Mad Movement
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Paul Krugman on the insane that opposes President Obama.
This opposition cannot be appeased. Some pundits claim that Mr. Obama has polarized the country by following too liberal an agenda. But the truth is that the attacks on the president have no relationship to anything he is actually doing or proposing.
My best advice to the President (and the rest of the Democrats) is to simply quit listening to the opposition. Not Republicans in America, but the Republican elected leaders and punditocracy who no matter what will translate “comprehensive health care reform” into “death camps where the elderly are turned into soylent green” no matter what the President actually says. Just ignore them, get the conservadems to quit dragging their feet, and get as good a bill addressing actual concerns that we can get.
We saw this with the stimulus bill, as Republicans pushed all sorts of efforts to water the bill down – some of which were foolishly included – and then proceeded to vote against it anyway, and to badmouth it before the ink was even dry. And now? The bill seems to have helped do what it was designed to: soften the economy’s decline and assist in a rebound.
Right now Republicans and conservatives are engaged in the worst sort of hyperbole and blatant lying in order to either stop health care reform or at least appear to have stopped the progress of the bill. We’ve been debating this idea for 40+ years, but suddenly they need time to discuss the specifics – which they’ll be against anyways.
I know the Dems – the most risk averse incarnation of a political party in American history, so help me God – are afraid of losing seats. Chances are this will happen one way or the other, it tends to in the first congressional election after a presidential one (2002 was an outlier, largely prompted by risk averse Dems caving on the Iraq War). Better to lose seats and have serious reform pass than to hand the Republicans victory and as a “bonus” leave millions still uninsured.
The opposition in this country checked out some time last year and they haven’t been serious – even allowing for a generous interpretation of what is serious, including ghouls like Dick Cheney – so why should we treat them as such? You don’t pretend that a cancerous lump is a beauty mark, nor should we pretend that the Republican party and the conservative movement is serious about anything besides throwing excrement on the walls.
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The views on this site are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the views of my employer, Media Matters for America
© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Oliver: Occasionally I want to rent a billboard and project your remarks on it. This is one such occasion.
Amen, and amen. You are so totally right, both in assessment (“the most risk averse incarnation of a political party in American history”) and advice for Dems.
And I may have taken the town meeting confrontations too seriously. As Olbermann said, “the stupid sowing fear among the stupid.” Or words to that effect. Continue exposing the Republicans’ Rent-a-Crank program for what it is.
‘he bill seems to have helped do what it was designed to: soften the economy’s decline and assist in a rebound.’
Much as I generally respect Krugman, he’s one to talk; he has consistently maligned the stimulus plan and was soundly against it as being insufficient to achieve its stated goals. Now that it appears to be working, he’s all for it?
So anyone who has a different opinion than Obama is “insane”? “Liars”? “Checked out”? I’ve heard of demonizing your opponent, but this is ridiculous. If anyone here is lying, it’s Obama (“You get to keep your health care you have now”, “What I’ve proposed is a net spending cut”, “No new taxes on people under $200K”). If anyone’s checked out, it’s politicians who refuse to listen or meet with their constituents. If anyone’s insane, it’s you thinking that Republicans are/would be to blame for failure to pass a health care bill. Republicans couldn’t stop anything if they wanted to: they simply don’t have the votes. Democrats control EVERYTHING. So they, not some convenient strawmen, deserve the blame.
And now? The bill seems to have helped do what it was designed to: soften the economy’s decline and assist in a rebound.
Except it’s not. It’s really not. It’s still not. Not even close.
As Lincoln said, you can’t fool all the people all the time. After running his campaign as a cypher, people are finally figuring out who Obama is and what he stands for. And they don’t like it.
Teabaggers, though apparently outnumbered, refused to be out-crazied at an anti-health care reform anti-Hitlerbama rally in Michigan.
Via MLive (H/T Electablog on GOS):
Clearly this was just an ACORN / SEIU trick by which one of their Manchurian candidates got elected as a County Commissioner.
I am really, really going to laugh and point at these people when this health care reform passes. It might not, but I really, really think it will.
Krugman maintained then and maintains now that the stimulus was inadequate to the task of not only slowing or ending the recession but actually putting the real economy — i.e., actual humans who make up the majority of the U.S. population — and that a larger (then) or second (now) stimulus focusing on what was not addressed the first time would be needed.
There is no hypocrisy, and there is no change, as far as I can tell. If someone tells you that the recession is ending but that unemployment may linger for years at just under 10%, and that something could be done about that but isn’t, that’s not a conflict — it’s an analysis.
I thought Barack Obama was supposed to transcend the divisiveness that Bush and Clinton created.
He was going to be different.
Hope and Change. A joke.
The guy doesn’t know how to listen, and his far Left base tells him don’t even bother. So the whole transcend thing was all just b.s. Ok, Oliver, tell him to draw the line in the sand and see where that gets him if he takes that genius advice.
Listen to what, Dennis? Being asked why he was sending a”stormtrooper” to your mom’s house to kill her?
Oliver’s points are perfectly valid. The GOP hasn’t even offered an alternative for improving health-care in America, they’ve accused him of being Hitler. That isn’t discourse by any sane definition.
Another point Mr. Willis made recently: During the massive deficit spending of the Bush administration, there wasn’t a single “tea party” or “tea-bagger.” Please stop pretending that you guys are standing on principle here beyond IOKIYAR, but it’s not OK if you’re a Democratic president, not to mention a black one.
You guys belong at the kiddie table, ignored by the adults. Don’t think Obama hasn’t learned from this — you guys can’t be reasoned with, so you will be rightfully ignored until you come up with ideas, not slurs. And if slurs are the only thing you can offer, you remain a dying party.
‘So anyone who has a different opinion than Obama is “insane”? “Liars”? “Checked out”? I’ve heard of demonizing your opponent, but this is ridiculous.’
Really? But I’m sure you had no problem with Bush characterizing opponents of his draconian measures as ‘traitorous,’ ‘un-patriotic,’ and ‘with the terrorists?’
Your fake outrage is bullshit. When the Right decides to stop recruiting hysterical and puerile dissenters, or to step up and denounce the lies and distortions being hurled by the likes of Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh, then perhaps you’ll have some credibility. Until then, the insanity tag sticks because it’s deserved.
“I thought Barack Obama was supposed to transcend the divisiveness that Bush and Clinton created.”
Funny, that’s not why I voted for him. I did it because I wanted to save my country from the reckless, failed, and moronic policies of the GOP.
‘There is no hypocrisy, and there is no change, ‘
He said it wouldn’t work and now he says it is working; draw your own conclusions.
I’ve got nothing against Krugman, in fact I think he’s one of the more reasoned voices out there, but he hasn’t been supportive of the stimulus plan even though in this article he admits it’s working.
‘I thought Barack Obama was supposed to transcend the divisiveness that Bush and Clinton created.
He was going to be different.’
You don’t see a difference?
What a surprise.
Yeah. That mean old non-transcendy Obama, going around the country scaring old people by threatening to send them to Death Panels. How dare he not have interpreted this absolutely groundless type of deceitful insane opposition to a sensible reform?
Anyone who sees crazy stuff and says it’s crazy is exactly like how the USSR sent dissidents forcibly to insane asylums. There’s no difference. It’s exactly the same. Exactly. And all because Obama is so divide-y.
I do see a difference, jrfunky. I see more divisiveness.
A lot more. The liberals I know personally that were so vocal the last four years are now suddenly turned into quiet little mice when the subject of politics comes up. The ones who would step into my office in the morning and say things like ‘what about that Bush, do you believe what he just said?’, are now suddenly mum.
I don’t know what you see up in Canada, but that’s the view I have down here in the states.
You know, everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some of you Lefties here really abuse the privilege.
But what the heck, it makes for good entertainment.
He’s the one doing all the talking, El Cid. He’s a talker, not a listener; that’s his problem. He’s not like Clinton that way, not even close.
‘Town Halls’ a Chance for the President, Not the Public, to Vent
Obama talking: 9.
Obama listening: 1.
Robert Gibbs describes that as ‘a good conversation’.
Hope. Change. Transcendance.
During the massive deficit spending of the Bush administration, there wasn’t a single “tea party” or “tea-bagger.” Please stop pretending that you guys are standing on principle
You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Obama is talking to all of America, like Clinton did. Bush consistently spoke to the head-nodding crowd, that was the crucible of his entire strategy. Sure, it led him to re-election, it also led him to be one of the least popular presidents in history.
We elected Obama to do his best to transcend our entrenched politics, but the GOP minority insists on not helping out to run the country. Its past time we keep letting you people hobble America.
You people?
He’s talking. He’s not listening. He and ‘his people’ are demonizing people who voice dissent.
In short, he’d dividing. And that’s not what he campaigned on.
I thought Barack Obama was supposed to transcend the divisiveness that Bush and Clinton created.
Wait, Clinton created divisiveness? Not Newt and his cronies? No, really, pull the other one.
It’s rather hard to transcend divisiveness when the other side won’t meet you half-way and is, in fact, creating factionalism by constantly conflating your policy with OMG!teh socialisms.
At 9:02 I said: “You know, everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some of you Lefties here really abuse the privilege.”
Damn Oliver, you just went to the head of the class with that little rant.
Head of the class and a GOLD STAR to boot!
And by “you people” he means you people.
‘So anyone who has a different opinion than Obama is “insane”? “Liars”? “Checked out”? I’ve heard of demonizing your opponent, but this is ridiculous.’
Who was it that said “If you’re not with us, then you’re with the terrorists.”?
Pull the iPod earbuds out of your asses and listen, people. Listening requires active cognitive reception and not syringing talking points into the tympanic membrane.
To all the hope-change deniers, well, see the thing is for something to change, it requires an aptitude and attitude for it, not a “sit back and show me” attitude. Which is what some of those fat and wrinkly overpaid suits in Washington like to do, or like some of the wrinkled plumber-cracked-in-the-head posters to, I suppose.
Change is natural and organic and happens without most people even realizing it despite what the reactionaries think or want.
Dennis, SaveFerris, and Joaquin are evil, stupid, or insane, or a combination of the three. You can’t ignore reality so blatantly for so long and be anything else.
I don’t know, Duros. Who did say that?
Whoever you think may have said that, was being divisive, wasn’t he? Whenever some is said to transcend that divisiveness, it’s generally well known that there will be opposition, that’s a given. But he was supposed to rise above it. He showed signs of it in the campaign. Now he’s demonizing with reckless abandon, and he’s losing independents.
That’s not transcendance. He’s politics as usual.
And once again, Dennis conveniently avoids answering the question.
Who was it that said “If you’re not with us, then you’re with the terrorists.”? Seems simple enough to answer. Why not enlighten us with a response?
Look, it’s really VERY easy. If Obama would simply choose to back and implement policies preferred by a loud, irrational, tiny GOP base minority which hardly believes he’s a citizen, then it would do a LOT more to make that Democrat-hating minority feel MUCH more included. Why won’t Obama TRANSCEND???
Love it. Wingers stamping their feet and screaming their heads off and then blaming Obama for being “divisive.” They can’t get over it, so all they want to try and do is insult and annoy everyone else. Hoping Obama fails, just like their godhead tells them.
He’s losing Democrats, too, El Cidster.
Rep. Anthony Weiner gets earful from seniors with questions about ‘communist’ health care plan
Chuck Schumer’s old district. Bluer than blue.
And sadder than sad.
Love it, August? And about those polls? Not just Obama’s approval ratings, but the ones on the issues…the economy, the deficit, healthcare bill. Loving that too?
How about a nice little comic strip on how the polls don’t matter now?
“He’s not listening.”
Why should he listen to people who say he’ll send stormtroopers to kill their mommies?
There’s adult-style discourse, then there’s the GOP mob.
And I’ll take Obama’s approval numbers over Bush’s any day. Lest we forget, we’ve still got over three years to go before we can conclusively say whether or not his presidency has been successful.
Rep. Anthony Weiner gets earful from seniors with questions about ‘communist’ health care plan
Dennis, if you don’t see the irony in that headline, you’re hopeless.
I’ll give you a hint: How many of those seniors are willing to give up Medicare?
Call them stupid, Southern Quaker, but they’re Weiner’s constituents.
And Obama’s.
I’ll give you a hint: How many of those seniors are willing to give up Medicare?
I so wish someone at one of those town halls would use that retort right back at the elderly “keep the government off my healthcare” boobs.
“Hey Granny–when you gunna rip up that Medicare card of yours?”
He had her, and now he’s lost her.
Peggy Noonan: From ‘Yes, We Can,’ to ‘No! Don’t!’
Obama turns out to be brilliant at becoming, not being, president.
How about a nice little comic strip on how the polls don’t matter now?
Ok, deal.
Wait — being a constituent of a Democratic Congressman makes you (a) a Democrat and (b) correct?
The weeping and gnashing of teeth will be loud among Republicans when Obama’s health care reform is passed.
And as even Bill Clinton, great listener, emphasized, when it does, then a year or so out from the loony moaning and weeping, as old people find they’re not being killed by homosexual shari’a law goth DEATH PANELS and many people start to realize that their health insurance won’t bankrupt them or kick them off anymore, they’ll like it, and then Democrats will reap much stronger electoral rewards for having ignored the GOP idiot squads.
Obama confided, according to another Congressman, that he’d risk being a one-term president in order to pass health care legislation. Apparently he doesn’t share your false internet bravado, El Cid.
Obama confided, according to another Congressman, that he’d risk being a one-term president in order to pass health care legislation.
Are you saying that Obama puts COUNTRY FIRST? Even ahead of political ambition?
The nerve.
Wait until McCain gets wind of this.
Wait until McCain gets wind of this.
This is Excellent news for McCain, no doubt about that.
Obama knows that if he doesn’t pass it, he’s a one-timer for sure, which is why he admonished the Blue Dogs for trying to destroy his presidency, according to reports.
Dennis, I’m still waiting to hear whether you think the ends justify the means. Is it okay for Republicans – talking heads, politicians, and the general citizenry on the right – to make up total fabrications (e.g., death panels) in order to defeat health care reform? Also, is it okay for them to make up total bullshit in order to try and undercut Obama and reduce his popularity?
Hmmm, Dennis? Would you care to answer whether honesty in argument is important? Or is just “winning” important? I would love to know. Because I think that the jackasses who are making shit up are being completely unethical.
Also, you’re smart enough to know that a simple count of words from Obama and a town hall (regardless of the 9-to-1 ratio) is a really, really stupid measure, and means nothing. I mean, that’s really stupid.
Eh, Mr. Chicken. I’m told that the language about the fictitious and fabricated ‘death panels’ language will be dropped from the bill. Yep, it was all made-up.
Those rascal conservatives sure have fertile imaginations. he he he!!!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_end_of_life_2
Oh, and here are some other made-up facts.
Obama now has a 47% approval rating.
Unemployment is at 10%
States are on the verge of bankruptcy.
US soldiers death in Afghan are over 700
Personal bankruptcy is at an all time high.
Consumer confidence is in the toilet.
etc etc etc
joaquin, you’re too stupid to realize that your link refutes you. You fucking idiot.
Yeah right!
US soldiers death in Afghan are over 700
It took a black guy becoming president for you to finally give a shit about this?
Those rascal conservatives sure have fertile imaginations.
They must have when they created the “death panels” four years ago.
Dear Lefty Kids,
Why didn’t the congressional Democrats defend their own cherished bill?
If it was so terribly wrong to say “death panels”
why wasn’t it easy to crush nutjob Sarah Palin for what she said?
By backing down and removing the language she leveraged, Dems not only appear to admit she had a point, they sacrifice valuable credibility that they’re going to need to promote what’s left of the bill.
When it comes to political savvy, you guy aren’t even in kindergarten. PFFFFFT!
“All you need is Jesus”-Chuck Grassley
So… nothing on the 246 Republican members of Congress who supported the bill. Just bragging that your side got what it wanted through tantrums. Figures.
But honestly, guys, joaquin is right, though it’s amazing how proud he is of it- most Democrats really don’t know how to debate with a party completely overrun with crazy people acting like screaming children.
Those rascal conservatives sure have fertile imaginations. he he he!!!
More like having no imagination:
“the provision had been dropped from consideration because it could be misinterpreted or implemented incorrectly.”
-And who would be dumb enough to to that?
“In a widely quoted Facebook posting, former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin charged that federal bureaucrats would play God, ruling on whether ailing seniors or children with Down syndrome — such as Palin’s son Trig”
Many news organizations — debunked Palin’s claim. The provision that caused the uproar would authorize Medicare to pay doctors for voluntary counseling about end-of-life care.”
In other words, the Wasilly Sod Princess inteprets “counseling” as a fiery cremation oven for her down-syndrome stage prop. Now her equally incurious devotees and chat-board eunichs like joaquin repeat the accusation without the slightest bit of inquiry. Pretty much the game plan all along.
Like I said before* and what O.W. says now, why bother with oppostion thats this stupid and braying?
* http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/07/more-video-of-the-gop-mob-attack-in-florida/#comment-169234
joaquin is right about one thing: Democrats in Congress are absolute idiots politically.
Which is why it will be all the more impressive, and painful, for Conservatives when a strong health care bill is passed and signed.
Conservatives, though, are wrong to think we ought deny reimbursement to doctors for assisting Medicare recipients for living will and matters relating to potentially terminal illnesses or highly risky procedures and other similar voluntary consultations.
What, are doctors supposed to do this for free?
Are conservatives volunteering to help pay for this?
Or do they just get off shouting “DEATH PANEL” so they can laugh about vulnerable people not able to afford such assistance?
But, please, don’t let me interrupt the right wingers who visit liberal blogs and complain that ‘BUH NOBODY HERE LIKES ME!!!’
Is it just me or does Dennis get a little stupider every day?
But, please, don’t let me interrupt the right wingers who visit liberal blogs and complain that ‘BUH NOBODY HERE LIKES ME!!!’
Come on Cid! I love visiting here!
August assumes that the labels “Conservative” and “Republican” are interchangeable.
Aujust would be wrong.
Yes, those 246 Republicans are a bunch of liberals.
Negro, please.
Aujust would be wrong.
If you’re going to use a
WOLVERINES!!!Freedomworks article written by Dick Armey as a source of ideological purity, you should expect to be made fun of, and often at that.I can’t post a link right now, but there are some pretty interesting R2K poll results on Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Congress and other leaders, currently on the front page of Daily Kos.
But I promise the routine conservative commenters here — sure, I could be wrong, but, no, it’s not ‘false internet bravado’ (why would it be false? I’m not claiming to be an ex-astronaut or to kick peoples’ ass anonymously), I really think that comparatively strong health care reform will be passed and signed, righties will freak out again, the program will start to kick in and as it starts to make things better for most people, Democrats will achieve a deep and potentially long lasting political victory.
Is it *possible* that Democrats could screw it up completely or that what finally emerges as the House and Senate bills are godawfully weakened beyond recognition?
Sure. It’s possible. But I don’t think so. If you don’t agree, fine. But I think we’re shortly away from the largest reform of U.S. health care in history, and if the GOP thinks comments like Obama’s that ‘I’m willing to be one term’ will prove to favor them in the long run, then I think they’ve found yet another way to be insane.
Yes, those 246 Republicans are a bunch of liberals.
“It’s like these people take pride in being ignorant.” -Barack Obama
Pragmatism always wins over ideology.
Good nutrition, exercise and avoiding excess can help keep anybody healthy. But if one gets pancreatic cancer anyways, then good nutrition, exercise and avoiding excess probably won’t help much. Treating the cancer is needed. It’s called pragmatism.
If America was a human body, would wingnuts would be attacking cancer treatments as unpatriotic power grabs by the doctors? Or challenging the diagnosis made by experts as unpatriotic power grabs?
He’s talking. He’s not listening. He and ‘his people’ are demonizing people who voice dissent.
Dennis, you’re on record spreading lies about the health care reform bill. You’ve cheered the triumph of those lies.
You deserve to be demonized.
Can someone tell me what is the GOP alternate plan for healthcare reform, other than to scream NO NO NO NO at the top of their lungs?
The reason why the opponent of reform are being treated like unhinged wackos, is because they are acting like unhinged wackos. Again, where is the calm, reasoned, logical conservative alternate? Do they even have one?
The moment the healthcare reform issues hit front and center, the wingnuts, predictably, just freaked the fuck out and starting screaming the usual, tired same old same old….OMG SOCIALIZM COMMUNIZM THEY GONNA BE KILL GRANNY OH NOEZ!
No wonder they got treated like the freakshow they are.
Because at the core of it all, conservatives HATE change of any kind. They shit their pants at the prospect of change. They like to keep things just the way they are, because change could lead to, gasp, uncertainty and that terrorizes the little dittohead minds more than anything.
Again I have to reference that stupid white trash cunt who infamously screamed at that one townhall meeting “I want my country back! Waaaaa!”
What she really meant was, where’d all the white people go? She realizes, however painfully, that her little whitebread Norman Rockwell fantasy world of 1957 is no more and never will be again. There’s Mesicans in the neighborhood, and she has to press 1 for English. Oh noez! I want my country back, waaaaaa.
Pull the iPod earbuds out of your asses and listen, people.
Ur doin it wrong!
according to reports.
Some say Dennis goes to goat blowing parties hosted by Mickey Kaus.
Personal bankruptcy is at an all time high.
Hmmm. Wonder what could cause that?
Wow, Joaquin is a sock puppet.
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2009/08/if-it-was-completely-wrong-for-sarah.html
If you’re going to use a
WOLVERINES!!!Freedomworks article written by Dick Armey as a source of ideological purity, you should expect to be made fun of, and often at that.That takes some stones, I’ll give him that.
(why would it be false? I’m not claiming to be an ex-astronaut or to kick peoples’ ass anonymously)
I wondered about that myself, Cid.
Also, I’m with you. It’s gonna pass, one way or another, and we’ll be fine.
But I think we’re shortly away from the largest reform of U.S. health care in history, and if the GOP thinks comments like Obama’s that ‘I’m willing to be one term’ will prove to favor them in the long run, then I think they’ve found yet another way to be insane.
Ten years from now, we’ll look back and see this as the most important thing to happen since women got the right to vote.
Deal with it.
STILL waiting, Dennis. Still waiting. It’s been days now.
joaquin, again… you’re an idiot.
By backing down and removing the language she leveraged, they not only seem to admit she had a point, they sacrifice credibility that they need to promote what’s left of the bill.
The fact that we refuse to believe anything you say proves you aren’t trustworthy.
It should be noted, Quaker, that came from Ann “winebox” Althouse.
Oh shit, now I’ve done it.
Except it’s not. It’s really not. It’s still not. Not even close.
1st link: Of course retail sales are down. It’s f-ing August, and summer isn’t the big shopping season.
2nd link: The graph on the page seems to show a steady downward trend of unemployment from early ’09 levels. Care to explain that?
3rd link: Seems more like a failure to actually USE the money rather than the money not working.
4th link: The mortgage industry has been slow to adapt to the surge in foreclosures. Many lenders have needed government prodding to get up to speed with the Obama administration’s plan to stem foreclosures.
The Treasury Department said last week that banks have extended only 400,000 offers to 2.7 million eligible borrowers who are more than two months behind on their payments. More than 235,000, or 9 percent, those borrowers have enrolled in three-month trials in which their monthly payments are reduced.
Doesn’t sound like the government’s at fault here.
I thought Barack Obama was supposed to transcend the divisiveness that Bush and Clinton created.
Yeah, and now we know that was a fool’s errand.
Why didn’t the congressional Democrats defend their own cherished bill? If it was so terribly wrong to say “death panels” why wasn’t it easy to crush nutjob Sarah Palin for what she said?
It’s very simple to explain what’s really in the bill. It’s harder to convince mindless, drooling morons that they’ve been lied to by their chosen political leaders.
To wit, Joaquin, the bill never called for “Death Panels” or anything of the sort.
The bill would have compensated doctors for counseling patients, at the patients request, on end of care issues and concerns, including hospice and palliative care, as well as advanced directives, including the option to receive full treatment in the event of a medical emergency.
Text from the actual bill is available for you to check that out here: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text
The relevant section is Section 1233.
If you haven’t read it, I suggest you do.
Then come back here and tell us if you still believe that the bill calls for or “could lead to” “death panels.”
Something tells me, however, that you, like Dennis, are impervious to facts.
How many of you Obamabots have actually READ HR 3200?
Everything people are objecting to is IN THE BILL. MANDATORY “end-of-life” counseling sessions every five years. MORE OFTEN as “patient’s health deteriorates.” “Suggestions” offered during sessions for assisted suicide. What would YOU call urging people to deny themselves tests or treatment that could prolong their lives? Are any of you STUPID enough to believe that “death panels” means literally a panel of people before which elderly/sick/terminally ill individuals are paraded?
Damn, you people are NAIVE.
Everything people are objecting to is IN THE BILL. MANDATORY “end-of-life” counseling sessions every five years. MORE OFTEN as “patient’s health deteriorates.” “Suggestions” offered during sessions for assisted suicide.
Nan, please be so kind as to provide page and/or section numbers.
Suggestions” offered during sessions for assisted suicide.
Nancy, you’re a moron.
The link to bill is directly above.
I defy you to find any language in the bill that says any such thing and quote the exact language in this thread.
Are any of you STUPID enough to believe that “death panels” means literally a panel of people before which elderly/sick/terminally ill individuals are paraded?
Hey, we’re not the ones that actually believe that these “death panels” exist.
You know, there’s a great post on Pandagon about how this whole “death panel” thing is really just projection of a bunch of right winger’s child-like desire for immortality.
Betsy McCaughey has a reputation with the Polifact and Factcheck crowd as a regular liar. It’s a real shame the old adage that “rumors told about enemies are doubly believed” will beat out any desire to think and fact check, with these wingnuts.
Texas Nancy said – “Are any of you STUPID enough to believe that “death panels” means literally a panel of people before which elderly/sick/terminally ill individuals are paraded?”
We don’t believe it, you do. Have you forgotten already?
“… right winger’s child-like desire for immortality.”
Right wingers don’t die, they just fade away …..
‘I do see a difference, jrfunky. I see more divisiveness.’
Of course you do, because you’re now of the minority political opinion.
‘A lot more. The liberals I know personally that were so vocal the last four years are now suddenly turned into quiet little mice when the subject of politics comes up.’
That must make a nice change from Conservatives trumpeting how effective and inspiring a leader George Bush was, despite all evidence to the contrary.
I suppose the current political environment in the US has nothing to do with the unprecedented levels of acrimony and subterfuge the previous administration ushered in with such fanfare? Wasn’t there supposed to be a perennial Republican majority thanks to Rovian Decepticon tactics and pre-emptive wars for eternity?
What ever happened to that altruistic dream?
‘He’s talking. He’s not listening. He and ‘his people’ are demonizing people who voice dissent. ‘
He’s dispelling the myths and lies fomented by the likes of Palin and Limbaugh in order to actually INFORM people of the changes that are necessary for real reform.
I haven’t heard him ‘demonize’ dissent; I’ve heard him call bullshit on the fabricated distortions being perpetuated by the Right in order to further their cause by inciting easily mislead wingers with terms like ‘socialism’ and ‘death panels.’
Challenging lies may seem like demonizing to you, but for reasoned people, this is the proper approach to correct misinformation.
‘In short, he’d dividing. And that’s not what he campaigned on.’
The Right continues to sow the most obscene lies, and you think Obama is dividing the country?
Come on now.
‘Obama confided, according to another Congressman, that he’d risk being a one-term president in order to pass health care legislation.’
So Obama is willing to back up his principles with a conviction that would make Karl Rove run screaming from the room, and you see that as weakness, huh Dennis?
Bush was willing to sell out the soul of America to accomplish his ‘vision,’ which is supposed to be what? Endearing?
I would take a one term President who staked his legacy on reforming a system that rewards corporate greed at the expense of the health of the citzenry, over a 2 term President who would do anything to stay in power, even bankrupting the country morally and financially.
Which one would you choose? We already know the answer.
‘Obama knows that if he doesn’t pass it, he’s a one-timer for sure,’
Pure speculation; who do you think is waiting in the wings for the Right?
At this stage the Republicans could run Abe Lincoln and STILL lose.
‘Everything people are objecting to is IN THE BILL. MANDATORY “end-of-life” counseling sessions every five years. MORE OFTEN as “patient’s health deteriorates.’
That’s a load of unmitigated bullshit.
#
Something tells me, however, that you, like Dennis, are impervious to facts.
#
Nancy in Texas
August 14, 2009 at 7:30 pm
How many of you Obamabots have actually READ HR 3200?
Case in point.
Challenging lies may seem like demonizing to you, but for reasoned people, this is the proper approach to correct misinformation.
We call it debate. You call it demonizing.
Shame. It’s a renewable resource.
I would take a one term President who staked his legacy on reforming a system that rewards corporate greed at the expense of the health of the citizenry, over a 2 term President who would do anything to stay in power, even bankrupting the country morally and financially.
Hear, hear. Most emphatically, sir, hear, hear.
I can’t believe I missed this article before now.
Does this mean I can start saying that Obama isn’t MY president? I don’t wanna, but if Oliver’s saying that me and my ilk ought to be rejected out of hand, it seems only appropriate that I reciprocate…
I’d really, really rather not. In that case, I’d have to start talking about “President Biden…”
J.
I don’t wanna, but if Oliver’s saying that me and my ilk ought to be rejected out of hand, it seems only appropriate that I reciprocate…
How else should liars be treated, Jay Tea?
‘We call it debate.’
There’s no such thing as debating with lies and falsehoods; that’s simply called dishonesty.
And no, the Right obviously has no shame, hence the endless stream of fabrications and misinformation.
‘Hear, hear. Most emphatically, sir, hear, hear.’
So, you’d prefer Bush to Obama? What a surprise; one is trying to ensure ALL Americans have access to affordable health care, the other drained your economy in two failed wars and only gave a shit about wealthy cronies.
Care to explain why you would condone one and denigrate the other?
Bush was a total FAILURE, and yet you despise the guy trying to clean up his multiple disasters, and you think that makes sense?
How about like American citizens, fafaroo? How about like voters and taxpayers?
Sorry, shoulda realized that’s beyond your comprehension. I’d forgotten we are now in the age where dissent to the current presidential administration is now treason…
J.
You made your bed, Jay (Tea), now you gotta lie in it.
‘Sorry, shoulda realized that’s beyond your comprehension. I’d forgotten we are now in the age where dissent to the current presidential administration is now treason’
Are dissenters or opponents to health care reform called traitors? Are they labeled un-patriotic or in league with terrorists? Because that’s what happened to anyone who dared to disagree with King George the Dumyba.
BTW, dissent doesn’t mean standing up and shrieking like a harpy to disrupt and drown out debate; that’s just childish and immature.
<i‘Hear, hear. Most emphatically, sir, hear, hear.’
So, you’d prefer Bush to Obama?
What? No, I’m agreeing with you.