Biden On Recovery
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Vice President Biden, in the Sunday NY Times:
The care with which we are carrying out the provisions of the Recovery Act has led some people to ask whether we are moving too slowly. But the act was intended to provide steady support for our economy over an extended period — not a jolt that would last only a few months. Instead of quick-hit rebates, we are giving Americans a tax cut in each paycheck. Instead of pumping out all the state aid immediately, we are spreading it over the two years that it will be needed. Road projects, energy projects and construction projects are being started as soon as they pass review, contracts are competitively bid and reporting systems are in place.
Even with such care being taken, we have already committed more than one-fourth of the Recovery Act’s total funds, and we are on track to meet the deadline set when the act was passed in February — spending 70 percent by the end of September 2010.
The Recovery Act is not the cure for all our economic ills — no single piece of legislation could be. But how many government initiatives can point to both large numbers of projects coming in under budget and a Government Accountability Office finding that we are ahead of schedule in key areas?
Somewhere in the very near future when the economy is growing at a strong yet steady pace, we’re going to look back at the people bitching and moaning about the Recovery Act not working as a very quaint and odd time in U.S. history.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Shorter Biden: “The stimulus was all about spreading Democracy. It had *NOTHING* to do with WMDs.”. Let the goalpost moving commence!!
There’s only one reason this editorial exists: Obama knows he’s veunerable on the stimulus and the economy as a whole and he’s gotta get out there and try to spin this EPIC FAIL of a bill.
By the way, we Republicans can’t thank you enough for Joe Biden. So far, he’s done a better job of making the case for our party than even Michael Steele.
SF, let me explain it in words my nine-year-old, but not you, would understand: the stimulus bill is working and will work. The reason you won’t understand it is that you operate out of a failed ideology of profoundly stupid economics, vicious rape of the constitution, and aid and comfort to our enemies. IOW, fuck you: you gave away any right to call yourself a decent human being or a loyal American the moment you voted for George W. Bush.
Cons only understand photoshop
Farris: not a bit of goalpost-moving. Clarifying all the horseshit coming out of the media, yes.
And that you believe Michael Steele gives people a reason to vote for Republicans certainly says something.
A plan like this, even remotely resembling this, has never worked before.
Remember Bastiat’s “Broken Window”? The government cannot create jobs or wealth. They can only select activities for which people should receive whatever their talents are worth, that value determined on the open market. The money ordered by the government to be paid for such activity is fiat currency. Huge stocks of useless products plus huge amounts of baseless currency = surpluses of some products, shortages of some others, black market goods, and inflation.
We will never “look back at the people bitching and moaning about the Recovery Act not working as a very quaint and odd time in U.S. history”; we will once again run the risk that Edmund Burke’s prescient concept of the “man on horseback” will again tempt us towards a dictatorship as the disastrous means to an end.
” the stimulus bill is working and will work.”
And your proof is … a steam of personal invective? Sorry, you’ll have to do better. If it was so obvious that the stimulus was working, Biden wouldn’t have to try to get out there and defend it.
Parthenon, if you actually took the time to read my post, you’d realize I said the exact opposite.
I agree that an economic stimulus is needed. I would also reccommend that US corporations that have outsourced most of their manufacturing and R&D be forced to bring those jobs back to the USA. Their incentive would be to allow them to maintain their US corporation status and related US tax benefits. I would handle it this way: Give all US corporation 18 months to relocate at least 75 % of their Manufacturing back to the US or they loose their US corporation status and become “Migrant companies”. This means they loose their corporate tax incentives, pay 60% income tax to help support the US infrastucture and then all products they import ( excluding raw materials) to be taxed at 3 times the going import tax rate.This will bring back American jobs and our economy will begin to grow once again.If we don’t bring back jobs then this economic stimulus will only serve as a short term fix. Next time you go to wallmart or sears or anywhere else to buy anything..try to find anything “made in america” ..China and Mexico seam to be the main sources these days.Thank you
Pat
we’re going to look back at the people bitching and moaning about the Recovery Act not working as a very quaint and odd time in U.S. history.
The irony of course being that it would have worked much better if they’ve made it larger, against the wishes of the people now proclaiming it a failure.
So far, he’s done a better job of making the case for our party than even Michael Steele.
I don’t want to get too far afield from the topic here Farris, but what this sentence actually says is that Michael Steele does a job of making the case for Republicans, but Joe Biden does a better job of it.
No big deal, Farris. We could all use an editor.
Over at Hot Air, they’re comparing this from Biden from other things he’s said about the stimulus package.
In his defense, it IS Biden here. The man only has two ways of speaking: compulsive bullshitting, or spouting awkward truths.
The real trick is figuring out which he’s doing — he’s utterly sincere in both modes.
J.
Hey, maybe you two guys need to get together and have a beer.
And maybe this too is a teachable moment for everyone here.
Biden first tells us there’s a 30% chance this stimulus won’t work. When it doesn’t do what they said it would do by this time in the cycle in that they projected 8% unemployment cap with the stimulus and we are now at 9 1/2% and headed to double digits, then Biden tells us they misread the economy to begin with. What, that didn’t work? They should done more stimulus, that would’ve surely done the trick.
Now it’s back to blaming Bush and the economy they inherited and Obama’s campaign mantra of ‘hope and change for everyone, just bear with us a little while longer.’
Yeah, how quaint of us to be distrustful of this clown’s fluff piece here today.
Over at Hot Air, they’re comparing this from Biden from other things he’s said about the stimulus package.
Sounds like a real Algonquin Round Table.
Over at Hot Air, they’re comparing this from Biden from other things he’s said about the stimulus package.
Over at Hot Air they were were asking if Rachel Ray supported terrorism.
So, those Biden quotes (mostly pulled from the White House web site) are bogus? Just made up? Planted?
When you gotta send out JOE BIDEN to sell the party line, you KNOW you’ve lost.
J.
Indeed & August (and Mike) are attacking the messenger because they can’t attack the message
Indeed & August (and Mike) are attacking the messenger because they can’t attack the message
Meh, the message is pretty standard political speak. Not really much of a story. As for Teh Stimulus and the relative timeliness of its efficacy, I tend to rely on the wisdom of Nobel Prize-winning economists with a healthy track record of getting important shit right than petty blog commenters who turn to the likes of Hot Air to reinforce their predetermined worldviews (e.g., Over at Hot Air they were were asking if Rachel Ray supported terrorism.).
Plus, it’s fun mocking the readily mock-able. Also.
Plus, it’s fun mocking the readily mock-able. Also.
Which sums up the appeal of Joe Biden…
J.
Indeed & August (and Mike) are attacking the messenger because they can’t attack the message
I can’t attack the “message” of crazy people speaking in tongues either, because they’re crazy people spewing crazy babble. So I really don’t have any alternative but to point out they’re crazy.
But perish the thought of “attacking the messenger.” I mean, imagine if I dismissed someone by saying, say, “The man only has two ways of speaking: compulsive bullshitting, or spouting awkward truths.” I’d look like a real schmuck then, wouldn’t I.
Yep. Stimulus working all right. Workin so well that your messiah’s approval rating has cratered to below 50% in barely 6 months.
Keep on workin, stimulus.
Oliver:
Reading some of the comments, I think you are being slightly deceptive in your blog titling.
People do not assume you’re referring to *red* kryptonite
.
You know what’ll happen, right? If the economy recovers, it will just turn into a fight between, “See? This is proof that the Recovery Act worked!” and “The economy would have recovered whether the Recovery Act was there or not.” Given Biden’s earlier comments, he’s pretty obviously just trying to lengthen out the timeline within which the administration can take credit. Can’t say I blame him, the “short” timeframe is probably done and past..
August, the difference here is that Biden is the messenger; at Hot Air; they’re just aggregating Biden’s previous statements.
So, which time was Biden NOT bullshitting?
J.
So what happens to the moral of the “parable of the broken window” if the shopkeeper only bought goods made out of town?
Seems like yesterday when conservatives were encouraging Detroit’s building of gas guzzling vehicles while liberals wanted Detroit to go green. I’d keep a record on wingnut predictions to display their gamey tribalism. They’ll ignore a high batting average to howl at each and every strike.
Of course, people like Joe Biden as well as most liberals and Democrats don’t understand the economy runs in cycles. Four years from now if the economy is humming along it will have nothing at all to do with the ‘Recovery Act’ which was nothing but an $800 billion pork-laden boondoggle that was loaded up with enough goodies to get hesitant legislators to vote for the POS. Clearly the administration is covering its ass by looking long term and then being able to use it to their advantage by saying, “Look what the stimulus did!” It will make for good politics, but it won’t have any basis in reality.
There was no stimulus act need in the early 80′s and we had one of the longest economic expansions in US history. Clinton’s stimulus bill failed and the economy boomed.
Oliver really has his head up his ass if he things ‘strong but steady’ growth is anywhere in the near future. I see increases in unemployment and quite a few shocks for the economy to go through before we get anywhere near such prognistications. Greenshoots are a joke, and quite a sick one at that.
The stimulus bill will do some good, but it was always a half assed bill. I don’t see the point in pretending anything else. It will alleviate some of the suffering, but it is very unlikely to actually put us on the road to recovery. I’m not sure we’re even goihg to have a recovery.
What happens if the economy more or less stagnates for half a decade, employment eventually bottoms out but barely begins to climb back. It won’t really mean these Republicans will have been right, quite the opposite really. Thats not going to stop most people from assuming they were, however.
“I tend to rely on the wisdom of Nobel Prize-winning economists with a healthy track record of getting important shit right…”
And exactly which Nobel winning economist with a healthy track record would that be?
Just curious SF: I see a number of things in that article that people of various viewpoints might object to. Which are you referring to?
people like Joe Biden as well as most liberals and Democrats don’t understand the economy runs in cycles.
I love it when people who obviously couldn’t buy a clue in a bear clue market say things like “the other side obviously doesn’t understand that water is wet.”
Of course, people like Joe Biden as well as most liberals and Democrats don’t understand the economy runs in cycles.
Yeah, like that 1.8 trillion dollar debt you keep blaming Obama for.
Apparently the conservatives and Republicans way is, during up economic cycles, to run up government deficits and encourage ballooning credit, commodity and real estate prices to levels that pop right into liberal and Democratic laps.
Yeah, that’s it. It was all planned that way. Excellent.
Is there not one liberal who frequents this site able to say something positive about the Joe Biden stimulus article?
Surely someone could think of at least one thing. So far though, nothing.
Waving the white flag already?
Joe Biden is embarassing. Not a very smart guy.
The administration is spinning and you’re acting like whatever they say is 100% true. Wish I was that gullible.
In the words of a great American, liberals….
Let not your hearts be troubled.
So, which time was Biden NOT bullshitting?
Jay Tea, I would suggest you try upping your own correct to completely fucking wrong ratio before you start criticizing others for bullshitting.
Is there not one liberal who frequents this site able to say something positive about the Joe Biden stimulus article?
Dennis, maybe you guys could actually point out what’s wrong with it. Please point out the factually inaccurate statements in the article with evidence as to why they are factually inaccurate.
If you want to just bitch that Biden is “spinning” be my guest. But until you can put up some facts of your own, so are you.
“In the end, fafaroo, this is not about me at all.”
You wanna play that dumbass “clean hands” game, fafaroo? Fine. Be that kind of ignorant asshole.
Then how about this: “it takes one to know one.”
But whether I’m saying it or Hot Air is saying it or George Soros is saying it, it remains the truth: Joe Biden is completely, utterly, and absolutely full of shit.
Biden, today:
“The care with which we are carrying out the provisions of the Recovery Act has led some people to ask whether we are moving too slowly. But the act was intended to provide steady support for our economy over an extended period — not a jolt that would last only a few months.”
Biden, March 28, 2009:
“The Recovery Act, as we call it, provides a necessary jolt to our economy to implement what we refer as “shovel-ready” projects, meaning projects that were on the books that were needed in the municipalities and the states that would improve the quality of life for our constituents, the competitiveness of our businesses, but were unable to be funded.”
Obama, November 24, 2008:
“But I think the most important thing to recognize is that we have a consensus, which is pretty rare, between conservative economists and liberal economists, that we need a big stimulus package that will jolt the economy back into shape and that is focused on the 2.5 million jobs that I intend to create during the first part of my administration. We have to put people back to work.”
Give THAT one a spin, fafaroo.
J.
I do think Biden could have expressed himself better today. I think he meant to say was means to say is something like the following:
“while one of the things the stimulus was intended to do was provide an immediate jolt by funding backlogged projects, etc., nobody ever dreamed that that alone would be enough to put our economy on a sound footing, so instead of only a jolt that would last for three months, we wanted also to provide steady support for our economy over an extended period.”
If you look at what Biden said in the context of what the administration has been saying for the last several months, it’s pretty easy to see what he meant, and where he could have expressed himself a little more clearly.
That is, unless you’re fired by partisan zeal to make the biggest possible issue out of every slip and gaffe.
Yeah, we get it, Mr. Tea:
“Joe Biden!! Yah! Yah! Yah-HEY! Roblerobleroble!”
A few months ago, he said “jolt.” In today’s op-ed, he says “not a jolt.”
He changed his tune, naughty boy. What else you got?
Jay Tea, yesterday morning, quoting another dumbass named Port:
“….the Democrat Congress passed in 2006 The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007…”
It’s almost as if some people say things inartfully and perhaps inarticulately, and other people just pull stuff completely out of their asses.
So what happens to the moral of the “parable of the broken window” if the shopkeeper only bought goods made out of town?
Not a thing… The perimeters of this mental exercise extend infinitely into time and space
I do think Biden could have expressed himself better today.
Ah, Wilbur. Don’t fall into Mr. Tea’s trap.
There are no words that could be written or spoken by Biden that wouldn’t prompt Mr. Tea to deliver the exact same flaming bag of poo to our doorsteps. You see, policy does not matter in the least. What matters most to pranksters like Mr. Tea is ridicule.
Whatever the circumstance, Mr. Tea will read into it the opportunity to play his imagined trump card.
So when you try to re-write Mr. Biden’s words, you have embarked on an impossible errand. Grant him the oratory of Cicero if you like. Mr. Tea will mock him anyway.
Not a thing… The perimeters of this mental exercise extend infinitely into time and space
Anyone else get the sense that Frank Disalle is an incarnation of Ignatius J. Reilly? Cause I sure do.
Focus on the strikes and not the batting average, much? Reminds me of when Kerry’s “stuck in Iraq” comment was repeated ad infinitum as though it compensated for all of Bush’s gaffes. Biden screws up too, but Dubya is by far the modern day gaffe champ.
Cheney played it smarter. (Or so he thought?) By going this way: “Iraq would literally be a quagmire” and then that way: “I think it will go relatively quickly… weeks rather than months” he guaranteed that he’d be right at least once.
Anyone else get the sense that Frank Disalle is an incarnation of Ignatius J. Reilly?
Hm. Care for a hotdog, Frank?
“In the end, fafaroo, this is not about me at all.”
Good to hear it, Dennis. We can assume you will never comment here again then? Much appreciated.
Hey Dennis,
The market is over 9000 now. Care to comment?
The market is over 9000 now. Care to comment?
“Thank god for teh Bush tax cuts!”
Or something like that….
Chow Shark, my first inclination is to ask who the hell you are, because I don’t think we’ve had the pleasure. But instead I’d like to congratulate you on being the first lib commenter here to say something positive, even if it was feint praise, about the current administration’s economic leadership.
Well done, sir. I like people who can step up to the plate and take a swing.
Chow Shark, I guess I can look back at the bitching and moaning I did last February at Obama’s scare tactics to pass the stimulus that he said would keep unemployment from going above 8% and had stock investors scrambling for the exits as a very quaint and odd time in U.S. history.
Hello Dennis,
You may not know me because I’m primarily a lurker to this site. Second, it’s sad that I can’t call you out on your shit without you typecasting me on what side of the isle I reside on (independent) but I’ll carry on.
I was deployed to Camp Victory from Nov-May and I clearly remember following the comments in this site (particularly yours) after the election reading the bullshit regurgitated by republicans regarding the market as being a referendum on Obama’s policies. I remember you and the King Oxycontin spewing off at the mouth about daily downward ticking. Even when Oliver professed that the market was not a good indicator good or bad, that didn’t stop you from frolicking at the mouth about the doom and gloom of how bad it was…under Obama. I always wondered would this “Dennis” guy admit that he was misguided if he were wrong.
So…here we are. And with that standard, I ask, since the market is up…do you care to comment on how good or bad things still are? A simple “I was wrong” would be nice.
Markets go up, markets go down, Chow Shark. Every time it goes up, someone here wants me to say I’m sorry. Market goes back down, those same people go mum. Fact is, Obama didn’t cause the market to go down all by himself, but he did scare people at the time.
I hope it recovers and stays that way, but don’t expect an apology from me if and when it does, because what I said Obama was doing and what the effects on investors at the time were, was true, no matter what happens now or anytime going forward.
And Chow Shark, why do you expect an apology from me and why do your characterize what Oliver said as being clairvoyant, when Obama and Biden and their adminstration has been all over the place with their predictions, restatements and miscalculations? I’m just a d-bag making comments on a blog, those guys are the ones you should be angry at. In the end, this isn’t about me at all.
When you gotta send out JOE BIDEN to sell the party line, you KNOW you’ve lost.
Yeah, its almost as if he’s the vice president of the united states. You see, that’s a job usually held by someone who isn’t afraid to speak in front of the cameras and isn’t a grumpy old lunatic who shoots people in the face.
Fact is, Obama didn’t cause the market to go down all by himself, but he did scare people at the time.
Shorter Dennis: The markets going down earlier were all Obama’s fault. But if they go up, he gets no credit. Give me a break.
I’m just a d-bag making comments on a blog
Truer words never spoken.
‘The government cannot create jobs or wealth. ‘
How do you explain Haliburton and Blackwater doing so well?
‘Yeah, how quaint of us to be distrustful of this clown’s fluff piece here today.’
No shit; six whole months and the problems of the universe haven’t been solved?
Unthinkable; where’s Palin and her magic iceberg to save the day?
‘When you gotta send out JOE BIDEN to sell the party line, you KNOW you’ve lost.’
Well be fair; not every party has a Michelle Bachmann to lean on.
‘Well done, sir. I like people who can step up to the plate and take a swing.’
You must love the modern GOP in that case; they keep swinging even when they’re not at bat.
Ah, Wilbur. Don’t fall into Mr. Tea’s trap.
Damn! Did I take what one of those winguts said seriously again?
But wow, what a classic from Dennis:
because what I said Obama was doing and what the effects on investors at the time were, was true, no matter what happens now or anytime going forward.
Then there’s Frank, outdoing himself:
The perimeters of this mental exercise extend infinitely into time and space
No comment necessary,
“…not a jolt that would last only a few months.”
Wait, so this all comes down to how long a jolt is? Dude, good luck nailing that one down.
How does it feel to get schooled by Biden?
Bush ran up the Federal debt and spent like a drunken sailor for eight years. What did we get from “conservatives”? Complete silence, if not outright cheer-leading. Dick Cheney saying “deficits don’t matter,” etc.
Obama had six months, and in fact some things have started to improve like the stock market. Unemployment is the important number, however, and its also a lagging indicator.
So if we can grant eight years of unabated spending and disastrous economic policy to Chimpy, I think we can give Obama at least a full two years before we start to write him off.
Frank writes “The government cannot create jobs or wealth.” Funny, but government spending is exactly how we got out of the Great Depression through Federal job programs or, if you prefer, massive government recruitment for World War II.
Do you have any shame in being wrong about anything and everything Frank?
Just curious, Oliver, how much credit did you give Bush for the Dow when it hit 14,000? Did you ever give Bush credit for anything related to the markets, ever, the Dow or the unemployment rate? Even once?
‘Just curious, Oliver, how much credit did you give Bush for the Dow when it hit 14,000? Did you ever give Bush credit for anything related to the markets, ever, the Dow or the unemployment rate? Even once’
So, we’re all to give credit to Bush for the Dow’s record high, but when it comes to its record failure at the end of his tenure, he gets a pass?
How does that work?
Dennis, pointing out that you use inconsistent standards does not obligate someone to accept those standards as valid. People are merely pointing out that your reasoning seems quite inconsistent.
And I think there’s a good reason. In this discussion, you’ve claimed that Obama scared investors. This reminds me of the joke about how “no, those pants don’t make your ass look fat, your ass makes your ass look fat.”
In order to claim that Obama scared investors (rather than making prudent statements) you’d need to show that the metaphorical ass was slender-looking until the metaphorical pants went on. And it wasn’t.
I’ll leave the extraneous and obvious insult about asses as an exercise for the reader.
I’m pointing out that Oliver has been completely one-sided in his criticism of Bush, no matter what level the Dow was and no matter what the unemployment rate was. And he’s been completely one-sided on Obama to the positive, too (although we don’t seem to be getting any more pictures lately of Bam in a Superman outfit). To expect me to cheer for Obama now at the Dow going above 9,000 because I was critical before, when he was always critical of Bush with not one positive thing to say about him, Dow 14,000 or Dow 9,000, is inconsistent on his part no matter what standards one uses, LongHaired.
If you think Obama is doing a stand-up job on the economy, by all means, stand up and shout it out. So far here, about the only positive anyone here has said on this now one full day-old thread is that the Dow is above 9,000.
Hardly a ringing endorsement from the community of the reality-based. Nor is it justification for me to give him due credit.
Dennis Dennis Dennis,
you sound like a victim. you sound as if someone misquote you or took you out of context when you were making “Jesus Help this president” comment daily when the market was down. It was OLIVER, I repeat, OLIVER had to remind you time after time to stop using the market as an indicator on how well a president or political party does because it wasn’t a good standard of measure. But that didn’t stop you from boasting the doom and gloom when things were down. Things in fact were down.
Now they’re up. Care to ask Jesus to help the President now? Or do you only refer to the market when its convenient for you to blame how bad it is on the Democrats. It’s just that simple.
I don’t see why you think Oliver should give Bush credit for overseeing a 14000 jump in the market when it was OLIVER who said daily tickers are not good indicators in the first place. I don’t remember the exact quote but I believe he said no president can control the market. That would be consistent to why he hasn’t made a correlation for this rapid jump as of lately.
During the Bush presidency I said that the best he had done didn’t screw it up. Problem is the last 2 years show us even that was being charitable. Also, the thousands of people who died in New York, DC, Pennsylvania, New Orleans, and Iraq on his watch unnecessarily didn’t do wonders for my views of him.
The adults are in charge.
Man FUCK RUSSIA
Next>>>>
Dennis isn’t very good at sticking to his promises, as we all know.
Let me see if I’ve got this right.
Oliver was always critical of Bush, whether the Dow and unemployment was good or not. So, by being consistent, he was… hmmm.
Because he was consistent… no, we can’t turn that around into something inconsistent. Because Oliver’s criticism wasn’t based upon the Dow.
Whereas yours was – you did blame Obama for the Dow’s drop. By “scaring investors”, which is to say, by not lying about the state of the economy.
Are you starting to see the issue here?
No one is saying you have to say that Obama is a great President just because the Dow is up. They’re saying if you’re going to blame him for its fall, you should credit him for its rise.
BTW, given the choice of shortening my name, I prefer to be referred to as a “Weirdo;” it’s a lot more person-place-or-thingish than “Longhaired” which has a kind of adjectival feel to it. Some folks use LHW, which works, too.