Clearly President Obama has dropped a bit in the approval polls, but I don’t see it as anything to worry about. I frankly lay more of the blame for this at the feet of Sen. Reid and Sen. Baucus whose dithering has caused the delay in passage of health care reform. If there’s any fault by the President its in not pushing on congress hard enough (they seem to have taken too much of a lesson from President Clinton’s fight with this), though at the end of the day I think we will have a bill (though not a great one) that will be signed.
I think the poll of polls is a bit skewed because it includes wonky numbers from Rasmussen and Zogby, but yes its down to about 52%… more than double Bush’s approval, so while Obama’s numbers are down we are legions away from a presidency that appealed to only zealots.
Here’s what I said before:
My guess is that President Obama will average out somewhere from 55-60%, though I of course hope for the highest possible rating.
I do hope the president sends a thank you card to Reid for making life difficult.
I think a bigger problem is that, as someone pointed out on the News Hour yesterday, he is being put on the defensive as far as health care reform is concerned. The narrative that people will lose coverage, small businesses will be bankrupted, and old people will be set adrift on icebergs is starting to take hold. The facts that the stimulus money is coming in drips and drabs and this may be a jobless recovery in the short run aren’t helping.
Yeah, I’m frankly not super-worried about the right wing noise taking super strong hold.
I’m not one that places a lot of stock in polls, but when you do look at polls like Rasmussen, the number that can’t be ignored is the eye-popping 40% Strongly Disapprove number.
You can try to blame Reid for some of the recent ’speed-bumps’ but 40% Strong Disapproval numbers aren’t Reid’s fault.
Acknowledging faults is hard, but this is a start. Plus, approval ratings are largely out of the control of the President. If people’s own lives (re: the economy) are good, they are happy, and vice-versa. It’s not just, but that’s the reality.
I can’t help imagining what Obama’s approval numbers would be without the inherited recession, without the disgusting Bush legacy on so many fronts, the long trail of ruin he left us. A shame that Obama’s initiatives are so crippled by Bush’s disasters, but they are.
Health care reform would be a lot more popular, and easier to pass, if we didn’t have the hideous deficit and bailout numbers in front of the public. I’m one who believes the bailout should’ve been even bigger (vide Krugman), which would have put us even deeper in the hole. But to counter timidity we need courage and passion, two qualities scarce on Capitol Hill. Where are the dems to help Obama skewer the fearmongers with real conviction? Why aren’t they demanding spots on TV? Meanwhile Republican liars and simpletons are everywhere.
Fact: Obama’s slipping numbers indict the Democratic leadership in general.
I’m not one that places a lot of stock in polls, but when you do look at polls like Rasmussen,
Rasmussen is a GOP outlier. Always has been, always will be.
If that’s the only polling you’re paying attention to, you’re badly misinformed.
Joaquin,
TPM has a good explanation or at least clears up that issue somewhat.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/07/rasmussens_eye-popping_obama_numbers.php?ref=fpblg
or
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/the-rasmussen-presidential-approval-index-is-this-newer-measurement-worth-anything.php?ref=fpblg
Obama’s approval numbers are high because of Bush. What would Bush’s legacy be if he hadn’t “inherited” the terrorism problem? What would Clinton’s legacy be if he hadn’t “inherited” the dot-com boom? Etc. Etc. Etc. It’s past time for blaming Bush and time to start reaping what Obama is sewing, for better or worse.
“I have to protect our daughters from Obama’s animal magnetism. I don’t care if having your appendix removed costs 3 years of your salary”-Harry Reid
when you do look at polls like Rasmussen
You probably shouldn’t if you want to look at what people actually think.
time to start reaping what Obama is sewing
Is he using a Singer?
White Whale – Like I said, I don’t place a lot of stock, but the numbers can’t be easily discarded. I’m sure the folks at 1600 Pennsylvania aren’t discarding the number just because they’ve ‘turned South’
“when you do look at polls like Rasmussen
You probably shouldn’t if you want to look at what people actually think”
Oh ok, O W. Tell that to the folks in the White House.
Oh ok, O W. Tell that to the folks in the White House.
They already know that. Unlike you, they’re smart.
Joaquin,
Its obvious that Obama is cognizant that poll numbers are down and he is becoming more vocal on healthcare. Blue Dog dems are f’ing up progress and Republicans are spreading outrageous lies(Seniors will DIE!!!). Lets just say this is what polls are meant for in the politico realm: a guide to certian opinions and how they can be tackled but not something to overact.
Given the state of things: that the economy is still rocky, that the Middle East is still a scary morass, it’s amazing that Obama’s approval numbers are still as high as they are. I think it reflects that sense that people have that even if he’s not a miracle worker he’s honestly working hard to make improvements on a lot of fronts.
Fact is, Obama was dealt a bad hand. Anybody in his position would have been. In fact, the reason I supported Hillary until Obama had it in the bag is that I very much feared (still do, in fact) that the democrat elected in 2008 would be a one-term president. That Bush had sunk us so far into a hole in every respect that not even Jesus himself could make everyone feel good about where we were by late 2011. I figured if that one-term democrat was Hillary, and we had to suffer through four or eight years of some republican, then Obama, still in his fifty-somethings would make a fantastic candidate down the road. If Obama is the one-termer, a seventy-something Hillary won’t make as strong a candidate in 2016 or 2020.
But, I’m an eternal pessimist, and was saying the same things about Bill Clinton in ‘92.
Keep hope alive!! I’m stickin’ to Hopey Changey!
anotherbozo: I can’t help imagining what Obama’s approval numbers would be without the inherited recession, without the disgusting Bush legacy on so many fronts, the long trail of ruin he left us.
I strongly suspect that, without the Bush legacy, we wouldn’t have a President Obama.
Clearly President Obama has dropped a bit in the approval polls
Clearly!
…but I don’t see it as anything to worry about.
Neither did we, my friend. Neither. did. we.
Maybe a little less time filling the airwaves with “Rush Limbaugh is racist” and “Sarah Palin is a dummy” and “Bush did it!!” and “OMG Republicans are in shambles!” and a little more time selling *YOUR* agenda and more people might be predisposed. Alas, all the media’s oxygen was wasted on people that should have been ignored and now, as Jeremiah and Maxine would say, the chickens are coming home to roost.
and a little more time selling *YOUR* agenda and more people might be predisposed
Its not our fault the MSM doesn’t do policy. MSM weakness on policy was one of the ways the right was able to ruin the country.
Funny how so many different conservative commentators interpret his numbers drop. My favorite: VP Biden takes over as Pres Notbush ends up his term at St. Elizabeth’s.
… and I should add that I heard a lot of similarly contented chirping from right-wing birdies in ‘93 and ‘94.
Enjoy it while you can my pretties. Come 2012 and you may be gumming down another Dole pineapple.
It’s soon to make an accurate prediction, of course, but there are some disappointed people out there.
Any polls at this time are worthless whether Obama was at 80% approval or 20% approval. The only concern is that his appeal at the moment is on par only to the percentage of those who voted for him so he’s clearly losing ground with independents.
That being said, 2012 is a LONG LONG way off and in the world of politics that is a couple of lifetimes, so I would caution conservatives and Republicans not to get too giddy about Obama’s drop.
Well, investors seem to be taking some comfort in Obama’s tanking approval numbers, so there seems to be a silver lining for you guys.
An almost perfectly negative correlation between his approval numbers and the DOW going back to last August.
An almost perfectly negative correlation between his approval numbers and the DOW going back to last August.
So now, the Dow is reacting to the approval numbers. This will come back to bite you in the ass just like your earlier nonsense will.
… and I should add that I heard a lot of similarly contented chirping from right-wing birdies in ‘93 and ‘94.
As do I…
Watching this stupid-ass beer summit makes me weep for my country.
I’m thinking it takes two more percentage points from Obama. And what in heavan’s name is Plugs doing there?
God, what I wouldn’t pay to hear what he might say with a beer in him and sitting at a table with two mainstream African-Americans who are articulate and bright and clean and nice-looking guys, and a policeman who is smarter than he is.
So it is, so it has been and so it shall be written, but I didn’t say the negative correlation will continue. But since August, the correlation is there.
Oh, now the Dow isn’t a single-cell organism that only responds to who is President, it’s a single-cell organism responding to the President’s popularity, actual policies be damned. The rightwing arguments just get sophisticateder and sophisticateder.
Correlation doesn’t mean causation, calling all toasters. But the tanking DOW was his friend last fall, and the last few weeks disaster for Obama seems to be oddly correlated to an improving DOW. I can’t explain it right now, I’m still digging into the charts. Not sure if we get a breakout to the negative for Obama coupled with a breakout to the positive for the DOW or not, I need a few more data points. Ask me in another week or so.
So…I guess Gallup and Rasmussen aren’t to be believed…for what reason? Unless they’re lying, how can you argue their numbers?
Time had approval at 56, CBS at 58, NBC at 53… It looks very much like Obama has something to worry about unless he turns around the economy within a few months.
I predict Jimmy Carter all over again only with Obama’s visage saturating the media.
The qualities of a president are always relative to the context of their situation. But most of the American masses, being idiots, have usually been oblivious to this.
GWB was a good “rally behind the flag” president and had awesome poll numbers, which over time, became pathetic despite the fact that he was still the same guy.
Obama inherited the worst domestic and international economic situation since FDR, the most corrupt corporate environment since Teddy, and the most complicated military situation since Johnson.
I can’t explain it right now, I’m still digging into the charts.
ROFLMAO. Yes, Dennis, please come back to us when you have completed your “scientific” study that proves a direct link between Obama’s approval rating and the DOW.
Jesus. What a moron.
Forgive me for asking, but is there a chance we get some better trolls in here? The logical fallacies, nitpicking of minor details and “Nyah! Nyah!” churlishness is boring. When I ask tough questions, where I’d really like their opinion because I wish to learn something new, they disappear. They’re oblivious to good refutations, rarely have fresh ideas worth considering, and aren’t very funny, even in their idiocy. Sorry about the whining, but lately I’ve just been blowing past their comments.
God, what I wouldn’t pay to hear what he might say with a beer in him
Why do you think Obama held it outside (for the photo op) but out of microphone range? What makes it even more awkard is Gates and Crowley both dressed to the nines yet the Executive Branchers are in their business casual wear.
Obama inherited the worst domestic and international economic situation since FDR, the most corrupt corporate environment since Teddy, and the most complicated military situation since Johnson.
Oh, puleeeeeeeeeeeze!! The campaign is over …
Obama inherited the worst domestic and international economic situation since FDR, the most corrupt corporate environment since Teddy, and the most complicated military situation since Johnson.
These were all (obviously) inherited from Clinton. Just like the peace and prosperity of January 2001 was a legacy from Bush’s daddy.
Obama inherited the worst domestic and international economic situation since FDR, the most corrupt corporate environment since Teddy, and the most complicated military situation since Johnson
And he’s only made each problem worse.
Sadly, Frank, it’s still full campaign mode for Obama and his loyal bloggers who he’s recently asked to step it up for him. They’ll ride the blameBush mobile until it runs out of gas and their polling tells them who the next Republican bogeyman is that they can pin the blame on. Even when Obama says he owns the economy now and the buck stops with him, no one really believes he means it. Not his supporters, anyway.
Why should I take some stupid creepy old fuck who lives in a flat by the freeway even remotely seriously?
Dennis (the financial “expert”),
Stocks are up because the financial situation, corporate earnings outlooks, and the housing markets are showing improvement.
Obama’s numbers are down because hope that employment will increase our ability to repay government debt is decreasing.
Oh, puleeeeeeeeeeeze!! The campaign is over …
And yet, even nine months later, each of the three clauses of that statement are still correct.
But we all know Dems are on a different timetable for you guys, don’t we?
The “hope” and “change” that people wanted was a government that operated more independently of the corporate lobby machine. Even the undereducated oft-ridiculed mommas boy, Jonah Goldberg, understood that the concentration of insider power between government and corporations was a serious problem.
Well, do you clowns have anything intellgent to say, to teach this young liberal fool with all your 60+ years of life’s experience?
“only” = Completely, instead of partially, bowing to Republican demands to reduce taxes would have mostly only put more cash into people’s savings accounts, besides making Obama look foolish.
“each” = Something that might be up Glenn Greenwald’s alley. Contrary to popular wingnut belief, by vocation and avocation he’s a civil libertarian and not an actual lefty.
“worse” = quoted: “U.S. commanders had predicted a bloody summer after President Barack Obama ordered 21,000 additional U.S. troops to Afghanistan in a bid to turn the tide against a resurgent Taliban and shift the focus on the global war against Islamic extremism from Iraq.” How the hell is Obama responsible?
SaveFaris:
And he’s only made each problem worse.
So you’re not disputing that the previous administration left multiple train wrecks for Obama to deal with. Good.
And the Cash-for-Clunkers program goes belly up less than a month after starting. And these folks want to be in charge of health care?!?
…would have mostly only put more cash into people’s savings accounts
Or, as other people call it, the stock market and CDs. In other words, the two institutions hit the hardest during the crisis. Couldn’t see *HOW* that might help…
President Barack Obama ordered 21,000 additional U.S. troops to Afghanistan
There’s your answer: Obama (in 2003-2008 speak) ordered those soldiers to their deaths. Their blood is on his hands.
More about “worse”:
How many conservatives wanted to scream that we went into Iraq and Afghanistan “on the cheap”, (and for admittedly good reasons) but could not, because both wars had been sold to the American taxpayer as cheap? Was the Bush/Cheney/Wolfowitz/Natsios/etc… gang a bunch of incompetent liars, or did they have to play dirty politics because they had no other choice? What is Obama’s best course of action now?
I’ll agree with that, freD. But the fact is, Obama’s approval numbers being down is comforting to some investors since now his radical tendencies will likely have to be tempered somewhat and held in check. That’s likely to be disappointing to liberals, but I’m trying to look on the bright side because it may very likely mean a rise in the DOW.
Just trying to cheer up some of the doom and gloomers here. Six months ago it was like a frat party in here, now it’s like a morgue.
“Congressional officials say the government plans to suspend the popular “cash for clunkers” program amid concerns it could quickly use up the $1 billion in rebates for new car purchases.“
So they ran out of money because the program was so popular. What’s your point?
————-
Afghanistan was a given. Iraq was an extravagance.
Wars are such serious business that
1. You fight to win, and only if you can win.
2. If winning is not a sure thing, another method must be chosen. Simple Sun Tzu.
The neocons apparently believed in a third way, which I still don’t understand to this day. And now Obama is stuck with this trillion dollar boondoggle.
I’ll agree with that, freD. But the fact is, Obama’s approval numbers being down is comforting to some investors since now his radical tendencies will likely have to be tempered somewhat and held in check. That’s likely to be disappointing to liberals, but I’m trying to look on the bright side because it may very likely mean a rise in the DOW.
You really have no idea how the economy works, do you?
Just trying to cheer up some of the doom and gloomers here. Six months ago it was like a frat party in here, now it’s like a morgue.
Fair enough, Obama’s not doing much to take out the unpopular policies that his predicessors forged, such as warrentless wiretapping, torture, DOMA, DADT, criminalization of marijuana to name a few.
So they ran out of money because the program was so popular. What’s your point?
*That health care’s “popularity” will lead to yet ANOTHER bankrupt government program.
Government estimators got it wrong on Social Security.
Government estimators got it wrong on Medicare.
Government estimators got it wrong on Medicaid.
Government estimators got it wrong on Cash for Clunkers.
Government estimators got it wrong on SCHIP.
Government estimators got it wrong on the unemployment rate.
Government estimators got it wrong on the Post Office.
What makes you think that all of a sudden they will properly estimate costs on the new health care bill? The track record says otherwise.
Ridicule is the best argument against morons in Congress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqd0XiNvtI0
Doctor, is there something I can take to relieve this belly ache?
sp
Why should I take some stupid creepy old fuck who lives in a flat by the freeway even remotely seriously?
I don’t know, derF; why did you GPS my address?
Why can’t you spell your own name? Is it because you only got the first installment of the “Learn to Write Like Leonardo” Course?
Go up out of the basement, and ask your mother to read this to you.
What makes you think that all of a sudden they will properly estimate costs on the new health care bill? The track record says otherwise.
…especially since corporate financial forecasts are always right on the money, not to mention completely honest and candid.
…and because corporate health care has done such a good job at providing quality health care to those who need it. At affordable prices!
So Oliver was so gung ho to paint all white police as racist because of that one e-mail. So surely, Oliver will be just as righteously indignant about the latest e-mail:
I don’t know, SF, but he’s certainly bound to be righteously indignant at you saying that he painted “all white police as racist”, which is a grotesque lie.
Hide your head in shame. Or better yet, just wander back over to little green footballs where the discourse is more on your level.
And while I’m pissed off, fuck all you asswipes who do shit like google a guy’s address and root around in his private life as if anything you could find there has any bearing on anything. Even if we voted for the same guy for president I think you’re dogshit with maggots. Or rather you’re the shit that maggots shit after they’ve eaten dogshit. This is why I don’t say anything about my personal life on blogs like this – I don’t want to come home someday and find one of your freaks wearing a pair of my wife’s underwear while sucking my dog’s balls.
You said it Wilbur. And here’s some rules we can all live by:
http://www.americablog.com/2006/04/top-republican-blogger-posts-phone.html
It’s his fault for being such a lightweight. He’ll be in Carter territory before we know it!
But the fact is, Obama’s approval numbers being down is comforting to some investors since now his radical tendencies will likely have to be tempered somewhat and held in check.
I’m sorry but what? “The fact is”? Really? I though causation isn’t correlation and that you needed “a few more data points” before you could conclusively say there’s a connection between Obama’s approval ratings and the DOW average.
Don’t tell us that you’ve already got your data points and that you’ve completed your serious study of the situation already! Why that was fast.
So Dennis, please share with us your conclusive evidence that it’s a “fact” that “Obama’s approval numbers being down is comforting to some investors.” Please. Love to see it.
Wilbur: While I appreciate your support, I guess I will have to live with the fact that some of the people who disagree with me, can’t settle for a draw or even a close call. Unless they feel they have dragged my formless carcass from the arena, they are simply not satisfied.
Then again, maybe I permit them to believe their lives are better than somebody’s.
Thanks again.
Ease up, fafaroo, baaaaaaad things happen when Dennis’ ouija board is rushed, or taunted.
Yes,
I should try and avoid making comments which could be misinterpreted by innocents as pertaining to them. This is silliness. Tomfoolery. Immaturity. Lesson learned. We are all concerned citizens here enjoying the great gift of free speech. I feel the need to apologize now.
Frank Di Salle,
ICU
Thank you. And once again I apologize for any discomfort my failed humor may have caused. Viva Michella Malkin!
Obama has accomplished in 6 months what it took Bush around 4 years to do! He really is The One!
Obama has accomplished in 6 months what it took Bush around 4 years to do!
Um, what is that, Gabriel? Wait! Don’t answer till I put on my respirator and get my cortisone shots ready!
I’m highly allergic to teh stupid.
Okay, go ahead.
I can’t explain it right now
Funniest thing I’ve read in years.
So Oliver was so gung ho to paint all white police as racist because of that one e-mail.
Really? Show your work. Show some proof. I called *all* white cops racist. Links please. I’ll wait.
Also, its interesting all of a sudden cons are so weak kneed over the deaths of U.S. soldiers, especially since the ones in Afghanistan are actually dying in service of avenging 9/11 and keeping us safe rather than to make George W. Bush feel like a real tough guy compared to his dad, in Iraq.
You people, I swear. And by “you people” I mean conservatives who can talk nothing but poo.
“Um, what is that, Gabriel? Wait! Don’t answer till I put on my respirator and get my cortisone shots ready!
I’m highly allergic to teh stupid.
Okay, go ahead.”
Hit 50%/sub 50% approval ratings. That was fast!
WTF?
In July of 2001, same point in his Presidency that Obama is now in bush had a 56-59% approval rating, how is 52% double?
Face it at this point he is probably praying for a major terrorist attack.
My dad is a die-hard Republican and he’s starting to warm up to Obama, if only because his stocks are starting to recover from the Bush economic crisis.
Go figure.
Unemployment is Obama’s albatross (one he inherited from Bush), and it probably will be for at least another year. But, if the Bush Recession is acting out according to historical precedent, it’s got about another five months to go. We see slow growth in the economy in 2010, which means more jobs. Guys like Dennis who previously tied the daily performance of the DOW to Obama (and then promptly acted like a punk bitch and pretended he never did this) make the mistake of looking at this like a sprint when it’s actually a marathon. And not to belittle the suffering of people who are out of work, but Obama’s been in office for half-a-year, and he’s already restored a lot of faith and confidence into the markets.
So yeah, his approval is down but let’s see where it is one year from now. I’d be willing to bet it’ll be twice as high as Chimpy’s was when he left office, and three times as high as public support for Congressional Republicans. (That’s actually not saying much if you think about it.)
“My dad is a die-hard Republican”
Where did he go wrong?
Used to be a Democrat. Pretty much the definition of a “Reagan Democrat,” if you will.
Really? Show your work. Show some proof I tied the daily performance of the DOW to Obama. Links please. I’ll wait.
You people, I swear.
I don’t bash America Dennis, I bash cowardly fuckwits like you trying to ruin the place.
And please don’t play coy. I’m not your Google monkey, and you know damn well that in the months following Obama’s inauguration that you were giving almost hourly updates on the DOW dropping and then linking this to Obama.
And you’re too much of a coward to even once admit that the economy is slowly improving under Obama, American markets specifically.
My yesterday’s comment was made with full awareness that Bush’s abysmal record helped Obama win, but that same Bush legacy is weighing on Obama’s presidency. Predictably.
It’s easy with this forum catering to earnest types to forget my deep cynicism about American voters and what passes for their opinions. Who can take seriously a people that allowed Bush to get within cheating distance of the White House? TWICE? Who could trust them with anything? Suffice it to say that sometimes the people get something right, but it’s a total crapshoot. Obama is down in the polls? Americans are so malleable, give me the power to phrase a poll question, and I can get you any answer you want.
The problem is, we cannot not care. Overhaul education, create a media not so beholden to corporate advertisers, reconstitute the electoral college–would fundamental changes like those give us a chance?
Meanwhile the government takeover of healthcare is going to give me a choice of how to die. So I hear.
Hit 50%/sub 50% approval ratings. That was fast!
help… must…have… epinephrine….
Oh, but you most certainly do, Jaim. You bash people who do far more to improve things in this country than you do. Good people. Hard-working people. People who donate their precious time and hard-earned dollars to others less fortunate than them but don’t make it a point to tell anyone, they just do it because it’s right. And you bash them simply because they don’t share your political views. You cannot deny that. You, on the other hand, have had quite an elitist and privileged upbringing at your parent’s expense and are now doing extremely little, if anything at all, to help this country.
Not a god-damn thing. Unless you consider bashing half of this country’s citizens as your contribution to America.
Half? Nah, more like 30 percent.
But your bitter tears of resentment are sweet and delicious as always, little Dennis.
I can’t remember a time in my life when I was any happier, Jaim. I don’t resent you at all.
How could I? You provide the perfect metaphor for the elitist liberal malcontent who needs to blame everyone else but himself for his problems, who when the going gets tough, gets going by running away.
It is half the population you bash, Jaim. And even if was only 30%, how can you possibly be proud of yourself castigating 30% of Americans when you do nothing to help America, when those 30% are doing much to improve this country?
But the fact is, Obama’s approval numbers being down is comforting to some investors since now his radical tendencies will likely have to be tempered somewhat and held in check.
Really? Show your work. Show some proof that this is “a fact.” Links please. We’ll wait.
anotherbozo: Obama is down in the polls? Americans are so malleable, give me the power to phrase a poll question, and I can get you any answer you want.
No kidding.
Really? Show your work. Show some proof I tied the daily performance of the DOW to Obama. Links please. I’ll wait.
Here you are, Dennis.
Oh, but you most certainly do, Jaim. You bash people who do far more to improve things in this country than you do. Good people. Hard-working people. People who donate their precious time and hard-earned dollars to others less fortunate than them but don’t make it a point to tell anyone, they just do it because it’s right. And you bash them simply because they don’t share your political views.
So wanting to criminalize homosexuality, torturing people for shits and giggles, and wanting to put 50 million American women behind bars is improving the country? Right.
Dennis wrote:
“DOW down 120 this morning. A market with no bottom. A stimulus package that investors have no faith in, people that know how well government schems that throw good money after bad works in the long run. A liberal blog populated with people who believe their shouting rich guy messiah can make no mistake.”
Dennis, why no kudos for Obama now that the Dow is at 9,200?
Dennis? Dennis?