GOP Rep. Paul Broun: Dems To Use Swine Flu To Take Over Country
Yeah, I dunno why we can’t have a rational dialogue with Republicans when they push theories like this. Its perfectly normal.
Jesus.
51 Responses to “GOP Rep. Paul Broun: Dems To Use Swine Flu To Take Over Country”
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Can Broun prove that any Dems have a connection to this, like Rumsfeld’s connection to the Avian Flu scare?
I bet Paul Broun listens to Jeff Rense
OLIVER. YOU DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE.
(About the secret Swine Flu plan.)
LIBERAL COWARD.
Yeah well, there’s this:
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/08/12/another-good-conservative-alternative-to-obamacare/
And this:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/24/gop-senator-pushes-alternative-government-funded-voucher-health-care/
Speaking of Chuck Grassley, there’s also this:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-health29-2009jul29,0,4731393.story
And there is also this:
http://usconservatives.about.com/od/healthcarereform2009/ht/How_to_Fix_Health_Care.htm
And this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124277551107536875.html
Shall I go on? Or are you content to cherry pick cartoon character shit and claim it’s the mainstream?
Jay,
Just off the the top of my head, the Grassley article just states he is a “centrist” and totally misses the point of his Death Panel scare tactics. Hardly Cherry Picking. Just face the fact that you don’t really mind people on the right calling Obama a marxist and saying the govment is going to kill granny or that a “socialist elite is out to take over and that ordinary citizens should realize the Swine Flu is a liberal plot to destroy them. I refuse to believe that you are so dense to not realize the ridiculousness of his statements but rather you have to score some political point. If Republican’s truly had better ideas, they would SPEAK about them and fight for them in Congress. Of course, who could pass up the delightful dillusional discourse option. Its must easier to yell and act crazy.
Voucher health care? Seriously?
Ok, Jay, why haven’t any of these “alternatives” gotten any traction?
Because every one is so preoccupied with “death panels” maybe?
Who’s fucking fault is that?
Setting aside for the moment that that link is 2 months old, now I know why DeMint’s alternative plan didn’t go anywhere.
Because it is a carbon copy of John McCain’s “plan” and just as stupid and ineffective.
Man, they’ll let anybody be in the House, won’t they?
Because every one is so preoccupied with “death panels” maybe? Who’s fucking fault is that?
Obama’s. Obama’s alone.
Just face the fact that you don’t really mind people on the right calling Obama a marxist and saying the govment is going to kill granny or that a “socialist elite is out to take over and that ordinary citizens should realize the Swine Flu is a liberal plot to destroy them
Actually, I do mind. The problem is, I can’t spend every waking moment denouncing it so that some people I don’t even know might think I don’t condone or believe such nonsense.
And that’s the problem. I am not obsessed with stuff about “death panels.” YOU guys are. And it’s a perfect political ploy in my view. Blow out of proportion the stupid things some people are bringing up to get a bill — that’s a piece of crap even without those things — passed and signed.
Speaking of Chuck Grassley, there’s also this:
Oh, you mean the guy claiming there are death panels. Yep, he’s rational.
And this:
Oh, you mean the GOP health care plan that was slapped down as ludicrous within 24 hours. Got it.
Obama’s. Obama’s alone.
Bullshit. A big fat steaming turd of a lie.
Actually, I do mind. The problem is, I can’t spend every waking moment denouncing it so that some people I don’t even know might think I don’t condone or believe such nonsense.
Just once would be fine, Jay. Clearly and unequivocally. Loudly so everyone can hear you. Sell it to the cheap seats.
August, what does that MM article prove? Ok, so the tax credit amount proposed is too low. Gee. A simple solution would be to…oh I don’t know….ummm…..INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX CREDIT.
I know that for somebody like yourself who has very limited cognitive skills, making CHANGES to a bill might seem like something out of reach, but it’s not that big a deal really.
Run along little boy. Please.
Duros, I’m not the one criss-crossing the country claiming that my health care plan will pay for itself by slashing Medicare funding.
If you can explain how you’re going to cut spending and increase services (short of repealing the law of supply and demand), I’m all ears. But don’t get outraged when people put 2 + 2 together.
Jay,
Ok, then lets focus on the messaging. I think the Death Panel stuff is crazy talk and so do you. Why is it being repeated over and over on the right side of the aisle? Don’t you think its a perfect political ploy to misinform and gin up fear? I’ll admit that Democrats will talk and address this insane dribble if it helps them politically in the long run. I also kinda worry that people are EASILY misinformed and my faith in America’s intellectual curiosity is next to nil. Just look historically at the success crazyness has done in politics. Drug scares and linking them to black violence in the 1900′s, Prohibition etc…. The main problem with ignoring people(and not just some) talking about Death Panels and Socialist takeovers is more people start to believe the absurd and profane. 2/3 of Americans don’t know what the Food and Drug Admin does, Half of Americans can’t name thier Congressmen or that they have two. Color me suspicious.
So you put 2 and 2 together and you get Dr. Mengle death panels? That’s messed up.
And I’ll believe Mickey Kaus when he can prove that he doesn’t blow goats.
and produces a long-form birth certificate.
Half of Americans can’t name thier Congressmen or that they have two.
Two Senators, right?
46% of North Carolina republicans don’t believe Hawaii is a state, and 64% of all statistics are made up.
The only reason GOP politicians are still harping on the death panel thing is to muddy the waters. They know goddamn well it’s bullshit, but they also know their slobbering idiot constituents believe it as the truth, so the longer they can keep the dumbshits screaming about something that doesn’t exist, is another day Obama has to defend these asinine claims.
Only the dumbest fucking people alive buy into this moronic notion that ‘teh govts is gonna kill my granny, oh noez’
Then again, the wingnuts cashed in their sane chips a long time ago.
Jay’s Great Link plans,
Link 1 Summary:
a. More high deductible plans
b. give tax benefits for individuals = to employer benefits
c. deregulate the industry, and strip the ability of states to regulate the health industry
d. more deregulation.
e. tort reform
f. put price tags on things
g. fuck up Medicare
h. encourage medical charity.
Link 2:
a. vouchers? so people who can’t affrod health care still can’t, and people who can get free money.
b. that’s it?
Link 3:
Giant coops and trusts that would limit choice.
Link 4:
a. Universal health care is bad, everyone should just realize this.
b. ???. Listen to people so legislators can find out that high premiums, lack of coverage and costly medications suck. No shit.
c. Although probably for their profits, address industry concerns so they won’t nee to find loopholes.
d. tort reform.
e. streamline competition, somehow, probably by taking away State’s ability to regulate.
f. Encourage competition between pharmaceutical companies, somehow.
g. destroy employer provided insurance and replace with whatever individuals can find.
h. prevent collusion and unfair business practices by somehow enforcing laws that already exist.
i. Fix medicare somehow, by essentially just making it more complex and inefficient.
Link 5:
a. Vouchers again.
b. destroy employer based health care system
c. mandatory participation
d. moonbeams.
Great plans.
Yeah, this is about what I expected. I knew I was wasting my time.
According to the link that August so kindly provided,
…in its 2008 Employer Health Benefits Summary of Findings, the Kaiser Family Foundation estimated, “In 2008, the average annual premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance are $4,704 for single coverage and $12,680 for family coverage, up about 5% from the 2007 average premiums.”
In other words, the Republican plan will leave my family holding a $7000+ bill for health insurance. But wait! We won’t even be eligible for private insurance, because all three of my kids have pre-existing conditions.
Gee, sounds like a plan to me, Jay.
Yeah, I totally made Broun make his accusation. The left wing mind control is strong.
Fix medicare somehow, by essentially just making it more complex and inefficient.
oooh, I know how you do that. Make it so complicated that old people just give up and die in their homes. Kinda like Medicare Part D.
YOU guys are.
Yes, we totally made Sarah Palin say it, Chuck Grassley repeat it, and have the MSM cover it like it makes sense. Our bad.
Is Oliver cherry picking? I’d say conservativetopia is one big orchard. That VP candidate who generated so much enthusiasm with her base, herself, spoke of “death panels” and “downright evil”.
I say Jay cherry picks his sources. Most of these sources suggest that we tweak a few things, but basically TRUST that health insurance companies with less government restrictions will resolve the health care crisis.
Trust: A combination of firms or corporations for the purpose of reducing competition and controlling prices throughout a business or an industry.
How does lessening government restriction and oversight of a highly consolidated industry, (which by all appearances is not competing in good faith or delivering competitive products) reduce consumer costs?
Regarding the proposals in Jay’s links:
1) I actually like HSAs. I have one. While some opponents of the current proposed legislation claim HSAs would be destroyed, the “minimum acceptable coverage” in the bill sounds to me a lot like an HSA. I may be wrong about that.
2) Nobody says that a tax credit for buying your own health insurance has to cover the total cost. As Jay said, if $5,000 for a family isn’t enough, what about $6,000? $7,000? What number is staisfactory?
3) The sell-across-state-lines proposals sound interesting, but there must be some drawbacks. What are they?
I knew I was wasting my time.
You’ve certainly wasted mine, you intellectual coward.
basically TRUST that health insurance companies with less government restrictions will resolve the health care crisis.
Well, sheeeit, why didn’t you say so? What could possibly go wrong with that idea?
Duros,
Senators of course:) I read somewhere that one reason people can be so dense is that while they have huge amounts of information at thier disposal, they are not actually consuming and assimiilating the information. Goes back to that whole “critical thinking” doohickey.
Quit biatching about debate when Pelosi won’t even allow republican ammendments on the floor.
Quit biatching about debate when Pelosi won’t even allow republican ammendments on the floor.
Just a little friendly political payback for getting shut out of the process for 6 years, remember? They shut out the Dems from hearings and meetings, they would hold the floor open extra long, they would insert provisions into bills at 3AM, etc etc.
When the GOP does it to Dems, it’s ok.
But when they get a little mud thrown back at them, they scream and cry like girls.
Jay: “Why won’t you debate this?”
Everyone: “Here’s a point by point refutation of every stupid think you just said.”
Jay: “Yeah, this is about what I expected. I knew I was wasting my time.”
Everyone: “Ditto.”
“The only reason GOP politicians are still harping on the death panel thing is to muddy the waters.”
Plus, it’s code word for the abortion debate. A large percentage of fear radio call ins end up talking about abortion. That’s the glue that keeps them all a unified and constipated family. Enter Trig.
Does Rumsfeld still own tamiflu stocks? If he does, he’ll become a democrat in no time.
Apparently, both Limbaugh and Beck have agreed with Palin. The conservatives most popular politician and their two most popular pundits, agree with an opinion that’s unsubstantiated. Modern conservatism is an orchard.
AP, I gotta disagree. Jay posted links to GOP proposals that are at least rational suggestions and at most, possible additions or alternatives to proposed reforms.
The response to his links has not risen to the level of actual discussion.
The House bill’s “Health Care Insurance Market” versus the Heritage Foundation’s “Interstate Purchasing”–compare and contrast. (If you need middle ground, refer to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation website.)
Or holler about the teabaggers. Your choice.
So has Sean Hannibal.
It’s been said that malpractice litigation accounts for 0.6 percent of US health care costs, but that defensive medicine (out of fear of malpractice lawsuits) raises costs 9 percent.
It’s also been said that the health insurance industry saw profits increase 400 percent between 2000 and 2007. And apparently medical malpractice insurance rates for American doctors are astronomical.
“They’re trying to develop an environment where they can take over” – Paul Broun
It sounds like the insurance industry trust already has. FUD works!
“3) The sell-across-state-lines proposals sound interesting, but there must be some drawbacks. What are they?”
You will get some state setup with lax insurance industry friendly regulation that will make it impossible to sue or appeal claims and they will dominate the market, while people have less coverage than they do now. Think of why credit cards are all based in Delaware or South Dakota and you’ll see why cross-border insurance is dangerous.
The folks at the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation have some pretty interesting papers on those problems, EL. Interestingly enough, the solution involves something conservatives hate: the Commerce Clause.
At least one of the papers on their website suggests that any legislation to allow Interstate Purchasing should invoke the commerce clause to allow the feds to regulate insurance products sold across state lines.
Once you do that, the whole arrangement becomes quite close to what the House bill calls an “exchange.”
Dang QIB and EL, both excellent posts. So many facts and so much truth I need an aspirin.
Here’s a totally random idea that came to me. I haven’t really thought it through and it’s probably impractical.
Suppose health insurance carried some sort of rating system. A cluster of ratings could indicate whether a given health insurance plan has high average out of pocket, whether it covers treatments likely to be needed by children or elderly, high or low co-pays, etc.
QiB,
My objection to the tax credit model is that it will more than likely drive employer-based insurance out of business. Once you get rid of the tax incentive for employers to provide insurance many will start dropping the benefit. Especially if younger, healthier workers opt out of the employer plan.
No tax break will be large enough to cover private insurance for my family if we can’t even get a quote on a policy due to my kids and my pre-existing conditions.
Also, I like invoking the Commerce Clause if we allow policies to cross state lines. But I have very little faith that such regulation will actually make it into law. So again, you will have insurers shopping around for the friendliest state in which to do business – gaining not just protection from lawsuits, but also avoiding mandatory coverage laws. Massachusetts, for example, has mandatory coverage of plastic surgery for children born with cleft palates. Kentucky does not.
IF insurance companies could be run SOLEY as non-profits (as BC/BS once were), and IF they could be sufficiently regulated at the federal level, we might be able to get away without single payer. But I think there are plenty of models of mixed single payer + private insurance out there that work a hell of a lot better than what we have now.
GOP = lunatic asylum
Jay = the head of the ward, trying to clean the feces off the padded walls
Just a little friendly political payback for getting shut out of the process for 6 years, remember?
Remember when Sensenbrenner turned off the mics and the lights, took his gavel and left while a Democrat was making his opening remarks?
Good times.
Sis Quaker,
The articles I was reading over at the RWJ Foundation say there’s a federal law on the books now that gives states the exclusive right to regulate insurance sold within their borders. Before interstate purchasing could be implemented, Congress would have to deal with that. If they don’t, any law that takes away the authority of state insurance commissions would be ripe for challenge.
Invoking the Commerce Clause is one way they could get it done.
As for your concerns about the tax-credit model, I see what you’re up against. I can be convinced that divorcing health coverage from employment is doable. Actually, that might be the only long-term goal both sides agree on. The hitch is making sure folks (like you) can still find affordable insurance somewhere.
Ok, so the tax credit amount proposed is too low. Gee. A simple solution would be to…oh I don’t know….ummm…..INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF THE TAX CREDIT.
Well, it is clear you aren’t an economist. Just as the mortgage interest tax credit has completely distorted the price of houses relative to rental property, this would have the perverse incentive of making already overpriced private medical insurance more expensive for employers. It’s a market distortion just as is any tax-based buying incentive, and it is one sure to add 50 pages to the already overwhelming tax code.
Jay, do me a favor, don’t try to make my job as an employer any more difficult by promoting anti-business legislation in support of health insurance lobbyists.
Swine flu is a farce, more people die at beaches each day than by swine flu in a month.
It’s absurd that we are even making a vaccine for it.
I can be convinced that divorcing health coverage from employment is doable.
Oh, so can I … but it involves a single-payer system.
[...] certainly plenty of crazy (or just plain stupid) joining in the discussion. Eugene Robinson points out that: Red-faced [...]