GOP birther concentration focuses on the south. At some point these yahoos are going to try and get “Dixie” as the national anthem and replace the currency with confederate dollars.
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The South Is Source Of GOP Rot
July 31st, 2009
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It’s almost as though the Birther Movement (BM) is the latest incarnation of the Southern Strategy. Nah. They’d never…no way…can’t be…
For a crazy, demonstrably false, racist idea, these are discouraging numbers.
OK, OK, it’s crazy … But why add “racist” On what facts?
The Wall Street Journal (Best of the Web) had a great piece on how the National Review “excommunicated” the John Birch Society from their ranks.
Included in that piece was the fact that little was made of this (the birth issue) when the issue was raised, for the first time, by the Clinton Campaign — yes, the Clinton campaign.
Now you want to saddle the Republicans with these benighted folks. The other day, when they voted on the Hawaii memorial resolution, there were 35 Democrats not voting, and only 21 Republicans not voting. Yet that indicated Republican craziness.
If the Republicans play this right, the “anti-birthers” might come out looking crazier than the “birthers”.
The Wall Street Journal (BOTW) pointed out that even if they get their day in court, all the evidence needed to prove that Pres Obama was born in Hawaii exists, and has been exhibited. As we discussed yesterday, all the evidence that the WTC was destroyed by two airplanes has been exhibited. Yet no one is chasing “truthers” around with video cameras.
A few minutes ago, someone suggested that Pres Bush “cheated his way” into the White House, not once , but TWICE!
What do we do next? “My crazies are less crazy than your crazies?”
The Wall Street Journal (Best of the Web) had a great piece on how the National Review “excommunicated” the John Birch Society from their ranks.
Wow. Too racist even for the wildly racist William F. “Why the South Must Prevail” Buckley. That’s something.
how the National Review “excommunicated” the John Birch Society from their ranks.
*wink, wink, nudge nudge*
As a southerner, and a Republican I’m deeply offended.
You should be.
You’re deeply offended by two polls showing that the vast majority of birthers are southern Republicans, and that more than half of Republicans seem to have doubts about Obama’s citizenship?
I would be too, were I you. I might even insist that my party publicly repudiate all of these doubts and conspiracy theories, and anyone who happens to be perpetuating them.
The difference between the birthers and the truthers is that the truthers never constituted more than a small fringe part of self-identified Democrats, while the birthers appear to constitute at least a significant plurality of self-identified Republicans.
Big surprise there coming from ol Dixie. They are a bit slow with things. It took Alabama until 2000 to repeal the law that forbid interracial marriage.
Of course it has to do with racism. It’s about fear of the unknown/other. They think he is ‘the other’ to be feared because he is different.
Conservatives don’t embrace change, they seek to maintain the status quo. They like to keep things the way they are.
The old racist fucks are getting old and dying off and the new generations don’t share their sentiments. These good old boys are seeing their 1957 portrait of America disappear forever and they aint too happy about it.
Frank,
I would not be surprised at all that the original “birthers” were the Clinton campaign. They were appealing to Appalacian and Southern Democrats. I might also mention that you presuppose a bias which you’ve fought strenuously to oppose in the past. Your logic inherently assumes that Republicans are racists and Democrats are not. I agree with that bias and am happy to see that you do as well.
These good old boys are seeing their 1957 portrait of America disappear forever and they ain’t too happy about it.
Exactly.
http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55562
OMGZ teh inside jobzzzz!
Yah. Gabe, we know. They’re fucking nuts. And mostly voted for Ron Paul.
But thanks for your concern.
I will go on record as saying that 9/11 was a conspiracy, though. An Al Qaeda conspiracy.
So 61% of Democrats either think Bush knew about 9/11, or they “don’t know”, and they all voted for Ron Paul??
That isn’t even close to what the story says.
WND link:
According to a national telephone survey of 1,000 adults, conducted by Rasmussen Reports from April 30 to May 1, 2007, 35 percent of Democrats believe Bush knew, 39 percent believe he didn’t and 26 percent say they aren’t sure.
I’m gonna go ahead and question their numbers right now.
From the Scripps link:
More than a third of the American public suspects that federal officials assisted in the 9/11 terrorist attacks or took no action to stop them so the United States could go to war in the Middle East, according to a new Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll.
The national survey of 1,010 adults also found that anger against the federal government is at record levels, with 54 percent saying they “personally are more angry” at the government than they used to be.
You wanna try that again, sparky?
Vague warnings! Bush did it.
Still wanna see where you get 61% of Democrats, there, Uncle Gabby.
35% think Bush “knew” + 26 “don’t know”= 61%.
Sure the question is vague, but I think it’s fair to say there are quite a few nutters in the Dem. party.
I might also mention that you presuppose a bias which you’ve fought strenuously to oppose in the past. Your logic inherently assumes that Republicans are racists and Democrats are not. I agree with that bias and am happy to see that you do as well.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. It would not surprise me to find out that rich Republicans and rich Democrats have racists in their midst. If I have any “bias” at all, it is this: I do not automatically accept Democrats as “friends of minorities”, nor do I see Republicans as “the enemy of minorities”.
Don’t put words in my mouth by saying that I assume that Republicans are racists. I made an assertion that it was Clinton supporters who started the “birther” mythology. Neither you, nor any other commenter has linked that assertion to racism, even by a tangential reference to geography.
I think there may be some conflation of “bush was given a general warning about AQ plans” and “bush knew in advance what was going to happen” in there.
Frank, I know this concept is not too clever for you. Your post assumes it newsworthy that Clinton operatives first tried to popularize the idea that Obama wasn’t a naturally born American. It is not newsworthy because she was going after the same undereducated, bitter whites that southern Republicans bait. Sure, they might not ALL be racists. It is pure accident that all their sheets have eye holes…
Zadura, don’t try to tell me that all southerners have in common is racism. There is a fierce patriotism that, yes, occasionally bleeds over onto nativism or even jingoism.
But to make it seem that every appeal to the South addresses a streak of racism is simplistic and unfair.
It became news worthy after Pres Obama was elected, because it made Republicans look ridiculous. Surely that concept is not too clever for you.
All you commenters here who have been casually stereotyping the South, need to read Richard M Weaver’s The Southern Tradition At Bay.
People really overblow the “south is racist!!” deal. Of course there are racists here. There are racists everywhere. Never gonna get rid of it completely. But most people are decent and not racist. Frankly, it’s pretty digusting especially when it comes from people who live in states where the minority populations are small. In the south, many states have high black american, and hispanic american populations, so there’s a lot more interaction between the races.
Gabriel, I am sure you speak from experience given that you are in Arizona. Same with Frank, a Yankee.
There are decent people in the south, fine. That doesn’t excuse the fact that there is a disproportionate representation of people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya. Are these people racist? Almost by definition.
Well, I think the difficulty the pops up when discussing race and the South is the topic of voting patterns. In Mississippi, it’s most evident, with around 88-90+ percent of black voters voting for Obama, and around 84-88% of white voters voting for McCain. Kinda hard to explain that away, considering even Oklahoma’s white voters didn’t go for McCain by that kind of margin.
Totally off topic, but where the hell did News Reference go?
Zadura, I have made many trips to the south – I have relatives there. I spent two years in Texas in the Army – Texas is the South on steroids !
Stop trying to throw that “slider” by me : make a real connection between a “disproportionate representation of people who believe that Obama was born in Kenya” and the possibility that they are racist. If they believed he was born on the moon would that make them “xenobiophobic”?
I’m not from Arizona. Split my time in NC & SC….I’m a southerner. But not THAT kind of southerner.
Totally off topic, but where the hell did News Reference go?
Probably playing pinochle on Mars with c.s. strowbridge and amused observer.
I’m a yankee but have lots of relatives in the deep deep south. Spend a lot of time there. A lot of the lingering race issues are generational. There are a lot of white folks who remember the civil rights years are wha are good decent people and would not intentionally discriminate against anyone of any color, but there’s still an undercurrent of feeling left over from those days when the whole rest of the country stood up and told them that the way they lived their lives was wrong. That sort of thing does tend to stick with one, and it makes them reflexively skeptical of anything that suggests they haven’t given up enough already to the blacks and other minorities. The under-forties are different. Ten or fifteen years from now Alabama and Mississippi will be blue – or at least more receptive to policy trends that we currently associate with the dems. Texas will be too. With the added element of immigration in texas, both from south of the border and from elsewhere in the country, things have been very volatile. When you see it going from Anne Richards and Jim Hightower to GW Bush and Rick Perry, that looks like going in the wrong direction, but overall I think it’s just a symptom of the volatility, like the last thrash of a dying alligator. Texas will be very interesting to watch in the coming years.
I don’t think its fair to say that the South is the source of GOP rot. The rot in the GOP rests solely on the shoulders of its leadership, which has, for decades, taken advantage of the disaffection and lingering racism of some white southerners. They have done a masterful job of translating that disaffection into an “us vs. them” mentality, which is made all the easier by the scapegoating of the south by some in the northeast for all of the cultural and racial problems that linger in this country.
A lot of my fellow Southerners have a “fierce patriotism” that in fact manifests itself as anti-federalism or secessionism. Odd, that.
This is kind of getting it backwards, though — the GOP strategy, post-Civil-Rights, was specifically using the increasing strength of Republicans among white conservatives in the South and populist West on which to build national victories.
This isn’t something which grew out of the South, per se, but which was chosen as the national victory strategy of the GOP for the last 40 years — so now that they’ve gotten what they wanted, they should be happy with it.
Suborned in the USA
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.
Andrew C. McCarthy
….The point has little to do with whether Obama was born in Hawaii. I’m quite confident that he was. The issue is: What is the true personal history of the man who has been sold to us based on nothing but his personal history? On that issue, Obama has demonstrated himself to be an unreliable source and, sadly, we can’t trust the media to get to the bottom of it. What’s wrong with saying, to a president who promised unprecedented “transparency”: Give us all the raw data and we’ll figure it out for ourselves?
——–
Excellent article, left or right.
Must reading.
I don’t really see the “birthers” as fundamentally racist.
Instead, the phenomenon shows that the Right has constructed an alternate reality that they are emerging from less and less frequently.
The 28% of the nation that self-identifies as Republican really believes that they are the majority. They tell themselves (and each other) that, if they only return to their “core principles”, those who abandoned the Party will come rushing back.
All of the evidence to prove the “birthers” wrong is already available. The COLB is the preferred document to prove U.S. citizenship. I was unable to get a U.S. passport with my “long form” certificate because it wasn’t certified. I had to have the County generate a certified COLB, which is what Obama has produced.
What this means is the Republican Party will be increasingly isolated and unable to appeal to voters outside of the South, because what “works” in the South fails elsewhere. Rather than becoming a rallying point, the alternate reality of the Right has become a “shibboleth” that marks them as firmly outside of the national discourse.
35% think Bush “knew” + 26 “don’t know”= 61%.
Sorry, not buying that shit.
35% think Bush “knew” + 26% “don’t know”= 35%
And I don’t care who you know.
I think it’s fair to say there are quite a few nutters in the Dem. party.
Yup. Pretty much anywhere there are people? There are gonna be nutters.
I’m not from Arizona. Split my time in NC & SC….I’m a southerner. But not THAT kind of southerner.
Arizona and points west is more like the “nouveau South.”
Suborned in the USA
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.
Andrew C. McCarthy
Here you go, Denny.
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s
honestyskin color, not where he was born.Fixt.
And whoever had 1 August, 12:29 pm as when Britney-Dennis would officially come out as a Birther, please pick up your winnings at the front desk.
Indeed will always have that race card that he’s got stashed conveniently at the bottom of his deck.
Indeed, the urban legend truther.
Duros: Yup. Pretty much anywhere there are people? There are gonna be nutters.
Indeed. And a key thing to note is whether a particular group considers those nutters part of their base.
Please, Indeed, tell me where you have established, deduced, inferred, or even sensed a connection\ between racism and birthers.
I’ll give you a head start: Pres Obama’s Dad was born in Kenya, and is black.
Go!
Please, Indeed, tell me where you have established, deduced, inferred, or even sensed a connection\ between racism and birthers.
Will this do?
Now stop farting around, Frank. Sheesh. If we said “water is wet” you would say “prove it”.
The COLB is the preferred document to prove U.S. citizenship.
And that, in a nutshell, is why Dennis, Frank, and anyone else who claims that Obama is being “less than transparent” is full of crap. We’ve gone through two international adoptions, during which my spouse and I each had to prove our citizenship to not one but two governments, both of whom required the short-form, certified birth certificate. You know, the exact same form Obama has released. Which has been certified by the Hawaiian Sec’y of State.
So, not it’s not about “transparency” fer chrissakes. Occam’s razor would suggest we look at the simplest, most obvious reason this sillly controversy won’t die. And the simplest, most obvious reason the birthers refuse to accept the COLB issued by the state of Hawaii is that Obama had a foreign father who was – gasp! – black and Muslim. Anyone who argues otherwise is being either obtuse or disingenuous.
Here’s another one
These are the cretins that the Republicans don’t dare to alienate.
And again:
http://www.******mania.net/forum/******-president-barack-hussein-obama/32481-dobbs-tells-******-roland-martin-pipe-down-during-obama-birth-debate.html
If you’ve got the stomach for it, substitute a six-letter racial epithet beginning with ‘n’ for the asterisks.
But someone called Michelle Malkin ‘wide-eye’ so hey, both sides have their racists.
SQ, I’m not going to say something like, ‘hey, I just posted the article, don’t call me full of crap’, but I won’t provide you or anyone else with that excuse. The article makes some valid points, and it’s not crap to say that Obama has been less than transparent about a whole host of things. It’s also a valid point to ask why he hasn’t gotten near the scrutiny about much of his past that Sarah Palin has, a woman who was not running for President and who is now a private citizen.
Twice, Wilbur. Ask yourself honestly….why twice?
It’s also a valid point to ask why he hasn’t gotten near the scrutiny about much of his past that Sarah Palin has
That’s easy, because Obama’s past is just plain boring. People have tried and tried to find something scandalous about it and the conclusion always ends up being “ho hum”.
In contrast, Sarah Palin is the wacky gift that keeps on delivering the wack.
Twice! Twice!!!!! Not only Twice! but Back! And to the left!!
Maybe people call Michelle “wide-eyed” because her eyes bug out like Pamela Anderson’s ta-ta’s when she’s in full froth mode. Has nothing to do with her race, whatever that race might be.
Now might someone without a racist bone in their body still put any credence in the birfer nonsense? Possibly, but since there is no longer any rational reason for doing so one must ask what irrational motivation might be skewing people’s perception of the evidence. Racism may not be the only such irrational motivation, but as the links I’ve provided prove, is certainly is one for many birfer freak-jobs. Given the high incidence of racists thought among birfers, I recommend, Dennis, that if you spout birfer claptrap, you include a disclaimer stating that you completely repudiate any racist rationale for scrutinizing Obama’s birf. Otherwise a rational observer might form a reasonable, if not air-tight, presumption that you yourself are a racist asshole.
Go ahead, Dennis, tell us what you think of your fellow “conservatives” at stormfront, etc.
he hasn’t gotten near the scrutiny about much of his past that Sarah Palin has
I haven’t seen Sarah Palin’s birth certificate. And, in fact, I didn’t even think to ask.
Frank, if you want to call the class of southerners who happen to be Republican and birthers, “xenophobic” rather than racist, I’ll bite. I will also add anti-science, anti-intellectual, non-rational and unamerican. But CERTAINLY not racist…
The South rose to power on the Southern Strategy, beginning with Nixon in the late 60’s and coming to fruition under Reagan with Lee Atwater at the helm.
It appears that the Grand Old Party will die by the same sword.
I couldn’t be happier to see it. There is no constituency in this country more deserving of backwater status than southern white conservatives.
Gee, Zadura, one might suspect you have a bias against southerners that is overloaded with stereotypes that are nearly a half century old.
You probably think they go to the bathroom outside in sheds with quarter moons carved in the door.
The birth-certificate controversy is about Obama’s honesty, not where he was born.
Only if you are claiming that he wasn’t born in Hawaii. If he WAS, then he has been honest about it.
There is an easy way to determine where Obama was born, one that doesn’t require a Birth Certificate. Check his mother’s passport files at the State Department, and determine what country she was in on August 4, 1961.
This may have been one of the reasons his passport file was illegally entered during the campaign by “temporary workers” (oppo research) at State.
“Texas is the South on steroids !”
Nope! I’ve done my time in Texas, too, as well as many other southern stops (AL, NC, VA). TX ain’t the South at all. For one, those idiots think ‘barbeque’ is beef.
“Big surprise there coming from ol Dixie”
Actually, I think it may be worse than the charts are showing. I’m assuming that the ‘South’ includes Obama states NC and VA. I think it’s reasonable to believe (and subjective reading here in NC) that the NC perception of this is closer to the rest of the country, same with VA (Cantor notwithstanding). I suspect Florida, even with all that, would be mostly the same. So take NC and VA (both good-sized states) from the definition of the South in the polls, and the rest of them are majority birthers. GA, TN, AL, MS, AK, KY, SC, TX and all their little friends? Pretty much birther central. Well over 50%, I’d bet.
Dennis: he hasn’t gotten near the scrutiny about much of his past that Sarah Palin has, a woman who was not running for President
She was running mate to a 72 year old man who had a history of some health problems. It would be only reasonable to see a possibility that he’d die or become ill. That she’d become president or exercise the functions of the office.
and who is now a private citizen.
As of 6 days ago.
Sean , I have seen a laundry list of items / documents missing from his past. I suspect that if he couldn’t produce those items in a background investigation for the military, for example, he couldn’t get a Top Secret clearance.
Is he some sort of embedded “Manchurian Candidate” ? I guess not.
Is he the poster child for “transparent government”? Not even close. I don’t know what the truth is , but I’ll bet he believes that if all that stuff had been revealed, he would never have been elected . And THAT is dishonest.
Frank, I despise ignorance everywhere. The south isn’t so bad, especially the places where Northerners and Westerners have moved in like Research Triangle. Get outside of that, and it is only government largesse that separates them from outhouses with moons on the door.
Frank DiSalle: Sean , I have seen a laundry list of items / documents missing from his past.
And Joe McCarthy had in his hand a list of names.
Sean , stop trying to be clever , and face facts. Many, many documents that are ordinarily available in a person’s life are missing from his.
There is absolutely no connection between the list of names that Sen McCarthy claimed to hold in his hand, and all the documentation that should be available from Pres Obama’s past which is missing:
Occidental College records
Columbia College records
Columbia Thesis paper
Harvard College records
Selective Service Registration
Medical records
Illinois State Senate records
Illinois State Senate schedule
Law practice client list
Harvard Law Review articles that were published
University of Chicago scholarly articles
Record of baptism
Many of the people identified by McCarthy as foreign agents turned out to be … foreign agents. Perhaps you have heard of the Venona documents?
You know damn well, if a similarly (non) vetted Republican candidate tried to run for President, volcanoes would be rising from the Times building.
The south isn’t so bad, especially the places where Northerners and Westerners have moved in like Research Triangle. Get outside of that, and it is only government largesse that separates them from outhouses with moons on the door.
Well, thank y’all very much for moving down here and saving us all. We just don’ know where’d we’d be without y’alls kind intervention to save us from our ignoramous ways. You done brought us indoor plumbing! Dang!
zadura, here’s a hint: bigotry is still ugly when spouted by a progressive.
Frank, you guys keep fighting the good fight until you find out how the President did in Sociology.
Parthenon, I don’t care . Pres Obama will not be re-elected. You should care that your candidate couldn’t be a Military Policeman, because he couldn’t get the necessary clearance. And, one day, this nonchalance about a candidate’s qualifications will turn around and bite you.
So what do you call guys like Dennis and Frank who think they’re too smart to be identified with the birther-lunatic fringe of the GOP yet keep raising the same issues that have already been debunked?
Birthers.
Good luck in 2012 fellas!
“Pres Obama will not be re-elected.”
Yes he will. In a landslide.
Or to phrase it another way, just who in the hell does the GOP have as a viable candidate for 2012? And no, your wet dreams about Sarah Palin don’t count. 60% of the country know she’s a fruit loop. Romney? DOA. The fundies won’t allow it.
Barring a major terrorist attack Obama’s a lock. The Bush Recession is winding down, and while things might not be as good economically was they were under Clinton, they’ll be a hell of a lot better than they were under Bush II (which isn’t saying much, I’ll admit).
Pres Obama will not be re-elected.
Depends almost entirely upon whether the economy improves, of course. If it does, Romney/Pawlenty/Jindal/Palin (I even typed that last without laughing) will be blown off the map. If it doesn’t, you’d be correct.
You should care that your candidate couldn’t be a Military Policeman, because he couldn’t get the necessary clearance.
I suppose I’m more concerned about whether he can be president, which evidently he can, since none of the institutions you mentioned has been ordered to release said documents, to my knowledge.
And by the way, ‘record of baptism?’ Ooh, what a shadowy character!
And, one day, this nonchalance about a candidate’s qualifications will turn around and bite you.
Meh, I doubt it. The President wasn’t my first choice in the primaries (that would have been Gov. Richardson), mostly due to his relative inexperience. That didn’t mean he wasn’t light years ahead of Sen. McCain, though.
Seriously, what relevance do his selective service registration and record of baptism hold for you?
Frank DiSalle wrote:
“You know damn well, if a similarly (non) vetted Republican candidate tried to run for President, volcanoes would be rising from the Times building.”
“W” squelched a biography indicating he used cocaine on a regular basis for several years. His military records were never made available. Likewise, investigations into his academic career mysteriously went nowhere, as his former professors clammed up or offered nothing more than statements previously cleared by the campaign. Who has seen The Decider’s military discharge? Nobody knows much at all about what he did in his National Guard stint.
Instead of “volcanoes rising”, the MSM was complacent.
You should care that your candidate couldn’t be a Military Policeman, because he couldn’t get the necessary clearance.
In that case it’s a good thing the president is held to a lower standard. We seem to have plenty of military police, but we were short on presidents for about eight years.
Is there something an MP can see with his “clearance” that the president can’t?
Pres Obama will not be re-elected.
Who do you see beating him?
Who do you see beating him?
And what grade did they get in Sociology?
Well, thank y’all very much for moving down here and saving us all.
I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.
You should care that your candidate couldn’t be a Military Policeman, because he couldn’t get the necessary clearance.
They must have some pretty tough clearance requirements if you can be President, but not an MP.
Frank DiSalle: Sean , stop trying to be clever
Better then insisting on being stupid.
all the documentation that should be available from Pres Obama’s past which is missing:
Occidental College records
Columbia College records
Columbia Thesis paper
Harvard College records
Selective Service Registration
Medical records
Illinois State Senate records
Illinois State Senate schedule
Law practice client list
Harvard Law Review articles that were published
University of Chicago scholarly articles
Record of baptism
Has he managed to burn all 4000+ copies of each issue of the Harvard Review so that none of the articles that were published exist at all anymore? His record of baptism??? You going to make religion a requirement for office now? And you didn’t include on your list that nobody’s been able to find that clay asjtray he made in 2nd grade.
Without agreeing that any of those records are “missing”, where is it required that a President have college records which show good grades or that particular courses were taken.
Oh, right. It isn’t.
I suspect that if he couldn’t produce those items in a background investigation for the military, for example, he couldn’t get a Top Secret clearance.
Hey, dumbass: to get a TS clearance, you need to produce a birth certificate of the sort of Obama has provided.
The sort of background check that Obama would be subjected to as part of a clearance application are actually similar to the kind of thing that goes on during a presidential campaign: talking to your friends, neighbors, relatives to see if there’s anything sketchy going on.
THat’s why I laugh at the people screaming over Obama’s birth certificate: I know exactly what kind of documents you need to produce for clearance purposes, and all of the stuff you’ve seen are sufficient to pass muster with the federal government. The hardest of the hardcore birthers are just a bunch of people who have never gone through that process and never done anything like that.
all the documentation that should be available from Pres Obama’s past which is missing:
…
Harvard Law Review articles that were published
University of Chicago scholarly articles
You know what’s hilarious, here? If there are any articles that you want access to, you can just look them up! They’re not “missing.” Anything he wrote for the law review or any other law journals are publicly available.
My understanding is that Obama just didn’t leave himself open to scrutiny by publishing a lot.
Tyro, calling me names only demonstrates that what I believe to be true about you, is true about you.
Do you really think that you can get a Top Secret clearance when you have lived a document – free life?
Try walking into a Bank with a birth certificate and a smile, and see how how much money you can borrow.
There is no one — no one — stupider, than a big mouth who is so blamed ignorant that he can rant and rave when he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. And, as a person who has been investigated by the Feds for two different clearances, that would not be me.
No, Tyro, you are a dumbass.
There is absolutely no reason why those documents are not available. Oh, yes, I know, they don’t matter, and who cares we only wanted a President. So I guess if he wandered in from the desert, and lost a shoe in the water — oh, wait, that’s the other Messiah.
Why won’t Pres Obama be re-elected ? Because, unlike Pres Clinton, he isn’t smart enough to stay in the center, where the people who voted for him came from. Pres Notbush is driven to do leftist things because, like a parent who was abused as a child, they don’t know what else to do, even if it is wrong.
Toss several hundred billion dollars in the air, and then, before it even “hits the ground”, try to institute a multi – billion health that rearranges our whole national health system? What else is there to say? And yet, there are people around him saying we may have to spend a like amount of money once more. I say just give everyone $25,000 worth of food stamps and be done with it.
The politics of personal destruction continues apace. It’s lovely to see what our wingnut friends are eager to waste our time on at a time of national emergency.
Really Frank, honestly curious: Why does it bother you that the President’s record of baptism isn’t publicly available?
Do you really think that you can get a Top Secret clearance when you have lived a document – free life?
They actually prefer that. Less for them to have to check up on.
It’s kind of funny, Frank: you have no idea what you’re talking about. I know what kind of documents you have to submit to get a passport, a license, or a security clearance, and it’s why I knew the caterwauling over Obama’s birth certificate was bullshit: because the documents you see for his birth certificate are the normal, everyday documentation you provide for such things (and, interestingly, something I’ve never seen from other candidates).
And, seriously, you think Obama is “hiding” his law review and law journal articles? The entire point of those journals is to make them publicly available to all everyone. You’re a rank idiot who doesn’t know what he’s talking about: just like most of these anti-Obama ranters: people who’ve never done anything, never been anywhere, and don’t know anything. They’re just a bunch of people who’ve been fed talking points and are repeating them without any knowledge or wisdom– mindless automatons substituting talking points for a lifetime of ignorance.
Frank: you have no idea what goes into security clearance. You have no idea what law journals are all about. You never bothered to look at Obama’s track record at all. Why on earth do you think that your opinions are to be taken seriously when you’re clearly a man of such limited understanding and experience? You think that simply because you’re some old idiot with an anti-Obama opinion entitles you to be taken seriously? You’ve made a bunch of rank-ignorant claims that could only come from someone of such stunningly limited intellect and knowledge that you cannot possibly be regarded as someone with a political opinion worth considering. Where do you get off telling Obama what he should and shouldn’t do? You’ve seen his birth certificate, which he offerred only to quiet the deranged screams of angry, deranged right-wing ignoramuses like yourself, and you still won’t calm down over it while you frothingly demand to see his baptism certificated. It makes me think that you and many right wingers are just delusional, ignorant cranks… a culture encouraged by your broken ideology.
Southern Quaker, not really concerned about being diplomatic on this point. The South receives significantly more in government money than they pay. It has been this way since WWI. The South tends to have the worst schools, worst health statistics, and highest poverty rates. You SHOULD keep hoping that Northerners bail you out. It actually results in job growth and opportunity. But outside of that, there is still a rather intolerant, xenophobic, anti-intellectual element. It does not surprise me at all that the birther movement would take root in the South. Does it really surprise you?
Many, many documents that are ordinarily available in a person’s life are missing from his.
We’ll set aside the question of how you know these records are “missing.” You include in your list a variety of scholastic and medical records. These are not records that are “ordinarily available.” They’re ordinarily not.
Parthenon: Why pick that document? Is his college work less important? His theses? His Senate papers?
Why should it be be a surprise to you that people that are not open and above board about their past are magnets for suspicion? Do you honestly believe that everyone in American judges political candidates by their published platforms? That there is no non-rational element in it? Didn’t someone mention Pres Bush’s discharge paper up above? Why should that matter, if all this other stuff of Pres Obama’s doesn’t?
I am merely playing the devil’s advocate. I knew enough about Pres Obama to think he would be a terrible President. I have learned nothing new to change my mind. he could have been born in Andorra, for all I care.
Toro: Yeah, yeah, yeah; blah, blah, blah; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Southern Quaker, not really concerned about being diplomatic on this point.
Yes, I kind of guessed that much.
But outside of that, there is still a rather intolerant, xenophobic, anti-intellectual element.
And there is likewise an element of rude, arrogant, assholes in the Northeast. You generalized the behavior of a “subset” of the population to paint all Southerners as ignorant, racist hillbillies. That’s bigotry, son.
And what’s more it’s not helpful. It gives the rest of the country a bye – just blame the inbred hicks in the south, it makes you feel good and it’s a hell of a lot easier than trying to address the real issues.
Didn’t someone mention Pres Bush’s discharge paper up above?
See, that’s the thing Frank: during the elections there was a lot of stuff about Bush’s discharge papers, his drinking, his sketchy academic record. After the election, though, I think you’d have to look long and hard to find a major liberal organ analogous to NRO on the right that spent a lot of time on this personal bullshit. We were content to criticise his conduct in office. But you, you freaks just can’t give it up. If it’s not where’s his birth certificate it’s did he actually have his own secretary when he worked in NYC, or was he a Muslim when he was six years old. You guys are sick!
Toro: Yeah, yeah, yeah; blah, blah, blah; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Shorter Frank: don’t tell me what I don’t want to hear.
Southern Quaker, it is nothing to me to be called a rude and arrogant asshole. It is my strong preference to cordiality and self-deception.
I will ask the question again: Are you surprised that there is correlation between birthers and Southerners? I suspect you weren’t and neither was I, because it feeds into historical pattern of racism and xenophobia.
Likewise, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit that the greatest concentration of “truthers” is in the West where there is a strong bias against the Federal government.
Is that bigotry? Not really. That’s reality.
Toro: Yeah, yeah, yeah; blah, blah, blah; yadda, yadda, yadda.
Shorter Frank: don’t tell me what I don’t want to hear.
Actually, more like “Don’t talk to me about something which you are apparently in no position to judge”
I felt no need to be contentious. But since you have jumped in, I say the same to you. Writing longer insulting passages with an occasional polysyllabic word does not make it any more useful. Toro’s comments to me have been, in the main, about 1% refutation and 99% excoriation. Excuse me if I don’t find that valuable. To simply contradict me (”I know about security clearances; you don’t”) is not extremely valuable. They are not “easier” because there is “less to check”. Intuitively, even an idiot would be suspicious of a background with no paper trail, let alone a trained investigator.
But, Wilbur, if it brightens your day to support the likes of chum like Toro, feel free. Everyone needs to feel better than someone.
…and your last post was 100% whine and 0% substance.