Comments on: Your Expert Is A Little… Flawed http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Sat, 11 Feb 2012 06:30:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.4 By: Bruce Henry http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168327 Bruce Henry Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:17:28 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168327 I stand corrected as to the meaning of "ad hominem." It seems to me that the Heritage Foundation was using kind of an "ad-hominem-in reverse" kind of thing. "Cash for Clunkers must be bad, because Greenspan says so!" And OW was pointing out that it's kinda obvious that Greenspan isn't as smart as people used to think, so who gives a shit what he thinks about it? I stand corrected as to the meaning of “ad hominem.” It seems to me that the Heritage Foundation was using kind of an “ad-hominem-in reverse” kind of thing. “Cash for Clunkers must be bad, because Greenspan says so!” And OW was pointing out that it’s kinda obvious that Greenspan isn’t as smart as people used to think, so who gives a shit what he thinks about it?

]]> By: Suicida| http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168231 Suicida| Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:32:52 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168231 The housing bubble was due to the inaction of Congress, they were warned several times from 2001 to 2008. The housing bubble was due to the inaction of Congress, they were warned several times from 2001 to 2008.

]]> By: Duros62 http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168222 Duros62 Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:03:22 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168222 <i>Their net worth takes a hit even though they don’t see it, they have a new check to write every month to finance it,</i> Yeah, and? That's kind of how capitalism in this country works. The Cash for clunkers program was a test ride and was wildly successful. It was what FDR would have done to try anything to a) spur the economy, b) help out the auto industry and c) get more fuel efficiency on the road. People who are quoting Steve Douchy and saying it was all a massive Fail are liars. Their net worth takes a hit even though they don’t see it, they have a new check to write every month to finance it,

Yeah, and? That’s kind of how capitalism in this country works.

The Cash for clunkers program was a test ride and was wildly successful. It was what FDR would have done to try anything to a) spur the economy, b) help out the auto industry and c) get more fuel efficiency on the road.
People who are quoting Steve Douchy and saying it was all a massive Fail are liars.

]]> By: jr http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168208 jr Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:56:42 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168208 "We have found that killing Arabs is a good use of tax money"-Heritage Foundation “We have found that killing Arabs is a good use of tax money”-Heritage Foundation

]]> By: Dennis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168202 Dennis Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:22:06 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168202 Greenspan was big enough to admit his model was flawed, basically the same model being employed in the Cash for Clunkers program of rewarding bad behavior. Or if not bad behavior, certainly not the most prudent. At least he's someone who learned something from the painful lesson we all just got, unlike the comedian Jon Stewart. The Clunkers Program incentivizes people to trade in a slowly depreciating, paid-up asset, to take on more debt to buy the shinier, newer, more rapidly depreciating asset that gets a little better gas mileage. Their net worth takes a hit even though they don't see it, they have a new check to write every month to finance it, and the government completely junks the old cars. Maybe it's not pushing on a string, but it's little more than moving the string up a little. People buy cars now, but in the end, they don't buy more cars. Greenspan was big enough to admit his model was flawed, basically the same model being employed in the Cash for Clunkers program of rewarding bad behavior. Or if not bad behavior, certainly not the most prudent. At least he’s someone who learned something from the painful lesson we all just got, unlike the comedian Jon Stewart.

The Clunkers Program incentivizes people to trade in a slowly depreciating, paid-up asset, to take on more debt to buy the shinier, newer, more rapidly depreciating asset that gets a little better gas mileage. Their net worth takes a hit even though they don’t see it, they have a new check to write every month to finance it, and the government completely junks the old cars.

Maybe it’s not pushing on a string, but it’s little more than moving the string up a little. People buy cars now, but in the end, they don’t buy more cars.

]]> By: Buzz Killington http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168194 Buzz Killington Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:33:49 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168194 Bruce, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem Bruce, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

]]> By: Parthenon http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168186 Parthenon Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:48:43 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168186 Until very recently, the government's incentives <a href="http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/car-guide-2005/SUV-taxes1.asp" rel="nofollow">were tilted toward SUVs,</a> to the tune of 1000s of dollars. This program is a HUGE step in the right direction. What a load that article is. People will wait for government rebates before making a purchase? Please. People (if they have any sense) realize you can't wait for once-in-a-blue-moon deals. Until very recently, the government’s incentives were tilted toward SUVs, to the tune of 1000s of dollars. This program is a HUGE step in the right direction.

What a load that article is. People will wait for government rebates before making a purchase? Please. People (if they have any sense) realize you can’t wait for once-in-a-blue-moon deals.

]]> By: Dennis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168180 Dennis Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:31:45 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168180 <blockquote>Buzz, I don’t think “ad hominem” means what you think it means.</blockquote> Everything about the blog post is ad hominem, Bruce, including the title. How is it not? There isn't one sentence that refutes Greenspan's argument against the Cash for Clunkers program, and there isn't a counterargument that says anything positive in favor of it, either. It's just solely an attack on Greenspan. We assume Oliver disagrees with his argument, but he doesn't tell us why there's a flaw in his reasoning, other than to remind us of his past economic record. Pretty much classic ad hominem. Attack the person who is referred to who proposes the argument in an attempt to discredit the argument.

Buzz, I don’t think “ad hominem” means what you think it means.

Everything about the blog post is ad hominem, Bruce, including the title. How is it not?

There isn’t one sentence that refutes Greenspan’s argument against the Cash for Clunkers program, and there isn’t a counterargument that says anything positive in favor of it, either. It’s just solely an attack on Greenspan. We assume Oliver disagrees with his argument, but he doesn’t tell us why there’s a flaw in his reasoning, other than to remind us of his past economic record.

Pretty much classic ad hominem. Attack the person who is referred to who proposes the argument in an attempt to discredit the argument.

]]> By: Bruce Henry http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168173 Bruce Henry Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:53:22 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168173 Buzz, I don't think "ad hominem" means what you think it means. Buzz, I don’t think “ad hominem” means what you think it means.

]]> By: Buzz Killington http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168171 Buzz Killington Tue, 04 Aug 2009 11:35:37 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168171 Straight to ad hominem, eh? Well at least it was quick. Straight to ad hominem, eh? Well at least it was quick.

]]> By: Jaim http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168160 Jaim Tue, 04 Aug 2009 08:02:51 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168160 Not unlike Bush taking credit for "keeping America safe" after allowing 9/11 to happen, you can't separate Greenspan's legacy from the disastrous Bush Recession. I'm not saying the guy's a complete idiot, but his Randian free-market principles were castigated by the US economy ca. 2007-2008. Dicey re-packaging of shitty credit was the ultimate act of free market hubris. Markets need regulation to work. Not unlike Bush taking credit for “keeping America safe” after allowing 9/11 to happen, you can’t separate Greenspan’s legacy from the disastrous Bush Recession.

I’m not saying the guy’s a complete idiot, but his Randian free-market principles were castigated by the US economy ca. 2007-2008.

Dicey re-packaging of shitty credit was the ultimate act of free market hubris. Markets need regulation to work.

]]> By: somejackass http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/08/04/your-expert-is-a-little-flawed/#comment-168145 somejackass Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:05:42 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=15898#comment-168145 Greenspan is no Rumsfeld. He's still one of the smartest minds in modern capitalism, and he had a long track record of success, respected by both parties, until this bubble burst. It's worth listening to what he says - as long as you don't take it as gospel. What annoys me about the cash for clunkers thing is the environmental aspect - we're really just giving people a couple of grand to throw away their current car. http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2009/07/congress_just_buying_people_ca.cfm Greenspan is no Rumsfeld. He’s still one of the smartest minds in modern capitalism, and he had a long track record of success, respected by both parties, until this bubble burst. It’s worth listening to what he says – as long as you don’t take it as gospel. What annoys me about the cash for clunkers thing is the environmental aspect – we’re really just giving people a couple of grand to throw away their current car.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2009/07/congress_just_buying_people_ca.cfm

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