Let’s keep pretending it away.
Breaking News
Oprah Quitting TV Show In 2011
Opposition To Obama/Health Care Reform Racist: Proof
August 12th, 2009
150 Comments
Oliver Willis
Like Kryptonite To Stupid
-
-
Breaking News
- Tila Tequila Live Streaming Mental Meltdown
- 31 Die In Chinese Mine Blast In Heilongjiang Province, 82 Trapped
- Victoria Justice Stars In New Nickeloden Show “Victorious”
- CERN’s Large Hadron Collider Back Up And Running
- Megan Fox Alive For Transformers 3
- Maryna Linchuk @ 2009 Victoria’s Secret Fashion Show
- Madison Parker Works Out
- Sony Reveals Lame Attempt To Fight iTunes
- Brian Thomas: UK Man Gets Away With Killing Wife In His Sleep
- Olivia Wilde @ US Weekly Hot Hollywood 2009 Party
Live News
Kenneth Gladney, meet Ralph Ellison.
I smelled the winds of racist ignorance swooping down after Sarah Palin spoke near my home in Ohio in October 2008. Hadn’t heard the word ni**er called out in my vicinity in thirty years until a car filled with people and splattered with McCain/ Palin stickers did a drive by call out. The media didn’t pick it up too much, but Ohio was wild and frightening. I understand Rep. Scott’s unease, sadness and disgust.
I’d respect these people if even 3/10 actually knew what the hell health care reform was all about. But they have again and again proved themselves ignorant, purposely close minded, deaf to facts, in the pocket of insurance company lobbyist or just out and out racist. It sickens me that discourse in this country is almost dead.
We should’ve known a black president would bring racists out of the woodwork, but as I’ve said it’s the inchoate racism that’s the most dangerous, ie. the peeps who say “I want my country back,” but don’t want to/can’t admit their white supremacist perspective. If you have a frustrated fool who’s seen the gummint go trillions in the hole, you’ve got a recruit for naive reaction; if you’ve got a disgruntled fool unwilling to face WHY he’s disgruntled, you’ve got putty in your hands. Or in the hands of the HMOs, Big Pharma, or the party-over-country Republicans.
Just more Lefty Astroturfing. It’s not working and Democratics are getting desperate.
Yes, the unbiased report of a Free Republic poster who probably thinks all blacks look alike. Great proof.
Thanks Farris–as usual you’ve wrapped it all up into totally asinine perspective. Keep on being you.
SaveFarris, I know you’re smarter than that. I refuse to believe you’re that fucking stupid.
Gee, maybe he just SAID he was a Dem supporter but he’s actually a rebpub plant pretending to be a dem plant pretending to be a wingnut in order to discredit the repubs (as if they need further discrediting!)…
… anywyay, see, we all can play this game! Who noez how deep this goez!
I see. So ALL opposition to Obama’s health care plan is racist.
Take note everybody: If you’re opposed to ANYTHING President Obama supports, it’s because you’re racist.
The asshat left has spoken.
Except these town hall confrontations have been going on for over a month now (and the tea party pheonomenon since February). Yet it was only AFTER Pelosi made her swastika crack that all this racist and Nazi “evidence” started showing up.
How con-VIEN-ient…
Cons love racists. Look at Sean Hannity having puff piece interviews with Dog the BOunty Hunter, Don Imus and Mark Fuhrman
“So ALL opposition to Obama’s health care plan is racist.”
Hm, no. “All the”?? where does he say all opposition is racist? The problem is this shit is drowning out ANY sort of dialogue. What are the right’s substantive criticisms? Who the hell knows? All you can hear is Obama is a terrist! Obama is the second coming of Ivan Lenin in hot pants! Obama has AIDS snot blowing out of his nostrils!! Obammy’s gonna miscegenate my chillun’!
If the right could chill out this crapola, perhaps they could have themselves heard, too! But I take it from the deafening silence of their leadership that they have nothing substantive to say.
So the criticism now turns to what the Repubs are harnessing with the pitchfork and torch crowd, rather than what the repubs might want to offer as criticism. Sow the wind, reap the racist criticism.
Jay-to-English translation:
I see.
Translation: Actually, I don’t see. I shall pretend that I do so that I may say whatever I like.
So ALL opposition to Obama’s health care plan is racist.
Translation: The original statement is somewhat defensible. I must distort it.
Take note everybody: If you’re opposed to ANYTHING President Obama supports, it’s because you’re racist.
Translation: Oh, that felt good. I shall do it some more. Now I shall call everyone here a name.
The asshat left has spoken.
What are the right’s substantive criticisms?
If you were paying attention, you’d know.
Oh, and all this demonization of the protestors? It’s not working. Nice going, Barack.
Oh, and all this demonization of the protestors? It’s not working. Nice going, Barack.
You really ought to look at the actual poll data and not just articles that tell you what you want to hear, Farris.
BTW — Shouting people down at public forums and stifling true debate is not protest, it’s thuggery. And yes, I feel the same way when liberals behave the same way.
Oliver Willis said it right here:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/12/opposition-to-obamahealth-care-reform-racist-proof/
You’re welcome.
I knew Obama would bring cooks like this out, especially after working in Louisiana the past few months, some people down there are pretty backwards but most are pretty decent people.
I am actually shocked someone hasn’t taken a shot at him yet I figured someone would with him or Hillary just to say “I killed the first black||woman president”.
But if you think that racism is what is fueling the tea parties or oposition to a rapid expansion of government, you are just fooling yourself, Oliver.
All I see is as title of a blog entry that says:
Opposition To Obama/Health Care Reform Racist: Proof
Somebody show me where there is a qualifier in there? If he would have written, “Some people opposed to Obama/Health Care Reform are racist and there is proof” then you’d have a point.
I guess I didn’t see the invisible PHP/HTML/CSS that had such qualifiers in there.
And I stand by my statement with regard to racism. There have been bloggers, pundits and even politicians who have said that opposition to any major policy proposal, appointment or piece of legislation that President Obama has supported was merely because of racism. The Google doesn’t lie.
I mean for crying out loud, having Obama depicted as The Joker has been called racist along with “mean spirited and dangerous.” It’s reached levels of absurdity that I could not even imagine and we’re only 8 months into at least a four year Presidency!
So let me ask a question: What do a few redneck racists mean to the overall debate over the issue of health care reform?
And gumby that fact that you wrote what you did, shows that you’re all caught up in the crap and not the substance. There have been a number of submitted health reform proposals offered by several Republicans (contrary to the claims of the left). Many people at these town hall meetings are asking substantive, but tough questions about the details of a bill (contrary to the claims of the left) that will cost trillions and trillions of dollars.
Many people in this country are fed up. First it was TARP, then bailouts, then more bailouts, the stimulus pork package and now a massive and very expensive health care bill, the contents of which remain a mystery to many of its supporters. So people finally started to speak out. And what was the reaction? Instead of addressing those concerns, liberals and Democrats along with the DNC decided to label protestors “mobs.” They called these legitimate protests nothing but “astroturf” and you had the Speaker of the House, the woman that is third in line to the Presidency saying all of these protesters were a bunch of fakes simply because they weren’t dressed like frigging slobs.
“This shit” isn’t drowning out the dialogue. The left’s reaction to such things is drowning it out because they’re attempting to make it seem mainstream. “OMG!! Some person had a swastika sign!” “OMG! Some people said some racist things!” The left has been taking these little small examples here and there and attempting to make those people the majority of the opposition when they are in fact an extremely small minority.
So my original comments up there are nothing more than reflection of what the left and Democrats have done since this Presidency began. What the left is doing now is no different than what they were doing during the tea parties. Were valid concerns addressed? Nope. The protesters were “tea-baggers”, “racists”, “fake” and “astorturf.” See a pattern?
You guys shouldn’t get your panties in a wad now simply because I did basically what you guys have been doing on a daily basis.
OMG! Some people said some racist things!” The left has been taking these little small examples here and there and attempting to make those people the majority of the opposition when they are in fact an extremely small minority.
Which explains why 1/4 of republicans think Obama was born outside the USA?
Oh no, I’ve been called a racist again!!! How will I ever overcome this vicious and totally original attack!?!!!!?!
“Oh no, I’ve been called a racist again!!! How will I ever overcome this vicious and totally original attack!?!!!!?!”
Not sure you WANT to overcome it. Could be seen as a compliment in some circles.
‘I see. So ALL opposition to Obama’s health care plan is racist.’
No; but what do you say about the obvious racism on display in the emails the Congressman received?
‘The protesters were “tea-baggers”, “racists”, “fake” and “astorturf.” See a pattern?’
Yah, a disturbing one which the Right refuses to acknowledge and people like you continue to downplay, even as it grows.
How much of this bullshit is acceptable to you?
Many people in this country are fed up. First it was TARP, then bailouts, then more bailouts, the stimulus pork package and now a massive and very expensive health care bill, the contents of which remain a mystery to many of its supporters
Ah, the same people who sat back for 8 years and didnt say a fucking word about billions being wasted in Iraq, or massive spending pork laden bills when Tom Delay was in Congress, or huge tax cuts when the GOP was in power. Not a fucking word. They were too busy trying to paint anyone who spoke up against Iraq as ‘unamerican’ and ‘appeasers’ and ‘traitors’
Now, they find themselves SO outraged that Obama has to clean up the mess left by the GOP.
I love the selective wingnut amnesia.
I know you’re smarter than that. I refuse to believe you’re that fucking stupid.
You’re clearly in the minority.
“How much of this bullshit is acceptable to you?”
I’d like to second that question.
BTW, this is why we call them “astroturfers”
“Campaigns & Elections magazine defines astroturf as a ‘grassroots program that involves the instant manufacturing of public support for a point of view in which either uninformed activists are recruited or means of deception are used to recruit them.’”
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Astroturf
The means of deception includes:
- telling old people that the president plans to kill them
- telling people they won’t be able to choose their doctors…
- telling people that a universal system would encourage terrorist attacks
- telling people that a universal system would make this country a communist nation
Here are some of the people leading the astroturfers:
“CPR is the group headed by controversial former hospitals exec Rick Scott that’s spending millions on ads attacking reform in all sorts of lurid ways, a campaign that’s being handled by the same P.R. mavens behind the Swift Boat Vets.”
“Similarly, America’s Health Insurance Plans, or AHIP, the insurance industry group, has stationed employees in 30 states to track local town hall events.”
http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/health-care/anti-reform-group-takes-credit-for-helping-gin-up-town-hall-rallies/
I love the fact that moonbats think all Republicans agree with everything a Republican president does.
I don’t know a single Republican that agreed with Bush bailing out mega corporations….
Yeah, us righties definately need to come up with a cute little nickname for the left wing mobs.
“Yeah, us righties definately need to come up with a cute little nickname for the left wing mobs.”
Uh huh, and then you can learn how to spell too!
“Yeah, us righties definately need to come up with a cute little nickname for the left wing mobs.”
I’m partial to “adults with jobs.”
I’m thinking the Moocher Brigade: Give us our healthcare!
“I’m partial to “adults with jobs.”
Ahahahah surely you’re not serious.
You mean moochers like US soldiers and Americans over the age of 65?
Please, tell us how you’re going to win America over by stripping the elderly of their Medicare and Social Security, and how soldiers injured in Iraq or Afghanistan are free-loaders.
Seriously, answer a direct question for once in your sorry life.
“surely you’re not serious”
I’ve never been into protesting myself. And if I was, I’d never be able to do it since I work full-time. Lots of wing-nuts out there seem to have the luxury of being unemployed.
I guarantee most of the uninsured are Democratic voters, there Jaim…I know, I’m going out on a huge limb there…..Damned reality bites.
You obviously got your degree at the Dennis school of providing evidence.
Oh, how cute. The child Gabriel speaks once again, showing his superior wit and dazzling mental acuity that he loves to brag about.
Every time you post here, little boy, you reveal how young and inexperienced, and invariably full of shit you really are.
”
You obviously got your degree at the Dennis school of providing evidence.”
Just look at the vote totals in 2008 campaign for those making under $15,000 per year, and under $30,000 per year….Obama won those overwhelmingly, and those are the people who are without health insurance…..Facts are stubborn things….
“Every time you post here, little boy, you reveal how young and inexperienced, and invariably full of shit you really are.”
You need to come with something stronger than that, moonbat.
Burn the left has just as much responsibility as the GOP.
The GOP has controlled congress for about 10 years out of the last 50. And I am fairly sure when the GOP was passing pork in congress they were getting DNC votes.
Take the blinders off, both sides only care about what they can get for thier votes – to hell with the people.
“OMG! Some people said some racist things!” The left has been taking these little small examples here and there and attempting to make those people the majority of the opposition when they are in fact an extremely small minority.”
Well, this is the vein the right is tapping. Let’s call a spade a… (sorry ’bout that). Anyway, it is a deliberate repub tactic to get these morons riled up, to stoke the hate. The results? Swastikas, death threats, Glenn Beck labeling health care reform as “reparations”. The right is deliberately harnessing this poison for its own ends. And you want to say, “golly, it’s just folks speaking their minds, the odd individual gets carried away?” Come on.
Repubs are responsible for stoking this ugliness. For creating this mayhem, and doing nothing to denounce it. It is despicable, disgraceful, dishonorable and weak.
You need to come with something stronger than that, moonbat.
Awww, wassa matter, honey? Did I hit a nerve with you about how young and dumb you are? Too bad, little boy, too bad for you. You’ll mature as time progresses and hopefully you’ll lose that petulant entitled attitude you carry.
Don’t try and match wits with the adults, kid. You only look that much more out of your league.
Glenn Beck isn’t a goddamn Republican.
Democrats control the entire government, if you’re not happy with how things are going, blame them. There’s no excuses…Blaming Republicans is a cop out.
This childish game of calling everyone who disagrees with you racist is a diversion. Grow up.
“moochers”
Moochers? Doesn’t the fact we all get to mooch effectively cancel out the moochiness of it? If I pay premiums and taxes, and get benefits too, how am I mooching?
And if an insurance company collects premiums from me for years then decides to deny me coverage when the time comes, what’s that called?
“Don’t try and match wits with the adults, kid. You only look that much more out of your league.”
I’m awful hurt by these lame insults from someone who’s obviously swimming in the shallow end of the kiddy pool.
If I had to guess, you’re probably one of the uninsured Moocher Brigade.
“This childish game of calling everyone who disagrees with you racist is a diversion. Grow up.”
Who exactly was called a racist in this post? The point was — what was a proposal to reform healthcare insurance has now become racially charged, thanks to the irrational hysteria stoked by opponents (not repubs? Oh, thank GOD for their heroic efforts at distancing themselves from it!). Dennis and (I assume) you want to think that this is somehow springing up unbidden, or is incited by dem plants to make repubs look bad. Or something.
Labelling people is pointless, but being clear on the particular well of poison that is being drawn from is actually pretty important.
I am employed, little boy Gabe, since I was 17. I have insurance through my job. Shit, today I had to get a fucking crown and a cavity, and thanks to my dental plan it only cost me $700 rather than $1675
And let me guess, your mommy still pays for yours since you don’t work?
I know you collectivists don’t grasp the concept that individuals are responsible for their own actions…..In this tradition of collectivsts blaming media personalities for what other people say I do, I’m going to blame Keith Olbermann for the general insanity and paranoia of the left wing base.
“I am employed”
I’m sure you are valuable contributor to the McDonalds team.
If I had to guess, you’re probably one of the uninsured Moocher Brigade.
only some entitled little chump who grew up getting his life handed to him would use this kind of term to describe people who don’t have insurance. You just don’t give a shit about the less fortunate do you, or mabye like Rush Limpballs, you hate poor people and think it’s their fault for them being poor.
Wow, such empathy and compassion. Tell you what, child, make a huge sign that expresses that same sentiment, and go to a townhall meeting about healthcare and hold it really high for the TV cameras to see. ‘Moochers Get out of USA”
That will win you lots of converts.
Ah, the sympathy card…Obviously it’s evil American societies fault for the failings of certain people. Let me know how that War on Poverty works out for ya….
That’s a great idea for a sign. I’ll take that into consideration.
So you do still live with Mommy then Gabe?
That’s a great idea for a sign. I’ll take that into consideration.
Please do. I’d love to see you standing next to the hillbilly with his “Wherez the birf sirtifikat, Obama” sign.
The face of the modern GOP.
And Gabe, if you lost your job, and your insurance, and got sick…. then what? Crawl off to die in a pool of self loathing, muttering “it’s all my fault I got sick, it never would have happened to John Galt, I deserve to suffer and die”?
Look, EVERY OTHER DEVELOPED NATION has government health care or health care insurance. These nations are successful capitalist economies, based on the premise of individual effort and reward. None are socialist collectives. What we are, in contrast, is the world’s richest third world nation.
The boy Gabe doesn’t have a job, he is a high school student still mooching off his parents.
What do you do for a living, Gabe?
The U.K. and Canada have it? My God, I’m sold!
We’re the United States of a America. I don’t want to copy the shitty ideas of lesser, more statist countries.
”
What do you do for a living, Gabe?”
I work in accounting….Yourself?
I’m a teacher. Hasn’t Dennis gotten you to read my blog yet? He’a big fan.
“The U.K. and Canada have it? My God, I’m sold!”
The entirety of the first world has it, other than the US, which is why we do poorly in rankings for life expectancy and overall health.
Jay, where was the bitching and the moaning for the last 8 years? The economy began tanking under a GOP president. The first bailouts were under a GOP president. And the right was silent. They sat on their asses while the economy tanked, while the government was trashed, and while people died in Iraq.
So pardon us if we’re a little tired of the bull from the right and their sudden discovery that OMG DEMOCRACY IS IN TEH DANGERR!!! that popped up at about noon on January 20th and expressed itself in signs about Marxism, Nazism, Socialism, Euthanasia and an entire pile of bullshit.
You people fucked up this country. BAD. And you ignored serious problems like health care reform for years. So pardon us if we respond to the right’s ridicule, whining, and racism with the highest derision.
The right screwed up the country, and all you can do is bitch. You refuse to offer any substantive input into how to do things. Obama bends over backwards, trims the stimulus, adds tax breaks and for what? Not a single GOP vote in the House. We’ve now substantially watered down health care reform, there might not even be a public option in the legislation and what’s the response?
DEATH PANELS. FUCKING DEATH PANELS.
We are trying to run a country here, one of the most important ones, and slightly less than half of the political dialogue in this country is a bunch of right wing space cadet work. You guys are not serious about doing dick to help America, you care about getting seats for corrupt asses like Tom DeLay and their ilk yet again.
The Dems are far from perfect, but even the most annoying, aggravating blue dog has expressed more interest and concern in doing the rank basics required to make some sort of positive change for our country.
But go on, bitch about TYRANNY and SMALLER GOVERNMENT and other wet dream fetishes on the right.
Gabriel, go away.
“Moochers? Doesn’t the fact we all get to mooch effectively cancel out the moochiness of it? If I pay premiums and taxes, and get benefits too, how am I mooching?
“
I might agree if we were all taxed at the same rate. Also a person with 6 kids mooching vs a person with none mooching both paying the same ammount of tax doesn’t exactly seem equal either.
Burn,
Almost everyone has been poor at one time or another. I started off poor, not that I am rich now but I can pay the bills each month without running off to amscott for a cash advance.
It is what you do to rise out of being poor that makes all of the difference. Some are just more willing to make hard sacrifices to get where they want to be. Some dont want to make any sacrifices at all, especially if it cuts into thier partying time and they just keep saying “this year things are gonna happen for me, I’ll get what is comin to me”.
I know because I was one of those people, back in my early twenties. One day I got sick of waiting and decided to do something about it. I went to college & balanced 2 jobs, a wife and 6 kids.
It was the hardest point of my life. I had 2 days a week where I wouldn’t get to sleep for over 24 hours, and that went on for my entire last year of school. it was work, school, work, work, school > crash! I am actually supprised I didnt fall asleep driving the 90 mile drive to school during that time.
I can understand government lending a helping hand, but it cant last forever. At some point we need to hold people accountable for thier choices. The system was desinged to be a helping hand, not a way of life.
So a non-smoker who gets cancer got it because they were lazy?
This is where the con argument goes off the rails. This is health we’re talking about, something that in many cases (parents’ genetics) no amount of bullshit Randian “self-sufficiency” is going to improve.
Everybody works ard to get where they want to be. And the hardest working person might be told they’re going to die in a month without medical care, regardless.
So congrats on the feel-good “I did it all by myself” story (hardly unique in America), but it honestly has little relevance to this issue.
” The first bailouts were under a GOP president. And the right was silent.”
That’s blatant bullshit. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
The first bailouts were under a GOP president. The right, for the most part, was completely silent.
“I’m sure you are valuable contributor to the McDonalds team.”
Hey you arrogant son of a bitch, have you noticed that almost no one posts on your childish blog? That’s why you’re always here because nobody talks to you where YOU live. Grow up you minion stodge.
Just look at the vote totals in 2008 campaign for those making under $15,000 per year, and under $30,000 per year….Obama won those overwhelmingly, and those are the people who are without health insurance…..Facts are stubborn things….
Well they sound like pretty smart folks if you ask me – voting to protect and further their self interest. Isn’t that the game – oh right I almost forgot, only when you’re winning. Any new comments over on your “blog?”
The right were completely silent, locked in the silent scream of watching their portfolios circling the bowl, all the while leaning on Team McCains zombie crash-cart, nodding at any and all absurdities sputtered by them. Hank Paulson wrote cheques incredibly fast, but his personality. Didn’t. Have. The cash. It was a far distant simpler time, sometimes referred to as last fall.
I remember Bill O in complete agreement with Bush’s first bank bailout (can’t remember who it was now) and completely against any bailout for the car companies. Of course he really meant the unions. I’m pretty sure he had investments in the bailed out investment bank because about a week earlier he was bragging about some banking stocks he just purchased for a really good price. When it was revealed that said bank was trading in bad paper, he said he had to have a talk with his investment broker. He was in a fit.
Oliver,
Hate to Burst your bubble but partisan attacks are nothing new. It happened with Bush, Clinton, Bush & Reagan and probably generations before that.
I suppose those attacks were because they were white?
Get some better excuses besides OMG it is because O is black. Yeah you may be able to dig up a few white racist retards, but don’t go thinking we are unique. I have met alot of Black and Hispanic racists as well, all races have idiots.
Just the way things are, grow up and get over it.
“Yeah you may be able to dig up a few white racist retards, but don’t go thinking we are unique.”
Huh??
“… all races have idiots.”
Right.
“Just the way things are, grow up and get over it.”
Wrong.
“Gabriel, go away.”
Ban him only until he turns 16.
Canadian bacon,
I wish it were.
Only time will change it. One would have to agree that generations X & Y are less racist than those before them.
Give us another 3000 years and there won’t be any black or white we will have cross bred so much by then we will all look pretty much the same the same.
Calling people that don’t like O’s policies racist it just bullshiat.
I might have more respect if Oliver blasted people for calling Katy Abram racist yesterday, but he is a one way street when it comes to race.
Get some better excuses besides OMG it is because O is black
Talk to your own guys. They’re hysterical because the President is black. Cons took about a year or so under Clinton to go to black helicopter land, they were there before inauguration under Obama.
There weren’t any tea parties until Obama was sworn in. Not a single one.
I actually live in Smyrna area and I am glad that my rep isn’t being swayed by these nut job racists. I would more put this outpouring of racist screeds and anger is the death knell of a dying section of America. They see things changing and rather than EVOLVE they want destruction. Republican’s like Grassely are only fanning the flames.
RASMUSSEN POLL: Obama Approval Rating Falls to New Low: 47 %… Developing…
There weren’t any tea parties until Obama was sworn in. Not a single one.
Tell that to the people of Boston… they seem to think they had at least one tea party a couple of hundred years before Obama was born. (Wherever that was — tee hee.)
And since when does correlation automatically equal causation?
At no other time in our history did we have both Houses of Congress headed by absolute dipshits, along with a president of the same party intent on putting the federal government in charge of huge swaths of the nation’s economy and sending the deficit to record levels.
At no other time in our history did we have both Houses of Congress headed by absolute dipshits
I’d like to introduce you to some people: Sen. Frist, Rep. Hastert…
(Dammit, hit “submit” too soon.)
Anyway, the bank just called. You’ve maxed out your race card. Time to cut it up.
J.
This health care bs is goin down and it’s goin down hard. We don’t give a shit what any of you call us.
And your messiah’s approval rating has cratered to 47%. Remember when this site was posting all the “Ooooh lookee 63% approval the americans love him bla bla bla?”
I do.
Didn’t last long, did it you sorry fuckers!!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaah!
You right wing folks are going to cry and poop your pants yet again when this health reform gets passed, and your numbers will get smaller still, and yet the teabag mania will get even more intense. It will be both sad and amusing. I’m looking forward to it.
Jay, where was the bitching and the moaning for the last 8 years? The economy began tanking under a GOP president. The first bailouts were under a GOP president. And the right was silent.
Oliver, this is a LIE. A complete and total LIE. Opposition to the bailouts was VERY STRONG in conservative and libertarian circles.
It’s a LIE. It’s one of those lies that Democrats and the left repeat over and over and over and over again until they have convinced themselves and others with pea sized brains that it’s the true.
It’s a lie.
And you know what? I don’t care what your opinion is about who’s to blame for the economic mess. The fact of the matter is, the majority of the problems are centered around the housing problem which is an issue that rests largely on the shoulders of Democrats who fought tooth and nail against tightening standards for lending and meanwhile attempting to blame it on deregulation (another lie that Democrats were successful in getting people to believe that MORE regulation was needed when it was regulation and government pressure that opened up the floodgates for people to be approved for mortgages for houses they could not afford).
You want to have that debate, fine. Have that debate.
But guess what?
YOU. DON’T. DEBATE.
Since the moment Barack Obama was sworn in, you are a blogger that has joined the chorus of other left wing bloggers that has done nothing but sit around, looking for every single instance of racism you could find directed at President Obama and saying “THIS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES!!”
Your happy little leftist circle jerks in the comments section sit there like spaced out minions happily clapping along and when one of the people (like Sean for instance) challenge the status quo, they’re set upon by the angry left around here like a pack of starving dogs. It’s pathetic.
You don’t want to debate the merits of the the Democratic health care plan. Know why? BECAUSE YOU CAN’T. So it’s easier to find scare stories and examples of racism and throw that huge blanket over everybody that doesn’t bow down to the altar of Obama.
There weren’t any tea parties until Obama was sworn in. Not a single one.
There weren’t tea parties until after more bailouts, dumb-ass tax hiking proposals like cap and trade and when a nearly $1 trillion pork laden “stimulus” bill that people are claiming is “successful” but for the life of me cannot specify where these little bumps in economic news are tied to the stimulus package.
Tea parties didn’t pop up when Obama was sworn in, so give that nonsense a rest.
Oh and let’s take a trip back and time shall we? To a time when people here think the left’s opposition to President Bush was all flowers, pixie dust and expressions of “make love, not war.”:
News outlets that are focusing on the incendiary rhetoric of conservatives outside President Obama’s town hall meeting Tuesday ignored the incendiary rhetoric — and even violence — of liberals outside an appearance by former President George W. Bush in 2002.
When Bush visited Portland, Ore., for a fundraiser, protesters stalked his motorcade, assailed his limousine and stoned a car containing his advisers. Chanting “Bush is a terrorist!”, the demonstrators bullied passers-by, including gay softball players and a wheelchair-bound grandfather with multiple sclerosis.
One protester even brandished a sign that seemed to advocate Bush’s assassination. The man held a large photo of Bush that had been doctored to show a gun barrel pressed against his temple.
“BUSH: WANTED, DEAD OR ALIVE,” read the placard, which had an X over the word “ALIVE.”
Another poster showed Bush’s face with the words: “F— YOU, MOTHERF—ER!”
A third sign urged motorists to “HONK IF YOU HATE BUSH.” A fourth declared: “CHRISTIAN FASCISM,” with a swastika in place of the letter S in each word.
Although reporters from numerous national news organizations were traveling with Bush and witnessed the protest, none reported that protesters were shrieking at Republican donors epithets like “Slut!” “Whore!” and “Fascists!”
Frank Dulcich, president and CEO of Pacific Seafood Group, had a cup of liquid thrown into his face, and then was surrounded by a group of menacing protesters, including several who wore masks. Donald Tykeson, 75, who had multiple sclerosis and was confined to a wheelchair, was blocked by a thug who threatened him.
Protesters slashed the tires of several state patrol cruisers and leapt onto an occupied police car, slamming the hood and blocking the windshield with placards. A female police officer was knocked to the street by advancing protesters, badly injuring her wrist.
The angry protest grew so violent that the Secret Service was forced to take the highly unusual step of using a backup route for Bush’s motorcade because the primary route had been compromised by protesters, one of whom pounded his fist on the president’s moving limousine.
All the while, angry demonstrators brandished signs with incendiary rhetoric, such as “9/11 – YOU LET IT HAPPEN, SHRUB,” and “BUSH: BASTARD CHILD OF THE SUPREME COURT.” One sign read: “IMPEACH THE COURT-APPOINTED JUNTA AND THE FASCIST, EGOMANIACAL, BLOOD-SWILLING BEAST!”
Ahh…such LOVE.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/12/analysis-press-largely-ignored-incendiary-rhetoric-bush-protest/
Opposition to the bailouts was VERY STRONG in conservative and libertarian circles.
Yes, that’s why President Bush faced all those teabag parties last year. Oh wait, that never happened. You guys ate it like you did everything else from 2000-2008 then suddenly discovered principles when you lost power.
looking for every single instance of racism you could find directed at President Obama and saying “THIS IS REPRESENTATIVE OF ALL REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES!!”
The problem is, I don’t have to look hard. It’s right there on the surface. Your side went to the race shit the minute Obama got close to being the nominee. They called him boy, they claimed he wasn’t born in America, claimed he was Muslim, etc. The GOP has a race problem but people like you ignore it because hey, you need those guys to vote your way so what’s a bit of Klan action if they just don’t make too much noise.
You don’t want to debate the merits of the the Democratic health care plan. Know why? BECAUSE YOU CAN’T.
In case you haven’t noticed that’s what we’re trying to do right now, but instead you have a bunch of whiny ass babies obsessed with the idea that Comrade Obama is going to turn them into Soylent Green. How the fuck are we supposed to have a rational debate with that?
I never said Bush didn’t face tough opposition from the left. But our opposition was based on the fact that George W. Bush was encouraging policies that were actively getting American people killed. You guys are losing your shit over reforms to health care that will expand coverage to OMG TEH POOR PEOPLEZ!!
Jay, where was the bitching and the moaning for the last 8 years? The economy began tanking under a GOP president. The first bailouts were under a GOP president. And the right was silent.
Bitching.
Moaning.
“Silent“?
Wrong.
Yeah, you libs need to stop blaming President Bush Jr. for what happened when Republicans had absolute power 2002 – 2006 and blame the real perpetrators of economic damage, Jimmy Carter and Barney Frank and ACORN, and so forth.
And you have never, ever debated these points, by which I mean you have failed to regurgitate every one of these debates at every moment I demand you to.
We’ve now substantially watered down health care reform, there might not even be a public option in the legislation and what’s the response? DEATH PANELS. FUCKING DEATH PANELS.
If you think talk of death panels is stupid, then blame Obama for bringing them up in the first place.
If you think talk of death panels is stupid, then blame Obama for bringing them up in the first place.
Oh give me a break. The death panel mess is a right-wing owned and operated bullshit point, and you know that.
SaveFarris: I admire the commitment of people trying to make more bullshit fly out of that Obama story, but one of the important factors is that hip replacement surgery is inherently very risky in survival factors for the very aged.
By the way, since it’s the topic of the post, I will clarify that though I do think that a racist opposition to Obama does count as a major motivation by the new paranoid right, it does not account for all of it, nor is it as explanatory as is complete and paranoid opposition to the hard right and Southern right having massively lost power, particularly when they thought they had captured it forever.
Oliver, you should make sure and clarify that racism is among the motivations for some percentage of the paranoiac right opposition to health care reform and to Obama in general, but it just doesn’t work to suggest that it is the key or the major motivation for all anti-Obama and anti-Democrat rightist paranoiacs.
You don’t want to debate the merits of the the Democratic health care plan. Know why? BECAUSE YOU CAN’T.
Wow.
I mean, I guess technically, when you present the entire plan and you’re not allowed to say anything without right-wing lunatics screaming “death panels!” and “killing grandma” you “can’t debate.”
It’s getting boringly repetitive pointing out the pathetic self-projection coming from the trolls on comments like this, but this one certainly takes the cake.
‘We’re the United States of a America. I don’t want to copy the shitty ideas of lesser, more statist countries.’
God knows you’re leading the way when it comes to ignorant, brainwashed fanatics and Right wing lunacy.
Congratulations.
I mean, I guess technically, when you present the entire plan and you’re not allowed to say anything without right-wing lunatics screaming “death panels!” and “killing grandma” you “can’t debate.”
Yawn. Here we go. Can’t you be the least bit original?
And one has to laugh at the culture that shrugged its shoulders at people like Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright getting their panties in a bunch because a few people are yelling mean things at town halls.
At no other time in our history did we have both Houses of Congress headed by absolute dipshits, along with a president of the same party intent on putting the federal government in charge of huge swaths of the nation’s economy and sending the deficit to record levels.
Kinda makes you weepy for deep thinkers of the past like Rick Santorum, Strom Thurmond and Jeb Bradley who brought integrity to an era where a president shits his pants reading a childrens book while the nation was under attack then run up a gubnit’ tab of a half-trillion dollars.
Keep living like a rube, chickenshit.
The USA is quite low on WHO rankings? What will the parties do about that?
Yawn. Here we go. Can’t you be the least bit original?
Oh look, listening bores you. Imagine my surprise.
- telling people that a universal system would encourage terrorist attacks
Wow, I had not heard that. How does that work, exactly?
If you think talk of death panels is stupid, then blame Obama for bringing them up in the first place.
Lie. Big fat stinking turd of a lie.
Actually there was furious grassroots and talk radio opposition to Hank Paulsen’s original 3 page ransom note.
When it came down to an actual bill and the Democrats had negotitated some (not nearly enough) guidelines, then it was funny to watch the interplay between Republican politicians who enjoyed stirring up the ‘anti-socialist’ red meat brigades as they started to hear from their Wall Street super-capitalist betters.
None were more ridiculous than Newt Gingrich. He like most Republican leaders assumed on the first House bailout vote that Democrats would be stupid enough to pass it in the House w/out Republican votes.
Shockingly, they weren’t — for one time in their history, the Democrats realized they must commit only enough votes to pass with significant Republican support, as the GOP really wanted all 3 goals: pass the bailout for their (and the Dems’) Wall St masters, blame it on Bush Jr., and tie it to the Democrats.
So he raged against the bailout and the first vote on the first bill, right up until the moment in the middle of the day when he began realizing that Democrats this one time weren’t stupid enough to take this bullet alone.
So Mr. “Lead the Rebellion” Gingrich slammed on the brakes, turned hard, and pulled up the parking brake to skid around then began driving back in the other direction. “I think this bill is certainly not perfect but it should be passed,” etc etc etc.
If Pelosi had played the usual Democrat game of giving in to every Republican and especially Bush Jr. hissyfit, they risked being slaughtered. Instead we got to watch would-be counter-revolutionary have to throw away his re-enactor costume and publicly reverse his stance within the span of a few hours.
‘We’re the United States of a America. I don’t want to copy the shitty ideas of lesser, more statist countries.’
No, what you’re saying is that we can’t do what every other industrialized nation has figured out how to do; to keep it’s citizens healthier and provide care for everyone.
We’re the United States of America. We put people on the moon and brought them back. Don’t fucking tell me it can’t be done, you defeatist prick.
“We vow to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy but because they are hard.”
This is one of those other things. Probably the most historic time in America since women got the right to vote. Which side of history do you want to be on?
Duros, no offense but you sound like Obama in campaign mode.
Obama in campaign mode isn’t working anymore.
Obama in campaign mode isn’t working anymore.
And yet, Dennis, you found it necessary to spread lies about health care reform. Why is that?
fafaroo, had I wanted to ’spread lies about health care reform, this is hardly the place I’d choose to do it, my friend.
Neither Granny nor Aunt Silvia nor any of their friends knows about this website, and the folks who post and lurk here for the most part aren’t at all sympathetic to their concerns. If that were truly my intent, this would be a lousy choice of a venue, now wouldn’t it? This is about the last place in the world to hang out my shingle.
My guess is you’ve never been in sales, nor ever tried to sell anything.
Which side of history do you want to be on?
My money’s on ‘the side which fought it tooth and nail but later claims credit.’
Possibly also ‘the side which fought it tooth and nail and later claims it failed in shitty, laughably bad conservative books published by regnery.’
Jay, your long rant at 8:42 this morning, about what a liar and a loser Oliver is, led me to believe you were stomping off and never coming back!
I mean, why argue with a bunch of spaced out minions, am I right?
So, imagine my surprise when, there you were, right back here at 10:11.
Yes, that’s why President Bush faced all those teabag parties last year. Oh wait, that never happened.
I never said there was. YOU claimed there was no opposition. I didn’t realize that a protest was necessary in order to be opposed to something.
The problem is, I don’t have to look hard. It’s right there on the surface. Your side went to the race shit the minute Obama got close to being the nominee. They called him boy, they claimed he wasn’t born in America, claimed he was Muslim, etc.
Oh puh-lease. Can you lead me to any mainstream conservative websites or organizations that bought into the notion Obama wasn’t born in America? Or Muslim? And one ONE Representative from Kentucky is not “they.” This is like me saying that the the fruitcakes at Democratic Underground and the kook left fringe that bought into crap like “Loose Change” and the other left wingers that accused President Bush of being in on the 9/11 attacks and that he was taking direct orders from oil companies to go to war with Iraq is part of mainstream Democratic thought. And we DO KNOW that some elected Democratic officials DID spout that kind of nonsense.
n case you haven’t noticed that’s what we’re trying to do right now, but instead you have a bunch of whiny ass babies obsessed with the idea that Comrade Obama is going to turn them into Soylent Green. How the fuck are we supposed to have a rational debate with that?
Well maybe you can ignore the the tiny small percentage of wack-a-doos and start engaging those who are putting forward ideas that are counter to what Obama and the Democrats are offering up.
But you see, that would take some effort on your part. It would mean not portraying those with ideas different than yours like actual people instead of caricatures that you attempt to portray as those who are leading the debate.
It’s amazing because I have visited other websites where people had totally different views on health care reform. It was obvious that some people supported wholeheartedly Obama’s plan and others didn’t. Yet the tone was respectful, despite those differences.
But you Oliver, you seem to get off on just showing the worst. Now I’ve provided you with several links to different alternatives to what Obama and Democrats are proposing in two other entries. Do you want to debate those or are you content in cherry picking the stuff that is easy to just ridicule?
Can you lead me to any mainstream conservative websites or organizations that bought into the notion Obama wasn’t born in America?
Talk to the House co-sponsors of the birther bill, or conservative thinker/leaders like Limbaugh and Hannity who have said “We’re just asking for the birth certificate”.
Well maybe you can ignore the the tiny small percentage of wack-a-doos and start engaging those who are putting forward ideas that are counter to what Obama and the Democrats are offering up.
Jay, dude, its not a tiny percentage of wack a doos. The things we’re pointing out are being said by mainstream Republican/conservative pols and pundits. The right has pushed the craziest shit in response to health care reform rather than substantive, useful criticisms. And the solutions they’re pushing, as you linked? The same old warmed-over tax cut free market jesus stuff that doesn’t actually solve the problem we’re working on.
Parthy, I don’t mean this as a snarky challenge, but what bad conservative books published by Regnery have you read?
Well maybe you can ignore the the tiny small percentage of wack-a-doos and start engaging those who are putting forward ideas that are counter to what Obama and the Democrats are offering up.
Did you read this, Dennis? Jay is calling you a wack-a-doo and suggesting we ignore you.
Did those other websites you have visited, Jay, suddenly close up, and now you have nowhere to go but this one?
Although I would be interested in visiting, too. Please name a few.
IF you’re coming back to this crummy blog, that is.
I can’t believe that a month or so ago I expressed suprise that you’d go so low as to put words in other people’s mouths, fafaroo, because since that time, you seem to be taking great delight in doing just that. Jay didn’t call me that.
Now as to the suggestion that you ignore me, if he does think that, we’re in agreement. I honestly don’t think you could if you wanted to. You’re not a smoker or an alcoholic, are you?
Duros, no offense but you sound like Obama in campaign mode.
Obama in campaign mode isn’t working anymore.
Fuck you.
How’s that, better?
My money’s on ‘the side which fought it tooth and nail but later claims credit.’
Exactly.
Only in that it sounds more like Obama now rather than how he sounded on the campaign trail.
That and it’s more true to your feelings than the ““We vow to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy but because they are hard.” bullshit you threw on us up above.
But you see, that would take some effort on your part. It would mean not portraying those with ideas different than yours like actual people instead of caricatures that you attempt to portray as those who are leading the debate.
But Jay, if they are standing up in the front of the room screaming and chanting, they kind of are leading the debate. They aren’t allowing ANY ideas to be portrayed.
That and it’s more true to your feelings than the ““We vow to go to the moon and do the other things not because they are easy but because they are hard.” bullshit you threw on us up above.
Oh, that’s bullshit now, Denny? Fuck you and your anti-American, can’t-do rhetoric.
“Boohoo, it can’t be done. We’re all doomed.”
We think that for the most part, if we do it your way, we may very well be doomed.
Economically, at least. Who knows about Granny and Aunt Silvia.
Economically, at least. Who knows about Granny and Aunt Silvia.
And you still keep going there. No matter how many times it gets explained to you, you still keep going there.
We think that for the most part, if we do it your way, we may very well be doomed.
And you would be ….SURPRISE!……wrong again.
Can you lead me to any mainstream conservative websites or organizations that bought into the notion Obama wasn’t born in America?
Lou Dobbs. Or does he not count because he’s on CNN?
Wake up, America! We can’t afford this! Other countries have this? Name one country that has more than 100 million citizens & provides QUALITY health care to all of its citizens, while simultaneously maintaining a quality of life. I’ll wait as you both go research health care & quality of life in China and India…
We can’t afford what we HAVE TODAY.
WATCH THIS! — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGpY2hw7ao8 —
This isn’t a Republican or Democrat problem/blame. This is everyone’s problem. Wake up and know what’s coming. You’ve got a major demographic disaster coming down the pipe, and we aren’t even discussing it. No, instead we’re going to charge more to Uncle Sam’s credit card and hand the bill off to our kids.
Go research the real disaster that’s coming, and no it’s not a left/right debate…it’s facts.
?? Why does the size of the country matter? It’s like saying Canada manages this on one tenth of our tax base.
(And actually, though most of China is actually pretty poor, health care is not bad — one of those things commies commit to, the health of the workers, doncha know.)
And you mentioned facts. What facts did you allude to there?
Gumby, apparently you didn’t watch the video, did you. The video is a 60 minutes article from 2007…blames this mess on the left & right.
Numbers matter because complexity grows with size and everything is exponential. Government adds bureaucracy as size grows, there’s more to serve, more nuances, more exceptions, a new form for this problem, a new problem for this one. 1% inefficiencies in a system that involves 50 million people is a lot smaller than one that involves 300 million.
Not to mention in healthcare, when you have a relatively rare, high cost disease that affects 1 in 100,000, population size affects the cost. In Canada, that will affect 340 citizens (34 million). In the US, it would affect 3,000.
And if you watched the video, you’d understand why this is an even bigger problem. Know your demographics. For the most part, the retired population (65+) doesn’t pay the bill, the working people do. The retired people NEED THE MOST HEALTHCARE…there’s not enough in tax revenue from the workers to fund the retirees…
Think about it.
And one has to laugh at the culture that shrugged its shoulders at people like Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright getting their panties in a bunch because a few people are yelling mean things at town halls and pointing guns at the POTUS.
Fixed.
“Name one country that has more than 100 million citizens & provides QUALITY health care to all of its citizens, while simultaneously maintaining a quality of life.”
South Korea. France. England. Canada. Belgium. Japan. Germany. Spain. Pretty much every other first-world economy.
Life expectancies by country ca. 2008:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
No, I didn’t. I’m not playing “run over there — “now run over there”. If you are too lazy to summarize the facts, then I’m not going to spend my time doing it for you so that you can make your argument to me.
And fer pity’s sake, size does not matter in an absolute sense because, SIGH, the size of the denominator under that number you are so worried about is also big too. 1% inefficiencies are 1% inefficiencies. They don’t turn into 10% as the sample size gets bigger. 34 million people get 340 cases, 300 million get 3000. Shouldn’t Canadians worry because their population is small? Do you get the idea of proportion at all? Did you flunk out of grade school fractions or something?
It’s like saying the 25% of the smartest Indians are more numerous than the entire population of the USA. Does that mean that India is “smarter” than the USA?
And don’t retired people have Medicare already? Is this an argument to get rid of that?
And isn’t health care going to get paid for no matter who funds it? Or are you arguing that we should get rid of health care altogether because there’s too much of a demand?
Personally, I’d rather pay my health insurance dollars (or the benefit from my employer that otherwise could be salary) to a body that is disinterested in the entire transaction than to a body that is in an inherent conflict of interest in trying to enhance value for its shareholders which comes at the expense of my health.
Name one country that has more than 100 million citizens & provides QUALITY health care to all of its citizens, while simultaneously maintaining a quality of life.
France.
And nobody is proposing that our government “provide” health care to all of our citizens.
Some of us really didn’t care for bush, he was a watered down socialist. So please spare us the last years bullshiat. I voted for change, not a socialist.
You can not abandon the free market principles in order to save it. You can not get out of debt by incurring more debt, and you cannot fix healthcare by a government seizure.
Look at governmenyts attempts: millitary, VA, Medicare, Medicaid – all humongous failures.
Would you idiots stop saying this nostrum? It’s not true — businesses that borrow enough to sufficiently capitalize for an expanded market or truly higher profitability do in fact get out of debt by incurring more debt.
Who the fuck taught you this retarded phrase?
“Wake up, America! We can’t afford this.”
Can you afford another war/invasion?
“You can not abandon the free market principles in order to save it.”
Please somebody show me where free market principles have been applied and have worked; then show me where socialism has been applied and has worked.
El Cid: Who the fuck taught you this retarded phrase?
People who are incapable of grasping anything further out than the next quarter.
Some of us really didn’t care for bush, he was a watered down socialist
True, he did spread
indiscriminate bombingour military power a tad too thin, but go on…South Korea. France. England. Canada. Belgium. Japan. Germany. Spain. Pretty much every other first-world economy.
Jaim,
The test involved three questions:
1. Population greater than 100 million
2. Quality health care
3. Quality of life
South Korea: 48 million
France: 65M
England: 61M (UK)
Canada: 33M
Belgium: 10M (really? Belgium?)
Japan: 127M (potential winner, here)
Germany: 82M
Spain: 46M
So, Japan might be a winner. Yet doctors have complained that the national system pays “peanuts” for services, forcing some to find alternative forms of income. And hospitals (overnight stays can priced as low as $10) often turn ER patients away due to overcapacity. With that said, no system is perfect, so Japan might be something to look at.
Gumby,
Population is a key factor.
It’s not about tax revenue vs. expense.
It’s about process, efficiencies, and complexity.
No, I didn’t flunk out of school. I’m may not be an actuarial, but as a Six Sigma black belt, I do understand PROCESS COMPLEXITY, and how it impacts COST and the ability or inability to reach perfection in a process.
A process/solution that must be capable of supporting 250-300 million is VERY different from one that covers 30-60 million.
To DESIGN and implement a process/solution that covers or CAN cover 300 million requires a tremendous bureaucracy
To MEASURE a process of this size as it is executed requires a large administration to monitor the execution of the designed process.
To continuously ANALYZE a process of this size as it is executed and as gaps are identified requires more administrators and analysis efforts.
To utilize said analysis, and IMPROVE the process/solution of this size going forward, involves a heavier change management effort and ensuring that no additional gaps/risks are created by improvements.
To implement CONTROL and ensure that a process/solution OF THIS SIZE does not create defects or failures requires tremendous oversight and regulatory control.
——————–
But then whenever has the government EVER sought after perfection. When the government makes mistakes, the response is get over it or write your Congress-person.
In Six Sigma, errors are measured as DPMO or defects per million opportunities. The standard goal in Six Sigma is traditionally 3.4. Do you have ANY idea how many MILLIONS of opportunities would be in a process this size?!?!
Why strive for perfection? Let’s assume that 200,000,000 Americans file an average of just TWO claims a year. The National Insurance Program successfully process 99.5% of those claims. Then that only means 2,000,000 claims wouldn’t get paid. I’m sure doctors and hospitals could get over that.
Canadian Bacon,
First, I never said I was a fan of the Iraq war or another invasion. That’s a red herring. You’re arguing that we should spend more money because Bush got to spend his.
No, in fact, because we spent so much money on the wars, we don’t have the money to spend on this.
To go metaphorical on your argument…
Mom and Dad gave your older brother a new car, computer, and paid for him to go on a tour of the world for two years. Now your parents are broke. You, however, demand that they pay for your college. Your desires are more “moral”, but it doesn’t change the reality that your parents are broke.
Wake up, America! We can’t afford this! Other countries have this? Name one country that has more than 100 million citizens & provides QUALITY health care to all of its citizens, while simultaneously maintaining a quality of life.
Japan.
No, I didn’t. I’m not playing “run over there — “now run over there”. If you are too lazy to summarize the facts, then I’m not going to spend my time doing it for you so that you can make your argument to me.
I’m lazy? You apparently have decided to get all your facts from this site and Wikipedia. Go do some real research and understand the reality that is coming in the next 30 years.
Let me give you the headline. We’ve got to FIX our current budget mess before we can make the bill 10 times larger.
But since you apparently don’t know how to use Google or You Tube, I’ve summarized the Long-term fiscal challenges facing the United States, Senate testimony delivered by Chairman Ben S. Bernanke delivered in January 2007.
1. Like many other industrial countries, the United States has entered what is likely to be a long period of demographic transition, the result of the baby boom, the reduction in fertility that followed the baby boom and of ongoing increases in life expectancy.
2. In 2030, Americans 65 and older will constitute about 19 percent of the U.S. population, and the ratio of those between the ages of 20 and 64 to those 65 and older will have fallen to about 3.
3. The CBO calculates that, by 2030, the federal budget deficit will approach 9 percent of GDP–more than four times greater as a share of GDP than the deficit in fiscal year 2006.
4. The federal debt held by the public increases each year by the amount of that year’s unified deficit. This leads to snowball increases in the nation’s required interest payments to bondholders.
5. A vicious cycle may develop in which large deficits lead to rapid growth in debt and interest payments, which in turn adds to subsequent deficits.
6. Interest payments on the government’s debt will reach 4-1/2 percent of GDP in 2030
7. Under this scenario, the ratio of federal debt held by the public to GDP would climb from 37 percent currently to roughly 100 percent in 2030 and would continue to grow exponentially after that.
8. Crucially, whatever size of government is chosen, tax rates must ultimately be set at a level sufficient to achieve an appropriate balance of spending and revenues in the long run.
A) Members of the Congress who put special emphasis on keeping tax rates low must accept that low tax rates can be sustained only if outlays, including those on entitlements, are kept low as well.
B) Members who favor a more expansive role of the government, including relatively more-generous benefits payments, must recognize the burden imposed by the additional taxes needed to pay for the higher spending, a burden that includes not only the resources transferred from the private sector but also any adverse economic incentives associated with higher tax rates.
9. The annual budget deficit reflects only near-term financing needs and does not capture long-term fiscal imbalances.
10. If early and meaningful action is not taken, the U.S. economy could be seriously weakened, with future generations bearing much of the cost.
Hey Indie, my question was rhetorical and not directly intended for you, even though it may look that way. It just seems that Countries always have $$$$$ for wars, but never enough for food stamps and hot breakfasts for under privileged children. Not wanting health care reform is a political and social decision that may or may not have any thing to do with money. Just because some people say you can’t afford it, doesn’t mean you actually can’t. And sometimes, even when you can’t afford worthy reforms, you should at least try. And to use your metaphorical imagery, sometimes parents need to borrow the money if it’s for a good cause; in this case, little Joe’s college education. When I started my little business, the VISA card was my cash flow and line of credit. Now I hardly use it. I think the “can’t afford it” argument can also be a red herring.
So Independent, how will insurance companies be able to afford the upcoming demographic catastrophe?
There aren’t that many countries with a population over 100 million. Further, so what? If anything, countries with smaller populations will have a smaller tax-base.
Point is you tried, and failed, to demonstrate that other first-world countries have bad health-plans when they don’t. Hell, I work with Canadians and Brits and they can’t help but laugh and deride any nation that can’t even afford to take care of the basic health of its people.
Not having some form of a national health-care system is frankly embarrasing. The rest of the civilized world is moving on into the 21st century without as, as Americans become increasingly unhealthy and our life-expectancy continue to drop compared to the other countries I mentioned.
Look at governmenyts attempts: millitary, VA, Medicare, Medicaid – all humongous failures.
Wow. Did you just call the American military a humongous failure? The most advanced fighting force on earth?
Wow. You need to take your yellow ribbon magnet of your SUV right this instant.
Wake up, America! We can’t afford this! Other countries have this? Name one country that has more than 100 million citizens & provides QUALITY health care to all of its citizens, while simultaneously maintaining a quality of life.
Zython:Japan.
France. Canada, Spain, Germany. Sweden. Switzerland. Norway. Belgium. Denmark.
Sorry, didn’t read the follow ups.
Population is a key factor.
well, obviously, we have to ramp up the jack-booted ACORN and SEIU death-squad thugs to make some more room and thin the herd, tout suite!
Indie — process complexity v. economy of scale — who wins the tug of war? If you had a system that dealt with 4 incidents of a particularly complicated and expensive disease v. one that dealt with 400 — would not the one with 400 have better capacity to deal with it effectively, reducing admin costs on a per incident basis?
Its why large hospitals are capable of having things like neonatal care etc. and smaller institutions in smaller centres cannot support.
And my response to that list of points — that we cannot afford it — is the same as I made above, and which canadian bacon made. Health care is going to get paid for one way or the other. Either through private insurers who do not have my best interest as their primary mandate, or through govt insurance which at least will have a broader mandate than simply enhancing shareholder value. And that the burden on taxpayers is offset by the decreased costs paid to private insurers. That people are getting older and there will be more demand for health care isn’t an argument against insurance reform, in fact it’s an argument for reform, in my view. I don’t want an insurance company death panel euthanizing my grandma!
France. Canada, Spain, Germany. Sweden. Switzerland. Norway. Belgium. Denmark.
Well, Japan’s was the only population I knew off the top of my head (~130 mil).
Some of us really didn’t care for bush, he was a watered down socialist.
See, there you go again. I seriously can’t tell if you are a parody troll or not.
To these people ANYBODY in government is a socialist.
“Some of us really didn’t care for bush, he was a watered down socialist.”
I hope you mean a watered down free enterpriser.