’)IBD: Stephen Hawking would have died under the British NHS!!!!
Reality: Stephen Hawking’s life was helped by the British NHS. Also, Stephen Hawking is British.
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Oliver Willis
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But Christopher Reeve would be walking today if John Kerry were President!
Wow, Hawking was actually born in the UK 67 years ago! And the government didn’t infanticide him on the spot!!!
I guess the fact that the organization IBD refers to (the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence or NICE) didn’t even exist until 1999 and, as such, didn’t kill young Hawking in the crib is proof … that the IBD is making things up?
SaveFarris pulls a double dumbass as Hawking wasn’t diagnosed with Motor Neuron Disease until he was 21, well after when the UK’s National Health Service had already been in place for over a decade. Seems that he wasn’t put before a “death panel” which from what I’ve read from you crazies is then inevitable outcome of any fatal disease in a government system. In fact Hawking was recently cured of a chest infection so they must still treat those with chronic conditions.
Almost seems like you thrive on spreading disinformation.
Almost seems like you thrive on spreading disinformation.
Ya think?
I guess MichaelOverHere missed the whole “started in 1999″ bit. You really think if Hawking hadn’t been a world-renound astrophysicist and recurring Simpsons character by the time the program started, he would have passed the “death panel”?
Shorter SaveFarris: Ignore IBD’s stupidity, instead engage in this hypothetical “what if” I pulled outta my ass!
Just read the article that SaveFarris seems to think of as truth. It’s full of lies:
“One troubling provision of the House bill,” writes Betsy McCaughey in the New York Post, “compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, Pages 425-430).”
SaveFarris have you ever had a family member in the final years of their life draft a living will? Do you see it as a bad thing? Are you against people making provisions for their end of life care? Do you agree with IBD’s assertion that pages 425-430 of the House bill are setting up a NICE like agency? Because that’s the only interpretation of that article that I’ve read.
Also: Do you have any of instances someone with Motor Neuron Disease being denied care by NICE?
Shorter Oliver: can’t back up my argument with facts, so let the name-calling commence!
SaveFarris, I’m waiting.
Farris, if you want to try to defend this lunacy based on the fact that the UK NICE program began in 1999, you’re not doing yourself any favors. Apparently, you haven’t taken the time to find out what the program is and what it does and whether the IBD’s claims make any sense at all.
The NICE program does not make recommendations regarding the treatment of individuals. Its purpose is to make recommendations about which treatments are most effective for various medical diagnoses.
This is nothing more than the bogus “death panel” aregument offshored to the UK system.
To put this in an even simpler perspective, Farris, the IBD is complaining that NICE does exactly what every health insurance company in America does: check to make sure money isn’t spent on treatments that don’t work.
Well, until Hawking presents a certified copy of his certificate of live birth I’m not so sure . . .
Hm, SaveFarris had the time to be snarky with Oliver but not any time to answer my completely legitimate questions. What a chump.
Hawking got better and cheaper care in the UK than he ever would have gotten in America.
First off, bedtime comes earlier as you get older.
Second, you might have a case about “legitimate questions” going unanswered if you hadn’t led off with “double dumbass”. Want to get a legitimate question answered? Act like a grownup.
Besides, I did answer your question, even if snarkily. The British version of the “death panel” wasn’t created until 1999, at which time Hawking had already made his name as a world renouned scientist. And therefore had enough left to offer to society to offset the cost of his care. Trig Palin is (as far as I know) *NOT* a famous astrophysicist, so if he were to appear before NICE (or whatever the American equivalent becomes), I doubt he’d get the same consideration.
Quaker, if you don’t like the decision made by your insurance company vis a vi a particular treatment, what are your options? You can change policies or, heaven forbid, pay for it in cash. It may not be optimal, but as a famous Alabama distance runner once said: “S#*t happens”.
Now, if the government decides they’re not paying for a particular treatment, what recourse do you have? Little to none short of expatriation. And that’s why a majority of Americans are opposed to ObamaCare.
Well, according to your immediately preceding paragraph, he would “heaven forbid, pay for it in cash”.
Or are you now suggesting that a gubmit death panel would bar you from receiving any care they didn’t like?
You’re assuming the govt would be the only provider. Why wouldn’t I have the same options you mention – get another policy or pay out of pocket? And I’d like a system based on something a little more sympathetic than ’shit happens.’
“You can change policies”
Um, no. A pre-existing condition will keep you from getting other coverage.
Do you even begin to understand how the current system works? We already have “death panels,” and they’re called insurance company lawyers and accountants.
Forgot to mention, Obama’s plan would prevent companies from black-listing you for pre-existing conditions. This is arguably the most important reform we need.
if the government decides they’re not paying for a particular treatment, what recourse do you have?
Insurance companies make that decision every day. It’s called “death by spreadsheet.” What recourse do you have when THEY do it?
Besides, I did answer your question, even if snarkily. The British version of the “death panel” wasn’t created until 1999, at which time Hawking had already made his name as a world renouned scientist. And therefore had enough left to offer to society to offset the cost of his care. Trig Palin is (as far as I know) *NOT* a famous astrophysicist, so if he were to appear before NICE (or whatever the American equivalent becomes), I doubt he’d get the same consideration.
Farris, there is no “death panel” either in the current legislation or in the UK.
You can pretend there is, but that is your illusion, not reality. There is no panel that decides what treatments Dr. Hawking gets. There will be no panel that decides what treatments Trig Palin gets.
That stuff is made up, misleading, fake, phony, and bogus.
Quaker, if you don’t like the decision made by your insurance company vis a vi a particular treatment, what are your options? You can change policies
Do you even have health insurance? It does NOT work that way.
There will be no panel that decides what treatments Trig Palin gets.
Indeed. Where is that provision in the bill? I can’t find it.
Now, if the government decides they’re not paying for a particular treatment, what recourse do you have?
Under the proposed legislation, the government would make these decisions only for “the public option”–health insurance offered by the government. That’s not the only choice. There will still be employer-provided insurance offered by insurance companies. There will still be individual coverage (again, offered by insurance companies) sold through an insurance exchange.
If the government, as underwriter of the public option, won’t pay for a given treatment, my options are exactly the same as they are today.
Trig Palin is (as far as I know) *NOT* a famous astrophysicist, so if he were to appear before NICE (or whatever the American equivalent becomes), I doubt he’d get the same consideration.
Oh, for..
THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN! EVER!
And if it ever does, I’ll be right there with you against it.
Any guesses on how long it will be before Farris returns, pretending that none of this ever happened and repeating the same B.S.?
…if you don’t like the decision made by your insurance company vis a vi a particular treatment, what are your options? You can change policies…
SaveFarris, I have to call you on this one because it’s a lie. In our current system what insurance company offers a policy that covers anything that was diagnosed and rejected by another insurance company? That’s a pre-existing condition.
A few legitimate questions: Have you ever had a family member in the final years of their life draft a living will?
Why do you see a living will and other end of life planning as a bad thing? Do you agree with IBD’s assertion that pages 425-430 of the House bill are setting up a NICE like agency?
Finally, unless you have even a single instance of either someone with Motor Neuron Disease or a baby with Down Syndrome being denied care by NICE you really need to stop making these bad faith arguments.
Trig Palin is (as far as I know) *NOT* a famous astrophysicist, so if he were to appear before NICE (or whatever the American equivalent becomes), I doubt he’d get the same consideration.
I have English friends who have a down syndrome child so I know that they would and do provide care to children with down syndrome. Also, after speaking to them they laughed at your entire “appear before NICE” because it’s not a panel that people appear before and never gets involved in individual decisions. (lie?) Plus they can pay for private care if they like even though your example says that they can’t. (lie?)
Michael, actually the “NICE-type agency” is in the bill. It’s on page 502:
Imagine! Research on which treatments actually work! The fascist bastards!
Stephen Hawking praises the British health care system that saved his life.
Hmm… who should I believe here… anonymous right-wing trolls or the smartest man alive? Hmmm…. right-wing idiots, world’s smartest living human being… god, this one is a toughie.
August beat me to it.
Don’t mess with us nerds, wing-nuts!