Gregory Levey in Newsweek: “Why Obama should make George W. Bush his Mideast envoy.”
In related news, Godzilla has been appointed to the task force to rebuild Tokyo.
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July 29th, 2009
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WOW! That is pretty lame, but I think I have you beat with this gem.
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=GduzuzqGqG
Heh. I knew what this was before I clicked on the tweet.
Joaquin, believe it or not in the blogging world there’s this thing called a ‘topic,’ generally outlined by the original post. From what I’ve gathered, the theory is, you make a comment pertaining to the content of the original post. Otherwise you will be rightly mocked via the following words:
Shorter Joaquin: Look over there!
Yes Parthenon, and in the blogging world you also have to deal with small, petulant posters that will resort to little, irrelevant, grade-school barbs when they have nothing intelligent to offer.
The original post being …
Now if you want to give points off for linking to a video clip instead of a transcript, you’d be well within your rights. But the topic itself begs for the audience to see if they can find an instance that matches or exceeds the baseline level of Dumbness contained in the original post, which joaquin clearly did.
Yes Parthenon, and in the blogging world you also have to deal with small, petulant posters that will resort to little, irrelevant, grade-school barbs when they have nothing intelligent to offer.
Such as yourself. Got it.
After being dropped by a left jab, right cross combination at 2:22, Parthenon was sent through the ropes by Save Farris at 2:47
The old Greek building didn’t bother getting back up.
After the first couple movies way back in the long ago, didn’t Godzilla morph into the hero of the movies; always saving Tokyo/Japan/The World from some greater threat?
I wouldn’t choose Godzilla to be the Chairman for the Rebuild Tokyo Committee, however he clearly has a role as the entity capable of stopping Tokyo from being entirely wiped off the face of the Earth by King Ghidorah.
Are you seriously comparing George W. Bush to Godzilla?
I’ll take Gamera any day. He is a friend of children, after all.
I wouldn’t choose Godzilla to be the Chairman for the Rebuild Tokyo Committee, however he clearly has a role as the entity capable of stopping Tokyo from being entirely wiped off the face of the Earth by King Ghidorah.
Plus he’s way smarter than President Dress-Up. Better elder statesman too. And can eat a pretzel without choking. I guess Bunnypants panders to Christianists better, and can ride a bitchin’ mountain bike better, but that’s about it.
Farris, the post is about George Bush, President Obama and Iraq. The obvious response to this being… a video about Rep. Conyers and whether he’s going to read a bill? Right-o. I don’t want to further derail the thread by continuing this pissing contest (which I admittedly instigated). We can agree to disagree about whether that was ‘on topic.’
Anyway, insofar as the opinion of the people in the envoy’s region matters, it might not be a bad idea to consider more opinions than just those of Israel.
If godzilla had been our president from 2001-9, then OBL would have long since been toast. Literally.
Why shouldn’t Barry make Bush his Mideast envoy? So far Barry has followed Bush’s policy on detainee access to courts, misuse of U.S. intelligence on Iran, aid to Gaza, foreign policy and transparency in general. What with Barry’s approval ratings slipping by the week, seems to me like the Obama administration is looking more and more like Bush III than Carter Redux–not that anyone would be aware of that on this blog. Now let’s get back to talking about Sarah Palin.
Palin/Mothra 2012!
Iraq appeared nowhere in this post until you brought it up. And you’re forgetting, as I mentioned, the very title of the post.
Just accept your defeat on that particular issue and let’s move on, shall we?
In the interest of furthering discussion, I’ll go first. While there are other countries in the Mideast, who is our closest ally in the region? And who do THEY approve of? Obama’s policy vis a vi the Mideast seems to be to force Israeli concessions and bend over backwards to everyone else in an attempt to curry favor. If we’re going to demand Israel swallow such bitter medicine, why not send someone they like as the salesman in order to make the pitch?
Of course, Obama would never offer it, Hillary would never allow it, and Bush seems content enough not to accept it, but it’s an interesting thought exercise nonetheless.
Oh, and while Wilbur may be correct in OBL’s demise at the hands of President Godzilla, I’d have to think that Godzilla would also have left the White House and US Capital in a heap of rubble, which was alQaida’s plan anyway.
Farris, if it makes you feel better, please replace the word ‘Iraq’ with ‘the Middle East,’ and my point remains the same. I mistyped.
Obama’s policy vis a vi the Mideast seems to be to force Israeli concessions and bend over backwards to everyone else in an attempt to curry favor.
He’s done no such thing, on either count.
why not send someone they like as the salesman in order to make the pitch?
Because, presumably you could find somebody that has at least neutral credibility with Israelis and not such poor credibility with everyone else.
why not send someone they like as the salesman in order to make the pitch?
“You’re gonna love my nuts.”
“You know the Germans, they make great stuff.”
“You gettin’ this, camera guy?”
I don’t know why a parrot trained to say “Roadmap! Roadmap!” wouldn’t do exactly the same job as Bush, and more cheaply.
Of course, Obama would never offer it, Hillary would never allow it, and Bush seems content enough not to accept it, but it’s an interesting thought exercise nonetheless.
Bush, Jr. is too drunk right now anyway. Plus, Middle East Envoy prob’ly wouldn’t offer much opportunity to play dress up. The man is a child.
Just accept your defeat on that particular issue and let’s move on, shall we?
I don’t think Parthenon should accept defeat on that particular issue. Imagine how unsurprised I was when I listened to the complete video of Conyers’ remarks (which you can do to at http://www.npc.org) and found that – sure enough – this clip which our wingnut friends are crowing about all over the internets, is taken way, way out of context.
In the clip it looks like Conyers is saying: how can anyone expect me to read the health care bill when it’s 1000 pages long and I don’t have two days and two lawyers at my side to explain it to me.
When you see the whole thing you see that Conyers is talking about the difficulty for private citizens in understanding the fine print of their current insurance policies or the new health care bill being proposed when in the course of their every day lives they don’t have two days to go through its 1000 pages and two lawyers to explain the legalese to them.
Jeebus. Totally predictable. Do right-wingers ever make valid, intellectually honest arguments? Do they ever not take things out of context and distort their meaning? Is there anything they will not stoop to to discredit the opposition?
Do right-wingers ever make valid, intellectually honest arguments? Do they ever not take things out of context and distort their meaning? Is there anything they will not stoop to to discredit the opposition?
Sure. In the movies.
Bush, Jr. is too drunk right now anyway.
Wow. And your proof of this is …?
Wow, Newsweek is really serious about cutting their circulation, isn’t it?
Wow. And your proof of this is …?
I know it.
You know it.
And the American People know it.
I’ve got to go with joaquin. The Conyers comment is by far the dumbest thing I’ve heard all week. Making W BO’s mideast envoy is just silly.
Bush is too busy drinking himself to death, I wager.
Jaim 1:18 AM and Indeed 9:53 PM: Both of those remarks about Pres Bush are disgusting. Period. You are despicable.
I think this thread and many of these comments are clear, clear evidence of Bush Derangement Syndrome. I will not re-iterate what Pres Bush accomplished in the Middle East, because I have mentioned it at least three times in these threads, and not one person has come forward to say he didn’t do it, or even that it wasn’t worth it (except for one person who opposes all wars). I therefore conclude that he accomplished what I said he did.
Pres Bush accomplished more in his administration in the Middle East than ALL the Presidents since May of 1948, even 1914.
Nothing Pres Obama has done so far would make him look more statesman – like than such an appointment. The idea that you view the idea as ridiculous just illuminates your lack of foresight and imagination.
Frank, I apologize for my previous curtness. But you’re very wrong.
Pres Bush accomplished more in his administration in the Middle East than ALL the Presidents since May of 1948, even 1914.
I think that’s objectively true, but what’s far from objectively true is that all he accomplished was for the better. Many of the good things that have happened are of the fleurs du mal variety. i.e. If you dump a pile of rank manure in my bedroom, eventually pretty flowers will grow from it. Doesn’t mean I want you dumping manure in my bedroom. Many of Bush’s goals in the middle east were laudible. Trouble is he was absolutely crap at communicating those goals coherently and even more ham-fisted in pursuing them, both diplomatically and militarily.
As a result we are left not only with hundreds of thousands of dead people, but with a strengthened and emboldened Iran (Bush’s belligerence handed the hardliners a convenient and credible bogeyman, and that has contributed to limiting Obama’s options in the current crisis), chaos in Afghanistan that is spreading to Pakistan, skepticism and cynicism toward the US in the rest of the Islamic world and still a very, very fragile situation in Iraq. All of this, of course, also threatens the long-term security of our friends in Israel.
Currently Obama’s approval ratings in Israel are somewhat lower than Bush’s, but quite a bit higher elsewhere in the ME. By sending Bush there might be some marginal gain with the Israelis, but a complete undoing of whatever mending has begun in the rest of the Middle East. Far better for Obama’s people and Obama himself to work on easing Israeli fears while proceeding with their efforts on the broader ME stage. If you read to the end of the article you see that even Levey realizes that, and he pretty much admits that he’s just engaging in a provocative thought experiment rather than a serious policy recommendation.
For that reason, I would not classify his article as one of the dumbest things I’ve read this week, but some of the posts that take his idea seriously and think it’s a good one get close to that distinction.
The obvious drunkenness at press conferences and the first debate with Kerry aside, you mean you haven’t seen the video of Junior knocking ‘em back at a wedding reception? Really?
>The Dumbest Thing I’ve Read This Week
>Why Obama should make George W. Bush his Mideast envoy.
Oliver,
Good news.
Newsweek plans to publish a companion piece next week:
Why Obama needs to send a container box of shoes to the Mideast.
Wilbur: The strengthening and emboldening of Iran, has also served to embolden and strengthen their intelligentsia. Even if the Ayatollahs are not tossed out, a non-nuclear Iran with no plan to go to war with Iraq would be a worthy goal.
Also, it is not a given that the presence of President Bush in Israel will cause any complaints among the Usual Suspects. He does favor separate states, does he not?
I think the back story here is that the Arab states want no part of the Palestinians. Egging people on to pester Israel makes their management job easier. “Give them an enemy, and they won’t notice what WE are doing / not doing”
Wilbur: The strengthening and emboldening of Iran, has also served to embolden and strengthen their intelligentsia. Even if the Ayatollahs are not tossed out, a non-nuclear Iran with no plan to go to war with Iraq would be a worthy goal.
So you’re saying that bringing Iran back to the state it was BEFORE Bush took office is an accomplishment? No wonder you think Bush did a good job in the Middle East. You have incredibly low standards.
because I have mentioned it at least three times in these threads, and not one person has come forward to say he didn’t do it, or even that it wasn’t worth it (except for one person who opposes all wars). I therefore conclude that he accomplished what I said he did.
You would find more people saying that if you actually read the threads you posted in AFTER posting.
But hey, I’ll come forward (assuming you actually read this). After thousands of American troop deaths, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians lives lost (you know, your precious cannon-fodder?), millions of Iraqs becoming refugees, destabilizing an entire country, hundreds of billions of dollars wasted that could’ve been used to improve people’s lives, emboldening terrorists in Iraq, and letting Osama off scott-free? Yeah, I can say what Bush “accomplished” wasn’t worth it.
So you’re saying that bringing Iran back to the state it was BEFORE Bush took office is an accomplishment?
Yes, Zython, it is called status quo ante. It is based on the premise that not all change is for the better. Actually, it is a point you are about to make with regard to Iraq.
[I am sorry I don't respond to your last minute attempts to score points off my comments, but I have noticed that very often, when I do, you start making up stuff just to be argumentative, to drag it on. As often as I am tempted to go several rounds with you, I am trying to break the habit.
Also, you often wait hours to post these things -- and no one is discussing my comment . They have gone on to other things]
Yeah, I can say what Bush “accomplished” wasn’t worth it.
So, after poisoning the Kurds, flooding the southern Iraqis, torturing, raping, killing and imprisoning his own people, that leaving that situation in place as it was would be all right?
The “stability” of Iraq is based on the whim of a man who might have been insane, as his sons were assuredly will.
Leaving that situation in place would have been all right?
We could have troops, carriers and planes, Observation posts, and Listening posts in Iraq for the next 50 years if we wanted to, just as we do in Japan and Germany.
Shall we take them out , and make our defense and intelligence activities weaker?
We can’t find Osama bin Laden. If you think he has gotten off “scot – free” (you might want to look that up – I think you are using that incorrectly), pick someone you think can capture him (Dog, maybe) and send him over to where he is (because you know) and let him collect hi $25 million dollar reward.
Now, I will trade my status quo ante for your status quo ante, anytime .
We can’t find Osama bin Laden. If you think he has gotten off “scot – free” (you might want to look that up – I think you are using that incorrectly), pick someone you think can capture him (Dog, maybe) and send him over to where he is (because you know) and let him collect hi $25 million dollar reward.
Why should I have to do your dirty work (though the $25 mil IS a tempting reason)? You guys had your chance, and you blew it.
The “stability” of Iraq is based on the whim of a man who might have been insane, as his sons were assuredly will.
First of all, what proof do you have of that. Secondly, if the Cold War has taught us anything, is that whenever someone assumes their opponent is insane, they tend to act irrationally.
Also, you often wait hours to post these things — and no one is discussing my comment
Frank, I know this is going to break your heart, but my life doesn’t revolve around you. Deal with it.
Frank, the main perception that Obama has to counter in the Islamic world is that he doesn’t represent any substantial change. That idea could get no more conclusive confirmation than if he sent Bush as an official representative to Israel. Yes, Bush gave lip-service to a two-state solution, but he is widely seen as having done nothing to actually help it come about, and as unwilling to put any pressure on the Israelis to fashion a workable two-state solution. Obama has shown more willingness to do so, so Bush as an envoy would be a definitive backward step in their eyes. Regardless of whether Arab leaders in the region really care about the Palestinians (that’s another discussion), they are all certainly heavily invested in appearing to care about the palestinians, so Bush in the neighborhood would do nothing to make them more tractable or helpful.
So really, it’s a non-starter and a no-brainer. Ain’t gonna happen. Give it up.
See, Zython , I’m not gonna argue with you all night.
Wilbur, I don’t think even Obama believes that doing nothing is a strategy. And I don’t believe we really need to appeal to the sensitivities of, what, 17 countries?
You know there are only about 6 or 8 major players , and Egypt and Israel are no real problem. Saudi Arabia is a mixed blessing, and Iran is parallel on the seesaw , ready to tip either way .
So Palestine is a problem, and Syria and Lebanon.
Wilbur, I don’t think even Obama believes that doing nothing is a strategy.
?-who said anything about doing nothing?
And I don’t believe we really need to appeal to the sensitivities of, what, 17 countries?
No, but it would be a particularly dumb move to piss off 17 countries simltaneously, and egregiously, when there’s no real upside for us.
Obama needs to develop his own relationship with the Israelis and needs to let them know too that things have changed in Washington. We can treat the Israelis like adults; we don’t need to send in their little buddy. Anyhow, from the Israelis I talk to I get the sense that the _personal_ appeal of GWB is not as great as Levey imagines.
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See, Zython , I’m not gonna argue with you all night.
That’s fine. It’s the afternoon now.
‘Both of those remarks about Pres Bush are disgusting. Period. You are despicable.’
No kidding; it’s not like anyone called him a socialist, a terrorist or not an American citizen or anything.
The nerve.
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