherwise you’ll poop your diapers.
Why would I? Why on Urf would I come to Oliver Willis’ blog to write impassioned screeds about my left wing vision of the world for a bunch of weirdo trolls? Why?
First Panel: Hospital Fund Drive
Conservative response: “I’m not giving a red cent”
Actually, so-called “death panels” were and maybe still are being discussed in government, insofar as money for hospice services are concerned. There is nothing innately wrong with ceasing treatment and doping a patient to oblivion while they die, as Hospice basically does, I guess, but to say that these things aren’t discussed is ignorant or disingenuous.
The people who decide that it is time for Hospice-like procedure to step in are equatable to a death panel. The rub is that this goes on in private practise all the time, with no input from bureaucrats, but rather on direction and advice of the patient, the doctor and the family.
I think on this death panel “issue” that both sides are pretty well muddying the waters when they aren’t outright lying.
Something else: If you have health insurance, then you are a part of socialised medicine. In order not to partake in socialism, you must pay out of pocket. Crying socialism is the single most inane thing I hear from people; they have no clue what they are talking about.
Health insurance works as follows: You pay into a great big pool of money made up from people from all over the country. This great big pool of money, only a teeny tiny percentage of which came from you, is invested by the insurance company in various ways, with a portion set aside for the proverbial rainy day and another portion skimmed off the top to buy vacation homes and cadillacs for the insurance company managers. Then, when you get sick, you are reimbursed from that great big pool of money. If it was just your money in that pool, you’d die because yuo could hardly afford an aspirin in the hospital. You get treated because everyone else is paying for you, too.
All well and good, provided you don’t mind the vig the insurance company takes off the top as profit. Other than that, there is no difference between private health insurance or public health insurance. Well, no other difference than the ubiquitous horror stories we hear about the private insurer denying people their coverage for the most trivial reason simply in order to make themselves look good in their job.
Quaker: I was horrified by the prospect of such a thing. I could have flown to India to verify the story, as I know you would have done, but my Passport had expired. Sorry.
El Cid: Gee, Cid, I don’t know. Why would you? A real puzzle, eh?
Lesson for Quaker: never give Frank an opportunity to dodge the real issue — if you care what he thinks, that is.
Who pays for your health-care, Frank?
No, it’s a serious question. Given the plethora of blogs dedicated to discussing the details of Democratic proposals on health care (even the Ezra Klein WP blog), why is it somehow incumbent upon me to waste my time with a bunch of lunatic right wing trolls who come to Oliver Willis’ primarily snark blog and dedicate myself to these arguments with them which never go anywhere?
I watch you guys literally go on for months on this blog on these bullshit backs & forths in idiot pseudo-debates and all simply because you mainly want to come to a liberal snark blog and debate your insane paranoias about how you are the reincarnations of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, etc.
What? Is there a suggestion that you deserve it? That you have made some substantial point which has not been answered? What? What are you suggesting is my responsibility here?
Do I do this? Do I go to right wing blogs and fart out idiot questions and then troll around and demand that every commenter there drop their entire lives and suddenly revolve around answering my points?
What? What are you saying?
Jaim: not you … And I pay $298 a month … What do you pay for your health plan?
Note to Quaker and Wilbur: What would be the relevancy of “questioning” it? The idea that it could happen was horrifying; the idea that it didn’t happen in India, or Indiana, for that matter, didn’t matter.
At the time I was reading it or watching it on television, it seemed authoritative.
And I pay $298 a month … What do you pay for your health plan?
That’s nice. You know, people not benefiting from “socialized medicine” like you are paying nearly one-fifth of their income on health insurance.
Zython, why don’t you give it up?
a) The question came from Jaim, not you.
b) You would have to know what my income is to know whether or not $298 a month is less than one-fifth of my income. I have no intention of telling you what my income is, but you are wrong – it is quite a bit more than one – fifth.
c) If anybody here would like to volunteer the information, who else is paying $298 a month, or more, for their medical plan, regardless of their income?
d) And since the quotes around socialized medicine are meant to imply that I get free medical care, that’s wrong, too.
So, Congratulations, Zython! You got stuff wrong you didn’t even know about.
Oh, and the link didn’t work, schmeckele
So, Congratulations, Zython! You got stuff wrong you didn’t even know about.
Oh, and the link didn’t work, schmeckele
Works just fine for me. Maybe you need to use a different browser.
As for the rest, I have my doubts, but won’t pry, as it’s in the realm of possibility.
Pandagon.net won’t open. Are you ever right?
Oh, Jesus Christ, Frank. I don’t know how you think the internet works (series of tubes? OLOL), but it’s not my fault that you can’t open a valid web address. You’re either using a bad browser (IE?) or it’s being blocked by your ISP (Comcast?).
300$/mo. for a private plan? At your age and apparently poor health, I doubt it.
You pay 300$/mo. for a subsidized government health plan, correct?
How is that not “socialist” medicine? And why are you such a hypocrite?
FWIW, I pay about 50$/mo. (60,000 won) for health care. Haven’t needed to use it, but if I show up at a hospital I show them my little book and they take care of me. I’d get a bill, but it would be small enough that I could pay it in cash.
Jaim, you’re just an asshole — I must learn to simply ignore you.
If you had even a per cent of the intelligence you pretend you have , you could connect the dots.
Being informed , or doing a few minutes research is obviously not your forte. Shooting your mouth off is about all you’re good at .
Zython, once again, you are wrong, I have been using the Internet since 1996 (when you were 4 years old), before IE even existed , and Netscape ruled the roost . Google cache shows there is a login required , which might be a problem.
I have opened the site before , so I don’t think my ISP has blocked it.
I tried Bing and found the predecessor to Pandagon.net, Pandagon.blogsome.com, where you are given a link to http://pandagon.net — It won’t open.
It WON’T open.
Wanna teach me some more about the Internet ?
Link worked for me just fine.
Maybe try upgrading from at Atari 800?
In case anybody was unclear on how Superman and President Obama feel about one another, look no further than here:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0DmcSnuHZFlpQ4EuJ6VcDfPaja1g_bnzFtqAKW_3dv0nhJzuaZhofUW9dgF1wQqej1KpG0aRB8R5C0TwlWZjBQ/Patriotic%20Images/superman%20obama.jpg
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