PUBLIC OPTION: Flood The Zone
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“This is our moment, this is our time.”
– Barack Obama
The idea of “flooding the zone” is most often related to football. It is not a complex concept to get. Essentially the point is to overwhelm your opponent to the point that he can’t respond, or even if he does respond it turns out to be pretty ineffectual. You play offense, not defense, and you play to win the game – not just to keep your lead (if you have one).
In the world of journalism and activism there are two recent examples of this worth noting. The first was from the New York Times, who set out to “own” the story of the 9-11 attacks. Their reporting, under the banner of “A Nation Challenged” was among the best to come out of the disaster and won them a Pulitzer. More recently we had Andrew Sullivan linking and aggregating coverage of Iranian protest versus the election results.
For the American people, the fight for health care reform is that important. Lives are actually at stake. We have to flood the zone versus those who would stand in the way of reform, whether that’s conservatives, the media, Democrats, and even President Obama himself.
So what I’m going to do, and urge others to do with their blogs, twitter accounts, etc. is to pull together, point to, and generate as much information on health care reform with a public option in order to overwhelm those who seek to oppose this important step forward for America, until we get a signed bill.
Let’s flood the zone.
(Please send your public option links, data, video, images, etc. to publicoption@oliverwillis.com)
74 Responses to “PUBLIC OPTION: Flood The Zone”
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Is is possible Obama, months ago, anticipated GOP resistance to a public health care option and decided it was probably a smart thing to do to just let them put their viciousness into full public view? Let them walk out the leash, then say, “OK, you guys could have been part of the solution, now you’re just trying to sustain the problem.” The guy does play a “long game,” after all.
One more point… critics say Obama’s been inept at the politics of health care. But consider Grassley’s politics in this. Is it possible he’s walked into a trap whereby all he can do is present himself and party as purely obstructionist?
Sorry, I should e-mail this, but it seems relevant:
Rep. Anthony Weiner (D-NY) saying that the “public option” is the first step towards destroying the private health insurance industry:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/18/video-dem-wants-to-eliminate-private-health-insurance-altogether/
J.
Wanting competition for the health care industry is a far far cry from wanting its destruction. Frankly, a public option will push them to provide better services. Oh noes TEH COMPETITIONZZZ!!
Some “competition.”
The government doesn’t have to make a profit.
The government gets to rewrite the rules at any time, for any reason.
The government can cover its financial shortcomings at any time by simply jacking up taxes or borrowing more.
…and Weiner wasn’t talking about “competition,” but out-and-out destruction of the private market.
I guess he missed the memo about “if you like your plan, you can keep it.”
J.
Oh, and just to keep with the theme, you should have set up the e-mail address as flag@oliverwillis.com — that would have been far more appropriate.
J.
*Yawn*
Good call, Oliver — I should go back to sleep.
Thanks for the suggestion.
J.
America would be better off without a private insurance industry.
But until we get single-payer, I’ll settle for a decent public option that a) isn’t allowed to refuse people due to pre-existing conditions (like private insurers do) and b) forces private insurance to compete with fair, market-based prices rather than the out-of-control gouging that we have now.
Survey after survey shows the majority of Americans are content with their coverage, Jaim… but I’m sure they’ll reconsider after weighing the studied opinion of a punk ex-pat living on the other side of the world.
J.
“Survey after survey shows the majority of Americans are content with their coverage … .”
Ask the minority, see what they’re thinking. Anybody who knows anything about surveys knows that truth is in the eye of the beholder. Ask the 40 million or so how private healthcare is (not) working for them. Charity doesn’t count.
“Survey after survey shows the majority of Americans are content with their coverage, Jaim”
Like seniors, who get government health-care?
Or like someone with a pre-existing condition who can’t get any?
“a punk ex-pat living on the other side of the world”
Jay, I don’t live in my mom’s basement like you. I’ve traveled and lived abroad, and guess what? It actually gives me a lot of insight into how broken and inhumane the American health-care system is.
Sorry Jay, but there actually is a great big world out there that you’ll never experience. Don’t project your backwards parochialism onto me.
1. People are satisfied with the care they get from actual doctors and hospitals, not the denials of payment from their insurance companies and the massive bills that get rung up as a result of those insurance companies denying claims.
2. What value does a private health insurance company have?
Survey after survey shows that the majority of Americans want the government to provide a public option. What’s it like to be on the wrong side of history, Jay?
Here is a gr8 picture of our hero Keith Olbermann in a movie he did a few years back:
http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/42291/2266002780099010655S600x600Q85.jpg
Jaim, my mother’s been dead for two decades — her “basement” would be a very awkward place.
The rest of you — I was responding to Jaim’s call NOT for a “public option,” but a public MANDATE, with NO “private option.” As he said:
That’s right, NO private insurance whatsoever. Period.
And to clarify, Jaim has repeatedly declared himself as an American in his 20′s (perhaps early 30′s) who lives in South Korea for some time, so it’s been a while since he’s had any direct experience with the American health care — or health care insurance — system.
J.
And he pays no US Federal taxes. But careful, Jay Tea, Jaim has a very vivid name-calling vocabulary he picked up from his tough upbringing on the streets of Northern Virginia and at Sidwell Friends. It can be quite intimidating.
We have to flood the zone versus those who would stand in the way of reform, whether that’s conservatives, the media, Democrats, and even President Obama himself.
Shorter Oliver: Time to Astroturf, boys!!
Last week, “overwhelming”, “flooding the zone”, “crowd out other voices” was a *BAD* thing because Republicans were doing it. This week, it’s a good thing because Democratics are doing it.
Gotcha.
Some “competition.”
The government doesn’t have to make a profit.
The government gets to rewrite the rules at any time, for any reason.
The government can cover its financial shortcomings at any time by simply jacking up taxes or borrowing more.
Which explains why FedEx and UPS went bankrupt a long, long time ago. Good point.
Well, Indeed, you’ll notice that the USPS is going after their business now with the “flat rate” boxes. And the USPS has its own protected monopolies — first class mail, PO boxes, and the like.
FedEx and UPS make their money offering BETTER service than the USPS, for which people are willing to pay a premium. The USPS simply can’t compete with those two for the important stuff.
How many companies send their payroll checks through the mail, anyway? And how many of them overnight them through the private companies?
The USPS survives by dint of its government-imposed monopolies, and responds to financial shortfalls by raising rates and borrowing money from the federal government — two options that seldom work in the private sector.
J.
The government doesn’t have to make a profit.
Why is it necessary for them to be for profit in the first place? Health care should be about treating the sick and hurt, not about making a buck.
The government gets to rewrite the rules at any time, for any reason.
How is this any different from the corporate practice of the day? Remember where the major CEOs all stated they wouldn’t end the practice of recission? Insurance companies have long histories of denying coverage to clients for frivolous reasons, to protect their bottom line.
The government can cover its financial shortcomings at any time by simply jacking up taxes or borrowing more.
Have you noticed how corporate insurance rates have been climbing? Seems to me the same dynamic at work – the only difference is that the government can’t just ‘raise taxes’ it actually has to vote to raise them, which many are loathe to do, simply because of the political feedback. Whereas, corporations have much greater freedom to do so.
The insurance companies had over a decade to address major problems with it’s business. Prices were too high, too many people would not be covered for pre-existing conditions, and a substantial number found that if they got sick, they could easily be dropped, or find major portions of their treatment denied, especially for individual accounts. They did little, if they did anything.
We need this, we need it soon. It is not beyond our abilities to do, and it will not destroy the industry, though they will undoubtedly have to adapt; maybe they will convert to non-profit, or something I’m not anticipating at 6 am. But we have let people suffer too long to protect their bottom line, and instead of working with us, they have thrown every roadblock they can to stall discussion, block votes and otherwise derail debate. If they won’t deal honestly, then we really don’t need them.
I was waiting for that point by point rebuttal to Jay Tea’s fear of a competitive marketplace. Thanks to Indeed and Abanterer for clarifying things for everyone.
“The government doesn’t have to make a profit.”
–The government doesn’t have to pay its CEO millions of dollars in compensation, either.
“The government gets to rewrite the rules at any time, for any reason.”
–Last time I checked, insurers could also rewrite the rules by repeatedly raising deductibles and limiting coverage (as long as they notify you within the proper time period).
“The government can cover its financial shortcomings at any time by simply jacking up taxes or borrowing more.”
–See my point above about raising deductibles and limiting coverage, but add it raising insurance rates to employers as well. Haven’t we been seeing sharp increases in the cost of insurance lately?
A public option is the only way to keep them honest.
Seriously, folks. Very few people are talking about doing away with the private market. A public option would merely serve as a floor providing minimal health care for the public. Nothing I’ve seen would preclude private insurers from continuing to sell additional coverage over what the public option would provide. Think of the secondary add-on coverage plans for Medicare.
Flood the zone!!! Ha!
Only one problem, you don’t have 11 players, you only have 6 and the 5 you had, are wearing different jerseys!
Yeah, that horrible Post Office started by that America hating Communist, Ben Franklin….
I for one would be perfectly happy to see Wellpoint, Cigna, Kaiser Permanente, Blue Cross, et al. out of the business of standing between Americans and their doctors. To paraphrase Bobby de Niro, “I want these companies dead! I want their lobbyists dead! I want their plush offices paid for by the premiums of people they denied care to burnt to the ground! I want to go to their graves in the middle of the night and piss on their ashes!!”
I for one would be perfectly happy to see Wellpoint, Cigna, Kaiser Permanente, Blue Cross, et al. out of the business of standing between Americans and their doctors
Ah, the Democratic Slogan for 2010: We won’t stop till everyone we don’t like is unemployed!!!!!!!!
Good luck, bro.
Very few people are talking about doing away with the private market.
This is true. Only problem is those very few happen to be Congressmen and certain Executive Branchers
And their quarterback can’t throw a baseball to home plate, much less throw a football into a zone.
So if conservatives think “competition” from the government is a ruse to destroy private insurance companies, what should we conclude about their insistance that “competition” from private schools will make public schools better?
“And to clarify, Jaim has repeatedly declared himself as an American in his 20’s (perhaps early 30’s) who lives in South Korea for some time, so it’s been a while since he’s had any direct experience with the American health care — or health care insurance — system.”
My God. I didn’t think you or Dennis the little cowardly bitch could get any dumber.
Miracles happen I guess.
I moved to Korea about one year ago. Health-care here isn’t perfect, but it’s much better than the American system.
And I never had to leech off of it like you did to save your sorry and pathetic life.
“his tough upbringing on the streets of Northern Virginia and at Sidwell Friends. It can be quite intimidating.”
Again Dennis, I ask you this simple question: Are you fucking capable of typing something that isn’t wrong? I didn’t grow up in Virginia (although it’s a fine state).
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Sidwell Friends? Yes. Very good school. Gave me an interest in Asia, actually. How ’bout that?
“The government doesn’t have to make a profit.
Why is it necessary for them to be for profit in the first place? Health care should be about treating the sick and hurt, not about making a buck.”
We’re dealing with Jay Caruso and Denni here, not human beings.
But you’re absolutely correct.
Jaim frothed:
Again Dennis, I ask you this simple question: Are you fucking capable of typing something that isn’t wrong? I didn’t grow up in Virginia (although it’s a fine state).
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
And then, without a trace of irony, added:
Sidwell Friends? Yes. Very good school. Gave me an interest in Asia, actually. How ’bout that?
Looks like he typed something that wasn’t wrong, Jaim.
Out of the mouths of frothing, gibbering idiots, comes… well, froth and gibberish.
With a side dish of hysterical hyperbole for seasoning.
J.
Hmm… if I’m not a human being, then I can be exempted from ObamaCare, taxes, and homicide laws.
This sounds tempting…
Thanks again for confirming your status as “hysterical, hyperbolic asswipe,” Jaim. It needs refreshing every now and then.
J.
“Hmm… if I’m not a human being, then I can be exempted from ObamaCare, taxes, and homicide laws.”
No. Even pond scum like you has pay the rent.
Jesus, the taxes paid by me and other Americans saved your life. Will you ever acknowledge that? No? Just continue wallowing in your little Randian slough of despond?
Alas.
“Looks like he typed something that wasn’t wrong, Jaim.”
I went to Sidwell. Very good school. Obama’s kids will grow up to be contributors to our society, not unemployed leeches or full-time “bloggers.”
I didn’t grow up in Virginia though. Not that it really matters except to stalkers like you and cowardly punk-bitch Dennis.
You didn’t pay federal taxes, and the few dollars you may have contributed to FICA, even if all of it went to one person’s hospital stay, wouldn’t have paid for the jello square on the lunch tray, Jaim.
You’re a complete fraud. And if anyone is a Randian here, it’s the guy who left the country out of protest and disgust at not liking George Bush’s America…that or shear incompetence at not being able to find a teaching job in a time of 4.7% unemployment.
I’M the stalker, Jaim? You’re the delusional freak who “responds” to me in threads I haven’t even commented on.
We’re obsessed? You’re hung up on something that happened to me 15 years ago, when you were a callow teenager (as opposed to a callow alleged adult), and get upset when your so-called “stalker” gets some minutia about your oh-so-tedious biography wrong.
I pay plenty in taxes. Every week, about a third of my paycheck is taken in taxes and withholding and the like. What’s your percentage to Uncle Sam, Jaim?
I’ll make a deal with you. You tell us how much you paid in federal income taxes for the last year, I’ll post how much I’ve paid for the last five.
Here, now you can’t say I’m bluffing: in one year of the last five, I paid $2,058 purely in income taxes. DOUBLE the medical bill you seem so fixated upon.
And that excludes sales taxes (when I bought stuff out of state), meals taxes, gas taxes, utilities taxes, fees, and everything else under the sun.
I’ll wager that I paid more in the one year I cited than you have in the last three years.
So who’s the leech, Jaim?
J.
Since Medicare was set up the private insurance industry has benefitted, since it lost the portion of its policyholders who are most likely to be hospitalized in any given year. It’s high time the gravy train stopped.
What value does the insurance industry add that would justify its markup? They skim a profit off the top while delaying payments to health providers and while screwing the policy holders who actually become seriously ill.
Take the private personal sniping off to email. I’m warning you all for the last time.
Oliver,
Thank you.
Noted and logged, Oliver. My apologies. I shouldn’t have let myself get baited.
J.
The public just doesn’t believe Obama on this issue, no matter how many times he denies saying it.
Overwhelm the media as much as you want, and I hope the left does go it alone, at least then when the program is billions in debt we can say “we told you so”.
FedEx and UPS make their money offering BETTER service than the USPS, for which people are willing to pay a premium. The USPS simply can’t compete with those two for the important stuff.
Jeesus, Jay isn’t that the frickin point? The USPS, a government monopoly which provides first class mail delivery to your door for very low costs, has not driven private delivery out of business. On the contrary, UPS and FedEx have thrived by creating a market for their service.
A public option would provide a minimum threshhold of insurance for everyone. Private insurers would still be free to (1) offer policies to compete with the public options and (2) offer premium policies to those who could afford them.
Jeesus, Jay isn’t that the frickin point?
Yup, that’s the point.
I thought it was obvious, you know, like Obama was born in the U.S., life evolves, the earth is (much) more than 10,000 years old, Rush Limbaugh is a far right wing jabbering racist idiot, and other stuff. Some things are more obvious to the reality-based than to others, I reckon.
“Jeesus, Jay isn’t that the frickin point? The USPS, a government monopoly which provides first class mail delivery to your door for very low costs, has not driven private delivery out of business. On the contrary, UPS and FedEx have thrived by creating a market for their service.”
“On what planet do you spend most of your time?” (Thanks Barney)
You are using an organization that has a projected 7 billion dollar deficit this year as an example that people are supposed to feel better about?
Maybe if they actually ran the USPS like UPS or Fedex they wouldn’t be such a burdon to the taxpayers.
In case you havent figured it out yet, that is really the argument. The government only knows how to spend money, not make it. And that is why the majority wants as little of government in thier life as possible. It is just cheaper in the long run.
The USPS also has a mandate to provide 6 day delivery to every address in the US for 44c. Just like the public option will have the mandate to insure every American who wants insurance regardless of their income or previous history.
So on what planet do YOU spend your time? When private industry refuses, the government must sometimes take over. In case you haven’t figured it out, that really is the argument. Government has a right and obligation to provide support in case of a market failure like the health care “insurance” industry.
Hmm didn’t really see taking over private industry listed under the powers of congress, maybee it’s been penciled in since the last time I checked.
Overwhelm the media as much as you want, and I hope the left does go it alone, at least then when the program is billions in debt we can say “we told you so”.
Nah, if that happens, we’ll just say “Stay the Course(TM)”. But at least even if that happens, we would be SAVING lives with it, not taking them away.
Enlightened Liberal,
Earth, specifically the United States.
First off, the USPS know thier obligations every year. That doesnt account for being billions in the hole. I could ALT + TAB and use the same example with the electric or water company; who dont run billions in deficits. This issue like many is not a question of legality but of politics and grabbing power – The End.
The “Federal Government” (Executive, Legislative, Judicial) only has the rights declared in the Constitution, no more and no less.
10th Ammendment clearly states:
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
All of our Social Programs are illegitimately seized:
“Mr. Roosevelt knew that the Federal Government did not have Constitutional authority to interfere in social welfare problems and said so quite effectively before becoming President of the United States. The Founders clearly did not intend to grant such authority to the Federal Government, as shown in the Federalist papers and other writings.
Social Security legislation, including Medicare, violates Constitutional principles. In a speech to the employees of the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, on October 23, 1962 (U.S.D.H.E.W. 17, US Govt Printing Office: 1963, O-685-624)”
Frances Perkins 4th United States Secretary of Labor
Connfession to Congress Nov. 11, 1971
Zython,
Here is a preview of your government run healtcare only the Doctors wont have the opt out option, they will have to close thier doors beacuse they cant pay the light bills.
Government Run = Too Big too Succeed
I don’t know, Suicidal, lots of people can’t pay after ER visits, and the hospitals seem to run fine.
Could that be because of PRIVATE insurance?
Oh no, government run health care!! Run for the hills.
Could that be because of PRIVATE insurance?
Considering that they can’t pay because private insurance companies won’t cover them, I would have to say yes.
Noted and logged, Oliver. My apologies. I shouldn’t have let myself get baited.
Jain didn’t bait you, I don’t think he was even talking to you when you started the personal attacks. I wish it’d be clamped down on a bit more. Personally SFC B has laid personal insults against me that were disgusting with hardly a word from anyone and I definitely post here less because of it. Keep it clean or go home, I say.
Oh no Totally illegal!
You can try to be sarcastic all you want Oliver, since you cant debate the fact that all this social bullshiat is a subversion of the law.
Zython,
Sorry but no matter how much you try to bend and twist the Constitution healthcare is not a right.
National Healthcare may be morraly right, but it is not legal as the federal government has not been granted the power to do this.
This can only be done legally at the state level, anything else is an illegitimate seizure of power.
This can only be done legally at the state level, anything else is an illegitimate seizure of power.
Worse than Hitler, apparently.
I’m taking a nap. Someone wake me when Indeed says something — ANYTHING — germane.
(Settling in for a bit of hibernation…)
J.
Indeed,
Maybe you are Ok with governement abusing powers, I am not. It has gone on too long and it is only getting worse.
Here is a preview of your government run healtcare
Calling Suicidal: No one…nope, no one is proposing government run healthcare. Under the current legislation, no doctors will become government employees. No hospitals will be taken over by the feds. No “government bureaucrats” will come between you and your doctor to decide what treatments you can get.
So what are you talking about?
Sorry but no matter how much you try to bend and twist the Constitution healthcare is not a right.
Firstly, would that mean you oppose Medicare and Social Security?
Secondly, wouldn’t that mean that it would be perfectly legal for me to infect you with the Ebola virus?
Now I know what you’re thinking “I said ‘health care’, not ‘health’”, which would seem to be a very valid point. But consider this: if you deny health care to those that said health care would improve their health, is that not the same as denying them their health?
Quaker,
This is just a stepping stone, see my earlier post at what Obama’s end goal is.
Zython,
Yes I do oppose Medicare and Social Security at the federal level since it is a violation the powers granted to them.
Even if murder is not defined in the constitution, powers are granted to the state governments in the 10th ammendment so they can basically define any law that does not violate the constitution, so your arguement is moot.
I am not saying providing the general population with healthcare, social security, welfare, Medicaid, etc.. is illegal or wrong, what I am saying is that it is beyond the scope of the federal government as defined in the constitution because they were not granted those powers, The state government(s) were granted those powers.
So unless they are proposing a constitutional ammendment to be ratified by the states this is an exercise in illegality.
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
Jay Tea: Some “competition.”
The government doesn’t have to…
The government gets to…
The government can…
Yeah, that’s why you don’t see private schools or universities anymore. They got run out of business by public schools and state colleges.
Just like the post office killed FedEx and UPS.
This is just a stepping stone, see my earlier post at what Obama’s end goal is.
I see. Stuff you made up. Not interested.
No one is proposing nationalized healthcare.
You’re right, Sean. I was just old enough to remember the great public uprising DEMANDING that the government institute a low-cost rival with the big shipping companies, designed specifically to compete with them and drive down their costs and their obscene profits. People were Fed-Up (that there’s a pun, son) and won the reforms in the shipping business we enjoy today.
Quaker, kindly distinguish between “nationalized healthcare” and “single-payer” for me. And after you admit that they are pretty much one and the same, kindly review this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndStT6c93rc
Senator Russ Feingold, Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, columnist Paul Krugman, Representative Barney Frank, blogger Ezra Klein, Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel, Representative Jan Schakowsky all pushing the “public option” as a Trojan horse for “single payer.”
As I keep saying… there are an awful lot of people on Obama’s side who keep stating that “public option” means “single payer,” and Obama’s promise of “if you like your plan, you can keep it” simply won’t happen.
J.
Public option first, single payer later.
Makes perfect sense, and it’s the right thing to do. Private insurance can remain for elective stuff like plastic surgery or cosmetic dental work.
It’s how developed countries do things.
Only a Randian loon like yourself could actually defend the existence of Big Insurance, which is just a modern-day form of usury.
You do realize that MBAS’s and lawyers don’t make people any healthier?
Odd, Jaim, how the lawyers overwhelming went for Obama.
And MBAs do make people healthier. Who do you think administers all those companies doing medical research that keeps pushing our life expectancy up? That makes our heath CARE the greatest in the world? Here’s a hint — it ain’t Greenpeace and community organizers and union leaders.
“Profit” isn’t a zero-sum game, you ignorant git. When someone gains, it does not mean that someone automatically loses.
J.
Jay Tea: You’re right, Sean. I was just old enough to remember the great public uprising DEMANDING that the government institute a low-cost rival with the big shipping companies,…
Resorting to sarcasm rather than acknowledge or even address the point (that the existence of a government supported program doesn’t put private companies out of business).
Can we just call that one tactic # 18?
That makes our heath CARE the greatest in the world?
You’re French?
I mean, uh, “U!S!A!! U!S!A!! We’re number 37! We’re number 37! Whooo hoo!!”
Assign it whatever number you like, Sean — it’s hardly exclusive of either side.
The point I’m making here — let me quote myself from another thread.
It was people Fed-Up (that there’s a pun, kiddies) with the USPS that they started competitors that offered people what the USPS couldn’t be bothered to do (including responsive customer service). Pity that won’t be legal under single-payer.
J.
It was people Fed-Up (that there’s a pun, kiddies) with the USPS that they started competitors that offered people what the USPS couldn’t be bothered to do (including responsive customer service). Pity that won’t be legal under single-payer.
So under single-payer, no one could ever purchase any other health care ever? Who knew? At least we know–from an example so awesome J. decided to repeat it–is that J. favors the Public Option. Who knew?
But the point I’m making here–let me just quote myownself from something else awesome I said elsewhere:
I rule, libtards drool. Infinity. Hahahahahahaha!!!!!
Hm? Did Indeed say something germane?
Shoulda known better.
Back to sleep…
J.
Did Indeed say something germane?
Indeed. You wrote
“Pity that won’t be legal under single-payer
and I called your sorry ass out on it (but I made it funny by mocking your sorry ass all the while).
Here, I’ll make is easy for you:
1. Name one single single-payer system where extra health care is illegal.
2. Has anyone–ever–proposed a system in the U.S. where that would be the case?
3. Kneel before Zod!
Quaker, kindly distinguish between “nationalized healthcare” and “single-payer” for me. And after you admit that they are pretty much one and the same,
No, I insist. After you.
I mean “After you tell us who is proposing either.”
Jay getting slapped around yet again. Always good times.
For an example, here in Korea everyone pays a monthly fee into the medical system (and one into the country’s general tax and retirement system as well). Everybody’s covered, including legal aliens like me. If I go to the hospital I show them my card and I pay an amount that is easily affordable with a few pieces of paper money.
If I want to (I don’t) I can easily purchase private insurance for things like dental and cosmetic surgery (which happens to be pretty popular here).
You also pay more for thing like a private room if you need longer-term care, and this is actually no different than in America. It’s much cheaper, actually.
And hey, Koreans live longer than Americans (even though a lot of them smoke, like the French who also live longer than us) so they must be doing something right. (My guess is that it has a lot to do with people walking everywhere more often than they drive, at least in the cities.)
But please Jay, continue to shit yourself and tell us how awful countries with a national health-care system are. Please, you world-traveler who knows how it “really is” outide of your mom’ basement.
Jay Tea: It was people Fed-Up (that there’s a pun, kiddies) with the USPS that they started competitors that offered people what the USPS couldn’t be bothered to do (including responsive customer service). Pity that won’t be legal under single-payer.
You’re talking nonsense again.
First, single payer isn’t what has been proposed so you’re look-over-there-ing again so you can avoid having to talk about what actually IS being proposed.
Second, even under single payer there wouldn’t be anything outlawing someone providing a competing service if they could do so in a way that people would be willing to pay for it.
Third, it wasn’t people fed up with the post office that created FedEx et al. It was Smith coming up with an idea for a service that wasn’t offered by the post office and a business model that made it workable.