’)
There is this ongoing mistake conservative politicians make time and time again. Their base is composed in large part of drooling idiots, and apt to believe nutty conspiracies everyone else has widely debunked and discounted. In the ’60s they believed flouridated water was mind control, then in the ’70s they believed black militants were rioting in the streets, then in the ’90s they thought Bill Clinton was running drugs for the new world order. And now they believe probably the nuttiest thing ever: That President Obama is a secret muslim Kenyan terrorist manchurian candidate.
For Republican pols, it makes sense for them to keep these fears stoked – it brings money in and gets a reliable vote out. But the birthers want more. They believe that the presidency is completely illegitimate (not in a Supreme Court delivered the election way) and a vocal amount of them support legislation and violence to remedy what they see as a problem. Republican pols aren’t backing down, with nutters like Sen. Inhofe indicating he believes that they have a point. These yahoos have already gone further than the left-right spectrum of 9/11 truthers ever went, getting people to actually sign on to legislation.
After elections its natural for parties to look at themselves in the mirror and figure out what needs fixing. The Democrats decided to be true progressives and expand their playing field to all 50 states. The Republicans have decided… to demand birth certificates.
I don’t recall seeing McCain’s birth certificate lately…
Nor Sarah Palin’s….
It’s the desperate gasp of a closed social order trying to maintain hegemony. Rather than work through public and government channels to find common ground, legislative compromise, just “disqualify” the black guy.
These people do not believe in democracy, and have nothing to do with the experiment that is the US, other than to feast off it and fuck it up.
I thought fears about fluoridated water were a left-wing conspiracy theory.
Of course, it does get difficult to tell which wing you’re on when you get deep enough into ANY conspiracy.
Oh please. The “birthers” represent this tiny fraction of people. Stop trying to make it out to be some kind of core constituency.
And since you’re trying to say this is beyond any of the wacko conspiracy theories that happened with 9/11, let me remind you of a poll taken in 2007 that said 35% of Democrats think Bush knew in advance of the 9/11 attacks and that 26% were not sure. 51% of Democrats weren’t sure or believed Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance and allowed them to happen.
Let’s also not forget that the goofy DVD ‘Loose Change’ sold over a million copies despite being available to view for free online.
Sorry, but there is no debate on this issue. If it was a poker game, the 9/11 conspiracies about President Bush would be a royal flush. The birthers are two pairs that people are trying to turn into a straight flush.
There does seem to be a fringe (of the fringe) that thinks Obama is literally working for a foreign government to undermine the US, but I think most of them are probably just clinging to the idea that he’s not a citizen because they hope it’ll undermine his presidency.
None of them seem to really spell out what exactly they think happened. Let’s forget for the moment the preponderance of evidence showing that Obama was indeed born in Hawaii. If Obama was born in Kenya, how did he get the US without any records of him having a passport? I’ve traveled internationally with a baby, and you have to provide papers for them as well. And even if he was born in Kenya, his mother was American — do these people really want to suggest that you must physically be born on US soil to be president? What about McCain (born in Panama)? What about all of the US military stationed overseas? What about other Americans living abroad? Does it make any sense at all to say that the children of these people are all ineligible for the presidency?
If you really want to make legislation about this issue, it shouldn’t be a requirement that people produce a birth certificate to be president. It should be legislation that spells out once and for all what a “natural born citizen” is.
The “birthers” represent this tiny fraction of people.
Small but loud.
let me remind you of a poll taken in 2007 that said 35% of Democrats think Bush knew in advance of the 9/11 attacks and that 26% were not sure
This was a poorly worded poll question. Bush did have advance knowledge, but not in some inside job kind of way. He had info that he ignored, like the memo about Bin Laden determined to strike.
9/11 truthers are across the political spectrum. Going from the extreme left to the survivalist right. The birthers are a purely righty phenom, and a loud and proud part of the mainstream right.
I would point out that in the 60s, 70s 80s and 90s, Republican’s controlled the White House for about half of it and regained control of Congress. And that’s probably the least favorable 20 year period for them since WWII.
Oh please. The “birthers” represent this tiny fraction of people.
Then they should stop electing those people to represent them in Congress.
I guess I forgot about the time a Democratic Senator said the 9/11 truthers ‘had a point.’ Maybe Jay can help us out.
They were talking about this on NPR’s On Point this morning. The host was gracious enough to point out repeatedly that he nor the show were pushing this issue, but felt it was worthy to talk about.
Ignoring the willfully ignorant ain’t gonna change their behavior.
guess I forgot about the time a Democratic Senator said the 9/11 truthers ‘had a point.’ Maybe Jay can help us out.
Or a relative of a former VP or the anchor of a major cable news show.
All I’ve ever heard is “It’s a certificate of live birth, not a birth certificate.” I would like to hear a birther explain away the newspaper announcements. That would be comedy gold.
Small but loud.
Yeah and so is PETA. Big deal. You work for Media Matters. Why not have somebody their run a piece as to why these people even get media coverage. Perhaps its because the left LOVES all the media coverage these kooks get. Easier to try and throw the blanket that these clowns represent a huge constituency.
Bush did have advance knowledge, but not in some inside job kind of way. He had info that he ignored,
Nonsense. You see, you’re engaging in your very own conspiracy crap. The 9/11 commission report says nothing of the sort. You should read it. The poll wasn’t poorly worded. Democrats were saying what they believed. Simple as that.
Parthenon, Democrats nominated a 9/11 conspiracy nut to run for Congress in Florida (Bob Bowman). Don’t forget too, Cynthia McKinney (who wasn’t run out of the party really until she and her father started spouting anti-Semitic rhetoric). Some 9/11 “truth” group actually got to speak about their craziness in front of the Arizona State Senate (they believed in the “controlled demolition” theory) after they held a hunger strike in front of John McCain’s office. Then there was the “Scholars for 9/11 Truth” and then “Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth” who were actually given a level of respect simply because they were “scholars” and “engineers.”
9/11 conspiracy lunacy – Royal Flush
Birthers = 2 pair
Its a good thing John McCain didn’t win the election in 2008. His birth certificate would clearly show he wasn’t born in the United States and is therefore ineligible. Or do the “birthers” only care about where Democrats are born?
August 6, 2001 PDB:
“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
Is anyone suggesting this is not a fact?
I would like to hear a birther explain away the newspaper announcements.
Here ya go…
Larger constituency? I look at popularity (determined by ratings, book sales, notoriety, etc)
Hannity, Beck, Limbaugh, O’Reilly, Coulter, Palin, Joe the Plumber, Savage, Malkin, Kristol… are among the most popular conservative voices. And I think they’re also nuts and/or assholes.
The more even tempered conservatives, and dare I say, the more ‘Christ-like’ conservatives, with education and intelligence, such as Rockwell, Paul, Sowell, Rice, Huckabee… are nobodies by comparison.
Why is this so?
“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
“Rick Snachez Determined to Finish #1 in the Ratings”
–just as relevant.
-1 for misspelling “Sanchez”.
“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”
“Rick Snachez Determined to Finish #1 in the Ratings”
–just as relevant.
Thanks a yahoo, my False Equivalence Meter just exploded.
I apologize for getting a bit OT, but another interesting point. If one looks at red/blue county maps it’s obvious that urban is bluest and rural is reddest. Conservatism does appear to be part of the cultural fabric of rural America.
So I took the liberty to do a cursory check of where my list of conservative pundits came from. What are their developmental and cultural roots? (* denotes small town):
Sean Hannity (suburb of NYC)
Glenn Beck (Puget Sound, Washington)
Limbaugh (college town in Missouri, Pittsburgh, KC)
O’Reilly (NYC)
Coulter (suburban NYC)
*Palin
JTP (suburban Toledo)
Savage (NYC, San Francisco)
Malkin (Philadelphia, Atlantic City)
Kristol (NYC)
Only one appears to be from Red (real) America. Yet they are popular preachers for the “heartland values” crowd.
Why is this so?
SaveFarris:
What a complete load of horseshit. Why would Obama’s mother care about what a court in Kenya in 1961 might think? Do you or any other fucked-up conservative have any idea what Kenyan paternity law in 1961 said? Good God you people are fucking pathetic. Also, consider that air travel in 1961 wasn’t like it is today. It was rare and very expensive. It isn’t like the Obama’s could jump on a jet and fly from Kenya to Honolulu (10,000 miles) on a whim. Long distance phone service was also spotty at best. And you think they would “plant” TWO birth announcements just to really make the supposed fraud convincing? How utterly preposterous. You people are fools. There is a better chance of pink and yellow winged monkeys flying out of my ss than of this cock and bull story being true.
Keep talking, birfers. That’s all I ask. Hell, now you have a sitting US Senator on your side, Inhofe.
Why not have somebody their run a piece as to why these people even get media coverage.
Because the media runs Republican garbage as if its actually news. This is why I work where I do in the first place.
And yes, Bin Laden Determined To Strike.
An interesting thought exercise freD, though your list has some issues:
* Everyone in and around NYC is labeled as being from there, even though simple deduction tells you that someone of Long Island heritage would have a MUCH different background than someone from, say, the Upper West Side, to say nothing of Harlem or the Bronx. That goes for most of the others, where the suburbs are a MUCH different political climate than in the inner city, no matter what “color” state you’re in.
* You claim Limbaugh was raised in disparate places (btw, where’s Sacramento?), yet all of the locations were post-college years. Others who did also moved around post-degree (Hannity, Coulter, Beck) are only credited with their birth cities.
*Joe the Plumber is a more influential conservative pundit than … Krauthammer? Levin? Thomas? Bennett? Ingram? Lopez? Reynolds? Drudge?
Alll they needed to do was imagine a day when the white Ms. Dunham would be engaged in a custody fight in a Kenyan court contesting the fate of a black Kenyan baby sought by the black Kenyan father and his African family, and their course would have been clear.
So they plant 2 birth announcements proclaiming that the baby in question was fathered by a black Kenyan. Got it.
P.S. Black.
Suburbs? http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SRXoLKoG68I/AAAAAAAAW1E/sFbhTWkBQ_c/s1600-h/blue+america.JPG
I don’t have time to find a better map. Long Island trends bluish purple.
Why was Joe the Plumber on the campaign tour and not Krauthammer? I’d place Kraut and Reynolds as moderate between serious thinker and shrill polemic. Did Hannity, Coulter or Beck spend significant developmental years in Real America? I understand Kristol, politics being a family thing and all, but he’s infamous for being wrong all the time.
I forgot Drudge. No college, but between DC and the Maryland coast there was stint with Jewish Social Services, which I guess you’ll count as college. The rest of the list you mentioned didn’t make my cutoff. They’re second tier.
I suppose in the black community, if a white guy made it nationwide as an African American activist it’d probably be cool. But if there was a bunch of white guys doing this who had little street cred, little education, and they were making serious bank, then I’d think there’d be some concern. But street cred appears to be irrelevant in today’s conservative world.
“The ‘birthers’ represent this tiny fraction of people.”
Actually, they’re well represented in Congress according to the video interviews.
But Jay Tea, it’s cute how you try and pretend your party isn’t run by fucking insane people.
Why was Joe the Plumber on the campaign tour and not Krauthammer?
Because Joe just happened to have the good luck of making news in the middle of August and the McCain camp glommed on. By your measure, was Cindy Sheehan one of the Left’s leading pundits in 2006?
Another issue is the political makeup of the country was a lot different 30 years ago. In 1968, half of Long Island’s House contingenet were Republicans. It was only later, when the Empire State became overregulatory and conservatives decamped to the Sun Belt, that the area became solidly “blue”.
Because Joe just happened to have the good luck of making news in the middle of August and the McCain camp glommed on. By your measure, was Cindy Sheehan one of the Left’s leading pundits in 2006?
Which democratic campaign used Sheehan as a centerpiece, referring to her constantly as representing the common folk?
None? So that was the false equivalence so common to your arguments? Just checking. Thanks.
And since you’re trying to say this is beyond any of the wacko conspiracy theories that happened with 9/11, let me remind you of a poll taken in 2007 that said 35% of Democrats think Bush knew in advance of the 9/11 attacks and that 26% were not sure. 51% of Democrats weren’t sure or believed Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance and allowed them to happen.
To be fair, “knew in advance” has a rather broad spectrum of possibilities as to what it really and truly means. It could mean that he was given a note that said “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” and said “You’ve covered your ass now” or it could mean that he planned it all from his underground volcano lair deep in the jungles of Saskatchewan.
Also, a good number of people during Clinton’s administration (and probably for some time after) believed that Vince Foster was murdered by (or on the orders of) the Clintons, despite every investigation coming up “suicide.” So really, we can go back and forth with dueling conspiracy theories all day every day and twice around on Sundays, but it’s not going to do anything of consequence.
By your measure, was Cindy Sheehan one of the Left’s leading pundits in 2006?
I agree with RR. Cindy Sheehan was an anti Iraq war activist, and a weak counter to Joe the Plumber.
I say the majority of conservatives prefer simple shrillness to rational problem solving. Maybe that’s why I’ve had so many tell me that Justin Raimondo is a lefty?