Henry Louis Gates Jr. : “1 Million Black Men In Jail In This Country… I Was One Of Them”
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‘There are one million black men in jail in this country and last Thursday I was one of them,’ he said in an exclusive interview with The Washington Post Tuesday morning. ‘This is outrageous and that this is how poor black men across the country are treated everyday in the criminal justice system. It’s one thing to write about it, but altogether another to experience it.’
He was still outraged but he said he has had time to take a step back and will now apply the scholarship that has been his life’s work to the issue of race in the criminal justice system.
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Gimme a break! I guess when he was locked out of his house, he was one of the homeless. And if he missed dinner, he was one of the hungry.
What a tool.
I guess if he had a “Prison Wedding” with Big Maurice the other night, he could say he now knew what it was like to be gay in America.
H L Gates has about as much as common with the average black guy, as that OTHER Gates in Washington State – you know, the computer guy.
What the hell is in that water in the river Charles?
H L Gates has about as much as common with the average black guy
Except to the cops, he was just another black crook. Which is the whole point.
H L Gates has about as much as common with the average black guy, as
any other black guy in America.
Point, Oliver.
I just wanna say, This happen in Cambridge Massachusetts, not Jackson Mississippi
The Post claims that Gates lives in a ‘middle class neighborhood.’
I’m sorry. There is no such thing as a middle class neighborhood in Cambridge anywhere near Harvard. You have to pay a King’s ransom to rent a tiny box in which you can put your bed and maybe a coffee pot.
That may have been true in the early 1980s, though.
HL Gates and his homies, doing skid bits…
I s’pose the only thing that might be said in favor of the cop was that he was not violent in the arrest of Dr. Gates…..FWIW
Still–Racial Profiling is what it is, regardless of whether a cop beats hell out of a Rodney King for being uncooperative at a traffic stop, or politely cuffing a Dr. Gates for opening up his own home while Black. The one who should have gotten police scrutiny should have been whoever called in the issue, especially if, as is elsewhere noted, Dr. Gates is somewhat conspicuous in his being well-dressed at all times. It seems stupid to call in a break-in when one at the door isn’t dressed for the ‘job’…maybe he’s *not* a criminal, but maybe….just maybe he might *live* there?
What he should have said is: ‘There are one million innocent black men in jail in this country”
Now that would have been funny.
Gate’s last sentence about his intention to apply his scholarship to Race and the Criminal Justice system is important news — I hadn’t heard that anywhere else today. I don’t think he’d say that if he didn’t mean it. He can get a huge audience if he pursues this.
Also, I used to live in Harvard Square in the 1970s, and remember the cops as tolerant and savvy. I can see this happening in the suburbs, but I’m surprised it happened there. It’ll be interesting to see how the Cambridge’s PR people follow up on this in the next few days. No way they can make it look good. Time for some soul searching.
How many other people in America, black, white, red, yellow, or olive would have been able to get a disorderly conduct charge against them dropped within a week? I also doubt that too many other Americans have the phone number for a Harvard attorney on speed dial.
This case demonstrates a huge difference in how different types of Americans are treated by the justice system. However the difference is between the wealthy and well-connected and the rest of us.
However the difference is between the wealthy and well-connected and the rest of us.
Agreed. he may have been black at the start, but it’s the green that matters.
Oliver: Except to the cops, he was just another black crook. Which is the whole point.
Except… nothing in the police report OR in Gates’ lawyers description of events cites race as the cause of any actions by the cops. From the lawyer’s description:
But, Gates is black, so it must be about race, right?
justadood: The one who should have gotten police scrutiny should have been whoever called in the issue
Yes. Because when someone calls to report what appears to be a crime in progress what you want the cops to do is ignore any possible criminal activity and scrutinize the person making the report.
But, Gates is black, so it must be about race, right?
We don’t have a long tradition of white men in rich neighborhoods being hassled on the likelihood that they’re criminals.
OW: We don’t have a long tradition of white men in rich neighborhoods being hassled on the likelihood that they’re criminals.
How long’s the tradition of those seen breaking into houses being questioned on the likelihood that they are criminals?
I am getting your point, Oliver. Mine is that folks show a willingness to ignore aspects of behavior that are suspicious and an eagerness to cry “racial bias” when it isn’t always called for.
Because when someone calls to report what appears to be a crime in progress what you want the cops to do is ignore any possible criminal activity and scrutinize the person making the report.
C’mon, Sean. He was standing on the front porch with a limo parked in front of the house. He’s not an imposing man by any stretch of the imagination, and uses a cane. He’s also always impeccably dressed.
I’m willing to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, although I think he handled the situation poorly once Gates identified himself. But the neighbor saw a black man struggling to open the front door of his home – in broad daylight – and called the cops.
She should be ashamed of herself.
maybe when asked-he could have just given his ID-maybe for now on -if any man is trying to get into Gates house -just assume its him-let them strip his house dry-people are asked for id w/credit cards, driving issues, to get a pack of smokes-if his house was robbed -would sharpton be on his way in?
Also-im surprised the neighbor called-Cambridge is about the most LIBERAL city in the country-she could have found good in all action going on-criminal or not.
SIMPLE: IF MY NEIGHBOR SEES ANYONE AT MY DOOR-TRYING TO JAR IT OPEN-PLEASE CALL THE COPS.AND IF THAT PERSON REFUSES TO GIVE AN I.D. PLEASE ARREST THEM-EVEN IF ITS ME! I PROMISE I WONT GIVE THE COPS LIP-UNLESS I’VE HAD TOO MANY WILD IRISH ROSES-OR SOME NIGHT TRAIN-AND EXPECT EVERYONE TO RECOGNIZE ME-
Just because he had a driver doesn’t mean he had a stretch limo. Also, Gates had apparently gone around the back of the house and his driver was on the porch trying to break the door open by lunging at it shoulder first. Other reports say that both men were on the porch trying to force the door open shoulder first. Regardless, trying to break the door open by putting your weight into it is not the same as simply fumbling with your keys in the lock. Also, if yo look at the front page of the NY Post, at least one cop on the scene, who appears to have stripes on his arm, is black.
According to every account I’ve read, the neighbor called the police to say that “there were two black men, wearing backpacks, trying to break into a house.” Now, Gates, judging from both pictures from the arrest itself and from various news descriptions, is a frail, old guy who needs a cane to walk. (Somehow, I can’t see him wearing a backpack either….) Yes, unlike his Moroccan driver, Gates happens to be black–however, who in their right mind calls the police on THIS guy? Moreover, what cop in their right mind ARRESTS this guy on HIS property AFTER the ID confirmation? Anybody seeing an obviously frail, 58-year old white guy–with a cane–working on his front door would probably ask if they could help. Similarly, no cop is going to arrest an older, obviously frail white guy (WHO NEEDS A CANE–can’t emphasize that enough) after finding him doing nothing wrong on his own property. It just wouldn’t happen.
I’m a white guy who has sued (and won) on a false arrest claim before–i.e., I know first hand that cops can be jerks to everyone. Still, anyone claiming that race wasn’t also a factor here is being completely disingenuous.
Southern Quaker: C’mon, Sean. He was standing on the front porch with a limo parked in front of the house. He’s not an imposing man by any stretch of the imagination, and uses a cane. He’s also always impeccably dressed.
A limo? His size? His tonsorial habits? None of those mentioned in the articles I saw.
I am getting your point, Oliver.
You honestly don’t seem to be and are going to great lengths to excuse a cop arresting a Harvard professor for the sin of being in his own home.
He’s also always impeccably dressed.
In my experience “impeccably” has invariably been used to describe someone in more formal wear such as at least a suit and tie, and he was actually wearing a polo shirt and slacks. I’d say at best he was casually dressed on this occasion. But then, I’m only going by stuff I actually read and see in photos.
OW: You honestly don’t seem to be and are going to great lengths to excuse a cop arresting a Harvard professor for the sin of being in his own home.
None of the reports from the police or Gates say he was arrested for being in his own home. Police say he was arrested for creating a disturbance. Gates (you’d have to infer this since his lawyer’s statement doesn’t say it straight out) says he was arrested for asking for the cops badge number and name. Yet you and others continue with “for being in his own home”.
If there are any lengths I’m going to for something it’s to avoid making claims that nobody on the scene was making and to avoid speculating.
Right winger “Frank DiSalle”: “I guess if he had a “Prison Wedding” with Big Maurice the other night, he could say he now knew what it was like to be gay in America.”
What is it with right winger’s acceptance (and fascination) with prison rape?
Right wing = sadistic torturers.
Yet you and others continue with “for being in his own home”.
Sean, if a cop comes in your house and demands id from you somehow I don’t think you say “Sure buddy”. Especially not if you’re a black man in America and know that too often you’re automatically a problem.
he was actually wearing a polo shirt and slacks. I’d say at best he was casually dressed on this occasion.
Yes, because all burglars wear a polo shirt and slacks when they break into homes in broad daylight. You’re right, though, it wasn’t a limo – it was a hired car. Sitting out front. While the driver helped Gates bring his luggage into the home.
Are you really willing to argue that the neighbor would have reacted the same way had she seen a casually dressed, 58-year old white man using his shoulder to open a sticky door, while another man carried his luggate? Really?
Taiki:
According to every account I’ve read, the neighbor called the police to say that “there were two black men, wearing backpacks, trying to break into a house.” Now, Gates, judging from both pictures from the arrest itself and from various news descriptions, is a frail, old guy who needs a cane to walk.
In any of the accounts you read did it say that the 77 year old lady who called the police identified the men as “frail” or needing a cane?
Anybody seeing an obviously frail, 58-year old white guy–with a cane–working on his front door would probably ask if they could help.
Quite possibly. But he wasn’t seen to be “working on his front door” was he? Again, the reported facts are being twisted.
Similarly, no cop is going to arrest an older, obviously frail white guy (WHO NEEDS A CANE–can’t emphasize that enough) after finding him doing nothing wrong on his own property.
But the cop didn’t find him doing nothing wrong, did he? He found Gates to be disruptive. (OK, he found Gates talking on the phone and later Gates became disruptive.) Now we can debate whether Gates reaction rose to the level of being disruptive, whether the cop should have handled it differently, whether Gates over-reacted, whether the cop did, etc. (It would be a short debate as I’d likely agree with you that the cop should have reacted differently than he did.) But I’d find it easier to acknowledge that I might agree with you if folks resisted the temptation to see this only as “yet another example of an entirely innocent black man getting harassed because of his race and being put down by The Man.”
I’m a white guy who has sued (and won) on a false arrest claim before–i.e., I know first hand that cops can be jerks to everyone. Still, anyone claiming that race wasn’t also a factor here is being completely disingenuous.
And claiming it was the driving factor is, too.
Police say he was arrested for creating a disturbance.
And under Massachusetts law, it takes a lot more than browbeating a cop in one’s front yard to be convicted of disturbing the peace. Which is why the charges were dropped. That, and the fact that Gates has a high enough profile that the case would have been a huge embarrassment for CPD had it gone to trial.
So what if Gates berated the officer and called him racist? The guy could have walked away. He had no business arresting him.
But the cop didn’t find him doing nothing wrong, did he?
It’s wrong to be talking on the phone in your own home?
He found Gates to be disruptive. (OK, he found Gates talking on the phone and later Gates became disruptive.)
There’s the rub, isn’t it. Gates became irate at being questioned for being in his own home. Can you at least admit that this is an understandable reaction from a man who has lived through Jim Crow, as Gates has? Not to mention the fact that he was jet-lagged from a long overseas trip. So he overreacted.
But the cop overreacted, as well. It should have been clear to him almost immediately that this was not a case of B&E. Once Gates showed the officer his ID, the guy should have apologized and left. But he didn’t. He called for the Harvard campus police to verify Gates’ identity.
Now we can debate whether Gates reaction rose to the level of being disruptive, whether the cop should have handled it differently, whether Gates over-reacted, whether the cop did, etc.
Which is what I thought we were doing.
-Gates overreacted, but his reaction is understandable given his background.
-The cop overreacted to being called a racist and being embarrassed in front of the crowd that had gathered. There was no grounds under Massachusetts law to arrest Gates for disorderly conduct or disturbing the peace.
-The neighbor overreacted in calling the police in the first place. And yes, I do think it is entirely possible that Gates’ race played a factor in her reaction.
OW: Sean, if a cop comes in your house and demands id from you somehow I don’t think you say “Sure buddy”. Especially not if you’re a black man in America and know that too often you’re automatically a problem.
“cop comes in your house and demands id from you” brings up images of a cop entering uninvited and demanding proof of ID without explanation. A confrontational scenario.
However…
From Gates’ lawyer’s statement (emphasis added):
Where in that is the demanding? Where is it not clear to Gates why he’s being asked for ID?
Clearly something happened to really set Gates and/or the officer off, and neither the police report or Gates’ description make it clear as to what. But, again, let’s not try to describe this as someone being accosted in their own home for no other reason than that they were black.
Especially not if you’re a black man in America and know that too often you’re automatically a problem.
Are you assuming I’m not? Or if I’m not, that I’m ignorant of the racial problems in America?
But, again, let’s not try to describe this as someone being accosted in their own home for no other reason than that they were black.
And in the excerpt you posted, the account of what happens shows that Gates provided said ID and was then later arrested, a charge for which the cops dropped the charges today. I find it highly unlikely that Gates would be subject to such rigors if he had been white.
Or if I’m not, that I’m ignorant of the racial problems in America?
In this case it seems you are.
Southern Q: While the driver helped Gates bring his luggage into the home.
Again, you must have access to info I’ve not seen published. Everything I’ve read/seen/heard indicates the call was made while the front door was being forced, not when they were calmly carrying in luggage.
Since the woman was still there once the cop arrived (at which point Gates’ door was un-jammed and his luggage had presumably been carried thru it) we might assume she had seen any subsequent luggage-carrying, could have realized these folks didn’t look like they were breaking in after all and talk the cops of her revised opinion of what was going on oce he arrived.
But that’s making a lot of assumptions, isn’t it?
Are you really willing to argue that the neighbor would have reacted the same way had she seen a casually dressed, 58-year old white man using his shoulder to open a sticky door, while another man carried his luggage? Really?
Perhaps she would have. I can’t say because for sure because I’m the one taking pains not to argue things which aren’t actually known. But she was a 77 year old woman. You going to argue she wouldn’t have called police if she saw men trying to break into a house?
Just another reason we should decriminalize all drugs…The War on Drugs is a failure, and a terrible idea to begin with.
At the very least marijuana should be legalized in the near term..
Are you kidding, News Reference? With all the items being discussed, you go back to my joke from hours ago?
You are a schmendrick, if ever I saw one.
This whole thread has gotten crazy, and you had to drag me into it?
This was a case of H L Gates playing “successful outraged Negro”, and the Cambridge police playing “beleaguered civil servant”: nothing more, nothing less.
Nothing to see here… Move along! Go home, and tell your mother she wants ya…
If a “conservative” is a ‘liberal who’s been mugged’, and a “liberal” is a ‘conservative who’s been arrested’, what do you call a “liberal who’s been arrested” ?
A Criminal Justice System Reform advocate.
Heh.
Southern Q: So he overreacted.
But the cop overreacted, as well.
Please show me anywhere where I’ve said anything other than this myself.
-Gates overreacted, but his reaction is understandable given his background.
-The cop overreacted to being called a racist and being embarrassed in front of the crowd that had gathered.
So Gates overreaction is understandable and forgiven. Perhaps the cop has a background that explains his overreaction. Any allowance to be made for that?
SOMEthing set Gates and/or the cop off. And it isn’t clear from either of their statements what it was. IMHO the whole thing could have been avoided if either side had been more reasonable.
Perhaps the cop was slower to leave because of Gates’ race. Perhaps Gates was quicker to see offense where none was given because of his background. Why is it necessary to assume the former (and to make up things to support that view)?
“In any of the accounts you read did it say that the 77 year old lady who called the police identified the men as “frail” or needing a cane?”
You’re actually proving my point with the above statement. I know nothing about the neighbor who called, except for the fact that he/she told the police “two black men wearing backpacks were attempting to break into a house.” Did she mention one was an old(er) guy with a cane (and that the other was not black but Moroccan)? Apparently, no. Instead, he/she appears to have focused on the race (and only that) of ONE of the people attempting to enter the house, with the other person BBA (black by association). In other words, she/he saw two “black” guys attempting to “break into” (enter) the house–and instead of really looking at the people involved (e.g., at the frail older guy using A CANE to stand/walk), he/she reacted according to his/her stereotypes. Black=Criminal=Police.
Frankly, having lived in university housing before as a faculty member, I just cannot see how this neighbor didn’t know at least Gates’ face. Besides the point, he/she didn’t call to get two young guys arrested. (Heck, I would have called if I saw two young guys trying to force their way into university housing–regardless of their race!) She called to get two “black” people arrested…despite the fact that one wasn’t black, and the other was a weak-looking, older guy with a cane.
I agree with you, though, that this isn’t only about race…but race played a part as well.
In this case it seems you are.
A large concern I have about race relations in America is the speed with which folks do “play the race card”. Either by playing it when there’s no there there, or playing it to blow things out of proportion to what they actually were.
Like the boy crying wolf, it makes it harder to get folks to recognize it when race really is an issue.
Taiki: I know nothing about the neighbor who called, except for the fact that he/she told the police “two black men wearing backpacks were attempting to break into a house.” Did she mention one was an old(er) guy with a cane (and that the other was not black but Moroccan)? Apparently, no. Instead, he/she appears to have focused on the race (and only that)
OK, after all this discussion you still don’t know if the person who called is a he or a she? Yet you know what it was they focused on exclusively?
See, I would have read that as she focused on the “attempting to break into the house” part. (Yes, it was a she, BTW.) That you would focus on the “black men” part, to the complete exclusion of what it was she saw them doing suggest to me that you’re overly eager to focus on any racial part. See my prior comment re: tendency to blow things out of proportion.
Sean, I’ve read several accounts of the incident from various news sources. I also have friends in Massachusetts, one of whom is a lawyer.
The cop screwed up. I have my doubts that, under the same conditions, he would have arrested a frail, 58-year old white man.
The same goes for the neighbor – same conditions, two white men, she in all likelihood would have taken a moment longer to assess the situation before calling the police.
It doesn’t even necessarily make either the cop or the neighbor a racist. They are products of a racist society.
The sad thing is that racism in America can thrive without racists. It doesn’t have to be the KKK burning a cross at your door, or middle class women pulling their children out of the pool when a busload of minority kids show up. Our assumptions about behavior – what is suspicious, whom to trust – are inextricably tied to the stereotypes that still plague us. It’s not even conscious most of the time, making it oh so hard to admit to ourselves, much less to others. And that’s why it is so insidious.
If his house had been broken into he would have been calling the police racial for not arresting them.
Oliver, from reading all your posts, you are the problem.
Right winger “Frank DiSalle” goes from acceptance of prison rape (and prison rape of an innocent person at that) to calling a black man “Negro”.
This is the same right winger that supports parenting rights for rapists.
Anybody know what percentage of the Republican Party reflects those right wing opinions? I’d guess a large majority.
Why is it necessary to assume the former (and to make up things to support that view)?
I’m assuming both, actually. And I don’t feel I’ve “made things up” to support my view. The accounts I’ve read vary slightly in the details. I don’t believe I’ve distorted anything to the degree I could be accused of “making things up.”
Perhaps the cop has a background that explains his overreaction. Any allowance to be made for that?
No, because as an officer of the law he has a much higher degree of responsibility in any altercation to keep his cool and not let personal background interfere. So yes, I am holding him to a higher standard. He’s the guy with the gun and the right to shoot people.
Yeah, cops don’t get to be a-holes because they’ve had a bad day. They’re cops. (And I should note, I think cops are great and I highly admire them for just that reason. It’s not a coincidence that I’m a Superman fanboy.)
Question for the Gates defenders – is there anything he could have done in this situation such that you’d think that the cops *were* justified in arresting him? Or is he in a “can do no wrong” situation once it was determined that it was his house?
(The usual comment applies here – Oliver leaps straight to the conclusion that supports his prejudices, before knowing all the facts. What else is new.)
That’s an easy one, Halpo. He could have layed a hand on the cop or threatened him physically. Neither of which occurred.
Gates didn’t break the law, why should he have been arrested at all?
that supports his prejudices
That’s true. I fucking hate racism and the people who practice it. I’m just biased that way.
‘H L Gates has about as much as common with the average black guy, as that OTHER Gates in Washington State’
But he’s still presumed to be just another Black criminal by his neighbors and the police.
Not that you give a shit.
>He could have layed a hand on the cop or threatened him physically. Neither of which occurred.
But threatening the cop non-physically is ok? (Have you actually read the police report?) Just want to be clear here on what things those of us who happen to be white are supposed to be able to get away with when dealing with cops.
>That’s true. I fucking hate racism and the people who practice it. I’m just biased that way.
And I hate the way that people like you make race such an impossible subject in this country, because you slot everything into your “the man is out to get black people” filing cabinet. It’s too bad that you just make things worse; because you probably mean well.
‘Except… nothing in the police report OR in Gates’ lawyers description of events cites race as the cause of any actions by the cops.’
Which is routine when this sort of stuff happens, right?
‘The suspect, a girlfriend beating rap ‘music’ looking darkie, was driving a car in a neighborhood known to have groups of spear chucking hoodlums loafing around; although exhibiting no criminal behavior, the suspect was wearing what looked to be gang colors, and was subsequently taken into custody when it was confirmed that he was in fact a shiftless coon. Don’t thank me lieutenant; I’m just trying to make a difference.’
‘But, Gates is black, so it must be about race, right?’
I’m sure that had NOTHING to do with the entire incident.
‘Yes. Because when someone calls to report what appears to be a crime in progress ‘
Someone opening a door in the daytime is a crime in progress?
So noone else wants to put an end to the War on Drugs?
‘How long’s the tradition of those seen breaking into houses being questioned on the likelihood that they are criminals?’
You keep implying he was ‘breaking into’ his own home, which is factually incorrect.
‘I’d say at best he was casually dressed on this occasion. But then, I’m only going by stuff I actually read and see in photos.’
Ummm….no you’re not.
‘Are you assuming I’m not? Or if I’m not, that I’m ignorant of the racial problems in America?’
Based on your posts, what do you think?
most of you are idiots. Most burglaries occur in the daytime, the neighbor was being a good neighbor, the cops were doing their job and the professor overreacted because he was being a jerk. None of this would have happened if he would have explained to the cops why it appeared he was breaking into his own house. He than could have expressed his disappointment to the neighbor who would have apologized. Most clear thinking white people in this country know that black people are given alot more slack in just about every facet of our society because of the fear of being called a racist. I don’t want to shock anyone but most clearheaded white people in this country know that there is a disproportionate number of black arrests in this country because of — are you ready– their behavior!!!
Sean “OK, after all this discussion you still don’t know if the person who called is a he or a she?”
Frankly, I don’t care about the neighbor’s gender, body type, love life, hobbies, age, secret fetishes, etc. at all. Why the heck should I? The only thing relevant to this discussion is that the individual called the cops on a frail, older guy leaning on a cane. Have you seen Gates’ arrest pictures? He looks far older than his real age. Oh, wait, he’s black–which makes him “dangerous” (and his Moroccan driver “black” as well). Better get the cops!
Haplo9 “Question for the Gates defenders – is there anything he could have done in this situation such that you’d think that the cops *were* justified in arresting him?”
Not the most relevant of questions–of course there are a number of things he could have done which would have necessitated his arrest! However, he didn’t do them. Now, here’s a question for you, “Would a white person of similar standing in the community have been arrested at his own home for doing something similar?” I think the answer pretty obvious.
Again, I can quite believe that, after showing the officer his ID, Gates did say the things he’s accused of saying. However, NONE of the stuff he’s even accused of saying justifies either the arrest or the charge. I wouldn’t have been arrested in a similar situation (i.e., after telling an officer, who won’t leave you house even after confirming your identity, that he’s racist), and neither would you. Sounds like the cop wanted to make a statement against an uppity black, and put him under arrest…when the correct response would have been just to walk away (after confirming Gates’ identity).
So funny and predictable to see wingers defend the cops on this one. Guy was on his private residence and the cops didn’t have a warrant. Total violation of his Constitutional Rights.
I guess if Professor Gates had had a gun on him that would have made the cops at fault. Or if he’d been white, obviously.
Not that you give a shit.
You don’t know what I care about, or who my friends are, but I can tell you, none of us ever palled around with Ivy League professors.
Let me tell you, if you said, “This is what happens to a poor man( or an Italian ) ( or a senior citizen )” You’d still be handcuffed in the back seat.
I know they didn’t let me wear my cuffs in the front, and I was a 61 year old asthmatic white guy. I spent 24 hours in jail because I was arrested after the “lawyers went home” ( 12:45 pm ), and then got $500 bail. I wasn’t allowed to take the medication in my property envelope. A brand new hooded sweatshirt worth $42 disappeared. Even though the bail was paid, I still had to take a 4 hour round trip to the Penitentiary and back to town again.
That’s what happens when you’re white, and you’re arrested in America in 2008. Pardon me if I am lacking in empathy for Professor Gates.
What he should have said is: ‘There are one million innocent black men in jail in this country”
Now that would have been funny.
I don’t get it. Please explain. No, wait. Please don’t bother. Thanks in advance.
Question for the Gates defenders – is there anything he could have done in this situation such that you’d think that the cops *were* justified in arresting him?
Um, broken the law? I’m going to go with broken the law.
Questions for the Arresting Cop in Question defenders: Do you usually vote Republican? Do you regularly watch Fox News? Do you think that Rush is Teh r0xx0rs?
Frank, you’ve convinced me: black college professors can be treated like shit by the cops, but so can white assholes in hoodies! Racism? Bah!
Gabriel, I agree with you man, we should end the war on drugs. Now why are you bringing that up on this thread?
Wilbur, if you mean, sometimes a cigar is just a smoke – yes .
No, Frank, cigars are always penises. Always.
Most clear thinking white people in this country know that black people are given alot more slack in just about every facet of our society
Black folks get more slack from cops? What country do you live in?
If you’re white – it’s your fault. If you’re black – someone else is racist.
How conveeeeeeeeeeeenient!
Is the guy for real? Ever heard of “Hide a Key” asshole? (not that a college professor would ever think of such a thing)
As far as im concerned he should be thankful someone cared enough to call the police in the first place… Maybe next time no one will give a shit and his house will get broke into for real…
How about a thanks for getting here so quickly and good looking out Officers instead of his militant attitude…
Right winger “Frank DiSalle” has a long list of despicable beliefs but until now I didn’t include blatant racism on the list, it oddly kind of surprises me.
On the other hand, considering “Frank DiSalle’s” persistently sick, warped outlook on life, it doesn’t surprise me at all that right winger “Frank DiSalle” thinks prison rape of innocent prisoners is both acceptable and funny.
Abu Ghraib was not an aberration, it was a symptom of what the right wing movement has degenerated into.
Even five years later I’m still shocked that Republicans voted Bush back into office after the Abu Ghraib sex-abuse photos came out.
Republican leader Rush Limbaugh even defended the sex-abuse photos as ‘frat’ humor.
And here is right winger “Frank DiSalle” annoyed that his sick “joke” about prison rape of an innocent prisoner was pointed out.
“Gabriel, I agree with you man, we should end the war on drugs. Now why are you bringing that up on this thread?”
Because if you do away with the War on Drugs that 1 million number for black men in jail..would be reduced significantly. It’s absurd that we’re throwing people in jail for what they do to themselves in their own homes….
“Gabriel McKee”, yes, it’s absurd that America throws more people in jail (as a percentage of population) than Totalitarian China or the increasingly repressive Russia.
It’s absurd that the legal system is stacked against blacks (white coke dealers historically got a relative slap on the hand compared to black crack dealers).
Many here would agree that the ‘war on drugs’ was a misguided failure.
Many here would even vote to legalize (most) drugs.
It just came off like a strange connection, “Gabriel McKee”, to connect a prestigious black professor who was arrested for hurting a cop’s feelings to the ‘war on drugs’.
I can understand your connection, now, but without connecting those dots for me it came off like, uhm, well, the kind of profiling that would get a prestigious black man arrested for hurting the feelings of a cop who had just intruded, uninvited, into that man’s home after accusing him of not belonging in his own home.
This essay should give racists like Frank and the other wingnuts here pause and make them reevaluate their understanding of the world. But it won’t.
You know what the real problem is, Mike? Scumbags like you hiding behind a keyboard miles away get to call me a racist. I have probably done more for brothers and sisters in my life then you’ll ever dream of.
If you were within arm’s length you never would have got past “racists like Frank”…
Punk
Violent right wing extremist “Frank DiSalle” apparently doesn’t realize that his calling someone a “negro” (as he did above) comes off as racist to a lot of people.
And for the record, “Frank DiSalle”, threatening violence as you just did again makes me wonder if you spent your time in jail because of assaults.
I know exactly what the context of “outraged successful negro” is. It’s you and your white bread friends that don’t know what it means. And I don’t need Joe College Mall Rats telling me what racism is. I grew up in the projects.
News Reference, why don’t you go get a steaming hot cup of shut the f*ck up?
You know what’s very interesting? This paragraph from Mr Terry’s essay:
Sound like anyone you know, News Reference ?
Right winger “Frank DiSalle” makes me an offer: “News Reference, why don’t you go get a steaming hot cup of shut the f*ck up?”
I’m assuming that comes in an extra grande?
“Frank”, you might want to take your own advice as I’m pretty sure you just invented a social category in order to attach a demeaning racist term to it.
LOL, I think right winger “Frank DiSalle” is complaining about being ‘profiled’…
…and in a post where he just invented a social category with a demeaning label that erases a person’s individuality to replace it with “Frank’s” crude prejudices about a group.
(Perhaps it’s an age thing? A culture thing? Google doesn’t seem to be aware of the [bigoted?] category that right winger”Frank DiSalle” has now repeated.)
You know what I think ? I think you’re annoying, and you are deliberately annoying. So, I leave the thread in your capable hands. After all, it’s not like anything anyone else says matters to you.
“but I can tell you, none of us ever palled around with Ivy League professors.”
Stop the presses.
DHS releases a report that far right extremists might be getting recruited into extremist groups and everyone slightly left of Goebbels left whine about “profiling”.
Funny that.
‘That’s what happens when you’re white, and you’re arrested in America in 2008. Pardon me if I am lacking in empathy for Professor Gates.’
What were you arrested for?
‘I have probably done more for brothers and sisters in my life then you’ll ever dream of.’
And what might that be?
1) Not for breaking and entering into my College-provided home with the help of my paid driver.
2) Why would you care what I have done for brothers and sisters? Is it your plan to grade my accomplishment? Perhaps to insinuate that I am lying about it? Why do you want to know?
Violent right winger criminal “Frank DiSalle”: “I leave the thread”
Liar.
You couldn’t “leave this thread” for even two hours.
Do I get a refund on that extra grande “steaming hot cup of shut the f*ck up?”?
A rain check?
Prorate it at least?
Optimistically speaking, it’s only half empty…
Southern Q: The cop screwed up. I have my doubts that, under the same conditions, he would have arrested a frail, 58-year old white man.
The same goes for the neighbor – same conditions, two white men, she in all likelihood would have taken a moment longer to assess the situation before calling the police.
I agree the cop screwed up. (I suspect Gates over reacted as well.)
The rest, I think, pretty well sums up the crux of the difference in our views on this. I am not at all certain that the cop would have handled the situation differently if it was a white man. That if a white man was yelling at him and behaving as Gates had his reaction may very well have been similar to what it was.
The same goes for the neighbor. I’ve seen no reason to think that in all likelihood she would have reacted differently were the men she saw breaking into a house white men.
It’s not even conscious most of the time, making it oh so hard to admit to ourselves, much less to others. And that’s why it is so insidious.
And it goes both ways. The tendency to cry “racism” where no actually exists, or to see more than is actually there, is equally insidious. And I’m always a bit surprised by those who can see the racism, but not that other side.
jrfunkenstein: ‘Except… nothing in the police report OR in Gates’ lawyers description of events cites race as the cause of any actions by the cops.’
Which is routine when this sort of stuff happens, right?
Except… nothing in the police report OR in Gates’ lawyers description of events cites race
jrfunkenstein: Someone opening a door in the daytime is a crime in progress?
When they’re using their shoulder to force the door open, yeah. A possible crime in progress.
I know you’re conditioned to see the cops as completely in the wrong because it was a black man that was involved (who clearly couldn’t have been doing anything that might even appear suspicious) but could you at least not be so obvious in your spin?
See, this is an example of the “making stuff up” that I’ve mentioned before.
jrfunkenstein: Ummm….no you’re not.
Ummm….yes, I am.
Based on your posts, what do you think?
Based on my posts I think anyone would be hard pressed to say with assurance what my race, age, marital status, parental status, sex, sexual preference, citizenship, occupation or location are.
But I do love seeing the occasional assumptions that are made.
Taiki: Frankly, I don’t care about the neighbor’s gender, body type, love life, hobbies, age, secret fetishes, etc. at all. Why the heck should I? The only thing relevant to this discussion is that the individual called the cops on a frail, older guy leaning on a cane.
And here I thought she called the cops on two guys she saw forcing the door of house. You make it sound like she saw poor Gates limping up his driveway and that’s why she decided to call the cops.
Now, here’s a question for you, “Would a white person of similar standing in the community have been arrested at his own home for doing something similar?” I think the answer pretty obvious.
So do I, but I suspect I have a different answer than you.
Again, I can quite believe that, after showing the officer his ID, Gates did say the things he’s accused of saying. However, NONE of the stuff he’s even accused of saying justifies either the arrest or the charge.
Agreed. I also think the cop could have handled the situation better. I’m just not convinced that, confronted with a white person behaving in a similarly abusive manner, that the cop would have reacted significantly differently.
Charles Monette: Is the guy for real? Ever heard of “Hide a Key” asshole? (not that a college professor would ever think of such a thing)
Gates had a key. It’s how he let himself in through teh back door. It’s that his front door was jammed the caused the problems.
But don’t let your complete lack of knowledge of the facts stop you from jumping into the conversations. Seems the thing to do these days.
Mike: This essay should give … wingnuts here pause and make them reevaluate their understanding of the world. But it won’t.
Why would it? It’s written from as biased and partisan a point of view as what the left-leaning wingnuts here rail against on the right.
“Likely imagining herself as some courageous vigilante protecting the sanctity of her exclusive neighborhood to the unending praise of her grateful neighbors,”
“Gates, understandably exhausted from the return flight from China he had just taken, responded to the officer’s insistent questioning of his identity with frustration”
Terry’s making stuff up here because it supports the view he wants to have. He doesn’t know what was in the woman’s mind, but that doesn’t stop him from suggesting it was an extremly self-serving desire for popularity. No report I’ve seen, including the statement from Gates’ own lawyer, suggests Officer Crowley knew Gates had just completed a long flight or describes the officer’s questioning as anything near “insistent”.
Race is complicated in America. Bias exists and blacks and other minorities have been unfairly treated. But when folks who want to point that out resort to overstating their case they only serve to undermine their credibility. They demonstrate the same prejudices they are supposedly condemning in others.
Frank DiSalle: <i.You know what I think ? I think you’re annoying, and you are deliberately annoying. So, I leave the thread in your capable hands. After all, it’s not like anything anyone else says matters to you.
Word.
And a thing is, I’m more likely to agree with “News Reference”‘s views than Frank’s on many subjects discussed here on OW. But, gods, he is annoying.
because you slot everything into your “the man is out to get black people” filing cabinet.
Dude, The Man is capitalized. Get it right.
Most clear thinking white people in this country know that black people are given alot more slack in just about every facet of our society because of the fear of being called a racist.
Wow. Really? Which country is that? Cracker Barrel Country?
That’s what happens when you’re white, and you’re arrested in America in 2008. Pardon me if I am lacking in empathy for Professor Gates.
Not seeing a connection there, Frank. Sounds more like that’s what happens when your being a belligerent dick and you’re arrested in America in 2008. And lawyers where you live go home at 12:45 PM? Pretty short day, I’d say.
If you’re white – it’s your fault. If you’re black – someone else is racist.
Are you saying it was not your fault that you got arrested? Are you saying that racism played a part in your arrest?
We’re gonna need more info.
What a pitiful society we are. Just listen to the invective over what any normal person would understand to be a very embarrassing and humiliating situation for Prof. Gates. Race aside, who among you would relish (as some of you seem to want us to believe) being arrested in your own home? Now let’s add race back into the equation and it is doubly difficult to side with the police in this particular case. Gates did properly identify himself after all. And to the well meaning caller; get to know your neighbors—black and white alike.
Hmm… now it turns out that the arresting officer is not only an Obama supporter, but spent five years teaching a course on racial profiling at a police academy.
But I forget. He’s a white cop, so by definition he’s a racist pig.
J.
The police had every right to ask questions on a crime in progress. There had already been a break in at his house this year when he was gone. The cop didn’t know if there was people hiding inside and was wanting to know how many people were in the house for the safety of Gates.
So, why couldn’t Gates just shut up and answer the questions rather then get up in the cops face with this race crap and the “do you know who I am” garbage. This stuff is going on way too much and people are sick of it. Just like the black Nascar worker suing for millions and winning. She was just saying whatever to bleed Nascar, and it worked. Is it any wonder if people are losing respect for blacks more and more. They think they have a free ride coming to them and most will lie to get one. Now Gates will sue this police dept. which will mean laying off some good cops to pay for the legal fees and resulting lawsuit damage. When does the bs end folks. Lets stop playing into whiners demands and tell them to grow a pair!