Remember how we totally solved racism that one time?
Black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. is accusing a Massachusetts police department of racism after being arrested while trying to get into his locked home near Harvard University.Police say they were called to the home Thursday afternoon after a woman reported seeing a man try to pry open the front door.
They say that they ordered the man to identify himself and that Gates refused. According to a police report, Gates then called the officer a racist and said, ‘This is what happens to black men in America.’
UPDATE: I read the story from the Boston Globe and it doesn’t sound any better for the cops. How the heck do you think someone is supposed to react when they make you out to be the bad guy when you’re in your own home? Perhaps if too many cops out there stopped always assuming that the black person was the perpetrator…
sundown town on the march
So let me get this right. A person is seen trying to break into a house and when the cops arrive refuses to identify himself. And that makes the cops racist.
Had he said “I’m Henry Gates and this is my home. I’ve locked myself out.” (a perfectly normal, reasonable way to respond, IMHO) and THEN the cops harassed him (say, with a “We don’t believe a black man owns property in this neighborhood” attitude) I could see he might have a point.
But with the (admittedly very few) facts as reported? I see someone eager to claim victimhood.
It was noted elsewhere…. Cop walks up to an elderly, impeccably-dressed man, in front of that man’s home, and demands ID….and the man *refuses*??
yeah, riiiight.
I’m willing to accept the possibility of a neighbor not recognizing Dr. Gates, but come on…this old gentleman a day-time catburglar/houserobber? I’m more willing to believe the cop is an asshole and lied in his report than I am Dr. Gates being combative…
Yeah, boston.com has different details
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/harvard.html
(via coates)
There seems to be more to the story but it also seems that it’s going to be a matter of who people believe.
Oliver’s title is a little misleading as Gates was not arrested for “trying to get into his own home” but rather he was arrested for disorderely conduct after supposedly yelling and screaming at the police officer who responded to the initial break-in call.
If you believe the police version of events, the officer was satisfied that it was Gates and was merely attempting to leave while Gates continued to yell and scream.
Better link here with a direct link to the police report:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/harvard.html
If things were as the police claim, they were not racist. But that’s the key.
I have an arrest report that I will save for the rest of my life. According to the police in this arrest report, I was “disturbing the peace,” police asked me to leave an area repeatedly, I refused, and they arrested me.
The truth? *I* asked the cops if they wanted us to leave, they said no, “we want ID from everyone,” I truthfully said I didnt have any (I was a teenager), they searched me and arrested me.
Cops lie. Routinely.
These cops may NOT be lying, it’s entirely possible Gates was indignant and saw this as standing up for his right to refuse police questioning… but the bottom line is, if its cops’ word against a regular joe’s word, regular joe always gets the benefit of the doubt over the cops – even WITHOUT the anecdotal evidence of cops lying.
The King’s men need evidence – the King’s mens’ word that someone deserves to be incarcerated is not enough. We fought a war about that shit.
Remember back in the 80’s when the right wing used to illustrate how evil the Soviet Union was by saying that anywhere in the Soviet Union you went you had to produce your “papers”?
I do.
Yeah, strange times…
If you believe the police version of events, the officer was satisfied that it was Gates and was merely attempting to leave while Gates continued to yell and scream.
Gates was in his own front yard. Jay, is it against the law where you live to shout in your own yard? And as far as “attempting” to leave goes, I call b.s. No one was stopping the officer from leaving, so if he was “attempting” to leave, he did a poor job of it.
If I was locked out of my house, I may be yelling and hitting things too. But, I’m white, so I’m probably cool.
I blame Deval Patrick.
Gates was in his own front yard. Jay, is it against the law where you live to shout in your own yard?
Quaker, Gates was not in his own front yard at the time he started to yell at the cop. They were inside the house. It was because Gates was yelling and screaming that the cop left and Gates apparently continued to yell and scream when they got outside. And if your yelling constitutes disorderly behavior, then yes, it is against the law. If stood in my front yard, screaming at everybody that went by, sooner or later, somebody would call the cops.
Read the report. I’m not making any definitive conclusions. Maybe the cop was lying. Maybe he wasn’t. Maybe Gates was lying. Maybe he wasn’t. I don’t know as I wasn’t there.
And I didn’t say anybody was stopping the cop from leaving so cut the bullshit ok? The word ‘attempting’ does not indicate that somebody was forcefully holding back for crying out loud.
So the cop arrested him because the cop’s feelings were hurt?
And the word ‘attempting’ seems to imply that there is some challenge involved.
According to the police report there were numerous officers present and, more significantly for those who will always assume cops are lying, eight civilian witnesses (”Additionally, the caller, Ms Walen and at least seven unidentified passers-by were looking in the direction of Gates, who had followed me outside the residence.”).
Certainly with so many observers present the investigation that is underway should be able to clarify what happened. In the meantime, from all info that seems to be available at this point (and it’s still quite incomplete) I don’t see the overt racism that folks seem to be pointing to.
To those of whom want to easily dismiss what most of us consider typical, especially for Boston, please allow me to fill in the gaps. According to other sources, Gates was IN HIS HOME when arrested and produced two forms of identification. So, before “you people” Scottsboro Case this (go look it up), please try and acknowledge how many times have your neighbors called the police on you as you try to enter your own home?
I know, I know…some of you just really really want to come to the rescue of the police..because gosh darnit racism is dead! Right? It died the day we all started using the same funeral homes right?
Wow. And in Boston too. Shocker.
Gates was not in his own front yard at the time he started to yell at the cop. They were inside the house.
Inside?
Read the report.
OK, I did. And I’m confused. The officer forgets to mention how he came to be inside the house. He wrote that he asked Gates to step outside. Then, all of a sudden, they’re inside.
Did Gates invite the officer in? Or did the officer enter on his own accord?
They were inside the house. It was because Gates was yelling and screaming that the cop left and Gates apparently continued to yell and scream when they got outside.
By this time, according to the police report, the officer is convinced that Dr. Gates is in his own home. Yet for some reason, Dr. Gates’ loudness constitutes a breach of the public peace with only one remedy–arrest. Does anyone suppose that Dr. Gates would have continued to cause a disturbance after the officer’s departure? If not, then the obvious solution to the “disturbance” is for the officer to leave the citizen’s home.
Of course, one might conclude that Dr. Gates would continue to disturb the peace even after the officer’s departure and an arrest was the only way to end the trouble. That conclusion would entail some entertaining assumptions.
Fill us in, why don’t you?
Sean, I can’t seem to reconcile your last sentence with your first.
I blame Deval Patrick.
You would.
Quaker: Sean, I can’t seem to reconcile your last sentence with your first.
I’d be happy to clarify what I’ thinking, but I’m not seeing an obvious contradiction in the first/last in either of my posts. I don’t see your puzzlement.
And the word ‘attempting’ seems to imply that there is some challenge involved.
Then you need to go and look up the word ‘attempting’ because neither you nor Quaker seem to know the definition.
And I’m confused. The officer forgets to mention how he came to be inside the house. He wrote that he asked Gates to step outside. Then, all of a sudden, they’re inside.
And why does this befuddle you? Gates opened the door and at that point, it wasn’t clear if he was indeed the resident of the house, so it would seem only natural that they would both wind up inside. I’m not sure exactly what it is you’re trying to say here.
By this time, according to the police report, the officer is convinced that Dr. Gates is in his own home. Yet for some reason, Dr. Gates’ loudness constitutes a breach of the public peace with only one remedy–arrest.
Ok, it wasn’t just “loudness” as was told in the report. And as the report also says, the officer warned him not once, but TWICE that Gates behavior was disorderly (you can go and look up what disorderly conduct is and IF the officer’s report is true, then Gates behavior certainly seems to fit the description). He didn’t just decide to arrest Gates because he was being loud.
If not, then the obvious solution to the “disturbance” is for the officer to leave the citizen’s home.
This is the stupidest thing I ever read. So if a cop comes to my home to investigate a reported incident and I take offense and start calling him a racist, a dirty cop, and going on and on screaming and yelling in full view of other officers and witnesses, the cop is supposed to just run to his car and drive away as that is the best remedy for ending the disorderly conduct and hope I don’t continue so that he doesn’t have to be called back?
Why didn’t Gates just drop it when he saw the officer was convinced nothing was wrong and and decided to leave?
I don’t know that I would accuse the cop of racism here.
The neighbor who called the police OTOH… because we all know that elderly black men regularly break into houses in Cambridge.
Oh and before anybody gets too crazy, I once had to prove to a Sheriff’s deputy that I was allowed to be in my own home. One time I locked the door from the garage into my house with the keys inside. So I went around the back to go in through the lanai. My house was on a golf course and did this in full view of some golfers. I suspect they called the police when they saw me try one set of sliding doors and seeing it was locked and then getting in through the other set. 10 minutes later I had two Sheriff’s deputies at my door who ordered me to come outside and show them identification. Once I did, and they were convinced I was legally allowed to be there, they were on their way.
No fuss. No problems.
Jay, I agree, from the perspective of a middle class white woman who has never been harassed because of my race, Gates probably over-reacted.
But then, I’m a middle-class white woman who’s never been harassed because of my race.
Right winger “Jay”: “I had two Sheriff’s deputies at my door who ordered me to come outside and show them identification. Once I did… No fuss. No problems.”
It’s always interesting to hear of right winger’s subservience to authority figures.
Was it lawful for Officers to order you out of your own home?
It was my understanding that it’s not. Things like that used to require warrants (until right wingers shredded that legal protection).
From my experience with cops (many of whom have been excellent professionals) there are many cops who falsely cite “laws” that don’t exist in order to exert authority they otherwise wouldn’t have.
In this case there was a suspected burglary and someone apparently trying to ‘pry’ their way into the home so there are a different set of circumstances than what might otherwise merit a warrant.
The Officer may have been professionally discharging his duties, but it’s still stinky getting a cop demands when all you are doing is ‘attempting’ to get into your own home.
Ideally the Officer would have been professional and the home owner would recognize that the Officer is trying to protect that person’s home as well as anyone in the home.
News Ref: Was it lawful for Officers to order you out of your own home?
I don’t know for certain. But under the circumstances described, where the police have reason to suspect a crime is in progress, I don’t believe the cops have to wait for a warrant before acting.
And certainly the reasonable thing to do would be to talk to the cops, explain the situation, and let everyone go on their merry way. And if, at that point, the cops don’t go on their merry way, then you might have grounds for a complaint. But to be obstructionist when a reasonable, non-biased, non-bigoted cop has reason to suspect a crime might be being committed just because you can shows a certain amount of un-reasoning bigotry (of cops) on the part of the homeowner.
News Ref: The Officer may have been professionally discharging his duties, but it’s still stinky getting a cop demands when all you are doing is ‘attempting’ to get into your own home.
Ideally the Officer would have been professional and the home owner would recognize that the Officer is trying to protect that person’s home as well as anyone in the home.
Yes. Our postings must have crossed. Nice to see you saw reason in the few minutes between your postings.
I reserve the right to yell at cops inside my own home.
“Disturbing the peace” is a bullshit charge. 2% of the time it means you were a loud drunk at 3AM in the park who needed to be arrested. 98% of the time it’s cop language for “he pissed me off.”
98% of the time it’s cop language for “he pissed me off.”
Indeed.
From a friend who is a Massachusetts lawyer:
To prove it [a charge of disturbing the peace], the Commonwealth would have to show that Prof. Gates either engaged in fighting or threatening, or engaged in violent or tumultuous behavior, or created a hazardous or physically offensive condition by an act that served no legitimate purpose of the defendant’s; that his actions were reasonably likely to affect the public; and that he either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.
I’ve long held that it is an abuse of police power to arrest someone simply for insulting the police. Not to mention a violation of the First Amendment.
And why does this befuddle you? Gates opened the door and at that point, it wasn’t clear if he was indeed the resident of the house, so it would seem only natural that they would both wind up inside. I’m not sure exactly what it is you’re trying to say here.
What am I trying to say? The officer, in his very detailed recollection and retelling of events neglected a rather important detail–how he got in the house.
Fourth Amendment, Jay. Ever hear of it?
Southern Q: I’ve long held that it is an abuse of police power to arrest someone simply for insulting the police.
Indeed. As it is stupid to insult the police simply for trying to verify your home was not being robbed.
so it would seem only natural that they would both wind up inside.
Natural?
It’s “natural” if Dr. Gates invited the officer in. It’s “natural” if Dr. Gates gave his assent to the officer’s request.
The officer doesn’t tell us whether either of those conditions occurred. I wonder why.
@Sean:
Your first sentence from 4:59:
According to the police report there were numerous officers present
And your last:
I don’t see the overt racism
Why do you suppose “numerous” officers responded to a report of a black man entering a house?
Indeed. As it is stupid to insult the police simply for trying to verify your home was not being robbed.
I don’t disagree that Gates over-reacted. But I suspect neither of us can speak to the emotional reaction of a middle-aged black man being confronted (once again) by the police questioning his right to be in his own home.
Under Massachusetts law, in particular, it is pretty clear that you cannot arrest someone for disorderly conduct simply for being a loud a$$hole.
Quaker in a B: Why do you suppose “numerous” officers responded to a report of a black man entering a house?
Ah. OK. Perhaps “several” would have been a better choice of words on my part than “numerous”, the latter having connotations of a larger number.
The point I was trying to make was that there were more people present than just the one reporting officer, so there should be several witnesses that could shed like on what actually happened.
And, if you read the articles and actual police report that is available via the links other commenters already provided, you wouldn’t see any claims that the additional officers were not “respond[ing] to a report of a black man entering a house”. The initial officer responded to a call for a possible break in in progress and “Upon learning that Gates was affiliated with Harvard, I radioed and requested the presence of the Harvard University Police.”
I don’t know what authority the Harvard Univ Police have or why they would be called. Perhaps it is normal procedure when city cops respond to an incident involving someone associated with Harvard. In any event it appears from the police report that more cops were called not becuase he was black, but because he was associated with Harvard.
I’ve taken some pains in my earlier posts to acknowledge the significant lack of facts known and that, as more comes to light, it is possible the police were at fault in some way. But based on the info currently available I don’t see the racism that others are claiming. And I don’t see the benefit provided, either in this specific case or in race relations in general, when folks make unsupported claims such as additional officers were called because there was “a report of a black man entering a house.”
Southern Q: I don’t disagree that Gates over-reacted. But I suspect neither of us can speak to the emotional reaction of a middle-aged black man being confronted (once again) by the police questioning his right to be in his own home.
I think it all would come down to just how Gates was confronted. If it was “Excuse me, sir. We’ve reports of an attempted break in here. Could you identify yourself?” then yes, he over-reacted. If it was the other end of the spectrum, more “Boy, you get out of that house and show me your ID!!” then his response may be quite understandable.
At this point, none of the reports I’ve seen make it clear as to what really happened. The police report gives one side. I haven’t seen Gates’ side yet.
t’s always interesting to hear of right winger’s subservience to authority figures.
Was it lawful for Officers to order you out of your own home?
But they didn’t know it was my home and were investigating a possible crime. What if my home truly was being burglarized and cops who were called in just took the person’s word for it that they were lawfully allowed to be there?
I knew why the cops were there. Was it really worthy getting all up in their faces? No. As soon as they told me they were investigating a potential burglary, I showed my identification, explained the situation to them and they said, “Thank you for your cooperation” and left. No big deal.
Now, had the cops come to my house and said, “We want you to come outside because we suspect you have drugs in your possession” I would have told them to take a freaking hike and come back when they have a warrant.
See the difference?
that his actions were reasonably likely to affect the public; and that he either intended to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly created a risk of public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm.
And I would say that standing outside and shouting at a police officer that he’s a racist with a group of other people and other police officers standing around certainly fits within that description.
Fourth Amendment, Jay. Ever hear of it?
There’s no fourth amendment violation here. All they were doing was determining if Gates was indeed who he truly said he was.
Why do you suppose “numerous” officers responded to a report of a black man entering a house?
First of all, they weren’t responding to a call of a “black man entering a house.” They were responding to possible break-in (the NY Times has more saying that Gates cab driver helped him force the door open which was jammed shut) and burglary for which “numerous” officers would respond regardless of the persons race.
I’ve long held that it is an abuse of police power to arrest someone simply for insulting the police. Not to mention a violation of the First Amendment.
That’s not what happened. If you notice, the officer didn’t make any threats of arrest while inside the home. It was only until it was taken outside and Gates continued to behave in a disorderly manner that he was warned. And then warned again.
It’s like a guy being told to pull over by the police over and over and instead taking off and then wondering why he was charged with felony evasion.
The issue comes down to this: Gates claimed he showed the officer his drivers license and college ID, but said the officer did not believe him. The officer claims Gates initially refused to show his ID.
The best way to determine who is bullshitting is to take a look at Sergeant Crowley’s jacket. Stuff like this happens in patterns. If he has a history of complaints and accusations of behavior like that, then it would be safe to say the guy probably acted like a jerkoff and should face some kind of disciplinary action. If not, then it would be safe to say that Mr. Gates overreacted.
And I would say that standing outside and shouting at a police officer that he’s a racist with a group of other people and other police officers standing around certainly fits within that description.
Except, Jay, that is not how the law has been interpreted by the Massachusetts courts. See Model Jury Instructions on MA Disorderly conduct here; see also Commonwealth v. Lopiano, 60 Mass. App. Ct. 723,725-726, 805 N.E.2d 522, 525 (2004).
I knew why the cops were there. Was it really worthy getting all up in their faces? No. …
Now, had the cops come to my house and said, “We want you to come outside because we suspect you have drugs in your possession” I would have told them to take a freaking hike and come back when they have a warrant.
Would you not agree that you or I might not have the same life experience in dealing with the police as a 60-year old black man, and therefore might react differently than Professor Gates in the given circumstances?
For some reason, this seems relevant information:
Massachusetts political demographics:
Senators: 2, both Democrats
US Representatives: 10, all Democrats
Governor: Deval Patrick (D) (also black)
Lt. Governor: Democrat
Secretary of the Commonwealth: Democrat
Attorney General: Democrat
State Treasurer: Democrat
State Auditor: Democrat
Governor’s Council: 8 members, all Democrats
State Senate: 85% Democrat
State House: 88.125% Democrat
2008 Election results: Obama, 61.8%, McCain 35.99%.
Racism? In the bluest of blue states? Inconceivable! This stuff is only supposed to happen in the South! This is Red State material!
J.
For some reason, this seems relevant information:
For some reason that is only in your mind, perhaps.
I notice you didn’t bother to answer the actual relevant questions I asked.
Racism? In the bluest of blue states? Inconceivable! This stuff is only supposed to happen in the South! This is Red State material!
Indeed. Boston, as with many, many American (and foreign) cities has a lot of racists and a racist history.
Tell you what, I’ll wager the cops vote Republican. I bet they watch Fox News. I’ll make that bet any day, any time. I like those odds. You?
‘So let me get this right. A person is seen trying to break into a house and when the cops arrive refuses to identify himself. And that makes the cops racist.’
Let me see how you got this utterly wrong; a person is seen by someone else, likely a White woman, and because he’s a Black man in an upscale neighborhood, he is PRESUMED to be breaking into the home he actually LIVES IN, and when confronted by police, probably not for the first time in his life, he gets ‘uppity’ and basically challenges the officers to justify why he has to prove he lives in his own home, EVEN AFTER HAVING DONE SO.
I bet you’ve lost count how many times this has happened to you, huh Sean D?
Read the link from the Boston Globe; the ‘admittedly very few’ facts don’t wash with your interpretation at all.
‘If I was locked out of my house, I may be yelling and hitting things too. But, I’m white, so I’m probably cool.’
The Professor was already IN his home JW.
‘Quaker, Gates was not in his own front yard at the time he started to yell at the cop. They were inside the house. It was because Gates was yelling and screaming that the cop left and Gates apparently continued to yell and scream when they got outside.’
And the crime in all of that is what exactly?
‘According to the police report there were numerous officers present and, more significantly for those who will always assume cops are lying, eight civilian witnesses (”Additionally, the caller, Ms Walen and at least seven unidentified passers-by were looking in the direction of Gates, who had followed me outside the residence.”).
Certainly with so many observers present the investigation that is underway should be able to clarify what happened. In the meantime, from all info that seems to be available at this point (and it’s still quite incomplete) I don’t see the overt racism that folks seem to be pointing to.’
So according to numerous cops and the bitch that called them, plus her equally nervous neighbors who had no idea this criminal Professor who happens to be Black LIVED in their community, were all witnesses to the disorderly conduct of someone being arrested for being inside his own home?
Can’t imagine anyone having a problem with the veracity of their testimony.
‘No fuss. No problems.’
Wow, to be Black like you Jay; you’re a credit to your race.
‘In this case there was a suspected burglary and someone apparently trying to ‘pry’ their way into the home so there are a different set of circumstances than what might otherwise merit a warrant.’
From the report:
‘Police arrived at Gates’s Ware Street home near Harvard Square at 12:44 p.m. to question him. Gates, director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard, had trouble unlocking his door after it became jammed.’
UNLOCKING his door, not ‘prying’ his way in.
Why the fuck would the cops even HAVE to lie; look how easily their ardent defenders will do it for them.
Cops lie. Routinely.
The truest comment here.
There’s no fourth amendment violation here. All they were doing was determining if Gates was indeed who he truly said he was.
The police were inside his house, Jay. How’d they get there? If they entered without his invitation or permission, I’d say Dr. Gates was not “secure in his person, house, papers, and effects.”
The officer’s report studiously omits the details of his entry. While the officer was inside the house, the Harvard officer also entered. If Dr. Gates is busy talking to the first officer, who let the second one in the house?
The police were inside his house, Jay. How’d they get there? If they entered without his invitation or permission, I’d say Dr. Gates was not “secure in his person, house, papers, and effects.”
Are you being stupid on purpose? They had not yet determined that Mr. Gates was legally allowed to be there.
Your attempts to try and pin some kind of civil rights violations on the cops in this case is lame dude. Give it up already.
I should clarify that my last comment was in the context of the cops entering Mr. Gates home. I have to do that so Quaker realizes I wasn’t talking about the ENTIRE incident, just that one aspect.
There always more than one side to a story and we may never know exactly what happened. But, someone getting arrested for trying to enter his own home??? It’s not right. And it makes me sad to think how he must have been feeling as all this was happening.
Your attempts to try and pin some kind of civil rights violations on the cops in this case is lame dude. Give it up already.
Jay, do you spend this much time in real life telling other people what to do?
Dr. Gates was in his own house. The police came to the door and asked him to step outside. He declined. The officer’s report neglects to describe the sequence of events that follows until the two men are in the kitchen.
Why did the officer–with his amazing attention to detail–forget to put this in his report? Please take a guess, Jay.
SDM: So let me get this right. A person is seen trying to break into a house and when the cops arrive refuses to identify himself. And that makes the cops racist.
jrfunkenstein: Let me see how you got this utterly wrong; a person is seen by someone else, likely a White woman, and because he’s a Black man in an upscale neighborhood, he is PRESUMED to be breaking into the home he actually LIVES IN, …
OK, let’s pause right there for a moment and notice how your presumption (that the woman is white) is one we should just accept while the other presumption (that someone seen prying open a door is breaking into the house) is one we shouldn’t make. Is your bias showing much?
And the presumption wasn’t that he was breaking into the home he “actually lives in”. The presumption (and, again, it is a reasonable one since people don’t normally try to pry open the door to their own homes) was that the men did not live in the house.
Actually, neither side says the officer did anything like charge into the house, gun drawn, having already concluded that the men were thieves. By asking for identification it was clear he was allowing that as a distinct possibility, but was not presuming it was so. He asked for identification so he could determine which way was the actual case.
Let’s put the race aspect aside for a moment. Two men are seen prying open the door to a house. Is it unreasonable to call the police?
The police officer arrives and finds the men inside the house. Is it unreasonable for him to ask for identification? Or should the rule be “If you find someone inside the house, you should just assume they live there and just leave.”? That would surely be great news to burglars everywhere.
Read the link from the Boston Globe; the ‘admittedly very few’ facts don’t wash with your interpretation at all.
I did. And if all you’re going by (assuming you read the article) is paragraphs like “Friends of Gates said he was already in his home when police arrived. He showed his driver’s license and Harvard identification card, but was handcuffed and taken into police custody for several hours last Thursday, they said.” then clearly your ability to understand what you read is impaired. There was a significant amount that happened between his showing his card and his getting handcuffed.
jrfunkenstein: So according to numerous cops and the bitch that called them, plus her equally nervous neighbors who had no idea this criminal Professor who happens to be Black LIVED in their community, were all witnesses to the disorderly conduct of someone being arrested for being inside his own home?
Can’t imagine anyone having a problem with the veracity of their testimony.
I’d certainly have a problem with the veracity of yours.
You don’t want people assuming black men are criminals, but you have no problem assuming someone who reports a possible crime in progress is a “bitch”.
Despite numerous reports describing the events you continue to disregard the facts and insist he was “arrested for being inside his home”.
I, again, am willing to allow that the police may have acted in appropriately if more information comes to light that clarifies how Gates was actually approached. You, on the other hand, are ignoring facts and making up things (you know what was in the neighbor’s heads?) so that you can be righteously indignant over the treatment of a black man.
“I can’t be a racist because I’m black.” Right?
jrfunkenstein: From the report:
‘Police arrived at Gates’s Ware Street home near Harvard Square at 12:44 p.m. to question him. Gates, director of the W.E.B. Du Bois Institute for African and African American Research at Harvard, had trouble unlocking his door after it became jammed.’
UNLOCKING his door, not ‘prying’ his way in.
And if you bother reading the article past the second paragraph you’d see he wasn’t arrested for unlocking his door:
And in the actual police report:
WEDGING HIS SHOULDER, not ‘unlocking’ the door.
Peace, Love and Equality for All: But, someone getting arrested for trying to enter his own home??? It’s not right.
It’s your statement that is not right. He didn’t get arrested for trying to enter his own home.
Quaker in a B: Why did the officer–with his amazing attention to detail–forget to put this in his report? Please take a guess, Jay.
Yes, by all means. Let’s engage in more speculation.
But why don’t you go first, Q? You seem to suggest there was some key sequence of events the office deliberately left out. Why not tell us what you think happened?
Jay, do you spend this much time in real life telling other people what to do?
Most often my children, who like you, seem to want to debate niggling details of an issue until they’re blue in the face despite it being pointless.
The officer’s report neglects to describe the sequence of events that follows until the two men are in the kitchen.
Why did the officer–with his amazing attention to detail–forget to put this in his report? Please take a guess, Jay.
Uh, perhaps because it was not pertinent to the entire incident.
Uh, perhaps because it was not pertinent to the entire incident.
I see. Climbing the front steps is “pertinent.” Entering the premises is not.
Good to know.
Yes, by all means. Let’s engage in more speculation.
But why don’t you go first, Q? You seem to suggest there was some key sequence of events the office deliberately left out. Why not tell us what you think happened?
Okey dokey.
The officer asked Dr. Gates to step out of the house. Dr. Gates declined. The officer entered the house without inivitation or permission. If the officer had received invitation or permission, I just bet that fact would be part of his report.
Instead, the officer who was standing on the porch suddenly appears in the kitchen in the narrative of his reports. In addition, a second officer arrives–while the first officer is in the kitchen–and admits himself to the house as well.
Peaceable as I may be, anybody who enters my house without persmission gets yelled at.
Most often my children, who like you, seem to want to debate niggling details of an issue
Also good to know:
Behavior of the professor = pertinent
Behavior of the police officer = niggling detail
SDM: Yes, by all means. Let’s engage in more speculation.
Quaker in a B: Okey dokey.
And there lies some of the problem. Folks too willing to speculate and then defend that speculation as if it were fact.
The officer entered the house without inivitation or permission.
How do you know?
If the officer had received invitation or permission, I just bet that fact would be part of his report.
Yes, but the cop being in Mr. Gates home didn’t seem to be an issue. The only one that is making an issue out of it is you. You’re laughably trying to concoct some kind of civil rights violation here because the officer didn’t write in the report how he wound up in the house. We know he was in there. He didn’t try to hide that fact, so I am still not sure what your gripe is.
Peaceable as I may be, anybody who enters my house without persmission gets yelled at.
Yeah, except there’s nothing to suggest that says Gates was yelling at the cops because they were inside the house without his permission. Again, nothing pertinent here.
niggling detail
“niggling” OMG! Racism!!
And there lies some of the problem. Folks too willing to speculate and then defend that speculation as if it were fact.
I was invited to speculate. And I did. I speculated on the reason for the officer’s omission. I did not speculate on the existence of the omission.
And it’s a little late for you to get on your high horse about “folks willing to speculate,” Sean. Roll back up this thread and review your own work.
How do you know?
Don’t. I’m engaging in speculation just as Sean suggested. Man, you do have a short little attention span, don’t you?
Yes, but the cop being in Mr. Gates home didn’t seem to be an issue.
Now who’s speculating? You don’t know whether it was an issue or not. Oh wait. The cop didn’t put it in his report, so it didn’t happen.
Any more orders, cap’n?
niggling detail
“niggling” OMG! Racism!!
If you’re actually trying to appear ridiculous, congratulations.
If you’re actually trying to appear ridiculous, congratulations.
No. Parody of finding racism in everything.
You would think that in this age of Rodney King and videocam/security cam ‘oversight’, law enforcement policy/procedures would be in place to avoid an escalation of events like this during ‘routine’ day-to-day operations, if for no other reason than to cover their butts. I don’t know all the facts but I would ‘speculate’ that this is a typical case of police operating with that sense of ‘do what we damn well please’ and unexpectedly involving a high-profile, affluent citizen.
Just so no one is confused, this crap happens ALL THE TIME (although arrests are just a part, usually the citizen also gets a beatdown and an altered record of events to take to court…this is what Chapelle was joking about…we know all too well what happens). This professor probably did overreact during the situation, probably incensed that that he STILL can’t get an equitable modicum of respect or civility from those hired to protect and serve, in large part due to his skin tone
I find it interesting that conservative circles always seem to look for a way to mitigate police culpability, even when the circumstances are blatantly clear. Anybody remember that incident at the convenience store gas pump where the cop took a guys apparent ‘defiant behavior’ as criminal and proceeded to beat his ass. (I think the guy was mildly retarded or hearing/speech impaired). Even with video record of the incident, Hannity, O’reilly, and crew were all chiming about ‘getting all the facts before assigning blame,’ but no mention that the beatdown was totally excessive (hell, even if he had been covered in crack)
I don’t think that guy ever did get any justice, or accountability from police management. Just another minority trouble maker that got what he deserved…….
I my opinion Mr.Gates should take this situation seriously because this is not acceptable, we all know what it’s like to be in a situation of such at some point and time. Really do anyone believe that a man at this age with a walking stick was breaking and entering? He is a black american living in too good of a area for his own good. I think that the president should not have retracted his statement, the police is now covering his ass. Not everything in a police report is what happen hay they cover each other butts.
[...] cut us down to just a few worthless channels), but I’m still surprised that since the Henry Louis Gates, Jr. story broke, I haven’t heard a single person mention the movie Amos and [...]
WHEN will it be”fair” B.S how much more does the WHITE man have to bennd over HUH???