People warned me that Heath Shuler would fail in Washington again, I should have known.
Rep. Heath Shuler said Thursday night during a telephone town hall meeting that he opposes the House health care reform legislation because it would increase the deficit, doesn’t reduce the overall cost of health care and doesn’t do enough to promote people living healthier lives.
…
“I do not support HR3200 at the present time,” Shuler said during brief opening remarks, referring to the House bill that has passed three committees and will be eligible for consideration by the full House when Congress returns after Labor Day. “I do realize that we’ve got to reform parts of this system,” he said later.
We need someone else for NC-11 who won’t keep stabbing the Democratic party, and most importantly, North Carolina and America, in the back.
Heath may not be a bright man, but he’s literate enough to read the poll numbers on this debacle and knows that if he wants to keep his job, he needs to vote *with* his constiuents, not against them.
There is only one person to thank for Heath Shuler and his failure: Rahm Emanuel!!
I think he’ll vote for it when it comes time. And not just because he’s being mealy mouthed now, but because so far he’s only heard from the nut squads. Things are going to look very, very different in about a month.
We need to create a betting pool. Even if it’s just fairy money.
“it would increase the deficit, doesn’t reduce the overall cost of health care and doesn’t do enough to promote people living healthier lives.”
True, True, and True.
doesn’t do enough to promote people living healthier lives.
I want Shuler to tell us why folks who are struggling every day to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table need to be burdened at this time with his concerns about them living healthier life styles. Sounds like some elitist bullshit to me. I don’t intend to predicate my charity on folks giving up cigarettes, malt liquor, Bud or cheese nachos. What’s wrong with folks like Shuler?
The FreedomWorks’ Dick Armey is retreating.
A guy who made millions thinking paying 4 figures a month in health care premiums is a good deal
SaveFarris: but he’s literate enough to read the poll numbers on this debacle and knows that if he wants to keep his job, he needs to vote *with* his constiuents, not against them.
Keeping his job should not be his main concern, or anywhere near it. What his constituents want is something he should be aware of, bu again, not the main concern.
The purpose of a leader is to lead. To use their judgment to determine what is of best benefit to their constituents (which may not be what the constituents claim they want) and to lead in that direction.
Otherwise, it’s the parent giving in to the child whenever there is a tantrum.
OK El Cid, are you on record for Shuler voting for it?
C’mon Oliver. You watched Shuler try to play QB for the ’skins. Did you really think he’d be anything other than a flaming bag of poop as a Rep?
I’ll be on record saying I think it’s more likely that Shuler will vote for the final legislation (which may no longer be HR3200 by that time, I guess).
Do I get a spread?
At least it’s real arguments and not fantasies about Obama death squads. I’ll give Heath that much.
The tide is turning. As time goes on, an increasing number of people will be willing to admit that they are against the garbage promoted by Obamateur and the Obamateur Administration.
Ooops again! That total extremist, right-wing Conservative media source, U.S. News & World Report, has reported the following in lead:
Poll Finds Voters Against Obamacare, as Trust in Democrats Drops
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/14/poll-finds-voters-against-obamacare-as-trust-in-democrats-drops.html
“The shift in the numbers Rasmussen documents indicates quite clearly that the more the voters learn about Obamacare, the less they like it.”
Bingo.
I would support opposing Heath Shuler even if that means giving the seat to a Republican. So far he has been more conservative than many of the Republicans in the house anyway and I am tired of having a guy who is that much of an asshole have a D behind his name. His seat isn’t that damn special.
Oh and did somebody just quote a Rasmussen poll?
BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Um, yes, a Rasmussen poll. Your point?
Rasmussen polls are notoriously biased in favor of Republicans, and are generally inaccurate. That’s the point.
“Keeping his job should not be his main concern, or anywhere near it. What his constituents want is something he should be aware of, bu again, not the main concern.”
Wrong, a congressman is not a leader. He is there to represent x ammount of the population from his state, be their voice and represent thier views.
The wingers touting polls (the same wingers who “knew” they were all lying about how well Obama is doing) are gonna be really sad when Obama and the real Democrats push through a bill with a public option. Given that every legitimate poll has shown overwhelming support for a public option, it’s gonna be great watching Shuler put his tail between his legs when he realizes he either has to support a plan favored by 60% of the country or whine about how no one in his district needs health reform. Good luck, Heath!
Gorgon: Right. What we need is someone to ignore their constituents and public sentiment,…
If that’s in response to my comment, ignoring constituents isn’t what I said. I said he should be aware of what they claim they want, but not allow himself to be completely directed by children. Y’know, to lead. A politician owes the people they represent a serious consideration of their views, but always tempered with and at times over-ridden by their own judgment as to what is in the best interests of their constituents.
which if you all haven’t noticed, is firmly AGAINST this steaming pile of crap they’re calling a health care bill.
So I hear the vocal minority keep saying. But hard to tell if that’s what’s really going on since the bill that most folks are railing against isn’t what is actually being proposed.
I’d say a better description is folks are firmly against the fantasy the right is claiming the bill actually is, not against what it really is.
“Rasmussen polls are notoriously biased in favor of Republicans, and are generally inaccurate.”
Source?
some guy: an increasing number of people will be willing to admit that they are against the garbage promoted by Obamateur and the Obamateur Administration.
Nope. They’re railing against something that doesn’t exist: the fantasy plan imagined up by the wingnuts.
“Aren’t you against Obama’s plan to set up death panels to kill your Gramdma?” Well, of course. Who wouldn’t be. Except that isn’t what the plan is.
I don’t know what they are against, but it isn’t any plan actually being proposed or considered.
Oh no! It’s the end of the road! We done been beat!
Sean, who has misled you? I wonder: every time a D comes out against Obamacare, like Congressman Shuler did, are you going to call him out as some kind of farce or nutball?
Anyway, U.S. News & World Report — that deviously right-wingnut detestable Conservative source, known for its far right-wing screwball viewpoint as we all know — has realized the following, and they aren’t ashamed to admit it.
Score One for Sarah Palin on the Healthcare Reform Death Panels
http://usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/13/score-one-for-sarah-palin-on-the-healthcare-reform-death-panels.html
Barry Obamateur would have liked this sham of a proposal to already make its way further towards a bill to be passed, but it seems less and less likely that Obamateur’s lunatic sham of a proposal will be accepted by the American people.
Suicisal: Wrong, a congressman is not a leader. He is there to represent x ammount of the population from his state, be their voice and represent thier views.
Which views? The folks in their district who lean left? The folks who lean right? Whichever side is the majority (it’s a red district so stricktly toe the Republican line)? Ignore totally the minority?
And politician has multiple constituencies (left, right, seniors, DINKs, unemployed, etc.). They have to weigh and consider the views from all of them and then make a decision. Some will like it, some won’t. But the politician is supposed to be a leader.
It’s how things were intended originally, BTW. The “founding fathers” in America didn’t trust the general population beyond a certain point. (Electoral College, anyone?)
“Oh no! It’s the end of the road! We done been beat!”
I ain’t seein’ no fat lady singin’ in favor of the Dems either, El Cid. Your point is a non sequitur.
some guy: Score One for Sarah Palin on the Healthcare Reform Death Panels
guy, you support my point for me. There were no “death panels” in the reform proposal. Nothing at all even remotely like them.
So if people are against the plan because of “death panels” and reasons of that ilk, they what they are against isn’t what is actually being proposed.
Now, they might be against what is actually proposed, but that’s very hard to tell. Because it’s not the real proposal that is being held up for their consideration.
“We don’t want Coca-Cola in our vending machines!! They said you’re gonna fill them with Coke and we don’t want that!”
“OK, I get that. And we weren’t planning on doing that. We want to provide you with Pepsi, would you like Pepsi?”
“We don’t want Coke! Putting Coke in our machines is a lunatic plan!”
“OK, got it. We’re proposing Pepsi?”
“Stop trying to force us to take Coke. Coke is Socialism!”
“Uh, actually, it isn’t. It’s just a soft drink. And we’re not talking about doing anything with Coke. We’re proposing Pepsi. What do you think of that idea?”
“WE DON’T WANT COKE!!!!!”
No idea what their opinion of Pepsi is.
Another report, this time from the rabid ultra-Conservative right-wing source:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/72feb2fa-8846-11de-82e4-00144feabdc0.html
“Frank Kratovil and Tom Perriello, who as freshmen congressmen would be expected to back the party leadership, both say proposals for expanding coverage to the uninsured are unacceptable in their current form and should focus more on cost savings.”
Surprise! Both are Dems!
Yep, Obamateurism is really gaining ground with Obamateurcare.
Um, hello? Earth to Sean? Did you read ANY of Palin’s response to Barry Obamateur?
I don’t remember talking to you, so, who cares what you think?
I remember a lot of triumphalism from the GOP on how they resisted the PORKULUS. I think they just crested. We’ll see though. I think they’re just a month or two away from losing yet another giant fight which they thought was their ‘Waterloo’. And there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mike: Rasmussen polls are notoriously biased in favor of Republicans, and are generally inaccurate.
some guy: Source?
Well, one analysis of different polling groups shows pollsters don’t think much of Rasmussen’s results.
Is there the default assumption by this liberal blog’s right wing commentators that all comments have to somehow meet their approval, or be directed to them?
Sean, after Obamateur responded to Palin, she replied to his response. Had you already looked it up her second response on her facebook page? If not, I suggest you go there are read it before spouting off.
should have read, “go there *and* read it.”
some guy: Did you read ANY of Palin’s response to Barry Obamateur?
You mean perhaps the part where she said “the provision in the pending health care bill that authorizes end-of-life consultations” is “disturbing”?
Where she deliberately lied about the section by claiming “The “end-of-life” consultations authorized in Section 1233 of HR 3200 were an obvious and heavy handed attempt at pressuring people to reduce the financial burden on the system by minimizing their own care. Worst still, it actually provided a financial incentive to doctors to initiate these consultations.”?
Yeah, she’s dialed back on referring to “death panels” in the last couple of days but, when responding to the plan, that is what she said was going to happen.
So what’s your point? You trying to claim she didn’t?
There were no “death panels” in the reform proposal. Nothing at all even remotely like them.
Not in the Senate anyway. In the House, it’s a different story.
And before you start crowing that the legislation in question was being mis-represented by Palin, then why did they take it out unless there was some truth in what she was saying?
Old people should make sure and only work with doctors and medical staff who volunteer to work with them on end of life concerns for free, or the old and sick jerks should pay out of pocket.
Why? Because mentally ill Republicans think that’s a death panel.
I remember a lot of triumphalism from the GOP on how they resisted the PORKULUS
Can’t.
Imagine.
Why.
I’m pretty sure Savezfarris thought that was a response.
Clearly I agree that the stimulus should have been much, much larger and less focused on tax cuts and more on jobs.
“why did they take it out unless there was some truth in what she was saying?”
Cid, answer the question. Because nobody’s ever deliberately misinterpreted something for cheap political gain. Certainly not underqualified demagogues who tend to appeal to emotions rather than actually address the issues at hand. And surely nobody but the most willfully ignorant of pinheads would entertain such a notion.
SaveFarris: Not in the Senate anyway. In the House, it’s a different story.
WTF are you talkin’ about, boy?
There was nothing, ever, that in any way even suggested the kind of “death panels” that Palin is claiming would be set up to watch her kid die. From either house.
You’re just blantantly bullshitting.
And before you start crowing that the legislation in question was being mis-represented by Palin, then why did they take it out unless there was some truth in what she was saying?
Do you ever read your own links? It says:
The section has been removed because the Democrats are (typically) cowards who would rather let blatant liars mislead folks than put up a fight.
And if you think it’s removal is any sort of proof at all that Palin’s comments were anything other than bald, intentional lies then you simply showing how incapable you are of thought.
Italics fixed, to be clear as to who said what.
________________________________________________
SaveFarris: Not in the Senate anyway. In the House, it’s a different story.
WTF are you talkin’ about, boy?
There was nothing, ever, that in any way even suggested the kind of “death panels” that Palin is claiming would be set up to watch her kid die. From either house.
You’re just blatantly bullshitting.
And before you start crowing that the legislation in question was being mis-represented by Palin, then why did they take it out unless there was some truth in what she was saying?
Do you ever read your own links? It says:
What question? No question was asked. Address my post!
In case it wasn’t obvious, and maybe it wasn’t, the mention of the stimulus battle wasn’t so much there as to prompt righties to spout various resentments against Obamanomics (I certainly have my own disagreements, certainly about the tepidness and the favoritism of big business approaches, but whatever), but to mention that in the leadup to the stimulus vote, as the budget, the week or two before the legislation was passed there were various talk radio and right wing populist freakouts, loud noises were made, right wing populists declared themselves in broad rebellion, that the public all supported their cause, and Obama and the libs would now be taught a giant lesson by the no-longer-sleeping giant.
And that’s not what happened. The legislation, whether one thinks the content was wonderful, mediocre, or horrific and murderous, was passed. And the right moved on to the next great struggle and got louder and dumber each time.
I think the rightist moment on health care peaked last week and didn’t really help them a great deal. I think Obama and the Democrats haven’t even yet begun pushing for health care reform legislation to pass.
And though I’m not magic and I know Democratic Congresses can screw up a victory if they’re handed the football while they’re standing on the goal line if a Republican or lobbyist asks them to take a step back, I think this health care reform will pass, nevermind all the declarations that “I’M AS MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT MAKING SENSE ANYMORE!!!”
A lot of conservatives and Republicans are making strange and bizarrely triumphalist claims again — perhaps just overexcited that they seem to have any impact whatsoever on the national agenda — and I just don’t think it’s justified and I don’t think they’re going to win this fight.
In 1996, while running for the presidency, Bob Dole bragged that he was one of 12 House members who voted against creating Medicare in 1965. “I was there, fighting the fight, voting against Medicare . . . because we knew it wouldn’t work in 1965.”
Conservatives and insurance companies in Switzerland were against health care reform too. At least in Switzerland they now admit they were mistaken.
More on the way. But first, this breaking news from the Associated Press — you know, that vicious hard right-wing rabidly Conservative excuse for news.
White House appears ready to drop ‘public option’
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090816/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_overhaul
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama’s administration signaled on Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run health insurance as part of his ambitious health care proposal.
Oops again.
So let’s see now… is it time to abandon Senator Conrad, Democratic Senator from N.D.? Hmm.
Sen. Conrad: Public option a ‘wasted effort’
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/sen.-conrad-public-option-a-wasted-effort-2009-08-16.html
A public health insurance option took more hits Sunday as [Democrat] Sen. Kent Conrad described its pursuit as a “wasted effort” and an administration official said it is not an “essential” part of reform.
Conrad (D-N.D.), who supports setting up health insurance co-operatives with government seed money to compete with private insurers, described the public option as all but a lost cause…
“To continue to chase that rabbit is, I think, a wasted effort,” Conrad said.
Looks more and more like the ‘public option’ will bite the dust.
Gosh, I thought this was such a great proposal! Dang it.
Translated some guy: Our lies and distortions cause something to be dropped, so clearly it wasn’t a good thing.
wingnut honesty, ladies and gents.
o no we iz defeated just like we wuz beat on tha stimulus
You liberals are the problem with this country. Shuler is one of the view Democrats who has this right! This country needs to reform parts of health care but not the entire thing. The elderly have paid their dues. Rationing is a certainty under this reform. We cannot keep flipping the bill for illegals and unmotivated people in our society. And as for the the good people who work hard and try to life and eat right who catch a bad break, those are the ones we need to help and can help. Shuler is also right on proper eating habits. I work with many people who abuse their bodies and it is ridiculous that our taxes pay for it. It’s not elitist to promote good health, especially when people are trying to get handouts from you.